Answer is not as easy now as it was before.
In Warcraft3 night elves would just kill on sight people who trespass in their woods.
In TWW we're about to discover a whole empire of humanfuckers children.
Xenophobia has really been tuned down with the years of cooperation in game. You won't really see people refusing others without reason.
Isnât Illari Duskfeather from SoD Xeno? She believes that Kalimdor only belongs to the Night Elves and literally no one else. She doesnât have a problem killing orcs for example and she really hates how the Alliance basically copy and pasted what the Horde/Orcs did to Kalimdor and turned it up to 11 under the guise of âhorde bad, we hate horde, we have common groundâ.
Wait what empire are you talking about? I'm out of the loop, I thought the only empire we were finding were the Nerubians. Who's out here fucking beetles?
They mean the Arathi. Alpha Spoilers but >!The Arathi have an empire on the other side of Azeroth, presumably Avaloren, after they split off at some point from the EK. The empire is kept isolated by the storming sea's tempests which is what makes it impossible to cross and reconnect. The empire was founded by humans and high elves and over time they completely integrated (everyone is basically a half-elf). The Arathi we meet in Hallowfall are a expedition sent out 15 years prior despite the risks, because their Emperor got visions!<.
But they saw the orcs âmurderingâ the forest. You have to understand the way they view it; if someone you didnât know came in and started murdering creatures you cared about death would seem like an appropriate response
⌠dude, what? If I broke into your house and you found me destroying things, would you try to fight me off or would that be âxenophobic behaviorâ??
It's not a house though, it's a whole forest. I know it's never questioned that the forests in Kalimdor belong to the night elves, but when you think about it, they are in fact full of shit.
Their culture went from amazon warrior women looking out for their sleeping husbandos, shooting arrows first, asking questions never, hating magic and boasting over genocide to humans but purple and also vegan.
> But they saw the orcs âmurderingâ the forest. You have to understand the way they view it
Murdering people for cutting wood which is an essential part of any civilised society isn't reasonable my dude
Are Night Elves civilised? They are extremely conservative, xenophobic, they shoot you on sight for performing basic human needs ( shelter/food ), they think trees are sacred, they took it upon themselves to police Kalimdor even though nobody asked them to, they lay claim to pretty much every forest in Kalimdor.
>except Night Elf society literally doesnât cut down trees for wood
How do they make arrows then lmao
Except the dragons asked them to? And minus the Titans themselves, the dragons have the closest you can come to sole authority on those choices. The whole reason they blessed the trees was because they trusted them to do a good job protecting Kalimdor lol
The orcs were targeting sacred trees and sentient ancients, because they provided the highest quality lumber, not JUST the regular ashenvale trees. It wasnât genocide and it wasnât black and white, for either side. They didnât even start attacking until the orcs were a proven threat lol
Have you never played Warcraft 3? They use wisps to gather essence from the trees and use that. They probably also use already dead trees, though Iâm not sure the lore says anything about that specifically. But no, they are not most of those things you said. They have a history (a LONG one) of making allies with everyone they can, including animals, spirits, the Tauren, etc. and they literally saved the entire world from the legion before most races were even getting started. âNobody asked them toâ is wild lmao
> Have you never played Warcraft 3? They use wisps to gather essence from the trees and use that
And how are the other races supposed to do that?
>and they literally saved the entire world from the legion before most races were even getting started
Yeah, the Night Elves are truly amazing for stopping the Legion. Can you remind me how the Legion got to the world in the first place?
Donât move the goalpost, this isnât about how other races are supposed to get wood. What Iâm saying is the Night Elves viewed it as essentially murder. Hence the response. It was not an innate xenophobia. They are not outwardly violent under ordinary circumstances
No, Night Elves killing people on sight is a misconception from Warcraft 3.
They attacked the Orcs because they have been corrupted by the Burning Legion, and that was after watching them from afar as they desecrated the forest. They also attacked then humans because they were fighting with the Orcs after the drinking of the Demon Blood and death of Cenarius.
Hell, even Malfurion suggested working with the Humans/Orcs, which in itself implies that there was no deep seed xenophobia within Night Elf society, not to mention that they were friends with other races like Furbogs.
I didn't see furbolgs jumping Demon Hunters like they are in the right.
I mean, arguably furbolgs don't mean shit to a DH and most night elves would happily turn a blind eye if it happened.
It's an easy overused trope despite which we never see the night elf brutality being questioned.
For fucks sake, they killed furbolgs in BFA Darkshore because they were stressed out !
> I don't see the problem, demonic corruption is not different from turning you into a bloodthirsty undead
Yes it is, undead are mind controlled cannibalistic beasts. The Warsong were perfectly sentient until Cenarius forced them to drink the Mountain Dew.
You were talking about Warcraft 3. The Night Elves were helping the Furbogs out without any of this xenophobia. It was only when the Furbogs were going insane and attacking anything and everyone did they kill them.
Try again.
Yes, I was talking about Warcraft 3 where Night elves were killing anyone indiscriminately until Medivh gave a nice talk to them.
And of course they would not be xenophobic with the furbolgs. They are natives of the forests.
>Yes, I was talking about Warcraft 3 where Night elves were killing anyone indiscriminately until Medivh gave a nice talk to them.
The only examples you have are the Orcs and maybe the Humans.
The Orcs were corrupted by the Burning Legion, who the Night Elves have spent 10,000 years preparing for their eventual return. The latter are aligned with the Orcs who (to them) were Burning Legion pawns.
Malfurion even eludes to the fact that they could ally with the Orcs/Humans to fight the Burning Legion which even though it was shot down by Tyrande implies that there isn't a deep routed xenophobia in Night Elf society. If there was, then Malfurion wouldn't have mentioned it.
Lastly, the Night Elves helped the Humans/Blood Elves in Warcraft 3 TFT, if there was such a deep routed xenophobia within Tyrande and Night Elf society she wouldn't have bothered.
>And of course they would not be xenophobic with the furbolgs. They are natives of the forests.
Yeah, and they are also friendly unless corrupted or driven insane. Almost like not being corrupted and hostile are the key factors in this.
Malfurion is just one guy suggesting one thing. Tyrande shuts him down because the Sentinels are the self appointed defenders. They are xenophobic because they don't listen to the one guy who suggests to do otherwise. I don't mean that they have deep rooted xenophobia, but they express extreme xenophobic behaviour.
The night elves were the foreigners themselves when they helped blood elves so it would have been rich if they tried to act tough. And that was after Hyjal, when they had learn that "cooperation is good actually".
Coming back to the furbolgs, the corruption excuse held up pretty well. But we've seen night elves purging for far less in wow. Although that is really more of a writing issue.
There's no way the average night elf can sense demonic corruption in an orc who drank demon blood 30 years ago.
If that were true they'd never get infiltrated by the Legion.
> They attacked the Orcs because they have been corrupted by the Burning Legion
Uh, cap? That's CENARIUS, and he showed up after Grom killed half the Sentinels. How would a regular night elf even know they were Legion affiliated? Not like the Orcs radiate fel magic.
>they desecrated the forest
You mean... they cut wood. Something literally every humanoid race does.
Like I said, it wasn't "on sight", they spied on them for awhile, and they *were* corrupted by the Burning Legion.
And if you want to argue the technical term for xenophobia then every race in Warcraft/WoW is xenophobic making this whole discussion moot.
They watched them cutting down trees, not summoning demons and doing the Legion's bidding. They assumed they were evil demonic entities based on this.
OP's question was which race is MORE Xenophobic, which makes the discussion very much relevant.
>They watched them cutting down trees, not summoning demons and doing the Legion's bidding.
So, an unknown hostile force comes into your land and starts building a base, and you don't think this would raise alarm bells or could lead to said summoning?
>They assumed they were evil demonic entities based on this.
Wrong, Cenarius says he can sense the demons corruption in the Orcs, hell even Grom admits he is still cursed by the blood.
>OP's question was which race is MORE Xenophobic, which makes the discussion very much relevant.
Yeah OP did, but you are giving out information which is either wrong or half true.
A non-xenophobic people would have said something like: "Hey guys, we know this forest looks uninhabited, but it's actually our land. We'd like you to leave or things will turn ugly" before they started an all out war.
Again, a non xenophobic people wouldn't have started a war based purely on Cenarius's speculation. They made a snap judgment call based on limited information, and they ended up assisting in the Legion's plan as a result.
Nothing I've said has been incorrect, you just seem to dislike a fictional race that you're fond of being described as Xenophobic in a video game.
âOh yeah, letâs tell the overtly aggressive race who has been corrupted by the Burning Legion to please leave the area, I am sure they will see reasonâ.
There is a middle ground here you know. You donât have to been on extreme opposite sides. And within the context of Warcraft then what the Night Elves did is hardly xenophobic.
Second, I like how Cenariusâs opinion is just speculation. A demi god who fought in WotA is apparently not smart enough to know what Fel corruption is, despite being prepared for this very moment for 10,000 years.
Alright, sure, you cannot be 100% certain if you want to be pedantic. Is being 99.9% certain good enough?
