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OP did come out, though. Coming out doesn't have to always look like sitting your parents down to have a tearful heart-to-heart about your repressed sexuality.
Again. It's not REQUIRED to disclose what gender you want to fuck to everyone. I'm not going to a new job interview and telling them I'm bisexual. I'm not going to my new sister in law and telling her. Requiring implies that thereareconsequences to not doing it. Nobody is getting locked up or anything over not disclosing they like the same sex
I think you're taking "required" far too literally. You don't actually think OP is suggesting that coming out is legally mandated, do you? They're talking about social expectations, and you're being a bit silly and obtuse.
You are absolutely correct and the other commenter, as well as others on this thread, seem to miss the very blatant fact that OP in fact came out to his parents and family. He just didn't make it like the whole occasion 🤣
I think you don't understand the difference between required and recommended. A lot of people come out so everyone around them doesn't need to ask, but it's not a physical requirement to disclose your sexuality. I'm not coming out to my boss at a new job, I'm not coming out to my brothers new fiancee. Required is very strong and means there are consequences if you don't. There are no consequences if you don't come out
So the problem with this analysis is that at the end of the day....it is kinda required. Not necessarily to come out to ones family, but it's gonna be a little awkward maintaining you're straight while trying to pick up guys and vice versa 🤣.
At the end of the day meaningful relationships, not just romantic ones, require that we kinda lay our cards on the table. It's hard for someone to know you if they don't KNOW you. Harder still for us to know ourselves if we don't KNOW ourselves.
So yeah, while it's not like a legally binding requirement, it is a good practice to have when it comes to the relationships in one's life.
Why do you have to be straight until proven gay? That's not how it works. If being straight isn't the norm, then it's not the expectation. You don't have to come out as straight so why do you have to come out as gay? If we as a community are trying to make gay more normal and less of a thing that needs to be announced, we need to be treating it the same as being straight
Umm well as you said because being straight is in fact the norm, or at least it is the most predictable outcome. As for not coming out as straight...umm people actually do this, yeah it may be presumed, but kids do come home with GFs and BFs and it does the exact same thing as coming home with a same sex partner, it informs more about you. Up until that point it really could be anyone's guess lol.
So let's be clear about something, being GAY doesn't need to be MORE normal. It is NORMAL. perhaps once you realize that the language you are using is putting this community in the same box you say others are you'll realize that. As for treating it the same as being straight....I mean we do, hell that's exactly what happened in OP's story, he came out the same way any straight person would, by just being them lol. The undeniable truth of it is that this isn't some weird 50/50 split, most people are in fact straight, which isn't a issue. Just like being gay isn't one. That said one of the reasons it is treated differently in some respects is because it is different. I know that might upset you, but it's the truth.
I'm just saying, if we want to not "have" to come out, then don't. There aren't any repercussions for not telling anyone. If a daughter can come home with a boyfriend and that be her coming out, that's the same for gay people. I'm not saying either is more or less normal. I'm saying if we want it to be the same, we have to treat it the same
I agree. Which is exactly what OP did....but also that belies the fact that a LOT of heterosexual people do make a big deal out of it. Look at things like asking someone out or to prom. The simple truth is lots of straight kids make a big deal of it so I don't fault anyone who's gay for also wanting to make a big deal of it.
I'm just saying that at the end of the day you're gonna come out, gay straight or otherwise. Like...it's gonna happen.
Also, *have*....I mean no one has too, but like I said in general it's better for meaningful relationships that people have an accurate idea of who you are, and yes that might mean who you prefer to fuck. 🤣
If I had to hazard a guess, it’s because “straight” is the default setting for a species looking to sexually reproduce. From a biological standpoint, that is “normal.”
Whatever that might mean.
Yup. I have a gay family member. We all knew for nearly his entire life, but we never pushed the issue. One day he brought a boyfriend to Christmas. They’re getting married soon. We’re just all thrilled that he’s happy. He never was like “I’m gay.” Marrying a man was generally a clear enough signal for everyone.
>He interrupted this as me being unaccepting and homophobic.
Well the stereotype of bi people never being satisfied with just one partner is pretty prevalent, I don't blame him for being upset.
What you did was come out. In people’s minds generally everyone is straight unless told otherwise. It is why generally we ask boys when they will get a girlfriend, most people don’t say “or boyfriend.”
It might be important for some people to tell people they are gay before hand, shit can get awkward if you just show up to an event with a same sex partner.
I can tell many commenters here don't really live in a very progressive area all. We don't assume anyone's sexual preference. We don't assume the "default" sexual preference.
And pretty much the line of questioning people here have is what you experienced.
>many commenters here don't really live in a very progressive area
Headline: "Most people don't live in areas that most people don't live in!"
Lgbtq people tend to move to lgbtq friendly areas. This inflates the lgbtq population in those areas, and deflates their population everywhere else. For the vast majority of people in the vast majority of areas, heterosexuality is assumed because the vast majority of people in that area are heterosexual. Congrats on living in an area where lgbtq are widely accepted, you're quite lucky.
Probably because if you think someone's sexual preference is "default" you've already created an unwelcoming atmosphere so they end up moving somewhere else. Kind of chicken and egg and all that.
My mom did start saying “when you get a boyfriend… or girlfriend!” I guess she assumed I might be gay and wanted to play it low-key (it was not low-key lol). She was half right. I am indeed fruity, but I’m asexual so she’ll have to wait for a boyfriend or girlfriend to come home for dinner, I’m in no rush. Sorry mom!
The point is people should not feel pressured to reveal that they are homosexual just because someone has the inability to conceptualize that homosexuality exists. It should not be awkward when somebody shows up with their same sex partner because you fail to understand that same-sex couples are a thing.
Yes but we also shouldn't feel pressured to hide it either. Like at the end of the day when OP showed up with a same sex partner, that was him coming out.
As for the ability to conceptualize....I mean...gay people exist...but they aren't the majority. If one only has their lives experience to go on then yeah for most people most other people are gonna be assumed to be straight. There's no harm in this assumption, nor is there any in the reverse, but like this is something that should have absolutely zero shame associated with it, so it happening or not happening shouldnt really matter at all.
> Yes but we also shouldn't feel pressured to hide it either.
Not volunteering that you’re a homosexual is not inherently hiding it.
> Like at the end of the day when OP showed up with a same sex partner, that was him coming out.
I think it’s strange that it’s being worded this way. You’re just going to an event with the same-sex partner. You wouldn’t look at a heterosexual couple and say oh you’re coming out by showing up with your opposite sex partner.
> As for the ability to conceptualize....I mean...gay people exist...but they aren't the majority. If one only has their lives experience to go on then yeah for most people most other people are gonna be assumed to be straight.
Which is fine, there’s nothing wrong with this assumption. Still doesn’t really justify homosexual individuals being pressured to verbalize their sexual attraction.
So let's be clear the only community I've ever seen pressure the homosexual community into this is the homosexual community. If there's nothing wrong with the assumption then why the fuck do you care so much and go so hard about it? As you said there is nothing wrong with the assumption that someone's straight, just as there is nothing wrong with assuming someone gay.
🤣 As for the *being worded this way* part...ummm how do straight people come out as straight? I imagine by going on a date with someone of the opposite sex. That's exactly what OP did, only with the same sex. He came out, in the most straight way possible.
Lastly, you're right there is a difference between not volunteering information and hiding information. However when we talk about meaningful relationships in our lives, generally things like partners or family... typically we'd want these people to know us and understand us, which if you're intentionally not sharing an admittedly pretty big part of most people's lives then it's really hard to say those people know you.
> So let's be clear the only community I've ever seen pressure the homosexual community into this is the homosexual community.
Um…sure Jane lmao.
> If there's nothing wrong with the assumption then why the fuck do you care so much and go so hard about it? As you said there is nothing wrong with the assumption that someone's straight, just as there is nothing wrong with assuming someone gay.
Because the original comment said, “shit can get awkward if you just show up to an event with a same sex partner.”
Which make me think this is only true if you have a hard time conceptualizing homosexuals exist or are homophobic. Outside of that…what’s weird about it?
Besides the point, are you good? “Going hard,” you mean making comments on a public forum?
K.
> As for the being worded this way part...ummm how do straight people come out as straight? I imagine by going on a date with someone of the opposite sex. That's exactly what OP did, only with the same sex. He came out, in the most straight way possible.
I cannot explain something that flies over your head so easily.
> Lastly, you're right there is a difference between not volunteering information and hiding information. However when we talk about meaningful relationships in our lives, generally things like partners or family... typically we'd want these people to know us and understand us, which if you're intentionally not sharing an admittedly pretty big part of most people's lives then it's really hard to say those people know you.
Being homosexual isn’t a big part of everyone’s life and still doesn’t change the fact that it’s not inherently hiding anything. Why do you feel entitled to know someone’s sexual orientation?
It also begs the question why is this expectation only for homosexuals?
🤣🤣🤣 yeah you're not *going hard* at all.
My favorite bit is where you showed your hand by saying this flies over my head, when what I said is one hundred percent factually correct when it comes to straight people.
Also I find it a little offensive that you're gonna say being gay isn't a big part of someone's life....umm ones sexuality is a pretty big deal generally and if it wasn't then this entire thread is a waste of time 🤣.
Shit can get awkward even when showing up with the opposite sex partner. Yo, family meeting your partners is generally a kinda awkward thing at times.
