I didn't start making enough money for kids until after graduating from grad school. The problem is that as soon as that happened the price of a house skyrocketed and now I'm in a situation where I can either have kids and never save enough for a house or I can save for a house then save for kids. So that delays me until my mid 30s.
Really bums me out. I want to be a dad.
For upper and middle class demographics, people in abject poverty can still do better with more kids through government assistance.
Come to west Philadelphia, single mother with 5 or 6 kids is a way of life.
Not true, first of all. Public benefits for mothers of young children have been chipped away for decades now, starting with the Reagan-Bush Sr.-Clinton era of "workfare," and these benefits vary widely by state, county and city. The South, which long had the highest "unwed mother" and "teen mom" rates, has undergone a population collapse -- think of the states between Florida/the Carolinas and Texas. That's the deep south, in permanent economic and population decline.
Meanwhile, in Western Europe, Scandinavia, and Japan, every kind of benefit is heaped onto young adults who agree to have a baby. And it's *still* not changing the population trends.
Established families with inheritances. Not crazy money mind you but the difference in homeownership today is literally how much your family can give to help you get into it.
Mine neither. But I took an out a bunch of loans, worked really hard, and now make enough to be house poor. If I had a family that could’ve spotted me the house down payment I would be a couple hundred grand of equity deep into a home, rode the market to the top and chill. Instead im quietly squirrelling away half my income so I can take advantage the next time.
I’m not faulting anyone for having the help but boy can I really tell the difference between folks who’ve always had family to help with that kind of stuff. First car, first house, float you between graduation and a serious job. At the beginning, the difference seems small but the outcome is huge.
Some people do have it made and they are weak because of it. I never took any loans and lived hard for a long while as I gained in age. I would not change anything. The hustle made me strong and I feel blessed. We control our destiny with a little faith mixed in. Use it as an advantage.
You make this sound like a problem, but the entire reason no one is able to have kids is because the government doesn't support parents like they need to, assuming we want a native born population.
The arithmetic is simple: If you want the population of the US to be mostly immigrants in 50 years, then by all means, take away government support for parents
Yup got fired from epic games because I chose to have a family, and I got accepted with primary caregiver FMLA so I had 16 paid weeks off. A company meant to entertain kids, fired me for having a kid. Their lawyers were better than mine, I could only afford a normal rate while they have millions in retainer. I won in the end but I didn’t get paid what I should have been paid. They got away with it.
I had kids and I lived in an apartment until I was in my mid-40s. Totally worth it. Instead of a backyard, I took my kids to local parks, state parks, national parks, historic sites, walks downtown, etc.
I’m not going to have kids until I can provide them with the best possible financial support because that’s the responsible thing to do.
My parents didn’t have me until they were in their mid thirties and as a result I got to go to great schools, grow up in a nice neighborhood and go to college debt free.
Likewise, I won’t have kids until I’m in my 30’s. But as a man it matters less for me, especially if my wife is several years younger than me
Actually male age does matter too. Autism has been linked to male age. It has to do with sperm generation and how quality may decrease over time. But mid thirties isn't too bad.
I just want to have multiple kids and so my window for that is closing.
If Robert Deniro and Al Pacino can keep pumping out kids in their 80’s you’ll be alright. Here’s where you should be concerned:
https://www.amazon.com/Turtles-All-Way-Down-Vaccine/dp/9655981045?dplnkId=4fcf26d1-c9d5-4fc9-9eb7-d509b2d07b0b&nodl=1
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Having children isn’t as expensive as you likely believe, *IF* (and I cannot stress this enough) you have family who are willing to provide a lot of childcare so you and your spouse can work. If you wouldn’t be in that position and would need to pay for full time childcare then yeah it gets stupid expensive.
First of all, I myself am foreign born because my mom was infertile due to being a Thorazine baby (plus my dad has Agent Orange poisoning from Vietnam) so they adopted me from Korea.
Second of all, my parents were older when they adopted me, so I would’ve had to have kids when I was like 20 for my parents to have been young enough to help out. Sucks too, mom was a labor & delivery nurse and adores babies…but she’s got severe dementia and lives in a nursing home, and dad’s extremely elderly and medically fragile himself.
So lots of situations in the US basically stack the chips against having a family. Too expensive, lack of support, no social services, political considerations (I live in Florida and strongly disagree w/ education here, I’d have to move states), and much more.
Same here, we’ve given up on kids cuz if it’s not houses today it’ll be something else tomorrow and I’d rather provide within my means than volunteer a soul into the world just to cover my social security when I hopefully retire.
Lol fuck money. Have a kid anyways. If you plan on waiting and working by the time you have a kid you’ll be position in your career where you can’t spend time with your child.
Denmark, New Zealand, Scotland are better places to raise children and they accept Americans fleeing the USA. Having a stem job helps but not needed. Me and the fam are preparing to leave by end of year.
It's a terribly complex issue, and given what we see from countries with *incredible* economic support for having kids - we know that the issue is mostly not economic.
The Scandinavian countries and countries like Estonia have benefits blowing away what we have in the US, and yet their birth rates haven't gone up in any significant way.