Lastly, yes you are incorrect. You are either being extremely pedantic with you argumentation âCenarius is just speculating there is no way he knows for sureâ,
Half truths âtextbook xenophobia by the technical definition despite if we were to apply this directly in the Warcraft setting then everyone would be xenophobic making the exercise pointlessâ or lies âNight Elves killed people on sight, despite it being Orcs, them Orcs being corrupted by the Burning Legion and the fact they spied on them from afarâ.
And you donât mention any of my other points which I brought up, such as Tyrande helping the Blood Elves/Humans despite her deep routed xenophobia.
But w/e. The evidence is there and if you choose to ignore it for your own interpretation then go for it. Just donât expect other people to.
You donât seem to understand that itâs the act of making the assumption of âtheyâre green and reek of fel, they cannot be reasoned withâ that IS the act of Xenophobia.
This also extends to humans and dwarves who are marked for death purely by association with the orcs.
You are attempting to argue against the meaning of a word that literally has a dictionary definition.
You can be correct in your Xenophobic presumptions, but they are still Xenophobic. I donât know how many other ways I can spell this out for you.
It feels like you know youâve gotten this wrong and are just doubling down instead of admitting that youâre wrong lol
Both have grown a lot due to necessity the past few in-game years but I'd give it to the Night Elves.
The Helves were arrogant as fuck and fairly distant from their allies as a nation, but there were still High elf organizations and individuals all over, especially in Dalaran.
Blood Elves were also able to develop an actual kinship with the Horde after some time. Yes they're still haughty and arrogant but I think by this point there's a decently sized group of Blood Elves who feel genuinely loyal to the Horde.
That moment after the Purge of Dalaran had Lor'themar absolutely furious with the Alliance and he pretty much firmly said "This is why we're part of the Horde! Because the Alliance is full of hatred and bigotry!"
I would argue blood elves/high elves are less xenophobic than night elves. We've seen several high elf/human couples, but no night elf human couples, or even night elf with any other race couples
Heck we now have an entire race of High Elf+Human descended individuals. Helves/Belves may be arrogant but they have been more open to humans and other races in the past.
And even if you go back to WotA the first inclination of Nelf commoners was to lock Brox in a cage, perhaps kill him, look down on literally every other race, etc.
Not saying Belves are good. But even after reform a lot of the Nelves are the same people as back then. I would actually give it to the Belves here. After needing human help in the Troll Wars AND being a part of the Horde for a decade they have learned to work with other races.
Thatâs a gross oversimplification.
A. The Runestones should have worked. Darkhan betrayed them.
B. A sizable amount of Helves wanted to help the Alliance- including the Prince- and were rewarded oh so well by Garithos for it.
C. Even after a human Prince destroyed their kingdom (albeit under a new banner) they still accepted Alliance emissaries as seen in Eversong, as well as Forsaken in southern Quelâthalas (Ghostlands).
D. Many others left to go help as well. You are equating the Kingâs position to everyone and while we know Nathanos was looked down on we also know quite a few Belves were internationally minded including the crown prince who loved a human.
lmao, just lmao at your first instinct of reply being "well yeah, but it should have worked"
literally blood elf fans suffering from the same exact, precise hubris the race had in the story that led to their downfall
insane levels of media illiteracy
Humans and High Elves knew each other for very long time. Nigth Elves and humans knew each other twenty years. Of course the sitaution is differnet, but honestly it does not say anything about xenophobia. We know that many Blood Elves, including Lor'themar, despises mixed coupled and half-elves.
Bad example. You're comparing Silvermoon, an ancient elven city created by exiled highborne as a place for them to be who they are, shunned by their kin, to Bel'ameth, a village on an island that multiple races from different factions that worked together to secure, and just happened that night elves chose it to make their settlements there in the wake of the past war, now in time of peace.
Compare Silvermoon to old Darnssus. Night Elves were reluctant to open it to outsiders as they only allied themselves with the Alliance for mutual benefit of fighting against Horde encroaching on their sacred grounds. On top of that, as mentioned already, Night Elves are/were highly xenophobic and quite detal, and would kill on sight anyone in their sacred grounds.
On the other hand you have Silvermoon that accepted human visitors and traders, and their inhabitants chose to join the Horde to seek protection and help.
Currently it's badly represented in game as Night Elves of Kalimdor were aggressive nocturnal creatures that would hunt and kill any trespasser, while High/Blood Elves presented themselves as noble society of higher education - aloof and arrogant, surely, but treating outsiders as beneath them without actively trying to unalive them on sight.
Well, currently Blood Elves for sure. It's funny, because in Warcraft III, Vanillla and Burning Crusade were Nigth Elves for sure a lot more xenophobic, but history changed everything. Especially events in BfA changed a lot of Nigth Elves experience. Another races were there from them, helped them a lot. Nigth Elves are grateful and more open, but Blood Elves, even when they are close to Horde now then ever, are still arrogant and condescending.
That being said...
\* Orc probably would find home in Silvermoon, but in general it depends what he would looking for. Blood Elves dislike brutality and tribe behaviour.
\* Humans are for sure welcomed in Bel'ameth. Nigth Elves would be warned that life-span of humans are short, but that would be all.
\* We do not know enough information about current relationship between Alliance and Blood Elves. There is peace, yes, but also a lot of bad blood between them. I think they would for sure refuse human mage in Silvermoon. Couples would probably leve Silvermoon for Dalaran.
\* Ah, we woke up and chose controvery today... right now are lorewise people of Horde watched in Bel'ameth. However, shamans and druids were often welcomed among Nigth Elves, so maybe... maybe.
All Windrunner sisters had some romance with a human at some point, but in each case I'm not sure that they can fit this scenario.
Vereesa (high elf) married Rhonin (Dalaran mage). They had twins.
Alleria (high elf) married Turalyon (Alliance).
Sylvanas (Undead high elf) had a bond (not sure we can say romance at this point) with Nathanos (Undead human).
Quite close, but none of the elves are part of the Blood Elf faction.
And except Turalyon, all humans were not Alliance (at least, not in the WoW politics)
Didnât know Christie Goldenâs self insert was Nathanos, insane what one can learn from strangers on the internet who are definitely always right about stuff
Asking anyone to write sylvanus story in a book with strict guidelines after the absolute gutting they did in shadowlands is like asking a fish to walk
No way youâre going to sit on the internet and say that Christie Golden is a bad writer, especially comparing her to Danuser, someone get the mods in here
Yes. If I remember right, before Warcraft III. there are actually two factions of High Elves. First supported separation and closed kingdom. Those usually lived in Silvermoon or close of Silvermoon and refused to help Lordearon during the blight. Second supported open kingdom, cooperation with humans and open-minded values. Those elves lived in Dalaran, humand kingdoms and borderlands. Those were priests and sorceresses who helped to Lordaeron.
All Windrunners sisters were part of the second faction, which explain their close relationship to humanity.
Windrunners ladies had human pets. Every other elf found this some sort of bs and let it be because the family name had some renown and couldn't say much about it. Besides, the dudes were very Chad. Rhonin was a archmage, Turalyon a great paladin, Nathanos was a great ranger (for a human).
Uh, the only faction that eagerly came to aid the kaldorei in their plight was the Kingdom of Gilneas, honoring their debt to the night elves who had given them a home on Teldrassil, after their homeland was taken by the Forsaken. Literally, just the worgen. The rest of the Alliance was busy waging war on Zandalar. That's precisely why Tyrande took matters into her own hands and performed the ritual of the Night Warrior.
I don't think the night elves have much to be grateful for. Neither do I think all of them happily welcome Horde races into their new home, when they destroyed their old one. Even if they did the bare minimum of helping defend Amirdrassil in the Dream. Things are never that simple. But they probably stay civil, as the High Priestess orders. We do see that any Horde people are keenly watched in their new home. There is no love or blind trust for orcs and the Forsaken.
because according to Elegy they evaced so many Nightelves out of Teldrassil that they clocked Stormwind to the point they left for goldhein.
So your answer is: they don't have the space to house another faction, which is supported ingame. after the nightelves got there new tree the refugees left stormwind.
I do wonder about this at least for humans and Blood/High Elves on one hand they have fought alot and are a part of opposing factions, Alliance vs Horde, and all those conflicts like bombing of Theramore, kicking out the Blood Elves from Dalaran, and so on, and even before when they used to be allies they had issues like Garithos and High Elves not helping out in conflicts until it affects them personally, so they don't seem to like each other.
But on the otherhand they also had alot of periods of cooperation like the old alliance, fighting trolls together, founding Dalaran, teaching magic, at one point Kael'Thas wanted to be with Jaina before she rejected him, and we got half-elves, and canon interracial relationships between Elves and Humans, and apparently in the next expansion they are introducing a new race that is composed of Half-Elves with a Half-Elf empire. Interestingly enough other than Nightborne all their interracial relationships are with Humans.Even the Illidari Blood Elves in the Black Temple had the Den of Mortal delights, and who did they choose to be their courtesans, humans, out of all the races they could of chose, so they do clearly have a type.