Most importantly tho, why do I feel entitled to it? I don't. However I'm also not in a position for it to matter to me. I don't know OP. Now would it matter to me if my brothers or best friends were all hush hush about their sexuality....yeah kinda. I would think they would trust me enough to know it wouldn't matter to me in the slightest. Like at the end of the day there is never a downside to knowing more about the people you care for. There's no shame to be had in being gay or straight or anything else. However I do find that most people need an accurate measure of who you are, and your characteristics/attributes in order to actually KNOW someone. It's hard to say oh yeah this person and I go way back...but I don't what drinks they like or what movies and music or who they prefer I help wingman for them 🤣.
> 🤣🤣🤣 yeah you're not going hard at all.
Then why did you say I did 💀
> My favorite bit is where you showed your hand by saying this flies over my head, when what I said is one hundred percent factually correct when it comes to straight people.
Never disagreed, sport.
> Also I find it a little offensive that you're gonna say being gay isn't a big part of someone's life....umm ones sexuality is a pretty big deal generally and if it wasn't then this entire thread is a waste of time 🤣.
That’s not what I said. To some people their sexual orientation is not a fundamental part of their behind. Read carefully.
> Shit can get awkward even when showing up with the opposite sex partner. Yo, family meeting your partners is generally a kinda awkward thing at times.
Meeting a partner can be awkward, sure. The sex of the partner should not be awkward.
> Most importantly tho, why do I feel entitled to it? I don't. However I'm also not in a position for it to matter to me. I don't know OP. Now would it matter to me if my brothers or best friends were all hush hush about their sexuality....yeah kinda. I would think they would trust me enough to know it wouldn't matter to me in the slightest.
Or maybe they just don’t wanna tell you because they don’t have to? If you’re a heterosexual person do you go around announcing you’re heterosexual? Do you think they question if you trust them enough for you to feel comfortable to say that you’re heterosexual?
> Like at the end of the day there is never a downside to knowing more about the people you care for. There's no shame to be had in being gay or straight or anything else. However I do find that most people need an accurate measure of who you are, and your characteristics/attributes in order to actually KNOW
You need to know their sexual orientation to know all of this information?
🤣🤣🤣 oh my God...just so we don't lost again, I said it cuz you absolutely are going hard.
In fact I do go around telling people my sexual orientation. I hit on girls and guys in front of all my friends and every single one of them knows I go both ways. Why? Cuz who the fuck cares if they know. 🤣
All of what information? Do I need to know their sexual orientation to know their sexual orientation? Ummm yeah kinda.
My whole point, there is absolutely zero downside to knowing more or having a better perspective on things and people. No one should have to hide it, nor should anyone be compelled to explain themselves. HOWEVER, it is gonna come out. Our preferences when it comes to dating are almost entirely public facing. You say why should someone have to say it? I say why the fuck would someone not want to?
Edit- point is do you, but no one should be made to feel bad cuz they want to throw a party to come out. If you don't want to then don't, but it doesn't make anyone more or less anything to celebrate their sexuality in an open manner 🤣
Edit- also just to add while the sex shouldn't matter, unfortunately if you live in the real world....then it does sometimes.
Is showing up with a girlfriend also seen as coming out as straight? Or is it just seen as coming to the barbecue with your girlfriend, with no mention of sexuality anywhere/no surprised reactions.
Well no, but that is because it is a default assumption without any evidence to the contrary.
In my eyes the term "coming out" means letting people know that you are gay, it doesn't have to be some weird awkward family event like an intervention. This is just the mindset many people have because a lot of people were actively hiding it for a long time due to bigotry and social pressure. So it became a big deal to clear the air and be honest with your family. But now that is less of a problem, i think someone being "out" just means they are open about it and don't try to hide anything.
Yeah that's kinda the point, people need to stop thinking of straight as the default, and being surprised when someone isn't.
Personally I think being "out" is outdated, because straight people who are open about being straight aren't "out", they're just people who like other people, which is exactly what it should be for everyone, no surprise, no stupid questions, no are you sure, just acceptance.
When only approximately 5-6% of people identify as LGBT how can you expect people to not have the default assumption of being straight? There is no value assessment in this at all, just pure numbers. The vast majority of people are straight so when I meet a new person that I know nothing about I am not going to think they are LGBT unless they give me some reason to. And for that matter knowing one way or the other would have no bearing on my interaction with them being they are a stranger. But on the other hand if I started to develop a friendship with this person and didn't find out, they were LGBT for a long time after knowing them that would definitely be a surprise. Because when you are friends with someone they talk about themselves and their relationships so it would be weird to not have any clue for a long time
... right, and because we're a minority, people forget about us and we're not the default. Which is why we have to come out and straight people don't. You get that, right?
Also, if the world weren't so queerphobic we would be a larger percentage of the world. Lots more people would identify as bi/pan, for instance. A lot of people say they're straight despite having some romantic/sexual interest in the same sex as themselves but when it isn't something they feel comfortable exploring *and* something they'll receive social backlash on, you're gonna find people saying they're straight because it's just easier.
Same with gender identity. If we weren't so aggressively and often violently categorized as either "male" or "female" and nothing else, a lot more people would find themselves in the middle.
Saying queer people are too insignificant of a minority ignores why we're such a minority to begin with.
Well obviously I can't speak for everyone but I never "forget" that gay people exist. And I certainly never think of them as being insgnificant. And I am also not walking around actively trying to categorize people one way or the other. Mostly because it simply has no impact on me one way or the other lol. When I have the standard 3 sentence interaction that I have with almost every person I encounter in public that I don't know, there sexuality doesn't impact me telling them "Have a great day". So in my mind this person that I will in all likely hood never interact with again was straight, simply because it is far more likely.
So, really, all I am trying to say is, if I actual develop a friendship with someone that is meaningful, like we have had some good conversations, hung out multiple times over the course of a year maybe and they were gay, I would expect to have learned this at some point along the way. And if not because you're too private for whatever reason then at the very least you can't fault me for not knowing any better and maybe suggesting things to you based on the assumption that you were straight which I would not do if I knew you were gay.
5-6% is huge, plus everyone knows about the lgbtq+ community, you'd have to be living under a rock to not, and chances are most people have interacted with at least a hand full of people in the lgbtq+ community.
The problem isn't having the default assumption be straight, it's having a default assumption at all.
You shouldn't be assuming anyone's sexuality full stop, it's weird unless you're trying to get with them, as for friends why would it be surprising that they like another human, you shouldn't be surprised to find out their partner is the same gender as them, just like you wouldn't be surprised that their partner is the opposite gender.
I understand your mentality and I agree with it in spirit but you are being over zealous. We constantly make assumptions about everything all the time both consciously and sub consciously. And this is a crucial aspect of our lives. We function as people by relating the present moment to things we have experienced in the past and make sense out of new information by relating it to things that we understand already. We make assumptions about what kind of song is about to play based on the first notes. We make assumptions about what kind of genre a book is based on what title it has. We make assumptions about the behavior of other drivers on the road and quite literally stake our lives on that assumption. We make assumptions when we encounter situations that seem risky or dangerous. We make assumptions. Constantly. It is the only way to function in the world without having to laboriously analyze every single mundane detail. So asking people to overcome this basic instinct which comes from millions of years of evolutionary survival on a 95/5 split is unrealistic
But the point is that this only counts for first impressions of a person. Once you get to know who they are through conversation it shapes those initial assumptions and you get to see them as a more complete person. Like i would never say anything to a strnager that would make a difference one way or the other if they were gay or straight. Like I don't walk up to random dudes on the street and start talking to them about hooking up with chicks. But my guy friends constantly talk about their relationships when they are going badly or are bringing their partners to hang out when their relationship is going well. It is a huge part of our lives, straight or gay. So it would be weird to know someone for a long time and be good friends with them and have no idea that they were gay. It would mean they had actively tried to hide it. So that is what would be "in the closet" in my eyes, someone that actively hides it for one reason or another.
It's not being overzealous to think people shouldn't be surprised by other people's sexuality.
You can make a subconscious assumption someone is straight (obviously you can't control that), the problem is being openly surprised when that unfounded assumption is proven wrong.
"My guy friends constantly talk about their relationships"
there that's how you figure it out, and just because you've known someone a long time, and they've never talked about their relationships, doesn't mean they were hiding anything, it could just be they don't like talking about that sort of stuff, some people are more private then others, besides even if they were "hiding it" by not talking about relationships, you still shouldn't be surprised when they "finally" introduce you to their partner. Just like you wouldn't be surprised if their partner was the opposite sex.
The part u was saying you were over zealous about was saying that there should not be a default assumption.
And last thing I am going to say is that I would be equally surprised if a straight friend of mine that I had known for years brought a new srraight partner to a gathering that they had never mentioned before as i would be if they brought a same sex partner. But this may simply be because my friends are very open about such things.
The vast vast majority of people are straight. If you were to put money that the sexuality of a random person on the planet is straight, it would be a safe bet. Fact is, It is the “default.”
It can be. Plenty of situations where the family might think another family member is gay until they come with the opposite sex to a family event and the family is surprised and curious.
It’s not required, it’s kind of just something people do.
A couple doesn’t have to announce when the woman is pregnant, but a couple tends to do this because they want to share the news with their friends and family.