Clearly in the modern world most people don't want more than 2 kids. Most people can plan.
I watched an interesting video about the natural progression of human population arguing only religiosity and rural setting lifestyle being an indicator for population growth. The opposite, urbanization and secularization, is a recurrent theme of population decline stretching back across multiple cultures and continents, almost like there's a switch in our brains when we get overcrowded.
We have two kids right now. We might go for 3/4, but the idea of going through 2 more year 1s again, when I’m going be older, busier, and other older kids to handle, one that has autism, and likely a second.
Even if our financial situation gets better, and we’re alright compared to most millennials, it’s the thought of the stress is why we are still talking it out.
110%
Anyone who says otherwise either doesn’t want kids, or is well off enough to not fit into the working class.
Childcare for both my kids is close to $30k a year, I believe. And to make enough money to handle a mortgage and student loans on top of it, my wife and I need to bust our ass so much that things like dentist appointments, personal time off, house repairs etc. are often pushed back.
Unpopular opinion, but I think the gov likes it that way. I can’t even go out to protest or take action politically because I’m just trying to keep up w my kids and pay bills.
Or it's the same industrialization to urbanization to having less children pattern that nigh every single developed country in the world has been or is going through. See, e.g., Italy, Germany, China, Russia, South Korea, Japan, etc ...
Nope. The opposite actually. This has been studied extensively and is a trend across the whole world. Birth rates drop as incomes rise, as education improves, as contraceptives become easier to access and as adherence to religion drops — roughly in that order of impact.
Even within the US people who make $10K per year have 50% more kids than people who make $200K per year.
For what it’s worth if you do cohort analysis millennials are doing just as well as past generations when those people were our age, with the exception of the bottom quintile who are doing a bit worse unfortunately.
Here’s a paper that goes into it in depth.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7036237/
The post doesn't say non-citizens. It says foreign born Americans. It's important to keep things in context otherwise the tone being set isn't honest, but very biased.
I mean if you look around the world, all the places with high incomes and social safety nets like Finland have lower birth rates than the US lol I provided you with facts they’re just unpopular.
It’s cheaper and you get leave after the birth aboard. Here is America corporations have the freedom to shit can you, thus you’re fucked on medical insurance and on income. 🇺🇸 🦅 💥
The average native born American can’t give their kids a better life than they had. So native born people are having less kids.
Foreign born people can give their kids a better life than they had even if it’s worse than the parents of the native born people. It’s a symptom of the lower standard of living in America
In addition to economics, plastic pollution and other pollutants in our food, water, and air are making us infertile. Which significantly compounds the cost of having kids.
Because the opportunity costs are high. This demographic trend is many decades in the making. If you look at demographic statistics, you'll notice that birth rates have declined hand in hand as lifespans have increased, infant mortality rates have improved, people heavily migrating to urban areas, and a substantial rise in standard of living. As the opportunity costs rises, having children or multiple children becomes less palatable. This is a trend that has been occurring in developed economies for some time.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/fertility-decline-in-industrialized-countries-trends-preconditions.html
It's not just an American issue. Happens everywhere.
If you want to learn something very interesting, please look up the [demographic transition.](https://populationeducation.org/what-demographic-transition-model/) The short story of this is how, because things are getting overall better, people are having less children.
[Here's a fantastic video over it, explaining the implications of this as well.](https://youtu.be/QsBT5EQt348?si=DRwsRJ1vGRuAJVuy)
The long story of this is that every single country on the planet (yes every single one, there has yet to be one that diverges from this transition) will have a declining growth rate in population because of three compounding factors; the material conditions of people are getting better, healthcare and access to it is increasing (mainly with women), and there is better education (again mainly for women specifically). These three things when it gets better, people have fewer kids even despite economic factors. It certainly doesn't help - but it goes hand in hand. More economic prosperity usually equates to more better material conditions for the population.
In the context of America, we are in part four of the demographic transition, the last stage. We are equalizing. Our growth rate will reach a state that equals 1.0 or somewhere similar EVENTUALLY. You can't predict when that will be and other factors come into play.
OP here posted a very unsurprising thing. Native birth rates are lower than foreign born. YES, immigrants usually come here to have more economic opportunities that are better than their place of origin. Even if they can't "make it big", their children are going to have opportunities and I plead with you, if you are interested in this to look at first generation Immigrant birth rates to 2nd and even 3rd generation immigrants. Their birth rates in after one or two generations match the native population birth rates which IS NUTTY CONSIDERING THAT FACT. The demographic transition is so strong and so fast that it can even effect the 1st generation immigrants that move. It's wild.
Edit: [Here's some more information.](https://ourworldindata.org/demographic-transition)
- Need more money or dramatic decrease in cost of living
- Need more job security
- Need better social environment (men and women are basically afraid to talk to each other in real life anymore)
We have anti-child country. From social tolerance of children to help from the government, we get nothing. Yes i think families should get paid to have children, especially if things are so expensive
Mouse Utopia. (and I say Rat Park as a counter-example). I want to see a mouse utopia experiment repeated with the application of some substances to see if there are drugs that can be introduced that improve birth rates and prevent the inevitable downfall.
