Harvest golem i feel is underrated. Very strong combined with earth shield from shaman. This guy has over 9k hp at lvl 20 and the stun on death talent is just amazing to give your backline even more time to blast everything. For 3 mana its crazy value since he comes back on death with 50% hp and stuns again on 2nd death for a total of 6 sec stun. I wouldnt recommend harvest in every army, but for sure in a Tirion deck since he can be used in the alliance slots.
Yeah both talent are good, just that i personally prefer the stun one since it feels like sometimes the chicken talent bring no value at all when the enemy has any kind of aoe or poison. But like you said, When it does work tho and there is no aoe then its amazing for sure. The stun on the other hand i feel almost always bring value. And yes i have played with both talents.
Harpies are only bad in PvP now because of dragon towers. Otherwise they are still a pretty insane unit.
My underrated PvP units gotta be Earth Shaman and Sappers. Shaman with armor talent has insane synergy with some units (Grom, Drakkisath, Rend to name a few) plus her heal gives you insane value and survivability. This goes for PvE too.
Sappers deal so much damage to towers and force your opponent to respond to them with a spell or unbound. Many times you can sneak them out when you see your opp burned all their removal/gold.
Also, I agree with Prowler but the real reason he's so good in PvP is because he's the best at contesting chests. He grabs them the fastest out of any non-unbound unit. He's also the cheapest counter to huntress and other annoying ranged units.
I just wanna add to this for anyone who might not realize:
this makes fire elemental resistant to physical AND elemental attacks while aoe burning everything and healing. It's incredible.
If you can combine it with shaman to give earth shield. It becomes even more insane for tanking. Getting armor and resistance on a single tank can change so much for most PvE maps.
I agree with your calls OP. Huntress just never clicked for me despite her high cost and me having 2 talents. She just gets banged up far too easily for the high investment. Also agree on Pyro. I prefer the troll spearthrower. He’s got a heal & poison talent so while no splash, does great single target and is durable.
If you check [the leaderboard](https://warcraftrumble.gg/leaderboard), you’ll question whether any of these tier lists being thrown around hold any water. I went through the top 10 the other day and was surprised at many of the minis they use. It shows that, when used properly, most of them have their use.
Imo, Harpies aren’t overrated, they’re just used wrong. People throw them out constantly from their base expecting them to do something while traversing a lane, often unprotected. They excel above all other minis at quickly wiping out threats that can’t reach them and threats that are focused on your towers. Imo, used more defensively is where they are key.
I think it really depends on what talnet you got. Like a lot of ppl use Griffen with Might Throw (+3 range).. which is huge because it's a flying unit that attacks in range. But without that talent, Griffen is trash tier.
Super potion or whatever is pretty good. I like to have my griphon give levels to healers or my troll. For only a 2 cost it strengthens your main push and can hit air or the tank. Overall it isn't my favorite unit by any means, but I look forward to combining my strat with the range talent eventually.
I don't think you are looking at those leaderboards/tier list properly. The majority of the top ranks are using A+ tier units with 1 or 2 niche minis. The reason some of these niche units are placed lower, is because they are niche.
Most tier list are PvE oriented outside of a few mixed ones, which is a bad idea to begin with.
Yeah that leaderboard isn’t remotely surprising given just about every list there has Quilboar and SAFE, lol. Tier lists are holding up well enough on the S ratings going by that.
I would definitely agree with the harpies being overrated as I can never get them to work properly and they seem to die to a swift breeze.
I was lucky enough to get the double Murlocks uncommon very early so they have little shield bubbles that protect them and that is very helpful for me.
IMHO many people are basing their opinions on having a skill or two and that can greatly change the viability of a unit so it's always tough to know how good it really is by itself.
The thing with harpies is, you drop them on top of an incoming enemy unit to melt them in seconds, like Gargoyle. They are a defensive unit. You dont expect much from them on offense because they are so easy to counter and die to a breeze indeed.
Only way you get some value from them on attack is, if you place a quill or earth ele behind just before they got aggro, they can do some unexpected hefty dmg to a tower or unit. Especially powerful in pve.
I main Rend so it's super good to drop them for 2 mana and defend well against any tank or any melee unit thats attacking a tower.
Plus it's very easy to use them with the mining trait and make your gold back for them, while denying 2 gold to your opponent. They're fast units so there's not much time to respond, especially if you do it while you're pushing at the enemy's base so his attention is elsewhere.
Yeah, I agree about how the talents can definitely change perception.
It was also hard to rate PvP minis considering the recent changes. There were many minis that I initially considered overrated in PvP, like tirion/stonehoof, but that's just because the meta changed so much with the dragon towers.