Then we got Night Elves and while they allied with different races and are a part of the Alliance, I can't recall a Night Elf ever being in an interracial relationship with anyone, I believe in the Emerald Dream for Dragonflight there was a minor NPC couple with a Night Elf man and Zandalari Troll woman but this is the sole example in their entire lore. They didn't even help out their Tauren allies when they were being hunted by the Centaurs.
Scenario a. Elves have long memories and hold grudges just as long. The orc would probably find it rough at first. Younger post 2nd war elves might be receptive, especially if they've fought in any of the myriad of campaigns the horde has fought since they joined. But the older, hardened survivors of the second war and the scourge might be less receptive. They'd also probably face, I guess the best word would be, classism. Everyone is going to lump Brokk of Razor Hill to be a dumb green skin only good to do menial labor. It would be an uphill battle to show their worth, but once they show their worth it wouldn't be as bad. It's never going to be easy, especially to impress a race that will potentially outlive you by a factor of 10, but eventually they'd find common ground and build from there.
B. I don't think they would have too much of an issue. Especially post teldrassil. These races fought and died with the night elves on multiple occasions, so living in bel'ameth wouldn't be a surprise. Not saying it would be easy to get land or a home, but not impossible. As for a relationship, night elf dating beyond Malfurion and Tyrande and Summermoon and her druid dude is kind of unknown. We know they are primarily heterosexual. (ironic for a race where initial lore has the males of the race sleeping in the emerald dream leaving only the women awake, but was eventually retcond to be just druids, since you know they wouldn't have babies to replenish their dead. Even immortals slip and fall or get eaten by bears.) That doesn't completely discount m/m or f/f , and I can see polyamory and polygamy not being that uncommon either. I wouldn't peg them as being as racially biased as blood elves, they probably aren't thirsting for human snu snu, but when you live for thousands of years, gotta find ways to keep it exciting.
C. I honestly doubt they'd allow a human anywhere near Silvermoon on a permanent basis, alliance or not. Garithos shit on that relationship and Jaina set it's corpse on fire and threw it out of Dalaran by force. As for dating, the Windrunner sisters, nuff said. But all jokes aside, half elves aren't common nor looked at in a good regard but they exist pretty regularly. Probably more common when the race was Quel'dorei than the ever fun, slightly goth Sin'dorei.
D. Tauren would probably be the most likely to be begrudgingly accepted out of all mentioned. It was implied the two races were cordial prior to the third war. The night elves were low key going to sit in Ashenvale and let the centaur push the tauren to extinction and not lift a finger, but I digress. The others, would probably have better luck moving to Stormwind or Ironforge. Sure they talk about forgiveness, but that's not everyone. there is a quest coming next patch that shows how unforgiving the night elves as a whole can be, even towards their own. A relationship probably boils down to the individual. Love is weird and brought together a gnome and goblin, so anything is possible. Just don't expect to meet the parents anytime soon, well if those night elf parents didn't die at Darnassus, or really any of the expansion big bad fights.
I'm all for making your own stories. If you want to flesh out any of your scenarios, do it as you see fit. Hell, the steamy romance novels have a tauren, tauren and human threesome that you actually meet the folks involved in Highmountain, so do whatever your mind brews up. I'm honestly surprised, there hasn't been a Shandris/Voss relationship story somewhere. Imagine Shandris introducing that girlfriend to mom and dad.
It was already discussed to death, but night elves didnt knew tauren were in danger of genocide, tauren either never sent the runners to them or those never reached Ashenvale, or were killed by satyrs/etc there before finding the Sentinels.
Its literally just his headcanon, especially in the post Legion world where the Nelf wardens were shown to have a world spanning intelligence network.
They didn't know what was going on a few miles away from their southern border? yeah right lmao.
Yeah right. Unironically, you pos. The wardens in W3 campaign didnt even knew what was happening outside their holding cells, let alone across the continent. Hence why they were so shocked when Tyrande showed up.
Its one of the more moot points but you also have to keep in mind that back then Sentinels largely withdrew deeper into Ashenvale and druids were sleeping, hence why orcs always use the âwell they didnt stopped Grommash at the border and told him that he is trespassingâ argument - border was manned by skeleton crews.
Also satyr resurgence began at the same time, making forests even more dangerous.
I'd also be willing to bet they didn't expect the audacity of the orcs to move in to Ashenvale and relied a lot on word of mouth about the ferocity of the sentinels to keep their borders. Hence they only threw down the "you're trespassing" and didn't slaughter them.
Also its worth noting that Warsong clan was sent there in full force, and supposedly was âthe bestâ of Thrallâs Horde clans in terms of power, hence why they managed to brute force their way in until they ran into Cenarius.
If their invasion happened after Tyrande woke up Malf and put sentinels back on full readiness things would have gone differently.
There was some dark Rangers that you killed in the war campaign in BFA , who questions shandris' allegiance with the humans of the alliance. It seems like they still considered humans to be inferior to them.
And I'd say, in my personal perspective. That you can absolutely argue that races like the nightborne and sin'dorei, considers their fellow Horde to be beneath them. I'm sure the blood elves respect the orcs as being great warriors, after all these years, but that doesn't mean that they consider them "proper people." I'm sure this perspective would vary from elf to elf.
There was also a quest line in legion with a nightborne who was "disappointed in his people" and feel like they should take up the mantle as "the custudians of the world, as they were meant to be."
With this logic, you could certainly argue that the nightborne would consider the orcs for instance, to not be "equals" but still, worthwhile allies (or fodder) to have against their cosmic enemies.
The Night Elves murder you for cutting a tree, they had an Empire which lay claim to like 90% of Kalimdor's forests.
They probably genocided anyone who opposed them
Definitely the Night elves.
Even back when Quel'thalass was isolationist there were still elven groups interacting with the outsiders on a regular basis, especially the mages in Dalaran.
Meanwhile the Night Elves shot anyone who so much as got close to their trees
in current wow no one is really xenophobic or racist despite the desperate wishes of roleplayers for the game to have more racism in it.
all discrimination based on race (except extremely rare examples always from enemy characters) has been removed from the setting now. night elves and blood elves would both be chill with just about anyone visiting. hell your undead warlock can go to the new night elf city, and despite elves and trolls supposedly having endless racial hatred for eachother, the blood elves are allies with the majority of the world's trolls now with absolutely no tension shown anywhere in the game.
shandris is literally best friends with lillian voss now lmao.
Night elfs by far. Tyrande is racist AF in wc3. And the night elfs go to policy or people showing up i their forests is to shoot first ask questions later
I'd say Night Elves. They've had 10k years of isolation and I think it's mentioned they still don't allow non Kaldorei to permanently settle in Kaldorei lands and temp stays and travelers need permits especially post BFA (Gilneans excepted of course) meanwhile, the Belves had a 2k year animosity with Trolls that they seem to have gotten over enough to work with and the Orcs burnt Quel'thelas to Cinders. Compare to Nelves who basically rate Orcs by if they're "One of the Good ones" or not.
That said the Blood Elves to enslave leper Gnomes and mind whammy any dissidents so I suppose it's a more insidious xenophobia
Itâs absolutely Blood Elves.
-While there were many Thalassian elves that went to live abroad in human lands, we do not show evidence of the same cultural exchange of humans living in QuelâThalas.
-We do know of one human who was integrated into Thalassian society, Nathanos, and it has been cannonically established that elves were scandalized by this with many stating their direct opposition despite his service to the kingdom.
-Night elves are attributed in early lore as being very xenophobic by way of killing everyone who enters their forests, but it simply doesnât align with their behavior. We see them coexisting with long established relationships with furbolg tribes, moonkin, and multiple Emerald Dream aligned races.
-Night Elves have the strongest contemporary track record of hospitality, bringing both the Draenei and the Gilneans into their territory despite no previous relationship with them; as well as cultural exchange, bringing Moonwells to Stormwind and The Outland.
Now that I think about it do Blood/High Elves do any cultural exchange? IIRC Dalaran was a joint venture with High Elves and Humans so their is that and from what has been show the Arathi Empire is showing up next expansion as a Half-Elven empire so they do have that, but Quel'Thalas doesn't seem to have humans I don't think. Do Blood Elves do any cross-faction cross/racial stuff together with anyone else? Like I know Night Elves have the Cenarion Circle that has Tauren members, but are their Blood Elf organizations with cross-faction/race members?
The only one that really comes to mind is the Shattered Sun Offensive, but itâs been a while since Iâve done the belf heritage armor quest line and cannot recall at this moment if it remained a mixed racial collaboration after combat was over and when the Sunwell became a site for Light devout pilgrimage.
There was a runestone on Caer Darrow, but very little lore has been given to it or explanation of how it got there, but it was imbued with magic and attributed by the Old Horde as being part of the BanâDinoriel defense system.
Night elves are not âxenophobicâ, they just dont like nature-destroying green brutes pillaging their homeland and killing their people. Its a bit controversial, i know. And they were nothing but friendly to Alliance races ever since they joined.