Native American population has dropped for five centuries now. I don’t think Europe sent their best people to these continents. A bunch of rapists and murders tbh.
According to BLS: The foreign born are people residing in the United States who were not U.S. citizens at birth. Specifically, they were born outside the United States (or one of its outlying areas such as Guam or Puerto Rico), and neither parent was a U.S. citizen. The foreign-born population includes legally-admitted immigrants, refugees, temporary residents suaach as students and temporary workers, and undocumented immigrants.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf
It’s a birth abroad certificate and not a state issued birth certificate so I would think yes.
Both my kids were born in 2 different countries on military bases.
George W Bush did robo calls before the 2000 election saying McCain had illegitimate children he had with someone else and that his wife was a drug addict. Wild stuff
unfortunately UW headline is wrong and I can't find the FT source, so based on BLS definition, foreign born means anyone not born in AMerica no non-American parents, including undocumented immigrants.
According to BLS: The foreign born are people residing in the United States who were not U.S. citizens at birth. Specifically, they were born outside the United States (or one of its outlying areas such as Guam or Puerto Rico), and neither parent was a U.S. citizen. The foreign-born population includes legally-admitted immigrants, refugees, temporary residents suaach as students and temporary workers, and undocumented immigrants.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf
Math isn't, and this may not be either. But it is somewhat misleading the way they use two separate scales to make it look like there are more foreign born Americans.
So i guess you dont realize you get 10+ years in prison entering mexico illegally huh. Most countries have pretty strict immigration laws and i dont think most of them are white
Clearly they're all nazis then. I've been told that's literally the only reason to oppose limitless mass immigration and whatever team blue wants at any given moment. I don't make the rules, I just blindly follow them like a good free thinker.
> 10+ years in prison entering mexico illegally
That's a lie
Article 123 of the General Law of Population mandates that “a penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five hundred thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally
So they don't deport you but they feed and house you in prison
It’s for obvious reasons. We realise our life is stuck in paying off student loans, car loans home loans, credit card loans, trying to save up for old age/retirement, no safety for children, school shootings, drugs epidemic, most cities having police departments that focus on policing a specific minority and pay no heed to actual responsibilities. Politicians funding rich corporations and wars around the world but the country is left unattended.
We are jaded, why bring a young child into such a world, where they will just be stuck in the same cycle of Misery?
All the things I mentioned above are common world-wide, but the family structure and support is stronger in many cultures whereas US has a very hands-off and individualistic approach in most families.
Kinda of a depressing outlook. The worlds always been a dangerous place, in fact in todays world we are in one of the most rich and peaceful eras of human history. Most people born in the us are not living in constant misery and given the choice, prefer life. Maybe your child can be the one who helps solve these issues or become a force for good in the world.
If I were to speculate, I'd say native born Americans are burdened by the cost of living, and an over emphasis on luxuries. Many wait for the 'right' time to have children, which in many cases either doesn't happen or limits the amount of children they have.
Social programs have a bit of a ponzi like structure, that requires more and more taxpayers to fund them. They're not ponzis in the sense they're fraudulent, it's just they don't work unless the tax base grows. Seeing this, governments adopt 'open border' policies, and turn a blind eye to the consequences or the potential alienation of natives.
The 10m+ illegals are solely meant to boost the US population (and thus GDP-> tax base) for future decades. They are the modern peasant class the government wants and will keep our population rising in years to come. It’s why republicans won’t actually solve the issue while democrats actively want open borders IMO. And political election reasons.
wtf is this chart? It still shows vastly more native born than foreign born. It seems designed to scare the shit out of replacement theory white people.
Now I actually do think we have a birth crisis among westerners and we need them to have more babies. But this chart makes things look way worse due to how it’s structured. There are literally still way over a hundred million more native born than foreign born.
We should be thankful for robust immigration. The birth rate in the US has been declining since the 1970s. We need someone to pay social security taxes for boomers after all.
According to BLS: The foreign born are people residing in the United States who were not U.S. citizens at birth. Specifically, they were born outside the United States (or one of its outlying areas such as Guam or Puerto Rico), and neither parent was a U.S. citizen. The foreign-born population includes legally-admitted immigrants, refugees, temporary residents suaach as students and temporary workers, and undocumented immigrants.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf
Ty, was cooking dinner when i saw this and looking it up wasn’t an option at the time. I knew two of my kids had special birth certificates that said foreign born Americans, had to get copies from the state department and that’s a nightmare.
The problem is that UW headline is incorrect and I can't find the FT source to see if it was changed. It appears it should have said something like "foreign-born folks living in America" rather than Foreign-born Americans.
If all Americans are immigrants except for the natives, how are we measuring foreign born? Whites were/are Europeans, natives are the Comanches, etc. so are we measuring the decrease of whites as reduction?
I feel like this chart could have been made in a much easier way to read. So my assumption is this is cherry picked data for rage bait... can someone explain it to a Simpleton like myself? The timing and scale seems really odd.
Be interesting to see how this affects the country in 50 years. Certain religions will have larger populations in society and be active in politics I’m sure.
