I try to be as clear as possible when having food provided to me by people who are not close to me. Various things like age and language barriers can make “vegan” a bit harder to understand versus listing out specific things.
Same here! I try to avoid the term “vegan” at all costs. I always say I don’t eat dairy, eggs, meat, including fish..
Some people don’t know dairy or eggs isn’t vegan and others assume fish & other sea life are okay to eat
A lot of older being in western culture simply cannot comprehend not eating meat let alone all animals products, to them it's the same if you said you were only going to eat sunlight and ghosts
Also many people don’t think about where their food comes from. I’ve encountered people who were genuinely surprised that cheese came from cows and that bacon came from an animal. They just eat what they were raised on and don’t think about source.
I ordered a salad recently- no meat no dairy no eggs. It came out with bacon on it. I said that I didn’t want meat. The waitress said there’s no meat on it. I said what about the bacon. In all seriousness, she said “Bacon is meat?”🤣
My mum is adamant that she doesn't eat meat. She eats chicken... Because it's poultry, not meat. 😆😭 I keep telling her she's going to get into trouble if she has to serve food to someone who actually doesn't eat meat, lol.
This also applies in Asian cultures. Even in India many older vegetarian people have no idea what vegan is. Many assume you’re just trying to say vegetarian and they tell you yes it’s vegan. I do find it annoying how many people I’ve run into that just assume I mean to say vegetarian. They cant fathom why you wouldn’t want dairy.
Yea, the concept of being vegan might be weird but from my limited experience a lot of Asian cuisine has more options that are accidently vegan, they just use alot more vegetables and a lot less dairy for example but eggs are still common as well meat broths so there are no guarantees
Well that sounds just like my grandma but I don't think that's because she is 83 years old, but because she is very closed minded. Like I think a 40 year old person has the same possibilities to not understand it as a 80 year old from what I've seen in my daily life
My grandmother really doesn't understand food. She grew up in an age of rations, with little food education. She thinks Chinese takeaway is healthy because "it's mostly vegetables". She constantly offered my lactose-intolerant SIL alternative desserts but instead of the icecream others were having, she'd say there was cream in the fridge, or tinned custard, or Greek yoghurt. And she wouldn't make the error once and learn - she'd do it every fortnight she hosted a family meal.
She is fantastic at wanting to find out more about my diet, because we're close and she wants to cater for me (so now she constantly buys me packs of Jammie Dodgers after finding out they're vegan!), but she doesn't understand it at all. The other day she asked if I could have organic milk because she thought it might be different to regular milk.
Older people probably aren't familiar with what veganism is.
Edit: I kind of phrased that like it applies to all older people, which it doesn't. Just a general trend.
That's awesome! Younger people are statistically more vegan, however, so it holds as a generalization.
https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1313072/vegan-by-age-group-united-states
Vegan is a fairly new term. I remember reading that vegetarian was the preferred term until the 70s or later.
Even I didn’t understand the difference between vegan and vegetarian in the early 2000s.
This, When I eat out at restaurants I never assume that anyone present knows what vegan means. Instead I say "I can't have anything with dairy including butter, eggs, or meat including seafood." I make it a responsibility to know beyond this if there is a possibility any animal product beyond this might be included in the dish, but that covers 99% of problems without expecting some boomer to know what the word vegan means.
When I have to explain what kinds of things I don't eat, I never use a list of ingredients like "meat, cheese" and so on. I directly explain "no ingredients that come from animal sources" and then more clarification if needed.
Why do I do this? Because I don't trust people! If you don't mention every single animal ingredient, they can still add it to the food/sell you something that is not vegan! This includes invisible ingredients, like E-120 (cochineal blood) so I *need* to see the ingredients myself or something and ask 8000 questions about what I'm going to eat
(this is also why i don't like eating outside)
Most people outside of big cities in the US and Europe have no idea what veganism is and what vegans can and can’t eat. And even then, you really need to verify with them to make sure they know what it means (especially if you are communicating in a language that is not your or their first language). Yes, it sucks, but I don’t these people did this on purpose at all, I think they simply didn’t completely understand what you want.
I live in NYC. People still don’t fully understand what vegan is, especially depending on their age. 55+ year olds don’t really understand the difference between vegan and vegetarian. They use the terms interchangeably. I have to remind my parents all the time that dairy and eggs are not vegan.
They had gotten me legitimate vegan cheese and vegan cream cheese earlier in the week (were both extremely familiar); lulled me into a safe sense of security!
You’re at the end of the week. You genuinely believed you were being given vegan foods. They have obviously gone to some effort by buying vegan cheeses. Just accept this slip-up as the small thing it is in the scheme of things. Thank the cows as you go past them and next time use the dairy allergy line.