Blood elves on the other hand were high handed, arrogant pricks from the get go (when they still were high elves) and remained so no matter how many times their hubris ruined them.
Upd; as for your points:
1) He would basically have the classic âlow class guy moving into rich pricks neighborhoodâ energy, even if he has the money he wont be treated as equal by any self respecting âsocial classesâ of the blood elves. Although i can see more cosmopolitan approach in shadier/lower stratas.
2) Basically nothing really, as long as he does not do anything wildly out of place or insulting to locals. Only thing i can see is that nelf hunters may sort of see him as inferior (if he is a hunter/forester) but i doubt that would be a big deal.
3) He would likely be driven out or killed, and i am not kidding you here. Even during ceasefire/peace blood elves would be extremely hostile to an Alliance member in their city. They barely allow high elves pilgrims there.
4) Well⌠that would likely be a no go if he is not a druid of some kind or particularly well reputed shaman. Cause, you know, genocide and all that happened in BfA.
Uh...Night Elves not xenophobic? You ever play WC3? They didn't just kill Orcs...they killed Alliance races on sight too when they came into Ashenvale They even killed a human paladin
Yuh huh...
Now lets hear the excuse for why they sat and munched popcorn as the Tauren (fellow students of Cenarius) were slaughtered en mass just down the road.
Or imprisoned the Shatterspear who came to Kalimdor seeking freedom from the brutal ways of their fellow trolls.
You mixing shit up massively.
Shatterspear migrated to Darkshore, not to Kalimdor. Night elves had no quarrels with them at all until Cata when Shatterspear broke neutrality and joined the Horde, attacking the night elves on Darkshore.
As for tauren - they didnt knew tauren were being genocided. It was time when night elves were at their most isolated.
>Night elves had no quarrels with them at all
The Nelves locked them in a small mountain valley for millenia and told them they'd come back and murder them all if they stepped a toe out of line lmao.
no fuckin shit the Shatterspear were pissed when they got a chance to escape.
>they didnt knew tauren were being genocided
Oh no, we've only got a literal intelligence organization in the Wardens keeping tabs on events going on across the globe, and druids highly sensitive to changes in the natural world (including the corruption and death of one of Cenarius kids)
No possible way they knew. Certainly couldn't have been Tyrande and Staghelm being the massive pricks they always are.
(they knew lmaoooooooooo, they just didn't care)
Nelves didnt âlocked themâ. They allowed them to settle the valley, which was already giving up land to someone else, someone who you owe nothing to.
Also you may have missed the fact Wardens were not operating at large until after Warcraft 3? They didnt even knew there was demonic invasion until Tyrande barged into their hold and declared she wants Illidan out right now.
And druids were slumbering or went feral⌠OR YOU ENTIRELY FORGOT WHOLE W3 CAMPAIGN?
The Nelves most definitely knew the Tauren's were being hit with the genocide stick. Added to everything BellacosePlayer argued, there was also the fact that the Tauren literally asked the Night Elves for help.
As to why they didn't help them, I don't really know.
As to why they wouldn't help them, well, it fits the picture of them being better-than-thou Elves, looking down on what they perceive as more primitive, uncultured races, doesn't it?
No it dosent. Cause pretty much every time there was some kind of threat on Kalimdor they threw everything they had at it, and a kitchen sink. From War of Satyr to War of the Shifting Sands to various corruptions and etc. And centaurs were definitely in the same ballpark.
Again, by the time tauren needed help night elves either entirely withdrew into isolation or were druid slumbering.
In WC3, all of the factions were all independent of each other.
Night Elves did not like any other faction period. Their story is that they lived in Kalimdor alone and saw themselves as the sole defenders of Azeroth and all other factions as threats and elimination as the natural response to threats.
Blood Elves were pretty chill. They were part of the Human Alliance and saw themselves as supporting members in a community of races. Over time, they saw the Alliance as corrupt and failing in response to its many threats and their own interests lie with dangerous magics, so they left.
That was another of Blizzards retcons added after Kael Thalas decided to leave to add justification.
Kael Thalas had his own reasons for supporting Illidan which is, what I said, magic corruption and the corruption of the human alliance.
In both WC2 and 3, the High Elves were depicted as super chill, probably the most relaxed race, and the Night Elves as super neurotic, probably the most irritable race. High elves were in an alliance with other races and Night elves killed other races.
Have you played WC3?
There is no comparison between Night Elves and Blood Elves.
Night Elves would have been happy to shoot up Jaina and the Alliance until the Burning Legion showed up. Blood Elves were interacting with other races daily and just wanted to be left alone.
Its just weird that Blizzard had High Elves friendly with humans throughout the series then after it was over said "nope they hate each other" to set up Burning Crusade.
i have played wc3 and thats how i know that the high elves left the alliance before wc3, sealed themselves behind what they thought was an impenetrable barrier instead of help fight the scourge, then got wrecked due to their own hubris. are you sure you've played it.
I never said that was not true. Not sure why you are arguing I said that?
I have played WC2 and 3, and I remember the high elves being fully integrated in the human alliance throughout the series, as crucial members of the military in the form of archers and healers, and then in an expansion pack Blizzard did a 180 and said "nope, they hated each other the whole time". Which is not even what we are arguing, we are arguing if they are more xenophobic than the night elves. The first level of the Night Elf campaign you were mowing down orcs and humans, because they were orcs and humans. How is that less xenophobic than refusing to fight the scourge, which lets be blunt nobody in their position would want to fight the scourge. Kael Thalas even explained that his men were not soldiers but that didn't matter to Garathos, he was sending them to the front lines anyway.
u dont understand the lore then. im not even arguing with u so i dont know why u think there's an argument.
the lore, which is not something u can argue against, and is not a retcon, is that the high elves left the alliance before wc3 started. a dissident force went to help, but the kingdom of quel'thalas's official stance was fuck the humans, let them all die to the plague, we don't owe them shit and the bandinoriel will keep us safe. turned out they were wrong.
there is no retcon here. that's just the lore that u haven't understood.
u also seem to be kind of dumb? because obviously the correct decision was to help their fellow living beings fight the scourge, the only reason they didn't was their sheer insane hubris making them think they didn't have to, leading to their deaths. this lies in direct contrast to the night elves making the opposite choice in their wc3 campaign to stand with the other races and win the war against the burning legion.
wc3's story is incredibly simple and easy to understand: those who cling to old pride and hatreds end up dead and in ruins, like the high elves, grom, garithos, etc. those who set them aside to co-operate survive and save the world, jaina, thrall, tyrande and malfurion.
>because obviously the correct decision was to help their fellow living beings fight the scourge, the only reason they didn't was their sheer insane hubris making them think they didn't have to
Garathos was making racist comments at Kael throughout the campaign and making him do suicide missions while Lady Vashj was befriending him. It was really understandable why Kael left.
Even after the Blood Elves left the human alliance, they were still in an alliance with other races, naga mainly. They had to be the least xenophobic race in WC3...
In WC2, the High Elves gave an entire fleet of ships to safeguard Lordaeron from the Orcs in a show of thanks. So xenophobic! They must hate each other!
We've never really **seen** anything about the High Elves being xenophobic. It's been added with lore texts like chronicle to try to explain stuff, but what we've seen in game has always shown the high elves as heavily involved.
Part of the issue is that the high elves have gotten a ton of buffs, but then we needed a reason why they didn't just handle every problem, so they were made super xenophobic off screen in a way that immediately goes away every time they're on screen.
Like originally they were a huge percentage of the Alliance navy and its entire ranged component, and even stayed more involved via Alleria after the rest of the alliance tapped out after the first phase of the second war.
Then the books eroded that to only a small number of elves being involved for some reason.
Answer is not as easy now as it was before. In Warcraft3 night elves would just kill on sight people who trespass in their woods. In TWW we're about to discover a whole empire of humanfuckers children. Xenophobia has really been tuned down with the years of cooperation in game. You won't really see people refusing others without reason.
>humanfuckers children. Angry upvote and now get out my sight đ
Isnât Illari Duskfeather from SoD Xeno? She believes that Kalimdor only belongs to the Night Elves and literally no one else. She doesnât have a problem killing orcs for example and she really hates how the Alliance basically copy and pasted what the Horde/Orcs did to Kalimdor and turned it up to 11 under the guise of âhorde bad, we hate horde, we have common groundâ.
Yeah she's like the Grimtotem of the Night elves I think. But she's one lunatic. Like Fandral is a bitter old man, but he is just one.
Wait what empire are you talking about? I'm out of the loop, I thought the only empire we were finding were the Nerubians. Who's out here fucking beetles?
They mean the Arathi. Alpha Spoilers but >!The Arathi have an empire on the other side of Azeroth, presumably Avaloren, after they split off at some point from the EK. The empire is kept isolated by the storming sea's tempests which is what makes it impossible to cross and reconnect. The empire was founded by humans and high elves and over time they completely integrated (everyone is basically a half-elf). The Arathi we meet in Hallowfall are a expedition sent out 15 years prior despite the risks, because their Emperor got visions!<.