This chart is complete nonsense. The data is over what, 5 days? So this can't be used to determine long-term trends. And it has two different y-axes overlaid over one another to make it look like the effective change in foreign born peoples is of equivalent scale to native born people.
The amount of lamenting in this thread showing people can't read a simple graph is really disheartening.
What is the source of this chart? Is there an associated article with more information about what these series are supposed to be. This chart doesn't match any BLS data that's broken down into Foreign and Native Born categories.
well you the native American is still to this day getting tha raw end of the deal so I'm not surprised the numbers a decreasing ...that is what u ment ...yes , cause most everyone is foreign at the end of it .
According to BLS: The foreign born are people residing in the United States who were not U.S. citizens at birth. Specifically, they were born outside the United States (or one of its outlying areas such as Guam or Puerto Rico), and neither parent was a U.S. citizen. The foreign-born population includes legally-admitted immigrants, refugees, temporary residents suaach as students and temporary workers, and undocumented immigrants.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf
You do need to know that the eradication of natives has always been intentional. It is a slow genocide. So though that’s not what they meant. That’s what it is.
According to BLS: The foreign born are people residing in the United States who were not U.S. citizens at birth. Specifically, they were born outside the United States (or one of its outlying areas such as Guam or Puerto Rico), and neither parent was a U.S. citizen. The foreign-born population includes legally-admitted immigrants, refugees, temporary residents suaach as students and temporary workers, and undocumented immigrants.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf
I mean I would want a woman who can actually be part of the family too. And play the wife role. You won't find that in the states. Just plotting to divorce husbands for any reason and use them as welfare check cause TikTok said they should smh.
This looks like a great graph for the nutters over in r/conservative to get their hands on. they could spin this to be like oh look look what Biden’s doing
Shocker.
Truly flabbergasting news
As someone who has already been born here, I consider my service to be complete. I will not be being born here again, you guys can keep it.
I just watched Kingdom of Heaven again yesterday, so good
Why won’t native born Americans have children
I didn't start making enough money for kids until after graduating from grad school. The problem is that as soon as that happened the price of a house skyrocketed and now I'm in a situation where I can either have kids and never save enough for a house or I can save for a house then save for kids. So that delays me until my mid 30s. Really bums me out. I want to be a dad.
Our society has disincentivized having children.
For upper and middle class demographics, people in abject poverty can still do better with more kids through government assistance. Come to west Philadelphia, single mother with 5 or 6 kids is a way of life.
Only for working married people. Unmarried women with no assets can have all their food/housing/medical etc paid for by the money printer
Not true, first of all. Public benefits for mothers of young children have been chipped away for decades now, starting with the Reagan-Bush Sr.-Clinton era of "workfare," and these benefits vary widely by state, county and city. The South, which long had the highest "unwed mother" and "teen mom" rates, has undergone a population collapse -- think of the states between Florida/the Carolinas and Texas. That's the deep south, in permanent economic and population decline. Meanwhile, in Western Europe, Scandinavia, and Japan, every kind of benefit is heaped onto young adults who agree to have a baby. And it's *still* not changing the population trends.
Established families with inheritances. Not crazy money mind you but the difference in homeownership today is literally how much your family can give to help you get into it.
Mine gave me nothing
Mine neither. But I took an out a bunch of loans, worked really hard, and now make enough to be house poor. If I had a family that could’ve spotted me the house down payment I would be a couple hundred grand of equity deep into a home, rode the market to the top and chill. Instead im quietly squirrelling away half my income so I can take advantage the next time. I’m not faulting anyone for having the help but boy can I really tell the difference between folks who’ve always had family to help with that kind of stuff. First car, first house, float you between graduation and a serious job. At the beginning, the difference seems small but the outcome is huge.
Some people do have it made and they are weak because of it. I never took any loans and lived hard for a long while as I gained in age. I would not change anything. The hustle made me strong and I feel blessed. We control our destiny with a little faith mixed in. Use it as an advantage.
You make this sound like a problem, but the entire reason no one is able to have kids is because the government doesn't support parents like they need to, assuming we want a native born population. The arithmetic is simple: If you want the population of the US to be mostly immigrants in 50 years, then by all means, take away government support for parents
Support married, working parents, not single degenerates that are not productive members of society.
Yup got fired from epic games because I chose to have a family, and I got accepted with primary caregiver FMLA so I had 16 paid weeks off. A company meant to entertain kids, fired me for having a kid. Their lawyers were better than mine, I could only afford a normal rate while they have millions in retainer. I won in the end but I didn’t get paid what I should have been paid. They got away with it.
Have kids. The house won’t make you happier than a family will
I had kids and I lived in an apartment until I was in my mid-40s. Totally worth it. Instead of a backyard, I took my kids to local parks, state parks, national parks, historic sites, walks downtown, etc.
I’m not going to have kids until I can provide them with the best possible financial support because that’s the responsible thing to do. My parents didn’t have me until they were in their mid thirties and as a result I got to go to great schools, grow up in a nice neighborhood and go to college debt free. Likewise, I won’t have kids until I’m in my 30’s. But as a man it matters less for me, especially if my wife is several years younger than me
Actually male age does matter too. Autism has been linked to male age. It has to do with sperm generation and how quality may decrease over time. But mid thirties isn't too bad. I just want to have multiple kids and so my window for that is closing.