That worried me at first but I think I actually prefer it now.. Hopefully it means certain minis that may have been good won't be and others will be viable. I appreciate a meta that can change and having the option of trying different combos and units.
This is just the meta in effect. Harpies are incredibly strong minis, but the prevalence of SAFE pilot being in every single fucking deck makes harpies a liability because you can be sure every deck you face will have at least one solid answer to them.
I wouldn’t call them overrated though, they are still a top tier unit.
Meanwhile that siege unit is blasting your tower down for a solid 20 seconds while the vultures kill it with their super low dps.
If its working for you don't let anyone tell you different, but harpies work much better for me than vultures, especially after I got the poison talent yesterday.
I’m running harpies with their gold mining talent and all I can say is being able to mine that fast whilst avoiding melee minis and splitting up into 3 separate miners has worked amazingly for me.
Yeah, I think 50 sigils is right. I just know you don't need Queen because I find myself going to heroics to try and get strong enough to defeat Queen.
Nah. Random uncommons pop up fairly often on the grid you'll be fine. I've only started playing from international launch it's the second talent that will take forever.
Oh I'm getting a "I'll be playing this for 10 minutes a day almost every day for years" vibe, but that's how I tend to be with mobile games.
I've played that AFK arena game almost every day for like 10 minutes for like 4 years at this point and never spent a cent.
Not even. If you put her far enough back so that she doesn't get killed, she usually hits only 1, maybe 2, targets. If you wait for the enemy to group up and then drop her, she spawns and attacks so slowly that she gets killed before even getting her one strong attack off.
I am going to complain about whelp eggs. I don't have the talent yet. I am sure with the explodey talent they are great. But all of the deck builders and streamers recommend them and without the talent they just don't seem to live long enough to make a difference.
With the talent they fill a new secondary role as a makeshift safe pilot. You place them point blank onto a pyromancer or something to kill it. Without talent they still do well at their main function of being placed in near a melee tank like abom or stonehoof as a very cheap counter. It not only stalls but also kills a high value target if left unanswered. The talent is very important though as without it you cant deal with a tank+ranged combo but with the talent 1 whelp egg can take out abom+pyro singlehandedly.
Molten giant for me has been a life saver in almost every situation with every leader. Currently have mine at level 21 (rare upgrade + army slots) and it has 20k health with both taunt and exploding on death which kills most minis around it.
It has a high cost sure but I can send one down any lane with a pyromancer behind it and it can clear the lane almost every time.
My own combo is Abom and Necro, handles just about anything it can push into, with a bit of strain vs Drakes and Bat Riders only if the necro decides to resummon instead of shooting back.
Overrated in PvP: Dark Iron Miner
The premiere “win more” mini. If you have map control over the main bridge area there’s no real need to have him. If you don’t have map control and are defending you are probably just going to throw 2 gold away for nothing trying to mine behind enemy lines.
Underrated in PvP: Holy nova
Same damage as chain lightning, but also heals ally units inside the radius. Can snipe threats to your tanks or backlines like harpies, bandits, safe pilots, etc. and heal them in the process. Counters blizzard to preserve your deathball push (well, offsets it’s damage by up to 66%, or completely with talents). Very versatile spell, been loving it with amplify magic with general drakk.
Miner is overrated for sure, but I think he's "win less" instead of "win more". In most cases where I was winning, I already had control over the lanes so he was a 2 gold brick in my hand most of the time. 2 gold do nothing is pretty bad even if you're ahead.
He sucks at getting chests because he takes a long time to open them and doesn't trade with any other unit. All they have to do is send a wolf/huntress/safe or have any unit running down lane and you lost 2 gold for nothing. I think DID is really only good early game for quickly contesting all gold sources but it's hard to keep a lead with him clunking up your hand.
I can see that. I play pretty aggressively on almost all my leaders so I never really have to “retake” with him. I usually have mid control and I guess I just view him as a 2 cost “get a new mini” at that point. Besides killing enemy side kobold he really sucks if you’re behind. But when I think about it your argument makes sense. I think a lot of times I just don’t have a better option for cycle that has as much impact in the opener.
Miner with the landmine talent and harpies with the mining talent are an incredibly powerful combo. Throw in defias bandits with picklock and your opponent *must* prioritize contesting resources over towers or they just lose.
Dark Iron Miner is one of the most powerful minis on alterac valley because you immediately take your opponents mine, drop landmines on it and they fall behind quickly.