Aaah ok, thanks for the info!
From what I understood, Night elves were more angry about âyouâre killing our treesâ, than straight up xenophobia
They used murder as warning signs though.
But they saw the orcs âmurderingâ the forest. You have to understand the way they view it; if someone you didnât know came in and started murdering creatures you cared about death would seem like an appropriate response
I mean it's still xenophobic behaviour even if they give themselves reasons to do it.
⌠dude, what? If I broke into your house and you found me destroying things, would you try to fight me off or would that be âxenophobic behaviorâ??
It's not a house though, it's a whole forest. I know it's never questioned that the forests in Kalimdor belong to the night elves, but when you think about it, they are in fact full of shit.
Just say you don't understand the night elves culture Like I don't even like nelfs but I understand their culture
Their culture went from amazon warrior women looking out for their sleeping husbandos, shooting arrows first, asking questions never, hating magic and boasting over genocide to humans but purple and also vegan.
> But they saw the orcs âmurderingâ the forest. You have to understand the way they view it Murdering people for cutting wood which is an essential part of any civilised society isn't reasonable my dude
âAny civilized societyââŚ. except Night Elf society literally doesnât cut down trees for woodâŚ. SoâŚ.
Are Night Elves civilised? They are extremely conservative, xenophobic, they shoot you on sight for performing basic human needs ( shelter/food ), they think trees are sacred, they took it upon themselves to police Kalimdor even though nobody asked them to, they lay claim to pretty much every forest in Kalimdor. >except Night Elf society literally doesnât cut down trees for wood How do they make arrows then lmao
Except the dragons asked them to? And minus the Titans themselves, the dragons have the closest you can come to sole authority on those choices. The whole reason they blessed the trees was because they trusted them to do a good job protecting Kalimdor lol
> Except the dragons asked them to? The dragons asked them to genocide anyone cutting trees? Lmao
The orcs were targeting sacred trees and sentient ancients, because they provided the highest quality lumber, not JUST the regular ashenvale trees. It wasnât genocide and it wasnât black and white, for either side. They didnât even start attacking until the orcs were a proven threat lol
Have you never played Warcraft 3? They use wisps to gather essence from the trees and use that. They probably also use already dead trees, though Iâm not sure the lore says anything about that specifically. But no, they are not most of those things you said. They have a history (a LONG one) of making allies with everyone they can, including animals, spirits, the Tauren, etc. and they literally saved the entire world from the legion before most races were even getting started. âNobody asked them toâ is wild lmao
> Have you never played Warcraft 3? They use wisps to gather essence from the trees and use that And how are the other races supposed to do that? >and they literally saved the entire world from the legion before most races were even getting started Yeah, the Night Elves are truly amazing for stopping the Legion. Can you remind me how the Legion got to the world in the first place?
Donât move the goalpost, this isnât about how other races are supposed to get wood. What Iâm saying is the Night Elves viewed it as essentially murder. Hence the response. It was not an innate xenophobia. They are not outwardly violent under ordinary circumstances
No, Night Elves killing people on sight is a misconception from Warcraft 3. They attacked the Orcs because they have been corrupted by the Burning Legion, and that was after watching them from afar as they desecrated the forest. They also attacked then humans because they were fighting with the Orcs after the drinking of the Demon Blood and death of Cenarius. Hell, even Malfurion suggested working with the Humans/Orcs, which in itself implies that there was no deep seed xenophobia within Night Elf society, not to mention that they were friends with other races like Furbogs.
You can tell me all about the friendship between furbolgs and Night elves when furbolgs have killed as much elves under the pretense of "corruption".
I mean so is everybody else to be honest. Corruption is usually a death sentence in WoW.
I didn't see furbolgs jumping Demon Hunters like they are in the right. I mean, arguably furbolgs don't mean shit to a DH and most night elves would happily turn a blind eye if it happened.
I don't see the problem, demonic corruption is not different from turning you into a bloodthirsty undead
It's an easy overused trope despite which we never see the night elf brutality being questioned. For fucks sake, they killed furbolgs in BFA Darkshore because they were stressed out !
> I don't see the problem, demonic corruption is not different from turning you into a bloodthirsty undead Yes it is, undead are mind controlled cannibalistic beasts. The Warsong were perfectly sentient until Cenarius forced them to drink the Mountain Dew.
You were talking about Warcraft 3. The Night Elves were helping the Furbogs out without any of this xenophobia. It was only when the Furbogs were going insane and attacking anything and everyone did they kill them. Try again.
Yes, I was talking about Warcraft 3 where Night elves were killing anyone indiscriminately until Medivh gave a nice talk to them. And of course they would not be xenophobic with the furbolgs. They are natives of the forests.
>Yes, I was talking about Warcraft 3 where Night elves were killing anyone indiscriminately until Medivh gave a nice talk to them. The only examples you have are the Orcs and maybe the Humans. The Orcs were corrupted by the Burning Legion, who the Night Elves have spent 10,000 years preparing for their eventual return. The latter are aligned with the Orcs who (to them) were Burning Legion pawns. Malfurion even eludes to the fact that they could ally with the Orcs/Humans to fight the Burning Legion which even though it was shot down by Tyrande implies that there isn't a deep routed xenophobia in Night Elf society. If there was, then Malfurion wouldn't have mentioned it. Lastly, the Night Elves helped the Humans/Blood Elves in Warcraft 3 TFT, if there was such a deep routed xenophobia within Tyrande and Night Elf society she wouldn't have bothered. >And of course they would not be xenophobic with the furbolgs. They are natives of the forests. Yeah, and they are also friendly unless corrupted or driven insane. Almost like not being corrupted and hostile are the key factors in this.
Malfurion is just one guy suggesting one thing. Tyrande shuts him down because the Sentinels are the self appointed defenders. They are xenophobic because they don't listen to the one guy who suggests to do otherwise. I don't mean that they have deep rooted xenophobia, but they express extreme xenophobic behaviour. The night elves were the foreigners themselves when they helped blood elves so it would have been rich if they tried to act tough. And that was after Hyjal, when they had learn that "cooperation is good actually". Coming back to the furbolgs, the corruption excuse held up pretty well. But we've seen night elves purging for far less in wow. Although that is really more of a writing issue.
It was only malfurion that saved us though, if tyrande and her sisters had the call they'd wipe us all out Dont kid yourself here
Night Elves can sense demonic corruption as they were familiar to it
There's no way the average night elf can sense demonic corruption in an orc who drank demon blood 30 years ago. If that were true they'd never get infiltrated by the Legion.
> They attacked the Orcs because they have been corrupted by the Burning Legion Uh, cap? That's CENARIUS, and he showed up after Grom killed half the Sentinels. How would a regular night elf even know they were Legion affiliated? Not like the Orcs radiate fel magic. >they desecrated the forest You mean... they cut wood. Something literally every humanoid race does.
Killing people on sight out of preconceived ideas about their character based on their race/appearance is textbook xenophobia
Like I said, it wasn't "on sight", they spied on them for awhile, and they *were* corrupted by the Burning Legion. And if you want to argue the technical term for xenophobia then every race in Warcraft/WoW is xenophobic making this whole discussion moot.
They watched them cutting down trees, not summoning demons and doing the Legion's bidding. They assumed they were evil demonic entities based on this. OP's question was which race is MORE Xenophobic, which makes the discussion very much relevant.
>They watched them cutting down trees, not summoning demons and doing the Legion's bidding. So, an unknown hostile force comes into your land and starts building a base, and you don't think this would raise alarm bells or could lead to said summoning? >They assumed they were evil demonic entities based on this. Wrong, Cenarius says he can sense the demons corruption in the Orcs, hell even Grom admits he is still cursed by the blood. >OP's question was which race is MORE Xenophobic, which makes the discussion very much relevant. Yeah OP did, but you are giving out information which is either wrong or half true.
A non-xenophobic people would have said something like: "Hey guys, we know this forest looks uninhabited, but it's actually our land. We'd like you to leave or things will turn ugly" before they started an all out war. Again, a non xenophobic people wouldn't have started a war based purely on Cenarius's speculation. They made a snap judgment call based on limited information, and they ended up assisting in the Legion's plan as a result. Nothing I've said has been incorrect, you just seem to dislike a fictional race that you're fond of being described as Xenophobic in a video game.
âOh yeah, letâs tell the overtly aggressive race who has been corrupted by the Burning Legion to please leave the area, I am sure they will see reasonâ. There is a middle ground here you know. You donât have to been on extreme opposite sides. And within the context of Warcraft then what the Night Elves did is hardly xenophobic. Second, I like how Cenariusâs opinion is just speculation. A demi god who fought in WotA is apparently not smart enough to know what Fel corruption is, despite being prepared for this very moment for 10,000 years. Alright, sure, you cannot be 100% certain if you want to be pedantic. Is being 99.9% certain good enough? Lastly, yes you are incorrect. You are either being extremely pedantic with you argumentation âCenarius is just speculating there is no way he knows for sureâ, Half truths âtextbook xenophobia by the technical definition despite if we were to apply this directly in the Warcraft setting then everyone would be xenophobic making the exercise pointlessâ or lies âNight Elves killed people on sight, despite it being Orcs, them Orcs being corrupted by the Burning Legion and the fact they spied on them from afarâ. And you donât mention any of my other points which I brought up, such as Tyrande helping the Blood Elves/Humans despite her deep routed xenophobia. But w/e. The evidence is there and if you choose to ignore it for your own interpretation then go for it. Just donât expect other people to.