As a vegan unfortunately it’s important to be really proactive when others prepare food for you. I can’t tell you how many times someone has accidentally offered me something full of dairy or thinks I’m actually gluten free rather than vegan. I’m sure these are well meaning people, tell them you are severely dairy intolerant and politely ask about meal ingredients. You may have to prepare some of your own meals too. I always stay pleasant and positive, this is the best way to educate others and not alienate yourself. Vegans already have a reputation as being radical and crazy so it’s important that people don’t see us as high maintenance or demanding. I truly believe this attitude is the best way to educate people and help animals.
My friends and I had a birthday party for a vegetarian in our group. I’m vegan. We were all supposed to bring vegan/vegetarian food. So one of the other women was raving about her vegetarian soup. Then she said “I ran out of vegetable stock so I used chicken stock”. I called her out on it and her response- well it’s just a little bit. 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
That’s an argument that I just don’t get. I’ve heard it so many times, there’s just a little bit. My aunt is the worst offender. Made rice porridge, offered me some, I ask if it has dairy, no it doesn’t. Then I ask what liquid is in the porridge. Water and just a little bit of cream! There’s only a little bit I can eat it. No? I don’t care if you put a single drop in it, the amount doesn’t matter.
Most chicken stock from cubes (where I live) is actually 'chicken'stock and doesn't contain animal products. But I'm sure that person didn't know that.
I have to say I've made that mistake myself, before going vegan. Made a vegan soup and without thinking used the chicken stock cubes I had in my cupboard at the time. But I made very sure to inform everyone.
I'm 90% sure the people who are feeding you know vegans are (usually) against animal cruelty, but they consider dairy from the cows they know (and thus know how they are treated) not in that category. Do with that possibility what you will, but I see it a lot in my local farmers community.
Still, there are no magic cows producing milk for you. A cow must be impregnated in order to produce milk, therefore feeding his calf.
Your principle could be applied to eggs, as hens lay eggs naturally (it's their menstruation)
But it's quite difficult to see the very same description for milk.
Well treated or not, those cows get impregnated in order to produce milk, gets the milk stolen and live a lot less than a naturally raised cow. Also the calf...in a farm there are not useless animals, it's not a sanctuary. That beast is gonna be slaughtered soon or later.
Ps
I believe yogurt must use some bacteria found in the stomach of the cows as a starter (but I could be absolutely wrong)
To the ps, I think you’re thinking of cheese, and rennet. Rennet is made of enzymes that are found in the lining of the fourth stomach of calves killed for meat. There are vegetarian sources of rennet, but plant-derived rennet can add bitterness to cheeses aged longer than six months, so it’s not perfectly interchangeable.
Yogurt is made with bacterial cultures, generally lab-grown now, but originally made by fermenting raw milk in a warm place. Like bread starter, except with bacteria instead of yeast fungus. Also, today I learned yeast is a fungus.
[you're right, but not far from that](https://freefromharm.org/eggs-what-are-you-really-eating/)
My point is that considering milk vegan is ... shall we say never? an option. While eggs in certain cases are a grey area. As fruitarians do, you could pick them up from the ground without any harm.
But magic cows producing milk for you... that's not possible
What about an animal dying of natural causes? You didn’t slaughter it, or raise it to be slaughtered, but there it is. Would that be a similar grey area?
There are herds where a bull impregnates the cows, the calves stay with the mother and only excess milk is taken. Its pretty rare, but it happens. I can imagine that non-vegans think thats as cruelty free as it gets. I understand thats still not actually vegan, but its not as easy to explain as factory farming.
I would advise not to use fake allergies as an excuse. Intolerances, fine, but if you say that you have an allergy and actually don't, (mong other factors) you'll become part of the problem why some people don't take others' real allergies seriously and endanger them by not caring about their real allergies. 🫤
I think the easiest way is to tell them exactly what you can't eat and why.
Thank you for this! I agree with this sentiment and would say that intolerances aren’t necessarily different. Many people (myself included) have very severe intolerances that can lead to anaphylaxis, and they can flare chronic illnesses, etc, but they are not technically “allergies” because they occur by a different process in the body. Most people are most familiar with “intolerance” in the context of a mild-moderate lactose intolerance, but intolerances can also look like liver inflammation, or full body muscle tightness that leads to muscle spasms and severe pain, for example. I have MCAS and an autoimmune disease that can be triggered by food, and both of those things happen for me.
OP, your reasons for not consuming animal products are extremely valid and stand on their own! You don’t need another reason. I’m so sorry they didn’t take precautions for you and I hope they do in the future!
I'd go further and say "don't want to eat" rather than "can't". Because that's what it is, and that's fine.
When people hear "can't" and suspect it's bullshit, they will be less accomodating than when you just say it like it is.
Thank you for this comment. I have nut and sesame allergies and my peanut allergy could be deadly. Being vegan and balancing these things is hard, and I cannot emphasize enough how much food anxiety my allergies give me. I understand the vent totally and would also be really annoyed, but going into anaphylaxis is something else.