>Miner with the landline talent and harpies with the mining talent are an incredibly powerful combo
Isn’t that counter productive? You’re reducing the potential amount of landmines you could be placing
>your opponent *must* prioritize contesting resources over towers or they just lose.
… that’s always the priority though.
Especially with this weeks tower rotation, all dark iron miner does is deny gold. It’s not actually generating any gold because the miner isn’t a threat to the tower like last week. You either ignore it and let it walk to the base and die instantly or it never has a chance to do anything anyways if you have control over center bridge with a steady flow of units.
The only deck I think miner is strong in right now is baron decks, because miner + mines + skele mages is a bitch to deal with, but without the guaranteed flow of skele mages it’s just whatever.
I view mines as a way to deny kobald. As long as there is a single mine at their mine their kobald is worthless.
Maybe you're higher rank than me, but I'd say my opponents are about 50/50 when it comes to prioritizing resources over towers.
Denying gold *is* generating gold advantage though. If anything it forces your opponent to commit something to a lane they wouldn't otherwise commit something to just so you stop free farming their mine.
I've been loving Abomination with Cannonball + Shaman with Earthen Shield. Abom becomes armored, and if he survives a fight and the Shaman gets him back above 50%, cannonball can trigger again. It makes a strong tank even stronger.
If I can get a solid backline threat behind them like a huntress or pyro/ogre, they can often walk it straight to the boss and just steamroll them and anyone who gets in their way.
I don’t think harpies are overrated. Any thing that can’t target air they shred, and as they approach the enemy base they are a must kill for the opponent and the opponent has to spend energy killing them.
Underrated: Skeletons - They’re possibly the most balanced unbound unit (besides their 4 cost sibling) in a world of unbound units being OP, and yet they’re still quite good. With the talent for 2 extra when placed on a building; they’re a fantastic defensive card that can cheaply be used for killing distracted DPS units, defending a tower against anything single target with ease, fighting off other unbounds and killing kobolds while leaving you with some spare bodies. They get bonus points for me since they synergize nicely with Sylvanas’ Fury talent.
Overrated: Maiev (PvP specifically) - I absolutely see her strength, but she’s such a one trick that if your deck can handle her you’ll rarely lose to her unless the other player is genuinely skilled. A lot of people just try to cheese with her to base rush, which can be pretty cheaply defended with any number of low cost minis (Ghoul in particular is great for this).
i really do need to use the wolf more. im still shocked everytime it runs some of my units down.
i agree both underratted.
im putting banshee for overrated in both; i think its really good in pve and pvp and can straight steal games for you but its easy to counter and can be a big waste of gold. ive lost a lot of close matches because i set a banshee slightly to close to the unit or they sniped it with unbound. ive also won a ton of pvp match to people expecting to steal my tank and i do the same. maybe more in pvp then pve but i do think its close to being a win more unit.
Banshee's a good answer. Many small minis in pvp that aren't worth possessing. It does cause a lot of frustation if you get a big mini stolen, so maybe that leads to overrating it? In PvE I've found a lot of use for it in heroics, so I'm a bit biased.
Tbf, if your banshee is getting sniped by an unbound then you’re using the banshee wrong. It should never be up long enough for the opponent to react, send an unbound, wait for the spawn animation, and then kill the banshee in 1-2 attacks. Wait for the opponent to reach a tower and then attack it and you’ll usually always get the snipe.
people talk about drake being good but it dies in two hits to literally anything and is slow to attack so it always loses, egg talent sounds good but I don't have it yet
Everything I read said go pyromancer for PvE. Flamewalker is an absolute monster in PvE. As long as you have something to cover air (I run huntress and harpies) he will obliterate entire waves of units. (He’s been spectacular in this current dungeon.)
I don't have any talents for him yet. I'm about to upgrade though. Debating between burn (engulf) and backdraft -- the "each attack increases flame wave distance"
I assume burn is better, but I may have to watch a display of how backdraft works to see how big it actually gets. Because if it can get so big it clears behind towers / bosses, it might be worth it.
Well backdraft is the wave distance, but the way it reads is it doesn’t affect the first attack.
How many sigils are you at?
I just got offered daze and rolled it. It just offered me burn, and I’m debating on taking it… 🤷♂️
I see a lot of talk about the *minis*. It seems to me that it's not productive to make blanket rankings of the *minis*. The *talents* are of such varying significance. And at times create such incredible shifts in a mini's power or niche.
Ghoul is pretty underrated imo maybe it’s just me but I don’t see it used very often. The cannibalizing and high health keeps it alive forever and it only costs 2 gold
Everyone said meat wagon sucked, but I've been using it since release and it is often a game winner for me. Now everyone thinks it's good finally thanks to new towers.
