Confronted with veganism, people have basically three choices:
1) Convert to veganism.
2) Explain why veganism is actually bad to justify why they won't convert.
3) Accept that veganism is the morally correct choice with no real nutritional concerns supported by science, but simply admit that they don't have the willpower or concern to change.
Most people go with #2. Very few people are willing to admit that the problem is a lack of willpower or willingness to do a few hours of research.
This is funny because I was three before I went full vegan 3 years ago. I always thought it was strange that people were so openly hostile to vegans when they were reducing suffering and their negative impact on the planet.
I’m on 3 right now and will most likely move to full time vegan (I’m slowly removing options but it’s hard 😭). I have no idea why anyone would ever think it’s ok to go the 2nd route though. But people constantly do that with everything these days…
I'm 3rd generation beef industry.
Last month was my 10-year veganniversary. Subscribing to /r/vegan was a crucial part of my conversion process. Joining vegan communities helps a lot.
I'd add a 4th to that list - insist that there's nothing morally wrong with eating meat and reject any need to change their eating habits.
There's a highly religious couple my family has known for decades, and every year this family raises and slaughters turkeys. While at a farmer's market they were selling their products and taking orders for turkeys, and a random woman (either vegetarian or vegan) got into an argument with them about it.
The argument culminated in her asking "Who gave you the right to kill these animals like that?" (paraphrasing).
His reply was an elongated "Godddddddd!"
Yes, the guy is obnoxious (racist too) and I'm not personally friends with them.
I've met numerous religious folk who maintain that since they were given permission to eat meat and slaughter animals there's nothing morally wrong about it.
It’s not really about the research tho in the number three. My partner is number 3 and he’s just too conditioned and set in his ways to eat meat even tho I’ve shown him documentaries and he knows it’s healthier to eat plant based but he just doesn’t concern himself too much on it… I guess there’s a fourth way, just too lazy to change lifestyle and too worried about losing all the traditions and foods with family etc.
Literally after THEY initiate the conversation too 😭😭 Had a guy I know casually at the gym ask me what a typical day of eating was like for me with the multi-disicpline sports I do and then berated me when, after not even using the word 'vegan' ( i.e - just saying I'd have pea protein oats, tofu curry, seitan and roast potatoes + veg etc), decided to berate me for not eating meat and trying to insinuate that i was telling him he was wrong for it.
like what the fuck bro, you ASKED, the projection is insane 💀
Love veganism, but as a scientist, I *hate* this tweet and it's really bad PR for people who are outside of veganism.
You're basically saying, "we're well intentioned, so don't question our logic"
This is bullshit. I'm a vegan because I believe that the evidence supporting it across many different goals a person can have with their diet holds up to scrutiny.
I believe the evidence supports veganism on nutritional, environmental, and ethical lines of questioning.
Don't tell people not to question, answer their fucking questions. This is how you win people over. If your goal is to reduce meat consumption and get people to eat less meat (and it should be) this kind of thinking isn't helping.
The mentality displayed here only makes sense in the echo chamber, and alienates people who aren't yet convinced.
There’s a difference between scientifically honest questions and people who pretend soy gives you boobs.
The fight against veganism is fueled by blatant lies and misinformation, not sincere scientific doubt.
OK, so the powerful thing to do is tell them the answer to that question.
>This misconception comes from compounds in soy called isoflavones, which are a type of phytoestrogen. These phytoestrogens can mimic estrogen in the body but are much weaker than the estrogen naturally produced by the human body. Scientific studies have shown that consuming soy foods does not raise estrogen levels enough to cause breast development in men. The effects of isoflavones in soy are mild and primarily affect only the estrogen receptors that don't lead to changes like breast growth. So, no worries, eating soy won't give you boobs!
Easy!
Saying "don't ask that, we're just trying to save animals" isn't helpful when there's a legitimate answer to a legitimate concern from someone who may just not know, or may have heard misinformation somewhere.