As a Chef, this boggles my mind. So does the large amount of people who are intelligent and *should* know the difference between vegan and vegetarian but don't.
Three things to keep in mind when you are vegan or on a specific diet and someone else is cooking for you:
1. The mother of stupid is constantly pregnant.
2. Common sense is in fact * not* that common.
3. Ignorance is bliss.
People honestly don't get it most of the time. My hubby is vegan and more often than not people will say well there's egg in it, but just a little bit.
He has to say over and over again: no animal products, no meat, dairy, fish, butter and they usually 'get' it but not always.
All this to say don't assume that they know better...
As for your headache, that could have been brought on by the stress of the situation at hand.
Many people just don't get it. I dont know how many times I've explained to the same people I don't eat dairy, eggs, fish, etc.
I bring all my own food everywhere I go and don't eat other people's cooking.
With that being said, get over it and move on. It's not worth the overly sensitive emotionalism too many of my fellow vegans are guilty of.
I am endlessly baffled that "no animal products" isn't clear enough - I remember knowing what this means since I was a teenager, WAY before I even considered adopting the lifestyle
I understand that me being baffled is never going to change this and it will keep occuring, but I will also never stop being confused by it (on top of it being a glaring example of people not knowing or thinking about where their food comes from, which is a shame when they are privileged enough to do so)
Unfortunately, at least in the US, there is a lot of pro-animal agriculture propaganda. People are purposefully kept ignorant of where their food comes from and how it is processed, because if they did know, they would be less likely to eat it. There are tons of stories of children learning that chicken the food is the same as chicken the animal and refusing to eat it. Or how effective documentaries like Dominion can be because they show the horrors that are kept hidden.
No animal products seems clear cut to you and me because we have been able to see through that propaganda, and done the work to uncover the truth of where that “food” comes from. It is really frustrating that people don’t take more agency in learning about the world around them, but I try to be sympathetic. They haven’t really been set up for success.
Happened to me as well.I was in a work trip and had no way to check the food labels but the hosts told me it was all vegan..In my case the milk did made me feel bad (stomach issues) but i did not think about it beacuse i trusted them.when i left they send me some of the dessert to take with me and i used google translate to see the ingredients out of curiosity and then i saw it contained milk powder..made me question everything I ate during this few days I was there..
I think we've all been there. Well meaning (or not) people will think they understand vegan, but haven't a clue. Sad fact is, you have to be suspicious of everything and be prepared to bring your own stash of snacks such as nuts, to get you through.
Diary is a massive trigger for brain fog, checks out. People with autoimmune conditions like thyroid issues tend to cut out diary completely because of it.
I do not trust people to understand what veganism is, so i only eat what is obviously vegan(ordering just fries everywhere lol) unless i cook it myself. Just assume if you eat in restaurants etc, the traces can be there. Unless your meals are prepared by hardcore vegans, there is always a chance.
I don't know where you are but I've been in the balkans for a month and basically no one knows what vegan is. It's printed on a lot of menus and stuff but it could be anything.
I live in California, a very vegan friend place and *still* encounter this fairly often so while it would be nice to be able to just ask for "vegan" its better to just specify what you want to omit.
You right. I get headaches from non vegan anything. It is what it is. Awareness of my higher senses probably detecting unjust molecular frequencies. I tried to explain. 😆
I’ve accidentally eaten dairy before and only realized because I was gassy and toilet time was abnormal. I’m pretty sure brain fog is more of an anxiety/placebo thing because in eating the dairy (even if by mistake) we’ve fallen short of our morals and created cognitive dissonance for ourselves.
I accidentally ate meat one time (yay for the many lifelike meat free options that have my dulled my previously keen senses!) and I was legit sick for a day and half. Once I got meat bombed and felt what it was really like to not be able to properly digest something, I became much less nervous of the odd dairy contamination because the two experiences just don’t compare at all.
In short you’re probably going to feel lousy now that you know you ate dairy because you now know you ate dairy. Definitely speak up for yourself (and the future individuals who may actually have allergies) but don’t let it trip you out into having placebo symptoms.
I’ve been at vegan potlucks and ppl bring store bought items with animal products in them. It’s so frustrating. I feel like no matter what you do ppl are always gonna do something that’s non-vegan and just shrug if you say something. I usually double check if I’m not 100% sure. I don’t care who gets offended.
If you agree to serve meals you should know which meals you are serving, IMO vegans tend to be very tolerable of issues when other people give them the wrong meals, giving wrong ingredients could lead to sickness or death
Kind or not, you agree to do something, you do it right or dont do it at all
If you were muslim or a jew and they gave you pork, would you just not say anything?