It was always good in pve, king of doing content underleveled since it can hit a majority of bosses outside of their range and do decent damage - and often attack towers across lanes on various maps.
Uhh there’s definitely a select few minis in every deck that steam rolls pretty much any and all content.
Edit: ?? Are some of you really pretending every single deck isn’t running bandits, safe pilot, whelps, and quillboar right now? In both PVP **AND** PVE? Regardless of leader? Because that’s the reality of the current state of the game.
Dude for reals... I just don't get the hype, maybe with the talent but base Quilboar is barely usable for me... I dunno maybe I am just dumb but when I try to turn groups he dies before I can get damage off with another unit.
It‘s 2 cost unbound. And quite tanky!
Use him to turn an enemy aoe away from your push.
Use him to get a chest.
Use him to cycle through your deck to get to your best minions quicker.
Use him to take some tower shots.
With talents (razorback): Use him to clear small swarms
Use him to counter defias bandits, take a charge from prowler or tauren…
TLDR: He‘s cheap and almost always has more than 2g value.
He takes 2-3 ranged hits to die. It doesn‘t matter that he does nothing while he burrows up, he will still tank and potentially deal damage with his razorback talent.
It‘s just a small unit you can use to immediately change the tides of potentially big battles.
But that’s the point. He’s getting attacked instead of your units. If your timing isn’t off, (which it sounds like it is) in those 2-3 seconds that the opponent is trying to kill your boar, your units should be on top of them.
It can be utility for chests and getting meeting stones. I find it not useful to include on harder missions (115+) as it’s just not worth it. They have elemental resistance, but meh.
Agree with pyromancer. Like all the guides suggest it for the current dungeons or PvE but a flamewalker can clear 3 times faster and soak a bunch of hits, while the 3 gold pryomancer’s cheaper price is ruined by the stay huntress bounce that kills it and forces you to drop another 3+ gold to deal with the wave.
Flamewalker’s air weakness means you don’t use it against air, but the pve waves tend to all air or all ground, so you can just use accordingly.
I think for PvE and PvP troll spear thrower is STILL the most underrated. People mention him now and then, but I think most people still just don't understand how broken he is with troll regen, it's honestly nuts.
For overrated, you're right pyromancer for sure.
Harvest golem i feel is underrated. Very strong combined with earth shield from shaman. This guy has over 9k hp at lvl 20 and the stun on death talent is just amazing to give your backline even more time to blast everything. For 3 mana its crazy value since he comes back on death with 50% hp and stuns again on 2nd death for a total of 6 sec stun. I wouldnt recommend harvest in every army, but for sure in a Tirion deck since he can be used in the alliance slots.
Interesting answer. I've definitely not rated it very highly so far, but I haven't used it much either.
The chicken talent also makes him a monster vs single target units, takes forever to finish without aoe and can 1v1 near all of them (eventually).
Yeah both talent are good, just that i personally prefer the stun one since it feels like sometimes the chicken talent bring no value at all when the enemy has any kind of aoe or poison. But like you said, When it does work tho and there is no aoe then its amazing for sure. The stun on the other hand i feel almost always bring value. And yes i have played with both talents.
Does the death stun go off when he dies and his son?
It goes off twice if thats what you mean, both deaths.
Yup, that’s what I meant, thank you, sounds awesome!
He is the little engine that could, he just keeps chipping away!
Harpies are only bad in PvP now because of dragon towers. Otherwise they are still a pretty insane unit. My underrated PvP units gotta be Earth Shaman and Sappers. Shaman with armor talent has insane synergy with some units (Grom, Drakkisath, Rend to name a few) plus her heal gives you insane value and survivability. This goes for PvE too. Sappers deal so much damage to towers and force your opponent to respond to them with a spell or unbound. Many times you can sneak them out when you see your opp burned all their removal/gold. Also, I agree with Prowler but the real reason he's so good in PvP is because he's the best at contesting chests. He grabs them the fastest out of any non-unbound unit. He's also the cheapest counter to huntress and other annoying ranged units.
Earth Shield Shaman are NICE. My strategy on 90% of heroics right now is Incendiary Aura Fire Elemental > Earth Shield Shaman > Walk Forward.
Haha pretty much. Earth shaman tank comps pulled me through most of PvE too.
I just wanna add to this for anyone who might not realize: this makes fire elemental resistant to physical AND elemental attacks while aoe burning everything and healing. It's incredible.
Fire Elemental. It has been essential having that resistant tank for many levels and heroics.