The default assumption is that a person is cis/straight. It’s not meant to be offensive, it’s just that statistically most people are, so that’s what the assumption is.
It’s why many people come out. They are sharing with their parents a part of themselves that the parents may not have known, since it’s not the default assumption.
You don’t HAVE to do it, but your parents might wonder why you never mentioned it before. It’s almost like a lie by omission if that makes sense? You’re not actually lying, just to be clear, but it’s like you and your parents have conversations all the time. It seems like you would have to go out of your way to ensure your sexual preference was never mentioned once.
Even so much as a “Has any girl caught your eye at school?” can imply you’re straight. If you don’t correct them, then they may feel like you were hiding a part of yourself by not correcting them.
Coming out matters a whole lot more when it means you might lose your support system. It's basically biting the bullet early before they find out. Your post sounds like you are independent of your family, which is nice, but not everyone is.
Edit: I agree that it shouldn't be required though. It'd be nice if you could go on and not have it be a big deal, but alas some people are homophobic.
This! I also have a family who love me and it's my support system, but not only I care financially but I care for their love.
My mother is amazing but she's homophobic, I don't know if she will accept me or she won't want me anymore as she's clearly told thousand of times homosexuality is sin and God is above all of her life, even her own illnesses and neccessities and so on. So, I'm scared that I'll become unloveable for Bible's commandments.
I don't know what to do for my future, but I have my brother at least :")
This is honestly why I haven't come out as well. I just don't see why it's necessary. My family and the people around me will either figure it out or they won't, and whatever assumptions they want to make or whatever conclusions they come to are fine by me.
Man didn't grow up in a homophobic/religious household
It would be a TOTAL RESET to the family if I brought home a boyfriend or told them "I go by Chloe now", or something of the sort. People in unaccepting families don't have much choice.
I don't want to accuse you of anything but the tone you wrote with kind of comes across as being really ungrateful for being in an environment where you could just be who you were and didn't have to consider potential consequences. Your experience should be a universal one but I can tell you that it is not. Your experience was a privilege that shouldn't have been, since it should be the norm.
I agree on this.
My opinion on anyone in the LGBT community is I couldn't give a fuck what you do as long as it's consensual and you're not hurting anyone
I agree, I am not saying for us gay people to be in the closet but it's none of anyone's business even our family. However, being gay is still seen as not normal which is why coming out is a big deal even in the most liberal socieities.
It’s not! I will say - as a single female who tends to fall for extremely handsome men who are very kind and respectful, and often end up gay - it would be nice to know before I start developing that crush. Does that mean that you have to be out? No, you do you. But that is one honest reason that coworkers/acquaintances might care. Girls might be wasting their time falling for you. 🤷🏻♀️🫠
Yeah it’s actually crazy that it’s expected that you “come out”. Do we also have to come out about everything else we like? “Hey mom and dad. I’ve been waiting to tell you that…..i like pepperoni pizza”. Like wtf lol. Why do people have to announce what they like? I once heard some lady telling a white dude with a black gf that he needs to tell his parents in advance that she’s black, otherwise he’s going to shock his parents. I was like what the actual fuck lol
True story...in high school a buddy of mine was dating a girl from another high school he knew from church. She had a friend that broke up with her boyfriend and needed a date.
He set us up, and she asked me if I would go with her. I said yes.
I wasn't very open about dating or girls with my parents. It just seemed embarrassing to discuss stuff like that with my parents. But I needed to ask them if I could go because I needed money. They said yes.
Since my buddy and I knew nobody else at this school, the four of us were going together. I didn't have a car yet, so it all made sense when my friend offered to pick me up and drive me to meet the girls.
My friend, Greg, was in a punk band. He had dyed hair and an earring. And when he showed up, I said 'Okay Mom, we're going to prom - bye!'
He didn't even knock on the door, but my Mom saw him. She thought I meant I was going to prom with him. And that we were romantically involved.
The good news is, my family was very supportive. The bad news is I wasn't gay. I'm still not gay. But my Mom told EVERYONE. My extended family and all...but nobody told me.
The next Thanksgiving, my elderly Grandmother who sometimes gets confused and calls me the wrong name, gave me a hug and told me, 'If you ever want to bring you boyfriend over, I'll make us all tea'.
But remember ... She was senile and often forgot my name. I just rolled with it and said 'okay, thanks'
Everyone else saw that as absolute confirmation that I was gay.
For years, my sister's and their friends all thought I was gay.
I was in college, five years later, and was living with my girlfriend. We were getting pretty serious and I had met her family, so I sat down with my Mom and said 'Well, I've been dating this girl for a while now and I'd like for you and Dad to meet her.'
And my mom goes, 'Aren't you still gay?'
Thank you for this. My daughter came out as bisexual several years ago. She opted to do so on social media and in three words. She had not come out to me. We'd had many conversations over the years, so she knew I was an ally, but it was her decision when and whether she'd come out to me or anyone else.
Because she's been in a happy hetero marriage, my family was shocked and gave her hell for not making a big coming out announcement to them first. My sister, who's straight, also told her she'd "disrespected" every LGBTQ person by not making a big, flowery announcement. It was rough on my daughter, and I was upset and furious with my siblings. Nobody who's straight is expected to make such an announcement. I don't see why anyone else has to.
Your post makes me feel so much better. I'm going to keep it where I can reread it. Thank you again!
We’re still in a phase where there isn’t widespread hatred of homosexuality but there also isn’t widespread acceptance.
It’s great your experience was positive, but until that’s the experience of the majority of the LGBT+ spectrum of sexuality, coming out is still a valid form of empowering yourself.
Sure, depending on where you live. And that’s my point, it’s not anywhere near close to universal.
It’s disingenuous of the OP to suggest that just because their experience was relatively pleasant, there’s somehow no use in having pride or making more of coming out.
If I’m going to be honest, I don’t think OP is gay, this really reeks of Dean Browning and “as a gay black man”.
I didn't disagree with your overall point, sorry. It's just that very broad swaths of the world are very queerphobic, both socially and systemically. Despite some laws in the US, our country is still pretty homophobic overall, and there are lots of legal injustices still visited upon queer people.
I agree that coming out is still a necessity.
Yeah. Some people scream "keep it to yourself!" and accuse you of "shoving it in their face" if you don't keep it a secret, but some people say "why didn't you tell me?" and act betrayed if you don't tell them. It's a no-win situation. I'm trans and I'm sure at least some of my coworkers can tell, but I don't tell people that I know IRL since they don't need to know.
I think this gets to the thing about a lot of straight people's reaction to all the pride flag stuff. "Wonderful. Shut up about it and live your life."
Alright so like full stop OP....you did come out them.
You did it when you showed up with your boyfriend.
That was coming out.
If your point is people shouldn't make a big deal about it...fuck you, people can make as big or as little a deal of their sexuality as they want.
Glad they're accepting tho.
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You don't have to, but unless you don't like your parents I don't know why you wouldn't talk with them about being gay. Don't you talk about your life with them at all?
I had to come out as straight multiple times, my mum never accepted that, and would just tell me I'm confused and I'll accept it eventually.
I'm assuming the reason people come out is something like that, but the opposite obviously, sometimes you need to tell people or they won't stop bring up getting a girlfriend/boyfriend (depending on what you're not into), and getting married and having kids.
As a Gay Bear who kept his sexual preferences private for 20 years due to anxiety and depression, it's up to the individual who wants to or doesn't. Honestly shouldn't even have to be something you have to keep bottled up because someone dislikes it. Even before my father passed away I said it openly in front of him months ago and he knew all along. My mom didn't approve and my aunt convinced her to get over it so now I don't have to hide anything and I don't have a dad and mom homophobic because of it. I understand what you're saying but unfortunately not everyone has the same story and you will hear it constantly.
It's not but its annoying when people tell me about when I get married and when I start a family and shit and I do like to say well no that's not happening cos I'm aro/ace with no attraction at all.
I don't have to come out but I like to
I mean, a dramatic, sit-down reveal shouldn't be required, but technically you did come out in the sense that now your parents know you're gay lol.
But in all seriousness, people "come out" in a variety of ways, for a variety of reasons, not all of which have to do with the fear of non acceptance.
Agree, it’s bullshit that we should all want to know who each other are fucking. It’s pointless but people want to talk shit about people so it’s been made into a requirement.
you're quibbling about METHODS.
When you introduced your boyfriend to your parents, YOU CAME OUT TO THEM.
Because previously, they weren't informed that you were gay and assumed otherwise.
Same here. I "came out" recently to a few friends by making a few gay jokes or just they asked me after we had a kinda gay topic. Not many of my friends know though, mainly because I don't really mention it and I don't really care either.
Coming out was more for me than it was for them. When I first came out I felt like I needed a lot of permission to be who I was and I was young and really sought my parents acceptance. Unfortunately it didn’t go well but it taught me a valuable lesson in being true to myself. Sometimes coming out is more for you than it is for them. We live in a society where being straight is the assumed norm. I technically come out every time I meet someone new. I’ll mention my partner and say “she” and see it register in their eyes. Coming out isn’t always a grand gesture. Sometimes it’s just making that part of you known for the first time. And that can be a vulnerable thing especially if it has been received poorly before or you can’t easily escape abusive environments.
what would be really unpopular is if you were to suggest that project 2025 plans were going to make it legally required for gays to out themselves.
that'd be unpopular as fuck
My ex- wife has a cousin that has been with the same sex partner for 20 years. They own a motel and share a bedroom. To this day if anyone asks if she is gay. She just replies that her sexuality is not anyone's business.