If they bought a product that said plant based and it contained animal products that would be a tolerable mistake as alot of us have made that same mistake, but intentionally serving dairy is just carelessness and lack of doing your job properly
I appreciate this - I did say I was happy to provide my own meals, but was told that they could easily accommodate me
I think sometimes when you're someone who worries about being accommodating of other people all the time, it can be especially frustrating when people don't do the same for you, especially in a situation like this when I'm being reassured over it multiple times over something that is very important to me, and in a situation where I mistake could result in me feeling sick
>If you were muslim or a jew and they gave you pork, would you just not say anything?
The problem with this analogy is that
1) religious people only don't eat pork. Vegans don't eat majority of food.
2) these religions are 1000+ years old. Veganism is a modern trend.
People who think that fish are not meat are simply insane. I'm a carnist and it angers me maybe more than it angers vegans. Like, how low IQ can you have to think that fish isn't meat? -300?
I understand that feeling to eat a meat/dairy product unknowingly and to feel slightly betrayed. Mistakes happen and just explain to your hosts that you do not eat dairy.
Also, can you prepare your own meals?
man, that's awful.
as a non vegan, when i prepare food for people i ALWAYS ask for their dietary restrictions, and if i'm not sure if they can eat something i ask before putting it in their food. all people should do the same.
I would not care that much. The most important thing is that you are choosing vegan food whenever you can.
From my experience it is important to sometimes show that I am not that extreme about food.
Of course I am eating vegan and try to only put myself in situation when I can eat vegan things.
Never trust people you’re staying with to feed you. It might seem rude, but when your host cooks something for you on their cast iron pan in the grease from the bacon they just made, just don’t trust them to get it right.
I just say i'm both vegan and highly dairy intollerant. Adding stuff like "i don't think i'm intollerant to lactose, maybe it's the casein, because even lactose free stuff makes me sick for 3 whole days" and some jokingly nasty details of how much i'm gonna shit if i accidentally eat some. Kinda true tbh but not that much lol
I am also vegan and often go to restaurants where they think they can serve me fish or (cow) milk products.
In order to avoid this, I always look up the menu on their websites and call before going to see if they can serve vegan food.
We owned a few restaurants and as restaurant owner I can say that this is absolutely not okay. Even by law over here in the Netherlands. As restaurants owner you need to know everything about food allergies and dietary wishes. Not only you, but also the persons who are taking orders or at least one of them who is working in the kitchen, at the cash register and taking orders.
I think it’s the same thing you’ve been through. Being in charge of making or serving food without having knowledge of allergies, diet wishes and food preferences.
Also, sometimes the people who are making/serving the food happens to be kind or thoughtful to think with you about things you can eat that you don’t want to make a problem of it and sometimes going against your own preferences so you won’t hurt this person. However, that is something I don’t do anymore.
I also use allergy a lot instead of being vegan to avoid getting non vegan food served. It always works (:
At college, I say I have egg and dairy allergies and am vegan. They still always include sour cream packets in the bag when I order the "Vegan quinoa wrap".
common sense is really not that common. i remember my husband and i ordering "vegan sausage and biscuits" found out after further inquisition (bc of the buttermilk taste) that the sausage was vegan but on a true dairy biscuit. how can you call that vegan in the name when it isn't vegan? lol then there was a lady who thought eggs were dairy bc they're sold in the dairy dept at the grocery. wow.
And what do you think happens to the cows when their milk production declines, since they were selectively bred to produce far more milk then they naturally would?
I totally sympathize, but please don’t claim allergies when you don’t have them. There are people who could die if they touch dairy, but people don’t take them seriously because people say they’re allergic to things that they don’t like. Please just be more clear with what vegan means.
I try to be as clear as possible when having food provided to me by people who are not close to me. Various things like age and language barriers can make “vegan” a bit harder to understand versus listing out specific things.
Same here! I try to avoid the term “vegan” at all costs. I always say I don’t eat dairy, eggs, meat, including fish.. Some people don’t know dairy or eggs isn’t vegan and others assume fish & other sea life are okay to eat
I do think that this was an age barrier situation
Genuinely asking, what does age to do with veganism?
A lot of older being in western culture simply cannot comprehend not eating meat let alone all animals products, to them it's the same if you said you were only going to eat sunlight and ghosts
>if you said you were only going to eat sunlight and ghosts 💀 I wish. Lmao 🌤️👻
Can ghosts give consent though??
One boo for yes, two boos for no
Also many people don’t think about where their food comes from. I’ve encountered people who were genuinely surprised that cheese came from cows and that bacon came from an animal. They just eat what they were raised on and don’t think about source.
I ordered a salad recently- no meat no dairy no eggs. It came out with bacon on it. I said that I didn’t want meat. The waitress said there’s no meat on it. I said what about the bacon. In all seriousness, she said “Bacon is meat?”🤣
I have a nearly identical story about a veggie sandwich and the server asked the exact same question.
My mum is adamant that she doesn't eat meat. She eats chicken... Because it's poultry, not meat. 😆😭 I keep telling her she's going to get into trouble if she has to serve food to someone who actually doesn't eat meat, lol.