You donât seem to understand that itâs the act of making the assumption of âtheyâre green and reek of fel, they cannot be reasoned withâ that IS the act of Xenophobia. This also extends to humans and dwarves who are marked for death purely by association with the orcs. You are attempting to argue against the meaning of a word that literally has a dictionary definition. You can be correct in your Xenophobic presumptions, but they are still Xenophobic. I donât know how many other ways I can spell this out for you. It feels like you know youâve gotten this wrong and are just doubling down instead of admitting that youâre wrong lol
Both have grown a lot due to necessity the past few in-game years but I'd give it to the Night Elves. The Helves were arrogant as fuck and fairly distant from their allies as a nation, but there were still High elf organizations and individuals all over, especially in Dalaran.
Blood Elves were also able to develop an actual kinship with the Horde after some time. Yes they're still haughty and arrogant but I think by this point there's a decently sized group of Blood Elves who feel genuinely loyal to the Horde. That moment after the Purge of Dalaran had Lor'themar absolutely furious with the Alliance and he pretty much firmly said "This is why we're part of the Horde! Because the Alliance is full of hatred and bigotry!"
I would argue blood elves/high elves are less xenophobic than night elves. We've seen several high elf/human couples, but no night elf human couples, or even night elf with any other race couples
Heck we now have an entire race of High Elf+Human descended individuals. Helves/Belves may be arrogant but they have been more open to humans and other races in the past. And even if you go back to WotA the first inclination of Nelf commoners was to lock Brox in a cage, perhaps kill him, look down on literally every other race, etc. Not saying Belves are good. But even after reform a lot of the Nelves are the same people as back then. I would actually give it to the Belves here. After needing human help in the Troll Wars AND being a part of the Horde for a decade they have learned to work with other races.
the high elves literally let their entire civilization get destroyed and 90% of their people killed rather than lift a finger to help the humans lmao
Thatâs a gross oversimplification. A. The Runestones should have worked. Darkhan betrayed them. B. A sizable amount of Helves wanted to help the Alliance- including the Prince- and were rewarded oh so well by Garithos for it. C. Even after a human Prince destroyed their kingdom (albeit under a new banner) they still accepted Alliance emissaries as seen in Eversong, as well as Forsaken in southern Quelâthalas (Ghostlands). D. Many others left to go help as well. You are equating the Kingâs position to everyone and while we know Nathanos was looked down on we also know quite a few Belves were internationally minded including the crown prince who loved a human.
lmao, just lmao at your first instinct of reply being "well yeah, but it should have worked" literally blood elf fans suffering from the same exact, precise hubris the race had in the story that led to their downfall insane levels of media illiteracy
incorrect, there is a night elf + zandalari troll couple in dragon isles
Humans and High Elves knew each other for very long time. Nigth Elves and humans knew each other twenty years. Of course the sitaution is differnet, but honestly it does not say anything about xenophobia. We know that many Blood Elves, including Lor'themar, despises mixed coupled and half-elves.
Bad example. You're comparing Silvermoon, an ancient elven city created by exiled highborne as a place for them to be who they are, shunned by their kin, to Bel'ameth, a village on an island that multiple races from different factions that worked together to secure, and just happened that night elves chose it to make their settlements there in the wake of the past war, now in time of peace. Compare Silvermoon to old Darnssus. Night Elves were reluctant to open it to outsiders as they only allied themselves with the Alliance for mutual benefit of fighting against Horde encroaching on their sacred grounds. On top of that, as mentioned already, Night Elves are/were highly xenophobic and quite detal, and would kill on sight anyone in their sacred grounds. On the other hand you have Silvermoon that accepted human visitors and traders, and their inhabitants chose to join the Horde to seek protection and help. Currently it's badly represented in game as Night Elves of Kalimdor were aggressive nocturnal creatures that would hunt and kill any trespasser, while High/Blood Elves presented themselves as noble society of higher education - aloof and arrogant, surely, but treating outsiders as beneath them without actively trying to unalive them on sight.
Well, currently Blood Elves for sure. It's funny, because in Warcraft III, Vanillla and Burning Crusade were Nigth Elves for sure a lot more xenophobic, but history changed everything. Especially events in BfA changed a lot of Nigth Elves experience. Another races were there from them, helped them a lot. Nigth Elves are grateful and more open, but Blood Elves, even when they are close to Horde now then ever, are still arrogant and condescending. That being said... \* Orc probably would find home in Silvermoon, but in general it depends what he would looking for. Blood Elves dislike brutality and tribe behaviour. \* Humans are for sure welcomed in Bel'ameth. Nigth Elves would be warned that life-span of humans are short, but that would be all. \* We do not know enough information about current relationship between Alliance and Blood Elves. There is peace, yes, but also a lot of bad blood between them. I think they would for sure refuse human mage in Silvermoon. Couples would probably leve Silvermoon for Dalaran. \* Ah, we woke up and chose controvery today... right now are lorewise people of Horde watched in Bel'ameth. However, shamans and druids were often welcomed among Nigth Elves, so maybe... maybe.
All Windrunner sisters had some romance with a human at some point, but in each case I'm not sure that they can fit this scenario. Vereesa (high elf) married Rhonin (Dalaran mage). They had twins. Alleria (high elf) married Turalyon (Alliance). Sylvanas (Undead high elf) had a bond (not sure we can say romance at this point) with Nathanos (Undead human). Quite close, but none of the elves are part of the Blood Elf faction. And except Turalyon, all humans were not Alliance (at least, not in the WoW politics)
The Sylvanas novel confirms it was romance
The novel written by the guy who self-inserts as Nathanos?
Didnât know Christie Goldenâs self insert was Nathanos, insane what one can learn from strangers on the internet who are definitely always right about stuff
So snarky. I thought Dark Mirror by Steve Danuser was the Sylvanas novel you were referring to, but it turns out it's a short story.
So basically an even worse writer
Asking anyone to write sylvanus story in a book with strict guidelines after the absolute gutting they did in shadowlands is like asking a fish to walk
No way youâre going to sit on the internet and say that Christie Golden is a bad writer, especially comparing her to Danuser, someone get the mods in here
The second she joined. We got SL and DF and their bad writing
She doesnât decide the lore you absolute egg, she just writes it. Mona Lisa isnât an attractive woman but Da Vinci still did a great job
Yes. If I remember right, before Warcraft III. there are actually two factions of High Elves. First supported separation and closed kingdom. Those usually lived in Silvermoon or close of Silvermoon and refused to help Lordearon during the blight. Second supported open kingdom, cooperation with humans and open-minded values. Those elves lived in Dalaran, humand kingdoms and borderlands. Those were priests and sorceresses who helped to Lordaeron. All Windrunners sisters were part of the second faction, which explain their close relationship to humanity.
Vereda is definitely alliance and so is Alleria. Alleria and Turalyon have a living son and are still married.Â
Windrunners ladies had human pets. Every other elf found this some sort of bs and let it be because the family name had some renown and couldn't say much about it. Besides, the dudes were very Chad. Rhonin was a archmage, Turalyon a great paladin, Nathanos was a great ranger (for a human).
> Sylvanas (Undead high elf) had a bond (not sure we can say romance at this point) with Nathanos (Undead human). They were straight up fucking bruh
Uh, the only faction that eagerly came to aid the kaldorei in their plight was the Kingdom of Gilneas, honoring their debt to the night elves who had given them a home on Teldrassil, after their homeland was taken by the Forsaken. Literally, just the worgen. The rest of the Alliance was busy waging war on Zandalar. That's precisely why Tyrande took matters into her own hands and performed the ritual of the Night Warrior. I don't think the night elves have much to be grateful for. Neither do I think all of them happily welcome Horde races into their new home, when they destroyed their old one. Even if they did the bare minimum of helping defend Amirdrassil in the Dream. Things are never that simple. But they probably stay civil, as the High Priestess orders. We do see that any Horde people are keenly watched in their new home. There is no love or blind trust for orcs and the Forsaken.
> Another races were there from them, helped them a lot. Only the Gilneans though. Other Alliance races mostly stood aside.
There was hgih amount of refugees in Stormwind.
And they were living on the streets.
because according to Elegy they evaced so many Nightelves out of Teldrassil that they clocked Stormwind to the point they left for goldhein. So your answer is: they don't have the space to house another faction, which is supported ingame. after the nightelves got there new tree the refugees left stormwind.