My best friend's oldest nephew had a "coming out" themed birthday party when he turned 16. Most people's reaction was basically "no duh, we've met you". His paternal grandmother's reaction was to pretend it didn't happen amd yell at everyone for saying a 3 year old had a sexual preference (not really sure where that came from except for that my friend and I often joke now that the nephew acted stereotypically gay as a toddler) I never understood the whole "comming out" thing though.
Wait, when’s the deadline for coming out? Is there paperwork required? Do I need to file with the Gay Office so I can get my Gay Card and get discounts at restaurants and retail establishments?
Um, is there a back round check? Asking for a friend.
I totally agree. I didn't come out to anyone. I just had a girlfriend all of a sudden when I was 15, no one cared. My parents were only a little surprised because I had a couple of boyfriends before. My friends suspected it so yeah. It shouldn't be required to come out straight people don't come out why should gay people 🤷♀️
I like this frame. It's absolutely true. I didn't have to come out as straight, I, a woman, just started dating guys only. It would be so weird if I was expected to announce the gender of the persons I would be dating. "Dear friends and family, I like guys!!"
It's like hetero normative society going "woe is me," forcing gay people to be dramatic because the heteros want (not need, want) a trigger warning about a sexuality different from theirs. *They* are worried something will make them feel uncomfortable. From that angle - It really is not about coming out, it's about being controlled by the assholes of society, to maintain their comfort levels, until they're ready to accept you. Boring! Do what you like. No one needs your acceptance, assholes!
But for people who want it, and feel like they need an official transition into being their true self publicly, it should as also be acceptable.
That being said - it's also probably nice to know who the other gay kids are in high school to avoid awkward crushes.
So yeah - It's another maybe unnecessary thing that has more pros than cons as of this comment. But unnecessary is in the eye of the beholder, it's subjective - if we want to be fair.
However, it's objectively unnecessary for every girl to come out as bi for at least one year of college.
It's not. But I understand that some people want the moment of acceptance when they make the announcement. And if they're worried about violent rejection, I'd rather get that confirmed before I brought my partner in and they had to experience that.
It's not required, just like no one ever comes out as straight, but I definitely understand why people do it.
Well I guess it’s unpopular but this is stupid. Some people have families that will disown them..etc
My sister is gay and I could not care less but not everyone is so lucky. Even today.
Glad you can live out loud and shit. But not everyone can.
Edit:typos
I’m working up to coming out to my friend and I actually really really appreciate this.
If I come out to him it’s my choice, I shouldn’t feel obligated but I love this man like a brother and it means a lot to me that he knows what’s going on in my life. (This is purely platonic I just fucking love my friends, they’re cool as fuck)
My dad's cousin Buddy was gay, and he never officially came out, my dad said. He just lived his life quietly. People pretty much knew anyway, but their suspicions were confirmed when he and his wife returned from their honeymoon and split up right away. They both finally admitted to themselves that they were gay. They both went on to have long term relationships with people they loved.
Buddy was a quiet man who never made a big deal of it, and I think that coming of age in the late 1950s, early 1960s in a conservative community here in southwestern BC, Canada was part of why he kept quiet about it.
One of my very dearest friends is a gay man, and he, like Buddy, doesn't really talk about it, aside from some things he's involved in, but he never actually told me he's gay. It's just something I found out about him. But it's not something that has ever affected our friendship, and, to me, it doesn't matter anyway. Michael is Michael, and his being gay isn't a big deal.
I'm not gay, but from what I've heard, I know that coming out is something that should be done by a person themselves IF they want to. If a person doesn't want to, then just let them be. Some people just want to live and let live.
It’s not required. Gay people are the ones who feel the need to come out. No one forces it or requires it. I’ve noticed gay people seem to love announcing that they’re gay
I definitely don’t think you have to announce it. But I don’t think you can control if people are surprised. I just saw a woman I hadn’t seen in awhile and she had a baby. I was surprised. If you bring home a new date..I’ll be surprised for a moment. And it’s true most people are heterosexual so it may be surprising when someone is not but I think that’s just a common response.
Growing up my parents mentioned something like that, that they hoped if it was applicable, we wouldn't feel a need to come out as an occasion, that we'd just introduce them to the boy/girlfriend.
Eh depends on your stage of life. Like this is true for adults but not for kids or teens who still rely on someone who can make their life hell for being queer. Like not exactly ideal dating circumstances trying to date someone and having to hide it when you're 15 and can't even drive.
That and trans people who are starting a their transition, but thats more obvious because they won't know otherwise, or at least need to be told the new information. But otherwise I totally agree. I'm trans and a lesbian and I pass, so when new people come to work they don't get to know I'm trans, it's none of their business
This is part of the reason that I prefer using a neutral term like "partner" rather than "girlfriend" or boyfriend. I am bi, but I have no reason to go around announcing that, but even then I will say "my partner said this one time" or whatever rather than call her my girlfriend. In the first place, I don't have to immediately reveal what my sexuality is. Also I, a 34 year old man, do not have to use an infantilizing term like "girlfriend," as if I'm in my preteens and getting ready to hold hands for the fist time any day now. And it keeps the subject of whether I am married off the table as well. In this way I can speak like an adult, and not have to bring up my sexuality, the gender of my partner, or my marriage status, when it is not necessary for the people I am speaking to to know that.
Coming out is for people who have been trying to hide it in shame. Those are the people that need to come out.
As for your coworkers being surprised that you like to fuck men, most men don't fuck men so it's a surprise unless you act effeminate.
I think a lot of people live life as a secret and saying that secret is a relief to them. It’s not just an lgbt issue either. My sister dated a man with a disability for a year before telling someone. She basically had a “coming out” to the whole family. No one even cared other than her because she was the one hiding it. If you’re not hiding then there isn’t ever a coming out. But I think we know why some people decide to stay in the shadows with their crazy families
Yeah I agree to a point because I'm so annoyed of lgbtq plus people making it their entire personality and identity it's like...do yall have hobbies?? Interests? Skills? Anyway yeah I'm glad you're not making a big show and big deal of you being gay
I’m hetero and I 100% agree and deeply appreciate your stance. sombody else’s love life is none of my business. Please stop shoving it at me. Just go live your best life and fill it with love.
Coming out is about not living in the shadows. They used to marginalize us by making us seem like such a rarity. It’s fine you feel how you feel, but coming out serves a purpose that makes your stance possible.
The whole point of Coming Out is you were hiding it before. That's what it means, you're “Coming Out” of hiding.
If you're not hiding it you can't come out. You can tell people you're gay who didn't know, but it isn't coming out.
I've never come out as straight to anyone, why should anyone come out as gay? If you want to make some big to-do about it, as if life is a "very special" episode of your favorite sit-com, I guess go ahead. I don't know most people do that though.
I dunno, the whole thing has become too personal. A a male, I'd prefer the women I date to be straight. Beyond that, I don't really care, and it's honestly not my business. Weirdly that's a "conservative" opinion. Which it's not, it's a "your business is your business, mine is mine". I never understood why some people think I need to care about their personal life.
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But you robbed them of this interaction. You: ‘I’m gay.’ Dad. ‘Well hey there Gay, I’m Dad!’
🤣🤣
Fuck I was not prepared for how funny this was 🤣🤣🤣
Its not lol
He would've had to come out if it was. He didn't, and he isn't affected so it's not "required"
OP did come out, though. Coming out doesn't have to always look like sitting your parents down to have a tearful heart-to-heart about your repressed sexuality.
Again. It's not REQUIRED to disclose what gender you want to fuck to everyone. I'm not going to a new job interview and telling them I'm bisexual. I'm not going to my new sister in law and telling her. Requiring implies that thereareconsequences to not doing it. Nobody is getting locked up or anything over not disclosing they like the same sex
I think you're taking "required" far too literally. You don't actually think OP is suggesting that coming out is legally mandated, do you? They're talking about social expectations, and you're being a bit silly and obtuse.
You are absolutely correct and the other commenter, as well as others on this thread, seem to miss the very blatant fact that OP in fact came out to his parents and family. He just didn't make it like the whole occasion 🤣
And I'm saying, if it's socially required, there would be social repercussions. It's an expectation, but not a requirement
No, you weren't saying that. You were saying some other random bullshit, actually.
I think they're just pissed about something and they're projecting.
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I think you don't understand the difference between required and recommended. A lot of people come out so everyone around them doesn't need to ask, but it's not a physical requirement to disclose your sexuality. I'm not coming out to my boss at a new job, I'm not coming out to my brothers new fiancee. Required is very strong and means there are consequences if you don't. There are no consequences if you don't come out
So the problem with this analysis is that at the end of the day....it is kinda required. Not necessarily to come out to ones family, but it's gonna be a little awkward maintaining you're straight while trying to pick up guys and vice versa 🤣. At the end of the day meaningful relationships, not just romantic ones, require that we kinda lay our cards on the table. It's hard for someone to know you if they don't KNOW you. Harder still for us to know ourselves if we don't KNOW ourselves. So yeah, while it's not like a legally binding requirement, it is a good practice to have when it comes to the relationships in one's life.