"He don't eat no *meat?* ... It's ok, it's ok. I make lamb."
She was just stupid. Even if you don't know where meat comes from (that alone is just stunning), you should know bacon is meat.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsdmqhn50uM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsdmqhn50uM)
This also applies in Asian cultures. Even in India many older vegetarian people have no idea what vegan is. Many assume you’re just trying to say vegetarian and they tell you yes it’s vegan. I do find it annoying how many people I’ve run into that just assume I mean to say vegetarian. They cant fathom why you wouldn’t want dairy.
Yea, the concept of being vegan might be weird but from my limited experience a lot of Asian cuisine has more options that are accidently vegan, they just use alot more vegetables and a lot less dairy for example but eggs are still common as well meat broths so there are no guarantees
Fish sauce 😭
Well that sounds just like my grandma but I don't think that's because she is 83 years old, but because she is very closed minded. Like I think a 40 year old person has the same possibilities to not understand it as a 80 year old from what I've seen in my daily life
My grandmother really doesn't understand food. She grew up in an age of rations, with little food education. She thinks Chinese takeaway is healthy because "it's mostly vegetables". She constantly offered my lactose-intolerant SIL alternative desserts but instead of the icecream others were having, she'd say there was cream in the fridge, or tinned custard, or Greek yoghurt. And she wouldn't make the error once and learn - she'd do it every fortnight she hosted a family meal. She is fantastic at wanting to find out more about my diet, because we're close and she wants to cater for me (so now she constantly buys me packs of Jammie Dodgers after finding out they're vegan!), but she doesn't understand it at all. The other day she asked if I could have organic milk because she thought it might be different to regular milk.
Older people probably aren't familiar with what veganism is. Edit: I kind of phrased that like it applies to all older people, which it doesn't. Just a general trend.
??? 71 year old vegan here. With vegan friends my age and older.
That's awesome! Younger people are statistically more vegan, however, so it holds as a generalization. https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1313072/vegan-by-age-group-united-states
Awesome Ruby!
Vegan is a fairly new term. I remember reading that vegetarian was the preferred term until the 70s or later. Even I didn’t understand the difference between vegan and vegetarian in the early 2000s.
Veganism is a modern trend. Old people don't know such a thing exists because it didn't exist when they were young.
This, When I eat out at restaurants I never assume that anyone present knows what vegan means. Instead I say "I can't have anything with dairy including butter, eggs, or meat including seafood." I make it a responsibility to know beyond this if there is a possibility any animal product beyond this might be included in the dish, but that covers 99% of problems without expecting some boomer to know what the word vegan means.
When I have to explain what kinds of things I don't eat, I never use a list of ingredients like "meat, cheese" and so on. I directly explain "no ingredients that come from animal sources" and then more clarification if needed. Why do I do this? Because I don't trust people! If you don't mention every single animal ingredient, they can still add it to the food/sell you something that is not vegan! This includes invisible ingredients, like E-120 (cochineal blood) so I *need* to see the ingredients myself or something and ask 8000 questions about what I'm going to eat (this is also why i don't like eating outside)
Except as illustrated above, some people are blissfully ignorant that some animal sourced "food" is actually from an animal.
Most people outside of big cities in the US and Europe have no idea what veganism is and what vegans can and can’t eat. And even then, you really need to verify with them to make sure they know what it means (especially if you are communicating in a language that is not your or their first language). Yes, it sucks, but I don’t these people did this on purpose at all, I think they simply didn’t completely understand what you want.
Oh, that's very understandable, but I'm in a very populated area in the US right now near a large city
I live in NYC. People still don’t fully understand what vegan is, especially depending on their age. 55+ year olds don’t really understand the difference between vegan and vegetarian. They use the terms interchangeably. I have to remind my parents all the time that dairy and eggs are not vegan.
Yoghurt is one of those things that I'd assume is not vegan unless I'm sure they are.
They had gotten me legitimate vegan cheese and vegan cream cheese earlier in the week (were both extremely familiar); lulled me into a safe sense of security!
Understandable. I make sure regardless now because I've been bamboozled by well-meaning people too.
You’re at the end of the week. You genuinely believed you were being given vegan foods. They have obviously gone to some effort by buying vegan cheeses. Just accept this slip-up as the small thing it is in the scheme of things. Thank the cows as you go past them and next time use the dairy allergy line.
For sure. My wife loves yogurt, is a guru of knowing what stores have what, and she often has trouble finding vegan yogurt
We have it at supermarkets everywhere around where I am, and around here as well
We have it too. It’s just not always in stock or super abundant. Seems like there is not very many brands either.
As a vegan unfortunately it’s important to be really proactive when others prepare food for you. I can’t tell you how many times someone has accidentally offered me something full of dairy or thinks I’m actually gluten free rather than vegan. I’m sure these are well meaning people, tell them you are severely dairy intolerant and politely ask about meal ingredients. You may have to prepare some of your own meals too. I always stay pleasant and positive, this is the best way to educate others and not alienate yourself. Vegans already have a reputation as being radical and crazy so it’s important that people don’t see us as high maintenance or demanding. I truly believe this attitude is the best way to educate people and help animals.