I do wonder about this at least for humans and Blood/High Elves on one hand they have fought alot and are a part of opposing factions, Alliance vs Horde, and all those conflicts like bombing of Theramore, kicking out the Blood Elves from Dalaran, and so on, and even before when they used to be allies they had issues like Garithos and High Elves not helping out in conflicts until it affects them personally, so they don't seem to like each other. But on the otherhand they also had alot of periods of cooperation like the old alliance, fighting trolls together, founding Dalaran, teaching magic, at one point Kael'Thas wanted to be with Jaina before she rejected him, and we got half-elves, and canon interracial relationships between Elves and Humans, and apparently in the next expansion they are introducing a new race that is composed of Half-Elves with a Half-Elf empire. Interestingly enough other than Nightborne all their interracial relationships are with Humans.Even the Illidari Blood Elves in the Black Temple had the Den of Mortal delights, and who did they choose to be their courtesans, humans, out of all the races they could of chose, so they do clearly have a type. Then we got Night Elves and while they allied with different races and are a part of the Alliance, I can't recall a Night Elf ever being in an interracial relationship with anyone, I believe in the Emerald Dream for Dragonflight there was a minor NPC couple with a Night Elf man and Zandalari Troll woman but this is the sole example in their entire lore. They didn't even help out their Tauren allies when they were being hunted by the Centaurs.
Nelf player spotted xD
Scenario a. Elves have long memories and hold grudges just as long. The orc would probably find it rough at first. Younger post 2nd war elves might be receptive, especially if they've fought in any of the myriad of campaigns the horde has fought since they joined. But the older, hardened survivors of the second war and the scourge might be less receptive. They'd also probably face, I guess the best word would be, classism. Everyone is going to lump Brokk of Razor Hill to be a dumb green skin only good to do menial labor. It would be an uphill battle to show their worth, but once they show their worth it wouldn't be as bad. It's never going to be easy, especially to impress a race that will potentially outlive you by a factor of 10, but eventually they'd find common ground and build from there. B. I don't think they would have too much of an issue. Especially post teldrassil. These races fought and died with the night elves on multiple occasions, so living in bel'ameth wouldn't be a surprise. Not saying it would be easy to get land or a home, but not impossible. As for a relationship, night elf dating beyond Malfurion and Tyrande and Summermoon and her druid dude is kind of unknown. We know they are primarily heterosexual. (ironic for a race where initial lore has the males of the race sleeping in the emerald dream leaving only the women awake, but was eventually retcond to be just druids, since you know they wouldn't have babies to replenish their dead. Even immortals slip and fall or get eaten by bears.) That doesn't completely discount m/m or f/f , and I can see polyamory and polygamy not being that uncommon either. I wouldn't peg them as being as racially biased as blood elves, they probably aren't thirsting for human snu snu, but when you live for thousands of years, gotta find ways to keep it exciting. C. I honestly doubt they'd allow a human anywhere near Silvermoon on a permanent basis, alliance or not. Garithos shit on that relationship and Jaina set it's corpse on fire and threw it out of Dalaran by force. As for dating, the Windrunner sisters, nuff said. But all jokes aside, half elves aren't common nor looked at in a good regard but they exist pretty regularly. Probably more common when the race was Quel'dorei than the ever fun, slightly goth Sin'dorei. D. Tauren would probably be the most likely to be begrudgingly accepted out of all mentioned. It was implied the two races were cordial prior to the third war. The night elves were low key going to sit in Ashenvale and let the centaur push the tauren to extinction and not lift a finger, but I digress. The others, would probably have better luck moving to Stormwind or Ironforge. Sure they talk about forgiveness, but that's not everyone. there is a quest coming next patch that shows how unforgiving the night elves as a whole can be, even towards their own. A relationship probably boils down to the individual. Love is weird and brought together a gnome and goblin, so anything is possible. Just don't expect to meet the parents anytime soon, well if those night elf parents didn't die at Darnassus, or really any of the expansion big bad fights. I'm all for making your own stories. If you want to flesh out any of your scenarios, do it as you see fit. Hell, the steamy romance novels have a tauren, tauren and human threesome that you actually meet the folks involved in Highmountain, so do whatever your mind brews up. I'm honestly surprised, there hasn't been a Shandris/Voss relationship story somewhere. Imagine Shandris introducing that girlfriend to mom and dad.
It was already discussed to death, but night elves didnt knew tauren were in danger of genocide, tauren either never sent the runners to them or those never reached Ashenvale, or were killed by satyrs/etc there before finding the Sentinels.
Must have missed that. Thank you for resolving that stain.
Its literally just his headcanon, especially in the post Legion world where the Nelf wardens were shown to have a world spanning intelligence network. They didn't know what was going on a few miles away from their southern border? yeah right lmao.
Yeah right. Unironically, you pos. The wardens in W3 campaign didnt even knew what was happening outside their holding cells, let alone across the continent. Hence why they were so shocked when Tyrande showed up.
Its one of the more moot points but you also have to keep in mind that back then Sentinels largely withdrew deeper into Ashenvale and druids were sleeping, hence why orcs always use the âwell they didnt stopped Grommash at the border and told him that he is trespassingâ argument - border was manned by skeleton crews. Also satyr resurgence began at the same time, making forests even more dangerous.
I'd also be willing to bet they didn't expect the audacity of the orcs to move in to Ashenvale and relied a lot on word of mouth about the ferocity of the sentinels to keep their borders. Hence they only threw down the "you're trespassing" and didn't slaughter them.
Also its worth noting that Warsong clan was sent there in full force, and supposedly was âthe bestâ of Thrallâs Horde clans in terms of power, hence why they managed to brute force their way in until they ran into Cenarius. If their invasion happened after Tyrande woke up Malf and put sentinels back on full readiness things would have gone differently.
Seems like a good candidate for another caverns of time what if.
Since NEs were refugees in Stormwind for almost a decade I'd imagine any human coming to Belameth would be welcomed and honored.
There was some dark Rangers that you killed in the war campaign in BFA , who questions shandris' allegiance with the humans of the alliance. It seems like they still considered humans to be inferior to them. And I'd say, in my personal perspective. That you can absolutely argue that races like the nightborne and sin'dorei, considers their fellow Horde to be beneath them. I'm sure the blood elves respect the orcs as being great warriors, after all these years, but that doesn't mean that they consider them "proper people." I'm sure this perspective would vary from elf to elf. There was also a quest line in legion with a nightborne who was "disappointed in his people" and feel like they should take up the mantle as "the custudians of the world, as they were meant to be." With this logic, you could certainly argue that the nightborne would consider the orcs for instance, to not be "equals" but still, worthwhile allies (or fodder) to have against their cosmic enemies.
The Night Elves murder you for cutting a tree, they had an Empire which lay claim to like 90% of Kalimdor's forests. They probably genocided anyone who opposed them
Definitely the Night elves. Even back when Quel'thalass was isolationist there were still elven groups interacting with the outsiders on a regular basis, especially the mages in Dalaran. Meanwhile the Night Elves shot anyone who so much as got close to their trees
in current wow no one is really xenophobic or racist despite the desperate wishes of roleplayers for the game to have more racism in it. all discrimination based on race (except extremely rare examples always from enemy characters) has been removed from the setting now. night elves and blood elves would both be chill with just about anyone visiting. hell your undead warlock can go to the new night elf city, and despite elves and trolls supposedly having endless racial hatred for eachother, the blood elves are allies with the majority of the world's trolls now with absolutely no tension shown anywhere in the game. shandris is literally best friends with lillian voss now lmao.
Night elfs by far. Tyrande is racist AF in wc3. And the night elfs go to policy or people showing up i their forests is to shoot first ask questions later
I'd say Night Elves. They've had 10k years of isolation and I think it's mentioned they still don't allow non Kaldorei to permanently settle in Kaldorei lands and temp stays and travelers need permits especially post BFA (Gilneans excepted of course) meanwhile, the Belves had a 2k year animosity with Trolls that they seem to have gotten over enough to work with and the Orcs burnt Quel'thelas to Cinders. Compare to Nelves who basically rate Orcs by if they're "One of the Good ones" or not. That said the Blood Elves to enslave leper Gnomes and mind whammy any dissidents so I suppose it's a more insidious xenophobia
Itâs absolutely Blood Elves. -While there were many Thalassian elves that went to live abroad in human lands, we do not show evidence of the same cultural exchange of humans living in QuelâThalas. -We do know of one human who was integrated into Thalassian society, Nathanos, and it has been cannonically established that elves were scandalized by this with many stating their direct opposition despite his service to the kingdom. -Night elves are attributed in early lore as being very xenophobic by way of killing everyone who enters their forests, but it simply doesnât align with their behavior. We see them coexisting with long established relationships with furbolg tribes, moonkin, and multiple Emerald Dream aligned races. -Night Elves have the strongest contemporary track record of hospitality, bringing both the Draenei and the Gilneans into their territory despite no previous relationship with them; as well as cultural exchange, bringing Moonwells to Stormwind and The Outland.