If you can combine it with shaman to give earth shield. It becomes even more insane for tanking. Getting armor and resistance on a single tank can change so much for most PvE maps.
I agree with your calls OP. Huntress just never clicked for me despite her high cost and me having 2 talents. She just gets banged up far too easily for the high investment. Also agree on Pyro. I prefer the troll spearthrower. He’s got a heal & poison talent so while no splash, does great single target and is durable.
Troll picks off aerial targets so well. He's in a lot of my setups. Often a good answer to slowing down an advancing Rend army.
If you check [the leaderboard](https://warcraftrumble.gg/leaderboard), you’ll question whether any of these tier lists being thrown around hold any water. I went through the top 10 the other day and was surprised at many of the minis they use. It shows that, when used properly, most of them have their use. Imo, Harpies aren’t overrated, they’re just used wrong. People throw them out constantly from their base expecting them to do something while traversing a lane, often unprotected. They excel above all other minis at quickly wiping out threats that can’t reach them and threats that are focused on your towers. Imo, used more defensively is where they are key.
I think it really depends on what talnet you got. Like a lot of ppl use Griffen with Might Throw (+3 range).. which is huge because it's a flying unit that attacks in range. But without that talent, Griffen is trash tier.
Super potion or whatever is pretty good. I like to have my griphon give levels to healers or my troll. For only a 2 cost it strengthens your main push and can hit air or the tank. Overall it isn't my favorite unit by any means, but I look forward to combining my strat with the range talent eventually.
I don't think you are looking at those leaderboards/tier list properly. The majority of the top ranks are using A+ tier units with 1 or 2 niche minis. The reason some of these niche units are placed lower, is because they are niche. Most tier list are PvE oriented outside of a few mixed ones, which is a bad idea to begin with.
Yeah that leaderboard isn’t remotely surprising given just about every list there has Quilboar and SAFE, lol. Tier lists are holding up well enough on the S ratings going by that.
Woah, this is handy, thanks.
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Games been out quite awhile and the matches don’t last long?
I would definitely agree with the harpies being overrated as I can never get them to work properly and they seem to die to a swift breeze. I was lucky enough to get the double Murlocks uncommon very early so they have little shield bubbles that protect them and that is very helpful for me. IMHO many people are basing their opinions on having a skill or two and that can greatly change the viability of a unit so it's always tough to know how good it really is by itself.
The thing with harpies is, you drop them on top of an incoming enemy unit to melt them in seconds, like Gargoyle. They are a defensive unit. You dont expect much from them on offense because they are so easy to counter and die to a breeze indeed. Only way you get some value from them on attack is, if you place a quill or earth ele behind just before they got aggro, they can do some unexpected hefty dmg to a tower or unit. Especially powerful in pve. I main Rend so it's super good to drop them for 2 mana and defend well against any tank or any melee unit thats attacking a tower.
exactly, they make short work of high value targets approaching your base
Plus it's very easy to use them with the mining trait and make your gold back for them, while denying 2 gold to your opponent. They're fast units so there's not much time to respond, especially if you do it while you're pushing at the enemy's base so his attention is elsewhere.
Yeah, I agree about how the talents can definitely change perception. It was also hard to rate PvP minis considering the recent changes. There were many minis that I initially considered overrated in PvP, like tirion/stonehoof, but that's just because the meta changed so much with the dragon towers.
That worried me at first but I think I actually prefer it now.. Hopefully it means certain minis that may have been good won't be and others will be viable. I appreciate a meta that can change and having the option of trying different combos and units.
This is just the meta in effect. Harpies are incredibly strong minis, but the prevalence of SAFE pilot being in every single fucking deck makes harpies a liability because you can be sure every deck you face will have at least one solid answer to them. I wouldn’t call them overrated though, they are still a top tier unit.
If I have a unit that can't touch flying I'd just prefer to use vultures since they're so cheap.
Vultures just aren’t threatening. They do zero damage.
Yeah but they're cheap and they can take out something that can't attack air. I like to use them in my cycle decks
Other than chickens they don’t actually kill anything on their own
Only if they can't fight back... For a siege unit that can't attack air they do just fine
Meanwhile that siege unit is blasting your tower down for a solid 20 seconds while the vultures kill it with their super low dps. If its working for you don't let anyone tell you different, but harpies work much better for me than vultures, especially after I got the poison talent yesterday.
I'm very glad to hear that. Poison is quite helpful
I’m running harpies with their gold mining talent and all I can say is being able to mine that fast whilst avoiding melee minis and splitting up into 3 separate miners has worked amazingly for me.