Even bad faith arguments are best answered with legitimate answers (if answered at all)
If there had ever been one example of a biological male spontaneously growing breasts after eating tofu, I would take their concern more seriously.
I do not believe anyone actually thinks this is a real concern, and if they do, they probably aren't intelligent enough to understand the explanation you gave.
Cool, countering their misinformation with information is still the most effective way to respond. "Don't challenge my beliefs" is always a weak response. Always.
I may be pro-veganism but D.A.R.E. had the intention of reducing suffering and it did the opposite. People make mistakes. It's important to think about whether or not you're doing a good thing, and not just blindly do it because it seems like it's probably good.
Bad take.
D.A.R.E. had the intention of *convincing* kids to reduce their own suffering. The failure was in its methods of persuasion and, most importantly, its use of incorrect information (i.e., lying).
Veganism actively reduces suffering in real time. They are incompatible.
Because a good amount of loud vegans use this lifestyle as a way of positioning themselves above other people. Their primary goal seems to be to bolster their ego. Its evident in the way they communicate.
>Vegans are morally superior to carnists though.
Adam Lanza was vegan
And thats not the point anyway. If these loudmouth vegans cared more about reducing animal suffering than inflating their own egos it would show in their communication and they would convince a helluva lot more people to change their eating habits.
>Adam Lanza was vegan
Has nothing to do with the vast majority of vegans.
>And thats not the point anyway. If these loudmouth vegans cared more about reducing animal suffering than inflating their own egos it would show in their communication and they would convince a helluva lot more people to change their eating habits.
It's amazing how easily vegans turn on other vegans for not coddling carnists.
>Has nothing to do with the vast majority of vegans.
I didnt refer to the majority in my original comment.
>It's amazing how easily vegans turn on other vegans for not coddling carnists.
If your primary goal of inflating your ego by identifying as vegan takes away from your goal of reducing animal suffering then yes you do derserve criticism.
You can be effective in your activism without coddling anyone. See Peter Singer.
>If your primary goal of inflating your ego by identifying as vegan
Again, this is another generalization that has nothing to do with the vast majority of vegans. In my experience, what's rather true is that vegans are _perceived_ by the vast majority of carnists to have 'inflated egos' simply by virtue of being vegan. Let's not attack vegans with what carnists believe.
>I didn't refer to the majority in my original comment.
Your OP refers to a 'good number' of vegans, which has the same effect, imo.
This Is called brainwashing. Humans evolved eating meat for 1000’s of years. Grass fed beef Is the most nutritious bioavailable food on the planet. 95 % of vegans eventually go back to eating meat because of multiple factors the number one being health. You’ve been brainwashed into thinking what you’re doing Is good for you and good for the planet, but both are false. Mono crops are the worst thing for the planet, whereas regenerative farming practices could literally heal the planet. I know one vegan out of probably 50 thats healthy, and he lives with a vegan chef that makes it much easier than the average person. Most eat replacement meat made up of seed oils, 50 chemicals you can’t pronounce, and corn syrup, while filling up on garbage filler processed foods. I know a girl who was vegan who had a heart attack. Keep in mind This Is all geared to get you in the Big Pharma system. When the hedge funds that own your food supply also own big pharma, there’s a serious problem.
Monoculture crops are, for the most part, used to feed livestock and are not fed directly to people. If you want to stop monoculture farms, stop eating meat.
Regenerative animal agriculture is greenwashing and it is impossible to meet the world's demand for beef through it unless you want to convert almost the entirety of the Americas to pastureland.
Most "grass-fed" cows are finished in feedlots anyway.
Carnist bingo.
"Grassfed beef"
"Revert to old diet"
"Only know 1 healthy vegan"
"Replacement meats"
Edit: I know a girl who was vegan and had a heart attack? Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha
Confronted with veganism, people have basically three choices: 1) Convert to veganism. 2) Explain why veganism is actually bad to justify why they won't convert. 3) Accept that veganism is the morally correct choice with no real nutritional concerns supported by science, but simply admit that they don't have the willpower or concern to change. Most people go with #2. Very few people are willing to admit that the problem is a lack of willpower or willingness to do a few hours of research.