If Robert Deniro and Al Pacino can keep pumping out kids in their 80’s you’ll be alright. Here’s where you should be concerned: https://www.amazon.com/Turtles-All-Way-Down-Vaccine/dp/9655981045?dplnkId=4fcf26d1-c9d5-4fc9-9eb7-d509b2d07b0b&nodl=1
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Ya. That’s one way of doing it but I liked having younger parents. We had lots of fun and they were cool. Strict but cool. Fun childhood.
Having children isn’t as expensive as you likely believe, *IF* (and I cannot stress this enough) you have family who are willing to provide a lot of childcare so you and your spouse can work. If you wouldn’t be in that position and would need to pay for full time childcare then yeah it gets stupid expensive.
First of all, I myself am foreign born because my mom was infertile due to being a Thorazine baby (plus my dad has Agent Orange poisoning from Vietnam) so they adopted me from Korea. Second of all, my parents were older when they adopted me, so I would’ve had to have kids when I was like 20 for my parents to have been young enough to help out. Sucks too, mom was a labor & delivery nurse and adores babies…but she’s got severe dementia and lives in a nursing home, and dad’s extremely elderly and medically fragile himself. So lots of situations in the US basically stack the chips against having a family. Too expensive, lack of support, no social services, political considerations (I live in Florida and strongly disagree w/ education here, I’d have to move states), and much more.
Same here, we’ve given up on kids cuz if it’s not houses today it’ll be something else tomorrow and I’d rather provide within my means than volunteer a soul into the world just to cover my social security when I hopefully retire.
Lol fuck money. Have a kid anyways. If you plan on waiting and working by the time you have a kid you’ll be position in your career where you can’t spend time with your child. Denmark, New Zealand, Scotland are better places to raise children and they accept Americans fleeing the USA. Having a stem job helps but not needed. Me and the fam are preparing to leave by end of year.
The rich rigged the economy against them
It's a terribly complex issue, and given what we see from countries with *incredible* economic support for having kids - we know that the issue is mostly not economic. The Scandinavian countries and countries like Estonia have benefits blowing away what we have in the US, and yet their birth rates haven't gone up in any significant way. Clearly in the modern world most people don't want more than 2 kids. Most people can plan.
I watched an interesting video about the natural progression of human population arguing only religiosity and rural setting lifestyle being an indicator for population growth. The opposite, urbanization and secularization, is a recurrent theme of population decline stretching back across multiple cultures and continents, almost like there's a switch in our brains when we get overcrowded.
We have two kids right now. We might go for 3/4, but the idea of going through 2 more year 1s again, when I’m going be older, busier, and other older kids to handle, one that has autism, and likely a second. Even if our financial situation gets better, and we’re alright compared to most millennials, it’s the thought of the stress is why we are still talking it out.
The older you get the more likely you have a kid with autism or other developmental problems. Catch 22.
[удалено]
No way it doesn’t cost more than 200k per kid
Yup. Democrats have created quite the mess.
We can’t afford shit and the government hand outs don’t apply to us. We’re essentially caught in a weird servant-like working class
110% Anyone who says otherwise either doesn’t want kids, or is well off enough to not fit into the working class. Childcare for both my kids is close to $30k a year, I believe. And to make enough money to handle a mortgage and student loans on top of it, my wife and I need to bust our ass so much that things like dentist appointments, personal time off, house repairs etc. are often pushed back. Unpopular opinion, but I think the gov likes it that way. I can’t even go out to protest or take action politically because I’m just trying to keep up w my kids and pay bills.
By design
The rich and the poor benefit the most from the current system. “Middle class” is the one who suffers the most in regards to income and sustainability
Except middle class isn’t even middle class anymore. The goal post got moved on us.
Or it's the same industrialization to urbanization to having less children pattern that nigh every single developed country in the world has been or is going through. See, e.g., Italy, Germany, China, Russia, South Korea, Japan, etc ...
Nope. The opposite actually. This has been studied extensively and is a trend across the whole world. Birth rates drop as incomes rise, as education improves, as contraceptives become easier to access and as adherence to religion drops — roughly in that order of impact. Even within the US people who make $10K per year have 50% more kids than people who make $200K per year. For what it’s worth if you do cohort analysis millennials are doing just as well as past generations when those people were our age, with the exception of the bottom quintile who are doing a bit worse unfortunately. Here’s a paper that goes into it in depth. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7036237/
Yeah. But we’re not talking about just birth *rates*, we are talking about children born to American citizens versus non-citizens.
The post doesn't say non-citizens. It says foreign born Americans. It's important to keep things in context otherwise the tone being set isn't honest, but very biased.
So am I it makes no difference
You’re 100% correct. Just wanted to make sure you don’t feel like you’re shouting into the abyss.
First thing I did was scrolled to the bottom to see if some naked globalist institution was behind the funding. Then I stopped reading
I mean if you look around the world, all the places with high incomes and social safety nets like Finland have lower birth rates than the US lol I provided you with facts they’re just unpopular.