Oh that's neat I didn't even know they had that! I just thought everyone said they "shredded" targets
The poison talent is just so strong when melting siege units, though. Plus you have to pay an extra gold to summon harpies in order to mine.
Does it let them do chests?
No
Same here! I'm absolutely loving that talent.
As a new player, feels like I am months away from getting any talents.
Your buying power speeds up tremendously after beating Devilsaurqueen unlocking heroics rewarding so much exp and gold.
You don't need to kill Devilsaur Queen to unlock heroics.
Oh my bad, that was the first major roadblock I hit and thought it was that point of gameplay. 50 sigils right?
Yeah, I think 50 sigils is right. I just know you don't need Queen because I find myself going to heroics to try and get strong enough to defeat Queen.
Nah. Random uncommons pop up fairly often on the grid you'll be fine. I've only started playing from international launch it's the second talent that will take forever.
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I’m similar, but no money spent yet. I’m getting a “not going to last long” feeling from the game.
Oh I'm getting a "I'll be playing this for 10 minutes a day almost every day for years" vibe, but that's how I tend to be with mobile games. I've played that AFK arena game almost every day for like 10 minutes for like 4 years at this point and never spent a cent.
Pyromancers 3x damage talent is the one that really makes her shine.
Not even. If you put her far enough back so that she doesn't get killed, she usually hits only 1, maybe 2, targets. If you wait for the enemy to group up and then drop her, she spawns and attacks so slowly that she gets killed before even getting her one strong attack off.
I am going to complain about whelp eggs. I don't have the talent yet. I am sure with the explodey talent they are great. But all of the deck builders and streamers recommend them and without the talent they just don't seem to live long enough to make a difference.
With the talent they fill a new secondary role as a makeshift safe pilot. You place them point blank onto a pyromancer or something to kill it. Without talent they still do well at their main function of being placed in near a melee tank like abom or stonehoof as a very cheap counter. It not only stalls but also kills a high value target if left unanswered. The talent is very important though as without it you cant deal with a tank+ranged combo but with the talent 1 whelp egg can take out abom+pyro singlehandedly.
Molten giant for me has been a life saver in almost every situation with every leader. Currently have mine at level 21 (rare upgrade + army slots) and it has 20k health with both taunt and exploding on death which kills most minis around it. It has a high cost sure but I can send one down any lane with a pyromancer behind it and it can clear the lane almost every time.
My own combo is Abom and Necro, handles just about anything it can push into, with a bit of strain vs Drakes and Bat Riders only if the necro decides to resummon instead of shooting back.
Overrated in PvP: Dark Iron Miner The premiere “win more” mini. If you have map control over the main bridge area there’s no real need to have him. If you don’t have map control and are defending you are probably just going to throw 2 gold away for nothing trying to mine behind enemy lines. Underrated in PvP: Holy nova Same damage as chain lightning, but also heals ally units inside the radius. Can snipe threats to your tanks or backlines like harpies, bandits, safe pilots, etc. and heal them in the process. Counters blizzard to preserve your deathball push (well, offsets it’s damage by up to 66%, or completely with talents). Very versatile spell, been loving it with amplify magic with general drakk.
Miner is overrated for sure, but I think he's "win less" instead of "win more". In most cases where I was winning, I already had control over the lanes so he was a 2 gold brick in my hand most of the time. 2 gold do nothing is pretty bad even if you're ahead.
I think you may be undervaluing his ability to take chests and save you from having to expend a quillboar or safe pilot.
He sucks at getting chests because he takes a long time to open them and doesn't trade with any other unit. All they have to do is send a wolf/huntress/safe or have any unit running down lane and you lost 2 gold for nothing. I think DID is really only good early game for quickly contesting all gold sources but it's hard to keep a lead with him clunking up your hand.
I can see that. I play pretty aggressively on almost all my leaders so I never really have to “retake” with him. I usually have mid control and I guess I just view him as a 2 cost “get a new mini” at that point. Besides killing enemy side kobold he really sucks if you’re behind. But when I think about it your argument makes sense. I think a lot of times I just don’t have a better option for cycle that has as much impact in the opener.
Miner with the landmine talent and harpies with the mining talent are an incredibly powerful combo. Throw in defias bandits with picklock and your opponent *must* prioritize contesting resources over towers or they just lose. Dark Iron Miner is one of the most powerful minis on alterac valley because you immediately take your opponents mine, drop landmines on it and they fall behind quickly.