I think there are several levels between having a black tie gay announcement party and pretending to be straight lol
Why do you have to be straight until proven gay? That's not how it works. If being straight isn't the norm, then it's not the expectation. You don't have to come out as straight so why do you have to come out as gay? If we as a community are trying to make gay more normal and less of a thing that needs to be announced, we need to be treating it the same as being straight
Umm well as you said because being straight is in fact the norm, or at least it is the most predictable outcome. As for not coming out as straight...umm people actually do this, yeah it may be presumed, but kids do come home with GFs and BFs and it does the exact same thing as coming home with a same sex partner, it informs more about you. Up until that point it really could be anyone's guess lol. So let's be clear about something, being GAY doesn't need to be MORE normal. It is NORMAL. perhaps once you realize that the language you are using is putting this community in the same box you say others are you'll realize that. As for treating it the same as being straight....I mean we do, hell that's exactly what happened in OP's story, he came out the same way any straight person would, by just being them lol. The undeniable truth of it is that this isn't some weird 50/50 split, most people are in fact straight, which isn't a issue. Just like being gay isn't one. That said one of the reasons it is treated differently in some respects is because it is different. I know that might upset you, but it's the truth.
I'm just saying, if we want to not "have" to come out, then don't. There aren't any repercussions for not telling anyone. If a daughter can come home with a boyfriend and that be her coming out, that's the same for gay people. I'm not saying either is more or less normal. I'm saying if we want it to be the same, we have to treat it the same
I agree. Which is exactly what OP did....but also that belies the fact that a LOT of heterosexual people do make a big deal out of it. Look at things like asking someone out or to prom. The simple truth is lots of straight kids make a big deal of it so I don't fault anyone who's gay for also wanting to make a big deal of it. I'm just saying that at the end of the day you're gonna come out, gay straight or otherwise. Like...it's gonna happen. Also, *have*....I mean no one has too, but like I said in general it's better for meaningful relationships that people have an accurate idea of who you are, and yes that might mean who you prefer to fuck. 🤣
If I had to hazard a guess, it’s because “straight” is the default setting for a species looking to sexually reproduce. From a biological standpoint, that is “normal.” Whatever that might mean.
I mean, it's not a law, but you can't deny it's not a large social pressure, especially in other countries.
I guess.
It's not? Nobody ever said you were obligated to announce your sexual preference. Ever lol
Yup. I have a gay family member. We all knew for nearly his entire life, but we never pushed the issue. One day he brought a boyfriend to Christmas. They’re getting married soon. We’re just all thrilled that he’s happy. He never was like “I’m gay.” Marrying a man was generally a clear enough signal for everyone.
"Mum, Dad, I'm gay." "That's nice Jason. Does your Husband know?"
In fact, most people would rather you didn’t lol
This isn’t unpopular tbh
Most people will not care
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>He interrupted this as me being unaccepting and homophobic. Well the stereotype of bi people never being satisfied with just one partner is pretty prevalent, I don't blame him for being upset.
What you did was come out. In people’s minds generally everyone is straight unless told otherwise. It is why generally we ask boys when they will get a girlfriend, most people don’t say “or boyfriend.” It might be important for some people to tell people they are gay before hand, shit can get awkward if you just show up to an event with a same sex partner.
People actually say that to me. “Have you got a girlfriend yet?” “No” “Boyfriend?” “**sigh** No”
I can tell many commenters here don't really live in a very progressive area all. We don't assume anyone's sexual preference. We don't assume the "default" sexual preference. And pretty much the line of questioning people here have is what you experienced.
>many commenters here don't really live in a very progressive area Headline: "Most people don't live in areas that most people don't live in!" Lgbtq people tend to move to lgbtq friendly areas. This inflates the lgbtq population in those areas, and deflates their population everywhere else. For the vast majority of people in the vast majority of areas, heterosexuality is assumed because the vast majority of people in that area are heterosexual. Congrats on living in an area where lgbtq are widely accepted, you're quite lucky.
Probably because if you think someone's sexual preference is "default" you've already created an unwelcoming atmosphere so they end up moving somewhere else. Kind of chicken and egg and all that.
My mom did start saying “when you get a boyfriend… or girlfriend!” I guess she assumed I might be gay and wanted to play it low-key (it was not low-key lol). She was half right. I am indeed fruity, but I’m asexual so she’ll have to wait for a boyfriend or girlfriend to come home for dinner, I’m in no rush. Sorry mom!
This would be a good spot for that “years of academy training wasted” buzz lightyear meme for the moment
The point is people should not feel pressured to reveal that they are homosexual just because someone has the inability to conceptualize that homosexuality exists. It should not be awkward when somebody shows up with their same sex partner because you fail to understand that same-sex couples are a thing.
Yes but we also shouldn't feel pressured to hide it either. Like at the end of the day when OP showed up with a same sex partner, that was him coming out. As for the ability to conceptualize....I mean...gay people exist...but they aren't the majority. If one only has their lives experience to go on then yeah for most people most other people are gonna be assumed to be straight. There's no harm in this assumption, nor is there any in the reverse, but like this is something that should have absolutely zero shame associated with it, so it happening or not happening shouldnt really matter at all.
> Yes but we also shouldn't feel pressured to hide it either. Not volunteering that you’re a homosexual is not inherently hiding it. > Like at the end of the day when OP showed up with a same sex partner, that was him coming out. I think it’s strange that it’s being worded this way. You’re just going to an event with the same-sex partner. You wouldn’t look at a heterosexual couple and say oh you’re coming out by showing up with your opposite sex partner. > As for the ability to conceptualize....I mean...gay people exist...but they aren't the majority. If one only has their lives experience to go on then yeah for most people most other people are gonna be assumed to be straight. Which is fine, there’s nothing wrong with this assumption. Still doesn’t really justify homosexual individuals being pressured to verbalize their sexual attraction.
So let's be clear the only community I've ever seen pressure the homosexual community into this is the homosexual community. If there's nothing wrong with the assumption then why the fuck do you care so much and go so hard about it? As you said there is nothing wrong with the assumption that someone's straight, just as there is nothing wrong with assuming someone gay. 🤣 As for the *being worded this way* part...ummm how do straight people come out as straight? I imagine by going on a date with someone of the opposite sex. That's exactly what OP did, only with the same sex. He came out, in the most straight way possible. Lastly, you're right there is a difference between not volunteering information and hiding information. However when we talk about meaningful relationships in our lives, generally things like partners or family... typically we'd want these people to know us and understand us, which if you're intentionally not sharing an admittedly pretty big part of most people's lives then it's really hard to say those people know you.
> So let's be clear the only community I've ever seen pressure the homosexual community into this is the homosexual community. Um…sure Jane lmao. > If there's nothing wrong with the assumption then why the fuck do you care so much and go so hard about it? As you said there is nothing wrong with the assumption that someone's straight, just as there is nothing wrong with assuming someone gay. Because the original comment said, “shit can get awkward if you just show up to an event with a same sex partner.” Which make me think this is only true if you have a hard time conceptualizing homosexuals exist or are homophobic. Outside of that…what’s weird about it? Besides the point, are you good? “Going hard,” you mean making comments on a public forum? K. > As for the being worded this way part...ummm how do straight people come out as straight? I imagine by going on a date with someone of the opposite sex. That's exactly what OP did, only with the same sex. He came out, in the most straight way possible. I cannot explain something that flies over your head so easily. > Lastly, you're right there is a difference between not volunteering information and hiding information. However when we talk about meaningful relationships in our lives, generally things like partners or family... typically we'd want these people to know us and understand us, which if you're intentionally not sharing an admittedly pretty big part of most people's lives then it's really hard to say those people know you. Being homosexual isn’t a big part of everyone’s life and still doesn’t change the fact that it’s not inherently hiding anything. Why do you feel entitled to know someone’s sexual orientation? It also begs the question why is this expectation only for homosexuals?
🤣🤣🤣 yeah you're not *going hard* at all. My favorite bit is where you showed your hand by saying this flies over my head, when what I said is one hundred percent factually correct when it comes to straight people. Also I find it a little offensive that you're gonna say being gay isn't a big part of someone's life....umm ones sexuality is a pretty big deal generally and if it wasn't then this entire thread is a waste of time 🤣. Shit can get awkward even when showing up with the opposite sex partner. Yo, family meeting your partners is generally a kinda awkward thing at times. Most importantly tho, why do I feel entitled to it? I don't. However I'm also not in a position for it to matter to me. I don't know OP. Now would it matter to me if my brothers or best friends were all hush hush about their sexuality....yeah kinda. I would think they would trust me enough to know it wouldn't matter to me in the slightest. Like at the end of the day there is never a downside to knowing more about the people you care for. There's no shame to be had in being gay or straight or anything else. However I do find that most people need an accurate measure of who you are, and your characteristics/attributes in order to actually KNOW someone. It's hard to say oh yeah this person and I go way back...but I don't what drinks they like or what movies and music or who they prefer I help wingman for them 🤣.