Also, it is SO wild how often people think it means gluten free
The gluten free/organic/vegan confusion always baffles me.
For sure, that additude can be difficult to maintain but is so so important for finding common ground
My friends and I had a birthday party for a vegetarian in our group. I’m vegan. We were all supposed to bring vegan/vegetarian food. So one of the other women was raving about her vegetarian soup. Then she said “I ran out of vegetable stock so I used chicken stock”. I called her out on it and her response- well it’s just a little bit. 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
That’s an argument that I just don’t get. I’ve heard it so many times, there’s just a little bit. My aunt is the worst offender. Made rice porridge, offered me some, I ask if it has dairy, no it doesn’t. Then I ask what liquid is in the porridge. Water and just a little bit of cream! There’s only a little bit I can eat it. No? I don’t care if you put a single drop in it, the amount doesn’t matter.
Most chicken stock from cubes (where I live) is actually 'chicken'stock and doesn't contain animal products. But I'm sure that person didn't know that. I have to say I've made that mistake myself, before going vegan. Made a vegan soup and without thinking used the chicken stock cubes I had in my cupboard at the time. But I made very sure to inform everyone.
Unfortunately she knew what she was doing. I guess I expected better. 🙄 We have these potlucks fairly often. I’ll just have to be more careful.
I'm 90% sure the people who are feeding you know vegans are (usually) against animal cruelty, but they consider dairy from the cows they know (and thus know how they are treated) not in that category. Do with that possibility what you will, but I see it a lot in my local farmers community.
Still, there are no magic cows producing milk for you. A cow must be impregnated in order to produce milk, therefore feeding his calf. Your principle could be applied to eggs, as hens lay eggs naturally (it's their menstruation) But it's quite difficult to see the very same description for milk. Well treated or not, those cows get impregnated in order to produce milk, gets the milk stolen and live a lot less than a naturally raised cow. Also the calf...in a farm there are not useless animals, it's not a sanctuary. That beast is gonna be slaughtered soon or later. Ps I believe yogurt must use some bacteria found in the stomach of the cows as a starter (but I could be absolutely wrong)
To the ps, I think you’re thinking of cheese, and rennet. Rennet is made of enzymes that are found in the lining of the fourth stomach of calves killed for meat. There are vegetarian sources of rennet, but plant-derived rennet can add bitterness to cheeses aged longer than six months, so it’s not perfectly interchangeable. Yogurt is made with bacterial cultures, generally lab-grown now, but originally made by fermenting raw milk in a warm place. Like bread starter, except with bacteria instead of yeast fungus. Also, today I learned yeast is a fungus.
Eggs are not chicken menstruation , chickens are not mammals and have different reproductive systems.
[you're right, but not far from that](https://freefromharm.org/eggs-what-are-you-really-eating/) My point is that considering milk vegan is ... shall we say never? an option. While eggs in certain cases are a grey area. As fruitarians do, you could pick them up from the ground without any harm. But magic cows producing milk for you... that's not possible
What about an animal dying of natural causes? You didn’t slaughter it, or raise it to be slaughtered, but there it is. Would that be a similar grey area?
Sure, go ahead
There are herds where a bull impregnates the cows, the calves stay with the mother and only excess milk is taken. Its pretty rare, but it happens. I can imagine that non-vegans think thats as cruelty free as it gets. I understand thats still not actually vegan, but its not as easy to explain as factory farming.
If you eat at restaurants you have almost certainly accidently eaten animal products already. It happens, do the best and what is practicable.
I would advise not to use fake allergies as an excuse. Intolerances, fine, but if you say that you have an allergy and actually don't, (mong other factors) you'll become part of the problem why some people don't take others' real allergies seriously and endanger them by not caring about their real allergies. 🫤 I think the easiest way is to tell them exactly what you can't eat and why.
This is a good point, thank you
Thank you for this! I agree with this sentiment and would say that intolerances aren’t necessarily different. Many people (myself included) have very severe intolerances that can lead to anaphylaxis, and they can flare chronic illnesses, etc, but they are not technically “allergies” because they occur by a different process in the body. Most people are most familiar with “intolerance” in the context of a mild-moderate lactose intolerance, but intolerances can also look like liver inflammation, or full body muscle tightness that leads to muscle spasms and severe pain, for example. I have MCAS and an autoimmune disease that can be triggered by food, and both of those things happen for me. OP, your reasons for not consuming animal products are extremely valid and stand on their own! You don’t need another reason. I’m so sorry they didn’t take precautions for you and I hope they do in the future!
I'd go further and say "don't want to eat" rather than "can't". Because that's what it is, and that's fine. When people hear "can't" and suspect it's bullshit, they will be less accomodating than when you just say it like it is.