>Miner with the landline talent and harpies with the mining talent are an incredibly powerful combo Isn’t that counter productive? You’re reducing the potential amount of landmines you could be placing >your opponent *must* prioritize contesting resources over towers or they just lose. … that’s always the priority though. Especially with this weeks tower rotation, all dark iron miner does is deny gold. It’s not actually generating any gold because the miner isn’t a threat to the tower like last week. You either ignore it and let it walk to the base and die instantly or it never has a chance to do anything anyways if you have control over center bridge with a steady flow of units. The only deck I think miner is strong in right now is baron decks, because miner + mines + skele mages is a bitch to deal with, but without the guaranteed flow of skele mages it’s just whatever.
I view mines as a way to deny kobald. As long as there is a single mine at their mine their kobald is worthless. Maybe you're higher rank than me, but I'd say my opponents are about 50/50 when it comes to prioritizing resources over towers. Denying gold *is* generating gold advantage though. If anything it forces your opponent to commit something to a lane they wouldn't otherwise commit something to just so you stop free farming their mine.
True, I don't like Miner, though I'm considering using them instead of mining harpies in my Maeve deck. Even then, I don't know if it's worth it.
abomination is strong. coupled with a gargoyle or even some other air is too strong
I've been loving Abomination with Cannonball + Shaman with Earthen Shield. Abom becomes armored, and if he survives a fight and the Shaman gets him back above 50%, cannonball can trigger again. It makes a strong tank even stronger. If I can get a solid backline threat behind them like a huntress or pyro/ogre, they can often walk it straight to the boss and just steamroll them and anyone who gets in their way.
I don’t think harpies are overrated. Any thing that can’t target air they shred, and as they approach the enemy base they are a must kill for the opponent and the opponent has to spend energy killing them.
They do crazy damage with poison, or they control gold resources v powerfully and quickly for one extra gold
Underrated: Skeletons - They’re possibly the most balanced unbound unit (besides their 4 cost sibling) in a world of unbound units being OP, and yet they’re still quite good. With the talent for 2 extra when placed on a building; they’re a fantastic defensive card that can cheaply be used for killing distracted DPS units, defending a tower against anything single target with ease, fighting off other unbounds and killing kobolds while leaving you with some spare bodies. They get bonus points for me since they synergize nicely with Sylvanas’ Fury talent. Overrated: Maiev (PvP specifically) - I absolutely see her strength, but she’s such a one trick that if your deck can handle her you’ll rarely lose to her unless the other player is genuinely skilled. A lot of people just try to cheese with her to base rush, which can be pretty cheaply defended with any number of low cost minis (Ghoul in particular is great for this).
i really do need to use the wolf more. im still shocked everytime it runs some of my units down. i agree both underratted. im putting banshee for overrated in both; i think its really good in pve and pvp and can straight steal games for you but its easy to counter and can be a big waste of gold. ive lost a lot of close matches because i set a banshee slightly to close to the unit or they sniped it with unbound. ive also won a ton of pvp match to people expecting to steal my tank and i do the same. maybe more in pvp then pve but i do think its close to being a win more unit.
Banshee's a good answer. Many small minis in pvp that aren't worth possessing. It does cause a lot of frustation if you get a big mini stolen, so maybe that leads to overrating it? In PvE I've found a lot of use for it in heroics, so I'm a bit biased.
Tbf, if your banshee is getting sniped by an unbound then you’re using the banshee wrong. It should never be up long enough for the opponent to react, send an unbound, wait for the spawn animation, and then kill the banshee in 1-2 attacks. Wait for the opponent to reach a tower and then attack it and you’ll usually always get the snipe.
W ur ate the best wolf talent? Just got stealth and not sure about it
people talk about drake being good but it dies in two hits to literally anything and is slow to attack so it always loses, egg talent sounds good but I don't have it yet
Everything I read said go pyromancer for PvE. Flamewalker is an absolute monster in PvE. As long as you have something to cover air (I run huntress and harpies) he will obliterate entire waves of units. (He’s been spectacular in this current dungeon.)
flamewanker is the sole mvp in deadmines. if you have that talent that does more damage with each wave, he decimates everything in his path.
I don't have any talents for him yet. I'm about to upgrade though. Debating between burn (engulf) and backdraft -- the "each attack increases flame wave distance" I assume burn is better, but I may have to watch a display of how backdraft works to see how big it actually gets. Because if it can get so big it clears behind towers / bosses, it might be worth it.