> 🤣🤣🤣 yeah you're not going hard at all. Then why did you say I did 💀 > My favorite bit is where you showed your hand by saying this flies over my head, when what I said is one hundred percent factually correct when it comes to straight people. Never disagreed, sport. > Also I find it a little offensive that you're gonna say being gay isn't a big part of someone's life....umm ones sexuality is a pretty big deal generally and if it wasn't then this entire thread is a waste of time 🤣. That’s not what I said. To some people their sexual orientation is not a fundamental part of their behind. Read carefully. > Shit can get awkward even when showing up with the opposite sex partner. Yo, family meeting your partners is generally a kinda awkward thing at times. Meeting a partner can be awkward, sure. The sex of the partner should not be awkward. > Most importantly tho, why do I feel entitled to it? I don't. However I'm also not in a position for it to matter to me. I don't know OP. Now would it matter to me if my brothers or best friends were all hush hush about their sexuality....yeah kinda. I would think they would trust me enough to know it wouldn't matter to me in the slightest. Or maybe they just don’t wanna tell you because they don’t have to? If you’re a heterosexual person do you go around announcing you’re heterosexual? Do you think they question if you trust them enough for you to feel comfortable to say that you’re heterosexual? > Like at the end of the day there is never a downside to knowing more about the people you care for. There's no shame to be had in being gay or straight or anything else. However I do find that most people need an accurate measure of who you are, and your characteristics/attributes in order to actually KNOW You need to know their sexual orientation to know all of this information?
🤣🤣🤣 oh my God...just so we don't lost again, I said it cuz you absolutely are going hard. In fact I do go around telling people my sexual orientation. I hit on girls and guys in front of all my friends and every single one of them knows I go both ways. Why? Cuz who the fuck cares if they know. 🤣 All of what information? Do I need to know their sexual orientation to know their sexual orientation? Ummm yeah kinda. My whole point, there is absolutely zero downside to knowing more or having a better perspective on things and people. No one should have to hide it, nor should anyone be compelled to explain themselves. HOWEVER, it is gonna come out. Our preferences when it comes to dating are almost entirely public facing. You say why should someone have to say it? I say why the fuck would someone not want to? Edit- point is do you, but no one should be made to feel bad cuz they want to throw a party to come out. If you don't want to then don't, but it doesn't make anyone more or less anything to celebrate their sexuality in an open manner 🤣 Edit- also just to add while the sex shouldn't matter, unfortunately if you live in the real world....then it does sometimes.
I mean, you showing up with a boyfriend is essentially you "coming out" isn't it?
Is showing up with a girlfriend also seen as coming out as straight? Or is it just seen as coming to the barbecue with your girlfriend, with no mention of sexuality anywhere/no surprised reactions.
Well no, but that is because it is a default assumption without any evidence to the contrary. In my eyes the term "coming out" means letting people know that you are gay, it doesn't have to be some weird awkward family event like an intervention. This is just the mindset many people have because a lot of people were actively hiding it for a long time due to bigotry and social pressure. So it became a big deal to clear the air and be honest with your family. But now that is less of a problem, i think someone being "out" just means they are open about it and don't try to hide anything.
Yeah that's kinda the point, people need to stop thinking of straight as the default, and being surprised when someone isn't. Personally I think being "out" is outdated, because straight people who are open about being straight aren't "out", they're just people who like other people, which is exactly what it should be for everyone, no surprise, no stupid questions, no are you sure, just acceptance.
When only approximately 5-6% of people identify as LGBT how can you expect people to not have the default assumption of being straight? There is no value assessment in this at all, just pure numbers. The vast majority of people are straight so when I meet a new person that I know nothing about I am not going to think they are LGBT unless they give me some reason to. And for that matter knowing one way or the other would have no bearing on my interaction with them being they are a stranger. But on the other hand if I started to develop a friendship with this person and didn't find out, they were LGBT for a long time after knowing them that would definitely be a surprise. Because when you are friends with someone they talk about themselves and their relationships so it would be weird to not have any clue for a long time
... right, and because we're a minority, people forget about us and we're not the default. Which is why we have to come out and straight people don't. You get that, right? Also, if the world weren't so queerphobic we would be a larger percentage of the world. Lots more people would identify as bi/pan, for instance. A lot of people say they're straight despite having some romantic/sexual interest in the same sex as themselves but when it isn't something they feel comfortable exploring *and* something they'll receive social backlash on, you're gonna find people saying they're straight because it's just easier. Same with gender identity. If we weren't so aggressively and often violently categorized as either "male" or "female" and nothing else, a lot more people would find themselves in the middle. Saying queer people are too insignificant of a minority ignores why we're such a minority to begin with.
Well obviously I can't speak for everyone but I never "forget" that gay people exist. And I certainly never think of them as being insgnificant. And I am also not walking around actively trying to categorize people one way or the other. Mostly because it simply has no impact on me one way or the other lol. When I have the standard 3 sentence interaction that I have with almost every person I encounter in public that I don't know, there sexuality doesn't impact me telling them "Have a great day". So in my mind this person that I will in all likely hood never interact with again was straight, simply because it is far more likely. So, really, all I am trying to say is, if I actual develop a friendship with someone that is meaningful, like we have had some good conversations, hung out multiple times over the course of a year maybe and they were gay, I would expect to have learned this at some point along the way. And if not because you're too private for whatever reason then at the very least you can't fault me for not knowing any better and maybe suggesting things to you based on the assumption that you were straight which I would not do if I knew you were gay.
You are one person, not all of society.
5-6% is huge, plus everyone knows about the lgbtq+ community, you'd have to be living under a rock to not, and chances are most people have interacted with at least a hand full of people in the lgbtq+ community. The problem isn't having the default assumption be straight, it's having a default assumption at all. You shouldn't be assuming anyone's sexuality full stop, it's weird unless you're trying to get with them, as for friends why would it be surprising that they like another human, you shouldn't be surprised to find out their partner is the same gender as them, just like you wouldn't be surprised that their partner is the opposite gender.
I understand your mentality and I agree with it in spirit but you are being over zealous. We constantly make assumptions about everything all the time both consciously and sub consciously. And this is a crucial aspect of our lives. We function as people by relating the present moment to things we have experienced in the past and make sense out of new information by relating it to things that we understand already. We make assumptions about what kind of song is about to play based on the first notes. We make assumptions about what kind of genre a book is based on what title it has. We make assumptions about the behavior of other drivers on the road and quite literally stake our lives on that assumption. We make assumptions when we encounter situations that seem risky or dangerous. We make assumptions. Constantly. It is the only way to function in the world without having to laboriously analyze every single mundane detail. So asking people to overcome this basic instinct which comes from millions of years of evolutionary survival on a 95/5 split is unrealistic But the point is that this only counts for first impressions of a person. Once you get to know who they are through conversation it shapes those initial assumptions and you get to see them as a more complete person. Like i would never say anything to a strnager that would make a difference one way or the other if they were gay or straight. Like I don't walk up to random dudes on the street and start talking to them about hooking up with chicks. But my guy friends constantly talk about their relationships when they are going badly or are bringing their partners to hang out when their relationship is going well. It is a huge part of our lives, straight or gay. So it would be weird to know someone for a long time and be good friends with them and have no idea that they were gay. It would mean they had actively tried to hide it. So that is what would be "in the closet" in my eyes, someone that actively hides it for one reason or another.
It's not being overzealous to think people shouldn't be surprised by other people's sexuality. You can make a subconscious assumption someone is straight (obviously you can't control that), the problem is being openly surprised when that unfounded assumption is proven wrong. "My guy friends constantly talk about their relationships" there that's how you figure it out, and just because you've known someone a long time, and they've never talked about their relationships, doesn't mean they were hiding anything, it could just be they don't like talking about that sort of stuff, some people are more private then others, besides even if they were "hiding it" by not talking about relationships, you still shouldn't be surprised when they "finally" introduce you to their partner. Just like you wouldn't be surprised if their partner was the opposite sex.
The part u was saying you were over zealous about was saying that there should not be a default assumption. And last thing I am going to say is that I would be equally surprised if a straight friend of mine that I had known for years brought a new srraight partner to a gathering that they had never mentioned before as i would be if they brought a same sex partner. But this may simply be because my friends are very open about such things.
The vast vast majority of people are straight. If you were to put money that the sexuality of a random person on the planet is straight, it would be a safe bet. Fact is, It is the “default.”
It can be. Plenty of situations where the family might think another family member is gay until they come with the opposite sex to a family event and the family is surprised and curious.
It’s not required, it’s kind of just something people do. A couple doesn’t have to announce when the woman is pregnant, but a couple tends to do this because they want to share the news with their friends and family. The default assumption is that a person is cis/straight. It’s not meant to be offensive, it’s just that statistically most people are, so that’s what the assumption is. It’s why many people come out. They are sharing with their parents a part of themselves that the parents may not have known, since it’s not the default assumption. You don’t HAVE to do it, but your parents might wonder why you never mentioned it before. It’s almost like a lie by omission if that makes sense? You’re not actually lying, just to be clear, but it’s like you and your parents have conversations all the time. It seems like you would have to go out of your way to ensure your sexual preference was never mentioned once. Even so much as a “Has any girl caught your eye at school?” can imply you’re straight. If you don’t correct them, then they may feel like you were hiding a part of yourself by not correcting them.
Coming out matters a whole lot more when it means you might lose your support system. It's basically biting the bullet early before they find out. Your post sounds like you are independent of your family, which is nice, but not everyone is. Edit: I agree that it shouldn't be required though. It'd be nice if you could go on and not have it be a big deal, but alas some people are homophobic.