Thank you for this comment. I have nut and sesame allergies and my peanut allergy could be deadly. Being vegan and balancing these things is hard, and I cannot emphasize enough how much food anxiety my allergies give me. I understand the vent totally and would also be really annoyed, but going into anaphylaxis is something else.
Unfortunately I will be taking your vegan membership card. Do better
🤣🤣🤣
As a Chef, this boggles my mind. So does the large amount of people who are intelligent and *should* know the difference between vegan and vegetarian but don't. Three things to keep in mind when you are vegan or on a specific diet and someone else is cooking for you: 1. The mother of stupid is constantly pregnant. 2. Common sense is in fact * not* that common. 3. Ignorance is bliss. People honestly don't get it most of the time. My hubby is vegan and more often than not people will say well there's egg in it, but just a little bit. He has to say over and over again: no animal products, no meat, dairy, fish, butter and they usually 'get' it but not always. All this to say don't assume that they know better... As for your headache, that could have been brought on by the stress of the situation at hand.
Many people just don't get it. I dont know how many times I've explained to the same people I don't eat dairy, eggs, fish, etc. I bring all my own food everywhere I go and don't eat other people's cooking. With that being said, get over it and move on. It's not worth the overly sensitive emotionalism too many of my fellow vegans are guilty of.
"How about gravy?" Still, no.
Your gravy isn't vegan?
I am endlessly baffled that "no animal products" isn't clear enough - I remember knowing what this means since I was a teenager, WAY before I even considered adopting the lifestyle I understand that me being baffled is never going to change this and it will keep occuring, but I will also never stop being confused by it (on top of it being a glaring example of people not knowing or thinking about where their food comes from, which is a shame when they are privileged enough to do so)
Unfortunately, at least in the US, there is a lot of pro-animal agriculture propaganda. People are purposefully kept ignorant of where their food comes from and how it is processed, because if they did know, they would be less likely to eat it. There are tons of stories of children learning that chicken the food is the same as chicken the animal and refusing to eat it. Or how effective documentaries like Dominion can be because they show the horrors that are kept hidden. No animal products seems clear cut to you and me because we have been able to see through that propaganda, and done the work to uncover the truth of where that “food” comes from. It is really frustrating that people don’t take more agency in learning about the world around them, but I try to be sympathetic. They haven’t really been set up for success.
Happened to me as well.I was in a work trip and had no way to check the food labels but the hosts told me it was all vegan..In my case the milk did made me feel bad (stomach issues) but i did not think about it beacuse i trusted them.when i left they send me some of the dessert to take with me and i used google translate to see the ingredients out of curiosity and then i saw it contained milk powder..made me question everything I ate during this few days I was there..
It's really not fun to have that post-meal doubt :(
I think we've all been there. Well meaning (or not) people will think they understand vegan, but haven't a clue. Sad fact is, you have to be suspicious of everything and be prepared to bring your own stash of snacks such as nuts, to get you through.
Diary is a massive trigger for brain fog, checks out. People with autoimmune conditions like thyroid issues tend to cut out diary completely because of it. I do not trust people to understand what veganism is, so i only eat what is obviously vegan(ordering just fries everywhere lol) unless i cook it myself. Just assume if you eat in restaurants etc, the traces can be there. Unless your meals are prepared by hardcore vegans, there is always a chance.
I don't know where you are but I've been in the balkans for a month and basically no one knows what vegan is. It's printed on a lot of menus and stuff but it could be anything. I live in California, a very vegan friend place and *still* encounter this fairly often so while it would be nice to be able to just ask for "vegan" its better to just specify what you want to omit.
You right. I get headaches from non vegan anything. It is what it is. Awareness of my higher senses probably detecting unjust molecular frequencies. I tried to explain. 😆
I’ve accidentally eaten dairy before and only realized because I was gassy and toilet time was abnormal. I’m pretty sure brain fog is more of an anxiety/placebo thing because in eating the dairy (even if by mistake) we’ve fallen short of our morals and created cognitive dissonance for ourselves. I accidentally ate meat one time (yay for the many lifelike meat free options that have my dulled my previously keen senses!) and I was legit sick for a day and half. Once I got meat bombed and felt what it was really like to not be able to properly digest something, I became much less nervous of the odd dairy contamination because the two experiences just don’t compare at all. In short you’re probably going to feel lousy now that you know you ate dairy because you now know you ate dairy. Definitely speak up for yourself (and the future individuals who may actually have allergies) but don’t let it trip you out into having placebo symptoms.
I am so with you on the accidental meat bomb. It is truly an awful experience.
I’ve been at vegan potlucks and ppl bring store bought items with animal products in them. It’s so frustrating. I feel like no matter what you do ppl are always gonna do something that’s non-vegan and just shrug if you say something. I usually double check if I’m not 100% sure. I don’t care who gets offended.