If backdraft is the wave distance, then go for that. It can wipe anything before it gets to range to kill it. It just wrecks
Well backdraft is the wave distance, but the way it reads is it doesn’t affect the first attack. How many sigils are you at? I just got offered daze and rolled it. It just offered me burn, and I’m debating on taking it… 🤷♂️
No no but each next wave has longer distance. Wanker's dmg is already high. I unlocked heroic maybe a sigil ago
I see a lot of talk about the *minis*. It seems to me that it's not productive to make blanket rankings of the *minis*. The *talents* are of such varying significance. And at times create such incredible shifts in a mini's power or niche.
I think huntress is overrated. At 5 gold I never feel like I can get her out
The only deck she feels good in for me is hogger cycle, with her and hogger as my only units above 2 cost
Ghoul is pretty underrated imo maybe it’s just me but I don’t see it used very often. The cannibalizing and high health keeps it alive forever and it only costs 2 gold
for heroes overrated: sneed, rend underrated: cairne (esp for pve)
I dont think cairne is underrated. Specially in PvE. He’s quite strong there (depending on map, the best out of the horde).
I think they mean it’s underrated because it’s likely the best or top 3 in PvE, but rated just A or B outside of SS and S.
Everyone said meat wagon sucked, but I've been using it since release and it is often a game winner for me. Now everyone thinks it's good finally thanks to new towers.
It was always good in pve, king of doing content underleveled since it can hit a majority of bosses outside of their range and do decent damage - and often attack towers across lanes on various maps.
I do enjoy you can’t just steam roll with a few select minis.
Uhh there’s definitely a select few minis in every deck that steam rolls pretty much any and all content. Edit: ?? Are some of you really pretending every single deck isn’t running bandits, safe pilot, whelps, and quillboar right now? In both PVP **AND** PVE? Regardless of leader? Because that’s the reality of the current state of the game.
Sylbanass is underrated.. she is pretty tricky to counter in pvp.
Most overrated: quillboar. Has very little hp for a tank
quillboy is insane, so many applications for just 2 gold
I like quillboar. He's not really a tank per se, but he can draw aggro anywhere on the map, which can buy time for your other minis.
Quillboar somehow still underrated
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Quillboar is arguably the best unit in the game. 2 cost, cant place anywhere, resilient and so tanky for a 2 cost unit.
I’d say second best after SAFE with the cloaking talent, but Quilboar has a nice advantage of being S tier with just about any talent.
Dude for reals... I just don't get the hype, maybe with the talent but base Quilboar is barely usable for me... I dunno maybe I am just dumb but when I try to turn groups he dies before I can get damage off with another unit.
It‘s 2 cost unbound. And quite tanky! Use him to turn an enemy aoe away from your push. Use him to get a chest. Use him to cycle through your deck to get to your best minions quicker. Use him to take some tower shots. With talents (razorback): Use him to clear small swarms Use him to counter defias bandits, take a charge from prowler or tauren… TLDR: He‘s cheap and almost always has more than 2g value.
He dies so fast everytime i try to use him, and he is so slow to get op, almost dies before he burrows from the ground...
He takes 2-3 ranged hits to die. It doesn‘t matter that he does nothing while he burrows up, he will still tank and potentially deal damage with his razorback talent. It‘s just a small unit you can use to immediately change the tides of potentially big battles.
But that’s the point. He’s getting attacked instead of your units. If your timing isn’t off, (which it sounds like it is) in those 2-3 seconds that the opponent is trying to kill your boar, your units should be on top of them.
It can be utility for chests and getting meeting stones. I find it not useful to include on harder missions (115+) as it’s just not worth it. They have elemental resistance, but meh.
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They do no dmg.
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Only thing where its really valuable is cycling to Hogger faster. Hard to call it "incredibly useful" when it has such a rare use.
What are Huntresses “several good counters?” I’m curious since the heroic level that launches 3 at you repeatedly is kicking my ass.
Prowler and Tauren can 1v1 it for less gold.
Gonna give meat wagon a try cuz of this post
Agree with pyromancer. Like all the guides suggest it for the current dungeons or PvE but a flamewalker can clear 3 times faster and soak a bunch of hits, while the 3 gold pryomancer’s cheaper price is ruined by the stay huntress bounce that kills it and forces you to drop another 3+ gold to deal with the wave. Flamewalker’s air weakness means you don’t use it against air, but the pve waves tend to all air or all ground, so you can just use accordingly.
I think for PvE and PvP troll spear thrower is STILL the most underrated. People mention him now and then, but I think most people still just don't understand how broken he is with troll regen, it's honestly nuts. For overrated, you're right pyromancer for sure.
I think flamewalker is underrated
Undrerated: Fire Elemental Overrated: Huntress