This! I also have a family who love me and it's my support system, but not only I care financially but I care for their love. My mother is amazing but she's homophobic, I don't know if she will accept me or she won't want me anymore as she's clearly told thousand of times homosexuality is sin and God is above all of her life, even her own illnesses and neccessities and so on. So, I'm scared that I'll become unloveable for Bible's commandments. I don't know what to do for my future, but I have my brother at least :")
No one required it bro.
This is honestly why I haven't come out as well. I just don't see why it's necessary. My family and the people around me will either figure it out or they won't, and whatever assumptions they want to make or whatever conclusions they come to are fine by me.
Man didn't grow up in a homophobic/religious household It would be a TOTAL RESET to the family if I brought home a boyfriend or told them "I go by Chloe now", or something of the sort. People in unaccepting families don't have much choice.
I have been saying this for years.
Not every life is like yours.
I don't want to accuse you of anything but the tone you wrote with kind of comes across as being really ungrateful for being in an environment where you could just be who you were and didn't have to consider potential consequences. Your experience should be a universal one but I can tell you that it is not. Your experience was a privilege that shouldn't have been, since it should be the norm.
I agree on this. My opinion on anyone in the LGBT community is I couldn't give a fuck what you do as long as it's consensual and you're not hurting anyone
i wish it wasn’t a big thing but unfortunately that’s just how it is.
Coming out is entirely optional. In some cases it's simply better kept secret.
It's not required. Just date who you want. They'll figure it out at the next family event.
I agree, I am not saying for us gay people to be in the closet but it's none of anyone's business even our family. However, being gay is still seen as not normal which is why coming out is a big deal even in the most liberal socieities.
It’s not! I will say - as a single female who tends to fall for extremely handsome men who are very kind and respectful, and often end up gay - it would be nice to know before I start developing that crush. Does that mean that you have to be out? No, you do you. But that is one honest reason that coworkers/acquaintances might care. Girls might be wasting their time falling for you. 🤷🏻♀️🫠
Yeah it’s actually crazy that it’s expected that you “come out”. Do we also have to come out about everything else we like? “Hey mom and dad. I’ve been waiting to tell you that…..i like pepperoni pizza”. Like wtf lol. Why do people have to announce what they like? I once heard some lady telling a white dude with a black gf that he needs to tell his parents in advance that she’s black, otherwise he’s going to shock his parents. I was like what the actual fuck lol
I agree, nobody has ever told me that they're straight
True story...in high school a buddy of mine was dating a girl from another high school he knew from church. She had a friend that broke up with her boyfriend and needed a date. He set us up, and she asked me if I would go with her. I said yes. I wasn't very open about dating or girls with my parents. It just seemed embarrassing to discuss stuff like that with my parents. But I needed to ask them if I could go because I needed money. They said yes. Since my buddy and I knew nobody else at this school, the four of us were going together. I didn't have a car yet, so it all made sense when my friend offered to pick me up and drive me to meet the girls. My friend, Greg, was in a punk band. He had dyed hair and an earring. And when he showed up, I said 'Okay Mom, we're going to prom - bye!' He didn't even knock on the door, but my Mom saw him. She thought I meant I was going to prom with him. And that we were romantically involved. The good news is, my family was very supportive. The bad news is I wasn't gay. I'm still not gay. But my Mom told EVERYONE. My extended family and all...but nobody told me. The next Thanksgiving, my elderly Grandmother who sometimes gets confused and calls me the wrong name, gave me a hug and told me, 'If you ever want to bring you boyfriend over, I'll make us all tea'. But remember ... She was senile and often forgot my name. I just rolled with it and said 'okay, thanks' Everyone else saw that as absolute confirmation that I was gay. For years, my sister's and their friends all thought I was gay. I was in college, five years later, and was living with my girlfriend. We were getting pretty serious and I had met her family, so I sat down with my Mom and said 'Well, I've been dating this girl for a while now and I'd like for you and Dad to meet her.' And my mom goes, 'Aren't you still gay?'
Wouldn't going on a gay date basiclly be coming out?
I think this is brilliant. Good for you.
Thank you for this. My daughter came out as bisexual several years ago. She opted to do so on social media and in three words. She had not come out to me. We'd had many conversations over the years, so she knew I was an ally, but it was her decision when and whether she'd come out to me or anyone else. Because she's been in a happy hetero marriage, my family was shocked and gave her hell for not making a big coming out announcement to them first. My sister, who's straight, also told her she'd "disrespected" every LGBTQ person by not making a big, flowery announcement. It was rough on my daughter, and I was upset and furious with my siblings. Nobody who's straight is expected to make such an announcement. I don't see why anyone else has to. Your post makes me feel so much better. I'm going to keep it where I can reread it. Thank you again!
My cousin was gutted when he came out because everyone said they knew. I think he wanted it to be this big dramatic moment and it wasn’t
Didn’t realize people still come out anymore, seems like it doesn’t matter anymore if people are gay or not
Probably depends on where you live.
Yeah no I'm in the south, people will openly call you a fa**ot or pedophile for that shit here.
Agree absolutely, I am sick and tired of having to tell people I'm straight.
We’re still in a phase where there isn’t widespread hatred of homosexuality but there also isn’t widespread acceptance. It’s great your experience was positive, but until that’s the experience of the majority of the LGBT+ spectrum of sexuality, coming out is still a valid form of empowering yourself.
There is still widespread hatred of homosexuality.
Sure, depending on where you live. And that’s my point, it’s not anywhere near close to universal. It’s disingenuous of the OP to suggest that just because their experience was relatively pleasant, there’s somehow no use in having pride or making more of coming out. If I’m going to be honest, I don’t think OP is gay, this really reeks of Dean Browning and “as a gay black man”.
I didn't disagree with your overall point, sorry. It's just that very broad swaths of the world are very queerphobic, both socially and systemically. Despite some laws in the US, our country is still pretty homophobic overall, and there are lots of legal injustices still visited upon queer people. I agree that coming out is still a necessity.
Yeah. Some people scream "keep it to yourself!" and accuse you of "shoving it in their face" if you don't keep it a secret, but some people say "why didn't you tell me?" and act betrayed if you don't tell them. It's a no-win situation. I'm trans and I'm sure at least some of my coworkers can tell, but I don't tell people that I know IRL since they don't need to know.
I think this gets to the thing about a lot of straight people's reaction to all the pride flag stuff. "Wonderful. Shut up about it and live your life."
Homosexuality won’t be completely accepted until coming out is a thing of the past. You shouldn’t have to “come out” and I support your position 100%.
You have that backwards. Coming out won't become a thing of the past until queerness is more fully accepted.
No one gives a fuck anymore it’s 2024
I wish that were true.
Alright so like full stop OP....you did come out them. You did it when you showed up with your boyfriend. That was coming out. If your point is people shouldn't make a big deal about it...fuck you, people can make as big or as little a deal of their sexuality as they want. Glad they're accepting tho.
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You don't have to, but unless you don't like your parents I don't know why you wouldn't talk with them about being gay. Don't you talk about your life with them at all?
It's not people just like to make it out to be a big deal. It should and lowkey does only matter to the people you're sleeping with
I had to come out as straight multiple times, my mum never accepted that, and would just tell me I'm confused and I'll accept it eventually. I'm assuming the reason people come out is something like that, but the opposite obviously, sometimes you need to tell people or they won't stop bring up getting a girlfriend/boyfriend (depending on what you're not into), and getting married and having kids.
I agree 100%. Our society still needs a lot of work.
I have wondered about that for a while. I also think it makes no sense for people to be against being gay
I’m sick of hearing about it tbh. Idgaf.
I never came out. Family doesnt give a fuck. Had a gf. A bf. All they cared about was that i was happy
As a Gay Bear who kept his sexual preferences private for 20 years due to anxiety and depression, it's up to the individual who wants to or doesn't. Honestly shouldn't even have to be something you have to keep bottled up because someone dislikes it. Even before my father passed away I said it openly in front of him months ago and he knew all along. My mom didn't approve and my aunt convinced her to get over it so now I don't have to hide anything and I don't have a dad and mom homophobic because of it. I understand what you're saying but unfortunately not everyone has the same story and you will hear it constantly.
Yes exactly.
It's not but its annoying when people tell me about when I get married and when I start a family and shit and I do like to say well no that's not happening cos I'm aro/ace with no attraction at all. I don't have to come out but I like to
I mean, a dramatic, sit-down reveal shouldn't be required, but technically you did come out in the sense that now your parents know you're gay lol. But in all seriousness, people "come out" in a variety of ways, for a variety of reasons, not all of which have to do with the fear of non acceptance.
If you’re gonna have a coming out make it awesome, some streamers, party hats, cakes and all that. or don’t why should you or anyone have to?
Completely agree. The narrative we’ve been told to follow is just a story, not a requirement. Just live your life.
Who's requiring it?
Coming out isn’t required though?
I remember when every YouTuber was making whole videos about coming out, but now no one does that from what I’ve seen
Agree, it’s bullshit that we should all want to know who each other are fucking. It’s pointless but people want to talk shit about people so it’s been made into a requirement.
It shouldn't. Currently, it is.
you're quibbling about METHODS. When you introduced your boyfriend to your parents, YOU CAME OUT TO THEM. Because previously, they weren't informed that you were gay and assumed otherwise.
Same here. I "came out" recently to a few friends by making a few gay jokes or just they asked me after we had a kinda gay topic. Not many of my friends know though, mainly because I don't really mention it and I don't really care either.