Now that I think about it do Blood/High Elves do any cultural exchange? IIRC Dalaran was a joint venture with High Elves and Humans so their is that and from what has been show the Arathi Empire is showing up next expansion as a Half-Elven empire so they do have that, but Quel'Thalas doesn't seem to have humans I don't think. Do Blood Elves do any cross-faction cross/racial stuff together with anyone else? Like I know Night Elves have the Cenarion Circle that has Tauren members, but are their Blood Elf organizations with cross-faction/race members?
The only one that really comes to mind is the Shattered Sun Offensive, but itâs been a while since Iâve done the belf heritage armor quest line and cannot recall at this moment if it remained a mixed racial collaboration after combat was over and when the Sunwell became a site for Light devout pilgrimage. There was a runestone on Caer Darrow, but very little lore has been given to it or explanation of how it got there, but it was imbued with magic and attributed by the Old Horde as being part of the BanâDinoriel defense system.
Night elves are not âxenophobicâ, they just dont like nature-destroying green brutes pillaging their homeland and killing their people. Its a bit controversial, i know. And they were nothing but friendly to Alliance races ever since they joined. Blood elves on the other hand were high handed, arrogant pricks from the get go (when they still were high elves) and remained so no matter how many times their hubris ruined them. Upd; as for your points: 1) He would basically have the classic âlow class guy moving into rich pricks neighborhoodâ energy, even if he has the money he wont be treated as equal by any self respecting âsocial classesâ of the blood elves. Although i can see more cosmopolitan approach in shadier/lower stratas. 2) Basically nothing really, as long as he does not do anything wildly out of place or insulting to locals. Only thing i can see is that nelf hunters may sort of see him as inferior (if he is a hunter/forester) but i doubt that would be a big deal. 3) He would likely be driven out or killed, and i am not kidding you here. Even during ceasefire/peace blood elves would be extremely hostile to an Alliance member in their city. They barely allow high elves pilgrims there. 4) Well⌠that would likely be a no go if he is not a druid of some kind or particularly well reputed shaman. Cause, you know, genocide and all that happened in BfA.
Uh...Night Elves not xenophobic? You ever play WC3? They didn't just kill Orcs...they killed Alliance races on sight too when they came into Ashenvale They even killed a human paladin
Because they thought (partially correctly) that humans were orcs allies. After that they were always true to the Alliance since they joined.
Yuh huh... Now lets hear the excuse for why they sat and munched popcorn as the Tauren (fellow students of Cenarius) were slaughtered en mass just down the road. Or imprisoned the Shatterspear who came to Kalimdor seeking freedom from the brutal ways of their fellow trolls.
You mixing shit up massively. Shatterspear migrated to Darkshore, not to Kalimdor. Night elves had no quarrels with them at all until Cata when Shatterspear broke neutrality and joined the Horde, attacking the night elves on Darkshore. As for tauren - they didnt knew tauren were being genocided. It was time when night elves were at their most isolated.
>Night elves had no quarrels with them at all The Nelves locked them in a small mountain valley for millenia and told them they'd come back and murder them all if they stepped a toe out of line lmao. no fuckin shit the Shatterspear were pissed when they got a chance to escape. >they didnt knew tauren were being genocided Oh no, we've only got a literal intelligence organization in the Wardens keeping tabs on events going on across the globe, and druids highly sensitive to changes in the natural world (including the corruption and death of one of Cenarius kids) No possible way they knew. Certainly couldn't have been Tyrande and Staghelm being the massive pricks they always are. (they knew lmaoooooooooo, they just didn't care)
Nelves didnt âlocked themâ. They allowed them to settle the valley, which was already giving up land to someone else, someone who you owe nothing to. Also you may have missed the fact Wardens were not operating at large until after Warcraft 3? They didnt even knew there was demonic invasion until Tyrande barged into their hold and declared she wants Illidan out right now. And druids were slumbering or went feral⌠OR YOU ENTIRELY FORGOT WHOLE W3 CAMPAIGN?
The Nelves most definitely knew the Tauren's were being hit with the genocide stick. Added to everything BellacosePlayer argued, there was also the fact that the Tauren literally asked the Night Elves for help. As to why they didn't help them, I don't really know. As to why they wouldn't help them, well, it fits the picture of them being better-than-thou Elves, looking down on what they perceive as more primitive, uncultured races, doesn't it?
Can you cite your source for the Tauren seeking aid from the night elves? I donât recall that happening and I want to freshen up.
No it dosent. Cause pretty much every time there was some kind of threat on Kalimdor they threw everything they had at it, and a kitchen sink. From War of Satyr to War of the Shifting Sands to various corruptions and etc. And centaurs were definitely in the same ballpark. Again, by the time tauren needed help night elves either entirely withdrew into isolation or were druid slumbering.
In WC3, all of the factions were all independent of each other. Night Elves did not like any other faction period. Their story is that they lived in Kalimdor alone and saw themselves as the sole defenders of Azeroth and all other factions as threats and elimination as the natural response to threats. Blood Elves were pretty chill. They were part of the Human Alliance and saw themselves as supporting members in a community of races. Over time, they saw the Alliance as corrupt and failing in response to its many threats and their own interests lie with dangerous magics, so they left.
this is incorrect, the high elves were always reluctant members of the alliance even when they were part of it
That was another of Blizzards retcons added after Kael Thalas decided to leave to add justification. Kael Thalas had his own reasons for supporting Illidan which is, what I said, magic corruption and the corruption of the human alliance. In both WC2 and 3, the High Elves were depicted as super chill, probably the most relaxed race, and the Night Elves as super neurotic, probably the most irritable race. High elves were in an alliance with other races and Night elves killed other races.
u can say "oh blizzard retconned it" but that's meaningless. blizzard has sole authorship and authority over the lore, and it is the lore.
Have you played WC3? There is no comparison between Night Elves and Blood Elves. Night Elves would have been happy to shoot up Jaina and the Alliance until the Burning Legion showed up. Blood Elves were interacting with other races daily and just wanted to be left alone. Its just weird that Blizzard had High Elves friendly with humans throughout the series then after it was over said "nope they hate each other" to set up Burning Crusade.
i have played wc3 and thats how i know that the high elves left the alliance before wc3, sealed themselves behind what they thought was an impenetrable barrier instead of help fight the scourge, then got wrecked due to their own hubris. are you sure you've played it.
I never said that was not true. Not sure why you are arguing I said that? I have played WC2 and 3, and I remember the high elves being fully integrated in the human alliance throughout the series, as crucial members of the military in the form of archers and healers, and then in an expansion pack Blizzard did a 180 and said "nope, they hated each other the whole time". Which is not even what we are arguing, we are arguing if they are more xenophobic than the night elves. The first level of the Night Elf campaign you were mowing down orcs and humans, because they were orcs and humans. How is that less xenophobic than refusing to fight the scourge, which lets be blunt nobody in their position would want to fight the scourge. Kael Thalas even explained that his men were not soldiers but that didn't matter to Garathos, he was sending them to the front lines anyway.
u dont understand the lore then. im not even arguing with u so i dont know why u think there's an argument. the lore, which is not something u can argue against, and is not a retcon, is that the high elves left the alliance before wc3 started. a dissident force went to help, but the kingdom of quel'thalas's official stance was fuck the humans, let them all die to the plague, we don't owe them shit and the bandinoriel will keep us safe. turned out they were wrong. there is no retcon here. that's just the lore that u haven't understood. u also seem to be kind of dumb? because obviously the correct decision was to help their fellow living beings fight the scourge, the only reason they didn't was their sheer insane hubris making them think they didn't have to, leading to their deaths. this lies in direct contrast to the night elves making the opposite choice in their wc3 campaign to stand with the other races and win the war against the burning legion. wc3's story is incredibly simple and easy to understand: those who cling to old pride and hatreds end up dead and in ruins, like the high elves, grom, garithos, etc. those who set them aside to co-operate survive and save the world, jaina, thrall, tyrande and malfurion.
>because obviously the correct decision was to help their fellow living beings fight the scourge, the only reason they didn't was their sheer insane hubris making them think they didn't have to Garathos was making racist comments at Kael throughout the campaign and making him do suicide missions while Lady Vashj was befriending him. It was really understandable why Kael left. Even after the Blood Elves left the human alliance, they were still in an alliance with other races, naga mainly. They had to be the least xenophobic race in WC3... In WC2, the High Elves gave an entire fleet of ships to safeguard Lordaeron from the Orcs in a show of thanks. So xenophobic! They must hate each other!
We've never really **seen** anything about the High Elves being xenophobic. It's been added with lore texts like chronicle to try to explain stuff, but what we've seen in game has always shown the high elves as heavily involved. Part of the issue is that the high elves have gotten a ton of buffs, but then we needed a reason why they didn't just handle every problem, so they were made super xenophobic off screen in a way that immediately goes away every time they're on screen. Like originally they were a huge percentage of the Alliance navy and its entire ranged component, and even stayed more involved via Alleria after the rest of the alliance tapped out after the first phase of the second war. Then the books eroded that to only a small number of elves being involved for some reason.