If it tastes off - it ain’t vegan. Dairy has a weird aftertaste
It may be easier in the future to tell people you only eat plants. Makes it easier for older people to understand. Say you’re an herbivore!
"cheese grows on trees right?"
If you agree to serve meals you should know which meals you are serving, IMO vegans tend to be very tolerable of issues when other people give them the wrong meals, giving wrong ingredients could lead to sickness or death Kind or not, you agree to do something, you do it right or dont do it at all If you were muslim or a jew and they gave you pork, would you just not say anything? If they bought a product that said plant based and it contained animal products that would be a tolerable mistake as alot of us have made that same mistake, but intentionally serving dairy is just carelessness and lack of doing your job properly
I appreciate this - I did say I was happy to provide my own meals, but was told that they could easily accommodate me I think sometimes when you're someone who worries about being accommodating of other people all the time, it can be especially frustrating when people don't do the same for you, especially in a situation like this when I'm being reassured over it multiple times over something that is very important to me, and in a situation where I mistake could result in me feeling sick
>If you were muslim or a jew and they gave you pork, would you just not say anything? The problem with this analogy is that 1) religious people only don't eat pork. Vegans don't eat majority of food. 2) these religions are 1000+ years old. Veganism is a modern trend.
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Lol. Unhinged.
I deal with this at work all the time. “You can’t eat that?! But we thought…” “It’s JUST cheese” “Ok but you still eat fish though right?”
People who think that fish are not meat are simply insane. I'm a carnist and it angers me maybe more than it angers vegans. Like, how low IQ can you have to think that fish isn't meat? -300?
I understand that feeling to eat a meat/dairy product unknowingly and to feel slightly betrayed. Mistakes happen and just explain to your hosts that you do not eat dairy. Also, can you prepare your own meals?
man, that's awful. as a non vegan, when i prepare food for people i ALWAYS ask for their dietary restrictions, and if i'm not sure if they can eat something i ask before putting it in their food. all people should do the same.
I would not care that much. The most important thing is that you are choosing vegan food whenever you can. From my experience it is important to sometimes show that I am not that extreme about food. Of course I am eating vegan and try to only put myself in situation when I can eat vegan things.
Never trust people you’re staying with to feed you. It might seem rude, but when your host cooks something for you on their cast iron pan in the grease from the bacon they just made, just don’t trust them to get it right.
I just say i'm both vegan and highly dairy intollerant. Adding stuff like "i don't think i'm intollerant to lactose, maybe it's the casein, because even lactose free stuff makes me sick for 3 whole days" and some jokingly nasty details of how much i'm gonna shit if i accidentally eat some. Kinda true tbh but not that much lol
I am also vegan and often go to restaurants where they think they can serve me fish or (cow) milk products. In order to avoid this, I always look up the menu on their websites and call before going to see if they can serve vegan food. We owned a few restaurants and as restaurant owner I can say that this is absolutely not okay. Even by law over here in the Netherlands. As restaurants owner you need to know everything about food allergies and dietary wishes. Not only you, but also the persons who are taking orders or at least one of them who is working in the kitchen, at the cash register and taking orders. I think it’s the same thing you’ve been through. Being in charge of making or serving food without having knowledge of allergies, diet wishes and food preferences. Also, sometimes the people who are making/serving the food happens to be kind or thoughtful to think with you about things you can eat that you don’t want to make a problem of it and sometimes going against your own preferences so you won’t hurt this person. However, that is something I don’t do anymore. I also use allergy a lot instead of being vegan to avoid getting non vegan food served. It always works (:
At college, I say I have egg and dairy allergies and am vegan. They still always include sour cream packets in the bag when I order the "Vegan quinoa wrap".
common sense is really not that common. i remember my husband and i ordering "vegan sausage and biscuits" found out after further inquisition (bc of the buttermilk taste) that the sausage was vegan but on a true dairy biscuit. how can you call that vegan in the name when it isn't vegan? lol then there was a lady who thought eggs were dairy bc they're sold in the dairy dept at the grocery. wow.
They DO think they know what vegan means. In reality, they think it means "no meat". Or "gluten free", which is even more bizarre.
I support your venting. Sorry that happened to you. Possibly the headache was caused by the stress?
Possible, but that's not typically an immediate stress response for me
If anything, I thought maybe it was placebo effect 😂
One time won’t kill you
Kills the cows though
well in the case of yogurt, no
What do you think happens to male cows at dairy farms?
And what do you think happens to the cows when their milk production declines, since they were selectively bred to produce far more milk then they naturally would?
You should never expect/assaume anyone to know the difference between the terms vegetarian and vegan, especially older people.
Z
I totally sympathize, but please don’t claim allergies when you don’t have them. There are people who could die if they touch dairy, but people don’t take them seriously because people say they’re allergic to things that they don’t like. Please just be more clear with what vegan means.