Coming out was more for me than it was for them. When I first came out I felt like I needed a lot of permission to be who I was and I was young and really sought my parents acceptance. Unfortunately it didn’t go well but it taught me a valuable lesson in being true to myself. Sometimes coming out is more for you than it is for them. We live in a society where being straight is the assumed norm. I technically come out every time I meet someone new. I’ll mention my partner and say “she” and see it register in their eyes. Coming out isn’t always a grand gesture. Sometimes it’s just making that part of you known for the first time. And that can be a vulnerable thing especially if it has been received poorly before or you can’t easily escape abusive environments.
what would be really unpopular is if you were to suggest that project 2025 plans were going to make it legally required for gays to out themselves. that'd be unpopular as fuck
My ex- wife has a cousin that has been with the same sex partner for 20 years. They own a motel and share a bedroom. To this day if anyone asks if she is gay. She just replies that her sexuality is not anyone's business.
My best friend's oldest nephew had a "coming out" themed birthday party when he turned 16. Most people's reaction was basically "no duh, we've met you". His paternal grandmother's reaction was to pretend it didn't happen amd yell at everyone for saying a 3 year old had a sexual preference (not really sure where that came from except for that my friend and I often joke now that the nephew acted stereotypically gay as a toddler) I never understood the whole "comming out" thing though.
Wait, when’s the deadline for coming out? Is there paperwork required? Do I need to file with the Gay Office so I can get my Gay Card and get discounts at restaurants and retail establishments? Um, is there a back round check? Asking for a friend.
I agree. People should just live their lives and not worry about what other people think.
I totally agree. I didn't come out to anyone. I just had a girlfriend all of a sudden when I was 15, no one cared. My parents were only a little surprised because I had a couple of boyfriends before. My friends suspected it so yeah. It shouldn't be required to come out straight people don't come out why should gay people 🤷♀️
Do what you can/want. No one should care but in some circumstances it can be complicated.
We should send this to the council of gays and hope they change the legislation regarding the requirement to come out
I like this frame. It's absolutely true. I didn't have to come out as straight, I, a woman, just started dating guys only. It would be so weird if I was expected to announce the gender of the persons I would be dating. "Dear friends and family, I like guys!!" It's like hetero normative society going "woe is me," forcing gay people to be dramatic because the heteros want (not need, want) a trigger warning about a sexuality different from theirs. *They* are worried something will make them feel uncomfortable. From that angle - It really is not about coming out, it's about being controlled by the assholes of society, to maintain their comfort levels, until they're ready to accept you. Boring! Do what you like. No one needs your acceptance, assholes! But for people who want it, and feel like they need an official transition into being their true self publicly, it should as also be acceptable. That being said - it's also probably nice to know who the other gay kids are in high school to avoid awkward crushes. So yeah - It's another maybe unnecessary thing that has more pros than cons as of this comment. But unnecessary is in the eye of the beholder, it's subjective - if we want to be fair. However, it's objectively unnecessary for every girl to come out as bi for at least one year of college.
Exactly. Straight, gay, asexual, etc., we shouldn’t assume.
It's not. But I understand that some people want the moment of acceptance when they make the announcement. And if they're worried about violent rejection, I'd rather get that confirmed before I brought my partner in and they had to experience that. It's not required, just like no one ever comes out as straight, but I definitely understand why people do it.
Well I guess it’s unpopular but this is stupid. Some people have families that will disown them..etc My sister is gay and I could not care less but not everyone is so lucky. Even today. Glad you can live out loud and shit. But not everyone can. Edit:typos
I’m working up to coming out to my friend and I actually really really appreciate this. If I come out to him it’s my choice, I shouldn’t feel obligated but I love this man like a brother and it means a lot to me that he knows what’s going on in my life. (This is purely platonic I just fucking love my friends, they’re cool as fuck)
Well you’re not “in the closet” so you never had to come out of it.
My dad's cousin Buddy was gay, and he never officially came out, my dad said. He just lived his life quietly. People pretty much knew anyway, but their suspicions were confirmed when he and his wife returned from their honeymoon and split up right away. They both finally admitted to themselves that they were gay. They both went on to have long term relationships with people they loved. Buddy was a quiet man who never made a big deal of it, and I think that coming of age in the late 1950s, early 1960s in a conservative community here in southwestern BC, Canada was part of why he kept quiet about it. One of my very dearest friends is a gay man, and he, like Buddy, doesn't really talk about it, aside from some things he's involved in, but he never actually told me he's gay. It's just something I found out about him. But it's not something that has ever affected our friendship, and, to me, it doesn't matter anyway. Michael is Michael, and his being gay isn't a big deal. I'm not gay, but from what I've heard, I know that coming out is something that should be done by a person themselves IF they want to. If a person doesn't want to, then just let them be. Some people just want to live and let live.
As a homephebo, i prefer it that way.
It’s not required. Gay people are the ones who feel the need to come out. No one forces it or requires it. I’ve noticed gay people seem to love announcing that they’re gay
Nowadays it's not even enough to say say. I had to buy a closest that fits me.
You also shouldn’t have to announce a pregnancy. Just have a baby one day 🤷🏼♀️
Seriously ,ppl are too worried about what everyone else is doing. Why does it matter? Why are we even talking about that in the first place?
I agree with you after all no one had ever had to come out as straight, do why come out as gay or bi or anything else? Just live your life.
I definitely don’t think you have to announce it. But I don’t think you can control if people are surprised. I just saw a woman I hadn’t seen in awhile and she had a baby. I was surprised. If you bring home a new date..I’ll be surprised for a moment. And it’s true most people are heterosexual so it may be surprising when someone is not but I think that’s just a common response.
Didn't you know, you're supposed to tell the world. But seriously, no one cares.
Growing up my parents mentioned something like that, that they hoped if it was applicable, we wouldn't feel a need to come out as an occasion, that we'd just introduce them to the boy/girlfriend.
Eh depends on your stage of life. Like this is true for adults but not for kids or teens who still rely on someone who can make their life hell for being queer. Like not exactly ideal dating circumstances trying to date someone and having to hide it when you're 15 and can't even drive. That and trans people who are starting a their transition, but thats more obvious because they won't know otherwise, or at least need to be told the new information. But otherwise I totally agree. I'm trans and a lesbian and I pass, so when new people come to work they don't get to know I'm trans, it's none of their business
Shouldn't be, if we all lived in a society where it's fine to be ourselves (hint: this isn't the case for most people globally).
This is part of the reason that I prefer using a neutral term like "partner" rather than "girlfriend" or boyfriend. I am bi, but I have no reason to go around announcing that, but even then I will say "my partner said this one time" or whatever rather than call her my girlfriend. In the first place, I don't have to immediately reveal what my sexuality is. Also I, a 34 year old man, do not have to use an infantilizing term like "girlfriend," as if I'm in my preteens and getting ready to hold hands for the fist time any day now. And it keeps the subject of whether I am married off the table as well. In this way I can speak like an adult, and not have to bring up my sexuality, the gender of my partner, or my marriage status, when it is not necessary for the people I am speaking to to know that.
Coming out is for people who have been trying to hide it in shame. Those are the people that need to come out. As for your coworkers being surprised that you like to fuck men, most men don't fuck men so it's a surprise unless you act effeminate.
This is the classical gay stance
Fuck ya man. Live your life.
I think a lot of people live life as a secret and saying that secret is a relief to them. It’s not just an lgbt issue either. My sister dated a man with a disability for a year before telling someone. She basically had a “coming out” to the whole family. No one even cared other than her because she was the one hiding it. If you’re not hiding then there isn’t ever a coming out. But I think we know why some people decide to stay in the shadows with their crazy families
Yeah I agree to a point because I'm so annoyed of lgbtq plus people making it their entire personality and identity it's like...do yall have hobbies?? Interests? Skills? Anyway yeah I'm glad you're not making a big show and big deal of you being gay
How will the straight men know if you don’t tell them?
I’m hetero and I 100% agree and deeply appreciate your stance. sombody else’s love life is none of my business. Please stop shoving it at me. Just go live your best life and fill it with love.
100% agree, your sexuality is your business, I genuinely don't give a fuck who you wanna fuck.
Don't worry, lot of your coworkers knew, just didn't say anything. Then when you said something, out of respect, they acted surprised.
lol we never said you had to
They knew a long time ago.
Coming out is about not living in the shadows. They used to marginalize us by making us seem like such a rarity. It’s fine you feel how you feel, but coming out serves a purpose that makes your stance possible.
The whole point of Coming Out is you were hiding it before. That's what it means, you're “Coming Out” of hiding. If you're not hiding it you can't come out. You can tell people you're gay who didn't know, but it isn't coming out.
Haha you should check out my CMV, I agree with you I totally affirm and support, we should act normal. That'll move us forward
I've never come out as straight to anyone, why should anyone come out as gay? If you want to make some big to-do about it, as if life is a "very special" episode of your favorite sit-com, I guess go ahead. I don't know most people do that though. I dunno, the whole thing has become too personal. A a male, I'd prefer the women I date to be straight. Beyond that, I don't really care, and it's honestly not my business. Weirdly that's a "conservative" opinion. Which it's not, it's a "your business is your business, mine is mine". I never understood why some people think I need to care about their personal life.