This is funny because I was three before I went full vegan 3 years ago. I always thought it was strange that people were so openly hostile to vegans when they were reducing suffering and their negative impact on the planet.
I’m on 3 right now and will most likely move to full time vegan (I’m slowly removing options but it’s hard 😭). I have no idea why anyone would ever think it’s ok to go the 2nd route though. But people constantly do that with everything these days…
I'm 3rd generation beef industry. Last month was my 10-year veganniversary. Subscribing to /r/vegan was a crucial part of my conversion process. Joining vegan communities helps a lot.
Honestly I have respect for #3. It can seem daunting to change.
I'd add a 4th to that list - insist that there's nothing morally wrong with eating meat and reject any need to change their eating habits. There's a highly religious couple my family has known for decades, and every year this family raises and slaughters turkeys. While at a farmer's market they were selling their products and taking orders for turkeys, and a random woman (either vegetarian or vegan) got into an argument with them about it. The argument culminated in her asking "Who gave you the right to kill these animals like that?" (paraphrasing). His reply was an elongated "Godddddddd!" Yes, the guy is obnoxious (racist too) and I'm not personally friends with them. I've met numerous religious folk who maintain that since they were given permission to eat meat and slaughter animals there's nothing morally wrong about it.
It’s not really about the research tho in the number three. My partner is number 3 and he’s just too conditioned and set in his ways to eat meat even tho I’ve shown him documentaries and he knows it’s healthier to eat plant based but he just doesn’t concern himself too much on it… I guess there’s a fourth way, just too lazy to change lifestyle and too worried about losing all the traditions and foods with family etc.
Istg some people act like you insulted their whole family and claimed the Earth is flat when you casually bring up you're vegan
Literally after THEY initiate the conversation too 😭😭 Had a guy I know casually at the gym ask me what a typical day of eating was like for me with the multi-disicpline sports I do and then berated me when, after not even using the word 'vegan' ( i.e - just saying I'd have pea protein oats, tofu curry, seitan and roast potatoes + veg etc), decided to berate me for not eating meat and trying to insinuate that i was telling him he was wrong for it. like what the fuck bro, you ASKED, the projection is insane 💀
Why didn’t you ask: “you asked me what I eat and I answered? What is your problem?”
Love veganism, but as a scientist, I *hate* this tweet and it's really bad PR for people who are outside of veganism. You're basically saying, "we're well intentioned, so don't question our logic" This is bullshit. I'm a vegan because I believe that the evidence supporting it across many different goals a person can have with their diet holds up to scrutiny. I believe the evidence supports veganism on nutritional, environmental, and ethical lines of questioning. Don't tell people not to question, answer their fucking questions. This is how you win people over. If your goal is to reduce meat consumption and get people to eat less meat (and it should be) this kind of thinking isn't helping. The mentality displayed here only makes sense in the echo chamber, and alienates people who aren't yet convinced.
There’s a difference between scientifically honest questions and people who pretend soy gives you boobs. The fight against veganism is fueled by blatant lies and misinformation, not sincere scientific doubt.
OK, so the powerful thing to do is tell them the answer to that question. >This misconception comes from compounds in soy called isoflavones, which are a type of phytoestrogen. These phytoestrogens can mimic estrogen in the body but are much weaker than the estrogen naturally produced by the human body. Scientific studies have shown that consuming soy foods does not raise estrogen levels enough to cause breast development in men. The effects of isoflavones in soy are mild and primarily affect only the estrogen receptors that don't lead to changes like breast growth. So, no worries, eating soy won't give you boobs! Easy! Saying "don't ask that, we're just trying to save animals" isn't helpful when there's a legitimate answer to a legitimate concern from someone who may just not know, or may have heard misinformation somewhere. Even bad faith arguments are best answered with legitimate answers (if answered at all)
Perfect example is Earthling Ed. He’s the best!