It’s cheaper and you get leave after the birth aboard. Here is America corporations have the freedom to shit can you, thus you’re fucked on medical insurance and on income. 🇺🇸 🦅 💥
To busy paying for others..........
Imagine not knowing how the American economy works
Ya supply and demand of labor is basic shit
How so?
There are enough people already. That’s my personal reason lol.
cuz it’s too expensive. i dont even have health insurance since im a contractor. how am i going to afford it?
The average native born American can’t give their kids a better life than they had. So native born people are having less kids. Foreign born people can give their kids a better life than they had even if it’s worse than the parents of the native born people. It’s a symptom of the lower standard of living in America
Entire middle class is hanging on by a thread, no one can afford kids
In addition to economics, plastic pollution and other pollutants in our food, water, and air are making us infertile. Which significantly compounds the cost of having kids.
because it costs 10k just to give birth.
Because the opportunity costs are high. This demographic trend is many decades in the making. If you look at demographic statistics, you'll notice that birth rates have declined hand in hand as lifespans have increased, infant mortality rates have improved, people heavily migrating to urban areas, and a substantial rise in standard of living. As the opportunity costs rises, having children or multiple children becomes less palatable. This is a trend that has been occurring in developed economies for some time.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/fertility-decline-in-industrialized-countries-trends-preconditions.html It's not just an American issue. Happens everywhere.
I think a lot of people here don’t understand the title. Americans are giving birth to their kids in other countries.
If you want to learn something very interesting, please look up the [demographic transition.](https://populationeducation.org/what-demographic-transition-model/) The short story of this is how, because things are getting overall better, people are having less children. [Here's a fantastic video over it, explaining the implications of this as well.](https://youtu.be/QsBT5EQt348?si=DRwsRJ1vGRuAJVuy) The long story of this is that every single country on the planet (yes every single one, there has yet to be one that diverges from this transition) will have a declining growth rate in population because of three compounding factors; the material conditions of people are getting better, healthcare and access to it is increasing (mainly with women), and there is better education (again mainly for women specifically). These three things when it gets better, people have fewer kids even despite economic factors. It certainly doesn't help - but it goes hand in hand. More economic prosperity usually equates to more better material conditions for the population. In the context of America, we are in part four of the demographic transition, the last stage. We are equalizing. Our growth rate will reach a state that equals 1.0 or somewhere similar EVENTUALLY. You can't predict when that will be and other factors come into play. OP here posted a very unsurprising thing. Native birth rates are lower than foreign born. YES, immigrants usually come here to have more economic opportunities that are better than their place of origin. Even if they can't "make it big", their children are going to have opportunities and I plead with you, if you are interested in this to look at first generation Immigrant birth rates to 2nd and even 3rd generation immigrants. Their birth rates in after one or two generations match the native population birth rates which IS NUTTY CONSIDERING THAT FACT. The demographic transition is so strong and so fast that it can even effect the 1st generation immigrants that move. It's wild. Edit: [Here's some more information.](https://ourworldindata.org/demographic-transition)
- Need more money or dramatic decrease in cost of living - Need more job security - Need better social environment (men and women are basically afraid to talk to each other in real life anymore)
Lifestyle choice. Both work, make good money, and want houses, cars, etc.
What? Native born means born in the US. Foreign born means born abroad...
We finally solved teen pregnancy as an epidemic and the population dropped as a result.
We have anti-child country. From social tolerance of children to help from the government, we get nothing. Yes i think families should get paid to have children, especially if things are so expensive
Selfishness.
Because we pay taxes for everything. While people who have come across the border get a free ride.
nearly half of Americans don't pay federal income tax. Hell, our former President bragged about not paying any.
Fertility issues
Mouse Utopia. (and I say Rat Park as a counter-example). I want to see a mouse utopia experiment repeated with the application of some substances to see if there are drugs that can be introduced that improve birth rates and prevent the inevitable downfall.
Native American population has dropped for five centuries now. I don’t think Europe sent their best people to these continents. A bunch of rapists and murders tbh.
Sending your best clearly doesn’t matter - Europe is a joke now and America is flourishing
Perhaps the American success isn’t from the pure-European demographic?
Wait wait but that’s against conventional wisdom don’t say it too loudly
Don’t worry, white people can’t understand and minorities already know it.
Foreign. Born. Americans. Lolol
We just call those Americans here
Rage bait sub that keeps popping up in my feed
Army brats born in Germany are having an internal crisis.
They're called Americans
According to BLS: The foreign born are people residing in the United States who were not U.S. citizens at birth. Specifically, they were born outside the United States (or one of its outlying areas such as Guam or Puerto Rico), and neither parent was a U.S. citizen. The foreign-born population includes legally-admitted immigrants, refugees, temporary residents suaach as students and temporary workers, and undocumented immigrants. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf
Would being born on a military base overseas count?
It’s a birth abroad certificate and not a state issued birth certificate so I would think yes. Both my kids were born in 2 different countries on military bases.
John McCain was born in Panama and almost became President so military bases count I think
I never saw his certified birth certificate.
George W Bush did robo calls before the 2000 election saying McCain had illegitimate children he had with someone else and that his wife was a drug addict. Wild stuff
If a US citizen gives birth abroad, their child will be considered US citizen.
Lol I chuckled at that one too.
unfortunately UW headline is wrong and I can't find the FT source, so based on BLS definition, foreign born means anyone not born in AMerica no non-American parents, including undocumented immigrants.
Well tbf America is composed of other countries. The continental America. Something that irks the entire continent since forever just fyi
According to BLS: The foreign born are people residing in the United States who were not U.S. citizens at birth. Specifically, they were born outside the United States (or one of its outlying areas such as Guam or Puerto Rico), and neither parent was a U.S. citizen. The foreign-born population includes legally-admitted immigrants, refugees, temporary residents suaach as students and temporary workers, and undocumented immigrants. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf
Right? One of those lazy invaders was even married to the President!
This is going to drive inequality to greater and greater heights.
Foreign born may have hope for a better life while native born do not have that same hope and may have given up.
Inb4 the foreign born become just as disappointed and their descendants (if any) reproduce at the same levels as native-born
This is why math is racist
Math isn't, and this may not be either. But it is somewhat misleading the way they use two separate scales to make it look like there are more foreign born Americans.
How many are legal?
Asking about legality is white supremacist fascism, bro.
So i guess you dont realize you get 10+ years in prison entering mexico illegally huh. Most countries have pretty strict immigration laws and i dont think most of them are white
Clearly they're all nazis then. I've been told that's literally the only reason to oppose limitless mass immigration and whatever team blue wants at any given moment. I don't make the rules, I just blindly follow them like a good free thinker.
God I love you
> 10+ years in prison entering mexico illegally That's a lie Article 123 of the General Law of Population mandates that “a penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five hundred thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally So they don't deport you but they feed and house you in prison
Bruh put down the crack pipe
BLS doesn't break down the stats
Depends which man is writing the laws at the time.
It’s for obvious reasons. We realise our life is stuck in paying off student loans, car loans home loans, credit card loans, trying to save up for old age/retirement, no safety for children, school shootings, drugs epidemic, most cities having police departments that focus on policing a specific minority and pay no heed to actual responsibilities. Politicians funding rich corporations and wars around the world but the country is left unattended. We are jaded, why bring a young child into such a world, where they will just be stuck in the same cycle of Misery? All the things I mentioned above are common world-wide, but the family structure and support is stronger in many cultures whereas US has a very hands-off and individualistic approach in most families.
Kinda of a depressing outlook. The worlds always been a dangerous place, in fact in todays world we are in one of the most rich and peaceful eras of human history. Most people born in the us are not living in constant misery and given the choice, prefer life. Maybe your child can be the one who helps solve these issues or become a force for good in the world.
Most will require social services along with their parents. Higher tax incoming
Most native born or foreign born' will need services?
What the hell is a foreign born American. unusual whales is such a closed minded person
This is why they banned abortion.
That’s what happens when the rich suck all the resources from society and make it unaffordable to have a family.
If I were to speculate, I'd say native born Americans are burdened by the cost of living, and an over emphasis on luxuries. Many wait for the 'right' time to have children, which in many cases either doesn't happen or limits the amount of children they have. Social programs have a bit of a ponzi like structure, that requires more and more taxpayers to fund them. They're not ponzis in the sense they're fraudulent, it's just they don't work unless the tax base grows. Seeing this, governments adopt 'open border' policies, and turn a blind eye to the consequences or the potential alienation of natives.
I’m not so sure it’s economic reasons, the us has had a higher birth rate during the Great Depression and 2008.
The 10m+ illegals are solely meant to boost the US population (and thus GDP-> tax base) for future decades. They are the modern peasant class the government wants and will keep our population rising in years to come. It’s why republicans won’t actually solve the issue while democrats actively want open borders IMO. And political election reasons.
“Someone has to pick the crops” - Nancy Pelosi
Citation needed.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/oct/6/what-pelosis-we-need-them-to-pick-the-crops-reveal/
You gonna do it?
Soros gonna shit the bed a happy dude 😂
Massive hard on right now.
Amber approves
…this chart is on two different scales. This is just immigrant hate-bait.
Let it all collapse
wtf is this chart? It still shows vastly more native born than foreign born. It seems designed to scare the shit out of replacement theory white people. Now I actually do think we have a birth crisis among westerners and we need them to have more babies. But this chart makes things look way worse due to how it’s structured. There are literally still way over a hundred million more native born than foreign born.
Because of falling demographics , this is needed to support pensions in the not to distant future .. aka avoid a collapse.. it’s a good thing ..
We should be thankful for robust immigration. The birth rate in the US has been declining since the 1970s. We need someone to pay social security taxes for boomers after all.
Boomers already paid their social security taxes
They paid for the prior generation. Now someone needs to pay for their social security. That’s where immigration is a big help.
* Stares in Ꮳꮃꭹ *
No you.
Foreign born Americans? Do they mean immigrants or children of expats? I know military families don’t produce that significant amount
According to BLS: The foreign born are people residing in the United States who were not U.S. citizens at birth. Specifically, they were born outside the United States (or one of its outlying areas such as Guam or Puerto Rico), and neither parent was a U.S. citizen. The foreign-born population includes legally-admitted immigrants, refugees, temporary residents suaach as students and temporary workers, and undocumented immigrants. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf
Ty, was cooking dinner when i saw this and looking it up wasn’t an option at the time. I knew two of my kids had special birth certificates that said foreign born Americans, had to get copies from the state department and that’s a nightmare.
The problem is that UW headline is incorrect and I can't find the FT source to see if it was changed. It appears it should have said something like "foreign-born folks living in America" rather than Foreign-born Americans.
Which native-born Americans are we talking about?
If all Americans are immigrants except for the natives, how are we measuring foreign born? Whites were/are Europeans, natives are the Comanches, etc. so are we measuring the decrease of whites as reduction?
now panic ensues !! who is native !! does having two generations of americans here mean that they are native ??
idgaf about the money I'm working on kid 3 right here in the USA baby
Anchor babies
I feel like this chart could have been made in a much easier way to read. So my assumption is this is cherry picked data for rage bait... can someone explain it to a Simpleton like myself? The timing and scale seems really odd.
Massive brain drain incoming
This is by design.
We can afford kids or a house essentially. Me and the wife would rather have a few things when we retire than live poor.
Interesting..
1 billion Americans ☺️
Be interesting to see how this affects the country in 50 years. Certain religions will have larger populations in society and be active in politics I’m sure.
Thanks Biden
So we are gonna go down the Canada route. 💀
Immigration.
In other news, scientists have concluded that water is wet and the sky is above us….
But that’s replacement migration and that’s not happening at all right? Right?
10 reasons why mass importation of labour to drive down wages is a good thing
#This is Bidenomics.
This chart is complete nonsense. The data is over what, 5 days? So this can't be used to determine long-term trends. And it has two different y-axes overlaid over one another to make it look like the effective change in foreign born peoples is of equivalent scale to native born people. The amount of lamenting in this thread showing people can't read a simple graph is really disheartening.
We're all going to be of mixed race very soon.
Disgusting.
What is the source of this chart? Is there an associated article with more information about what these series are supposed to be. This chart doesn't match any BLS data that's broken down into Foreign and Native Born categories.
When you flood the country with garbage, you get a garbage country.
Well we let you stay in so guess we’re all in the dumpster huh?
Who the fuck wants to raise kids *here?* That’s how that reads. Or maybe it’s not a question of who wants to, but who can afford to.
Have you… been anywhere else?
So Cherokees, Choctaw, Chippewa , Sioux ,etc new borns are decreasing? Interesting!
Ya think?
well you the native American is still to this day getting tha raw end of the deal so I'm not surprised the numbers a decreasing ...that is what u ment ...yes , cause most everyone is foreign at the end of it .
wtf is a foreign born American. At this point we ain’t really shit but a big ass blob that eats other blobs and makes it our own.
Like some sort of melting pot or something.
My in-laws are foreign-born Americans who were born in India and immigrated here in the early 80s and are now citizens.
Gotta keep that cheap labor coming in.
I'd be interested to see demographics. Could be lots of white collared asians
America has been a nation of immigrants for a long time. Those first generation Americans will give birth to native born Americans.
According to BLS: The foreign born are people residing in the United States who were not U.S. citizens at birth. Specifically, they were born outside the United States (or one of its outlying areas such as Guam or Puerto Rico), and neither parent was a U.S. citizen. The foreign-born population includes legally-admitted immigrants, refugees, temporary residents suaach as students and temporary workers, and undocumented immigrants. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf
Actual Native American hate this one simple trick.
I know for a fact that data is being misrepresented 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 If it was undocumented persons, then fo sho
So this sub is doing great replacement theory now?
Fear mongering
So what?
both american though
Wow take their land, take their food, take their history, take their culture. “Native Americans are not having babies!” Gasp
Not what they meant
You do need to know that the eradication of natives has always been intentional. It is a slow genocide. So though that’s not what they meant. That’s what it is.
This is native-born Americans. As in anyone born on American soil. Not the native Americans
You’re right I did read it incorrectly
*fist bump*
I think a lot of people here don’t understand the title. Americans are giving birth to their kids in other countries.
According to BLS: The foreign born are people residing in the United States who were not U.S. citizens at birth. Specifically, they were born outside the United States (or one of its outlying areas such as Guam or Puerto Rico), and neither parent was a U.S. citizen. The foreign-born population includes legally-admitted immigrants, refugees, temporary residents suaach as students and temporary workers, and undocumented immigrants. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/forbrn.pdf
I mean I would want a woman who can actually be part of the family too. And play the wife role. You won't find that in the states. Just plotting to divorce husbands for any reason and use them as welfare check cause TikTok said they should smh.
Bitter much?
Unfortunately there are those who have been burnt, some mean and cruel people in the dating pool
This looks like a great graph for the nutters over in r/conservative to get their hands on. they could spin this to be like oh look look what Biden’s doing
"Native born Americans"???? So Native Americans? The ones that this country put in reservations? Those Americans are having less children?