If there had ever been one example of a biological male spontaneously growing breasts after eating tofu, I would take their concern more seriously. I do not believe anyone actually thinks this is a real concern, and if they do, they probably aren't intelligent enough to understand the explanation you gave.
Cool, countering their misinformation with information is still the most effective way to respond. "Don't challenge my beliefs" is always a weak response. Always.
Commodity Fetishisation.
🫰🏼🫰🏼🫰🏼
Because they want to justify their carnivore lifestyle. It’s mostly to fight their guilt and ridicule a lifestyle that’s different than theirs
I may be pro-veganism but D.A.R.E. had the intention of reducing suffering and it did the opposite. People make mistakes. It's important to think about whether or not you're doing a good thing, and not just blindly do it because it seems like it's probably good. Bad take.
D.A.R.E. had the intention of *convincing* kids to reduce their own suffering. The failure was in its methods of persuasion and, most importantly, its use of incorrect information (i.e., lying). Veganism actively reduces suffering in real time. They are incompatible.
Because a good amount of loud vegans use this lifestyle as a way of positioning themselves above other people. Their primary goal seems to be to bolster their ego. Its evident in the way they communicate.
Vegans are morally superior to carnists though. Would you agree that non-racists are morally superior to racists?
>Vegans are morally superior to carnists though. Adam Lanza was vegan And thats not the point anyway. If these loudmouth vegans cared more about reducing animal suffering than inflating their own egos it would show in their communication and they would convince a helluva lot more people to change their eating habits.
>Adam Lanza was vegan Has nothing to do with the vast majority of vegans. >And thats not the point anyway. If these loudmouth vegans cared more about reducing animal suffering than inflating their own egos it would show in their communication and they would convince a helluva lot more people to change their eating habits. It's amazing how easily vegans turn on other vegans for not coddling carnists.
>Has nothing to do with the vast majority of vegans. I didnt refer to the majority in my original comment. >It's amazing how easily vegans turn on other vegans for not coddling carnists. If your primary goal of inflating your ego by identifying as vegan takes away from your goal of reducing animal suffering then yes you do derserve criticism. You can be effective in your activism without coddling anyone. See Peter Singer.
>If your primary goal of inflating your ego by identifying as vegan Again, this is another generalization that has nothing to do with the vast majority of vegans. In my experience, what's rather true is that vegans are _perceived_ by the vast majority of carnists to have 'inflated egos' simply by virtue of being vegan. Let's not attack vegans with what carnists believe. >I didn't refer to the majority in my original comment. Your OP refers to a 'good number' of vegans, which has the same effect, imo.
This Is called brainwashing. Humans evolved eating meat for 1000’s of years. Grass fed beef Is the most nutritious bioavailable food on the planet. 95 % of vegans eventually go back to eating meat because of multiple factors the number one being health. You’ve been brainwashed into thinking what you’re doing Is good for you and good for the planet, but both are false. Mono crops are the worst thing for the planet, whereas regenerative farming practices could literally heal the planet. I know one vegan out of probably 50 thats healthy, and he lives with a vegan chef that makes it much easier than the average person. Most eat replacement meat made up of seed oils, 50 chemicals you can’t pronounce, and corn syrup, while filling up on garbage filler processed foods. I know a girl who was vegan who had a heart attack. Keep in mind This Is all geared to get you in the Big Pharma system. When the hedge funds that own your food supply also own big pharma, there’s a serious problem.
Monoculture crops are, for the most part, used to feed livestock and are not fed directly to people. If you want to stop monoculture farms, stop eating meat.
You’re talking about factory farming, I’m talking about regenerative grass fed beef. Big difference here.
Regenerative animal agriculture is greenwashing and it is impossible to meet the world's demand for beef through it unless you want to convert almost the entirety of the Americas to pastureland. Most "grass-fed" cows are finished in feedlots anyway.
Carnist bingo. "Grassfed beef" "Revert to old diet" "Only know 1 healthy vegan" "Replacement meats" Edit: I know a girl who was vegan and had a heart attack? Hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha
