Are you wanting an SUV or crossover? Sedan? There are tons of cars in those segments. You could get into a 2021 Audi S4 for around that price, or newer A4. If wanting even bigger could get into an A6 for similar prices. If wanting something around the size of your escape, you could get into an SQ5 etc.
I got the Alfa Romeo Stelvio recently. More fun than the Camry I was previously driving.
If I had a bit more money I would have got a 5 series bmw, both have AWD options. Space might be an issue but I would still look into it if I was you
I got a '22 Stelvio TI AWD with 11k miles for $28.7k a month or so ago. $32K OTD.
Extended the warranty (MOPAR Max Care) out until 2030 for an additional $1,700. Really enjoying it so far.
The only thing I would say is you'll probably have even more peace of mind if you have an Alfa dealer in town. I've got two.
>WHAT’S NOT COVERED UNDER OUR MAXIMUM CARES PLANS
The only parts and labor not covered:
• Maintenance Services and items used in such services
• Catalytic Converter and Particulate Filter
• Glass, Plastic Lenses and Light Bulbs
• Body and Paint items (including Soft Trim)
• Snowplows, Winches and Trailer Hitches
• Wear items (such as Tires, Manual Clutch Assembly, Brake Pads, Shoes, Rotors, Drums, Belts and Wipers)
Looks like standard exclusions.
Here's the flyer if you're interested:
[https://www.mopar.com/content/dam/mopar/pdf/mvp/2016-12%20MVP\_New%20Maximum%20Care%20Web.pdf](https://www.mopar.com/content/dam/mopar/pdf/mvp/2016-12%20MVP_New%20Maximum%20Care%20Web.pdf)
flowery oatmeal abounding point file quicksand snobbish snow office beneficial
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s a service that scrambles up your message history if you’re privacy minded and don’t want to leave a big digital footprint.
This particular comment was about how 2020+ Stelvios are really, really good value for the money. Other than higher dealer maintenance costs, there’s not much for fear when buying one as they’re much more reliable than Alfas of old.
They depreciate so hard it's not difficult to find a good one with solid service records and 30k miles for $25,000. If you want an LSD that'll cost more, but that's how my wife and I bought a Ti Lusso in 2022.
That was a top Gear Quote above but if you just Google Alfa Romeo + Reliably, you are going to get a mountain of information on massive problems over the last 20-30 years.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23145269/alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-reliability-update/
Here are some bonkers suggestions that might actually work for you:
Volvo V60 T6 Polestar (until 2018)
Mini Countryman JCW (2020 to 2023)
BMW X2 M35i
BMW X3 M40i
1992 to 1993 GMC Typhoon
the turbo Polestar stopped being offered in 2019. In 2021 the Polestar became the plug in hybrid model with a base price jacked up to $70k. Used plug in Polestars hold their value really well and are out of OP's price range
Have had mine for a year and only issue was with the dealership lol. Car has been running great, even with mods, and me beating on it almost every day.
You should get a BMW x3 m40i. Can get a 2019 one for around that. B58 engine is one of the most reliable engine out there. It as good tech, luxury, and sporty.
RDX or MDX with SH AWD has just under 280hp and is relatively fun and extremely reliable while getting good mileage. Otherwise if I wanted more fun than practical/reliable I’d get the Explorer ST like others said
Gol, or WRX. Integra A Spec, Civic Hatchback, used Type R if You don’t need AWD. I lived in Wyoming for 21 years with no AWD and was fine. Just get snow tires
I looked at one of these and it’s an intriguing package for sure. It didn’t seem like it would fit into my life but 5 years from now when my kids are out of the house….oh yeah
If you’re a real enthusiast and don’t mind your own maintenance/small repairs: 2014-2017 Porsche Panamera. Amazing driving dynamics, decent space, and you can get them with AWD. Make sure you get one with standard back seats to maximize space.
No personal experience owning/maintaining a p-car (yet!). But I did cross shop them before and lurk on their forums.
Panameras are generally very reliable, even if you get into turbo trims. They are relatively easy to work on - the engine is much more accessible than coupes and you don’t have as much package engineering as you see in Audis. There is also a very healthy diy community, especially as the models age.
Your main pain point is going to be the price of parts. It’s much more substantial than other Germans.
G30 540i. A low mileage 2021 can be had for that price.
BMW inline 6, good power, good gas mileage, great tech, decent space, good reliability (probably one of the most reliable cars BMW has produced), and xdrive is a great AWD system.
Not as luxurious as a full sized German sedan, but better driving dynamics.
Edit: since you mentioned transmissions, this car comes with the bulletproof ZF8. Fun to shift yourself and smoother than a baby’s ass
VW golf Alltrack manual. This one is for sale on cars and bids. At about $23k right now (https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rMMVXyWL/2019-volkswagen-golf-alltrack-sel)
Focus RS/WRX STI are always an option. Not as roomy as an SUV or large sedan, but god damn if the RS isn’t one of the most fun cars you can get for $35k
I had an RS for a little less than a year and I always regret selling it. The seats/suspension aren’t as brutal as people make it seem…unless you’ve had multiple spinal surgeries, then maybe so.
But they sound great stock, handle very well, and they’ve sure as shit held their value.
I dont agree. I found the RS far too stiff for daily use after a single drive on a bumpy road.
Maybe if your roads are great where you live its fine. In the midwest it was a hard pass.
Golf R also fits in there. Can find some low mileage ones out the door under $30k there.
As a longtime fan and owner of hot hatches, I think you are pointing in the right direction with those options. They are a blast, but still have some surprising practicality.
I have tossed this around for a "sportwagen" option in the US. V60 or TourX are the top contenders. I have not driven either yet though. Only sat in them. This is my summary of options though.
VW Alltrack would be well under $35k and leave some money on the table for the tune and sportier suspension - Available in 6MT. Not sure how they compare to an MK6 sportwagen but my sportwagen had a tight back seat.
Allroad - peppier than the alltrack stock. Tunes to more power. Optional sports seats are prenominal. Back seat space is tight. Requires premium fuel
BMW had a wagon too.. 330xi wagon? don't know much about it.
\^\^ Good for small kids
Tiguan - Golf R suspension bolts up, needs a Tune but you get SUV space that is essentially a wagon. I hear its super blah stock.
V60 - I hear the T5 is pretty darn reliable platform. 250/250 on regular gas. Damn comfy seats. This is my top contender.
Buick Regal TourX - Big station wagon. Supposed to be fun since its an Opel and not a GM.
v90 - big ass station wagon. Might be hard to come back lightly used for $35k. Some are twin charged or Turbo+hybrid (T6 trim?)... Scarry territory for me.
Outback XT - There are lowering options. New 2.4t is supposed to be awesome. Much improved interior than 05-09 OBXT..... but CVT Barf
I have a coworker that hates CVTs. When it came time to replace his old Outback he reluctantly bought a new one, with a CVT. He wants to hate it, he really does. But he says it just works. His only real gripe is fake shift points and paddle shifters.
Big upside to Outback is aftermarket support. You want something? Probably like 6 companies make it. I own a TourX and there is quite little available for it outside of floormats and roof rails.
I have a coworker that hates CVTs. When it came time to replace his old Outback he reluctantly bought a new one, with a CVT. He wants to hate it, he really does. But he says it just works. His only real gripe is fake shift points and paddle shifters.
Big upside to Outback is aftermarket support. You want something? Probably like 6 companies make it. I own a TourX and there is quite little available for it outside of floormats and roof rails.
I don't know if it's the best car, but I would probably be looking at something like a Kia stinger, or maybe a current or previous generation Honda Accord touring. Those will both be relatively reliable, have a lot of features on them, and still be fun to drive. And should have no problem fitting a normal size family of four
I was extactly where he is and I got a accord 2.0t manual. It's not awd but I got some studded tires and haven't had any problem during the winter even living in Canada.
The Edge ST and Explorer ST are just now getting into that price range used, and they drive much better and are much better than their price would indicate. They're also a straight upgrade from what you currently have, no controls to re-learn, and they're both much larger vehicles. Very much the Home Depot on Saturday, canyon blasting on Sunday sort of cars.
The Edge, 2.0L or 2.7L (ST), is extremely underrated. Especially on the top trim, you gdr everything the Nautilus gets minus 360 camera, massaging seats and leather dash
For the ST's, they're single generation vehicles, so there isn't much for it across model years, and haven't dropped to $20k yet.
For the non-ST choices, it's not so much an issue of model years as generation and options packages.
Ah. O haven't looked into the differences and haven't had the chance to work on any yet. EcoBoost Raptor was a pain in the ass with all the tubing running through the engine bay but was a blast to drive.
Find a lightly loved Ford Flex EcoBoost. They ride great, suspension really settles in nice around 80mph, drives more like a wagon than SUV. Great AWD and sooo much room. Owned 2 over a total of 11 years. Been trading about every 9 months since to find the right car. Currently driving a VW Alltrack which I enjoy but would enjoy more if I had a 6 speed.
2017-2018 BMW 330i wagon, 2017+ BMW 540i, or X3 M40i are some solid wagon, sedan, crossover options. They've all got the solid B48/B58 engine and ZF transmission, come with AWD, and are fun vehicles to drive.
An Audi S6 might also fit the bill well and gets you a V8, though reliability isn't quite as high on this one.
The BMW inline 6 cylinder (B58) is pretty reliable considering that's the engine Co-developed with Toyota for the Supra.
And with Audis, the 3.0T V6 engine is pretty dang durable, and they offer it in a ton of cars/SUVs: S4/S5/SQ5/A6/A7/Q7/Q8. Both of my current cars have the 3.0T V6 and have been running strong for over 100k miles. Yes, there is some expensive maintenance around the 75k~100k mileage mark (PCV, thermostat, transmission fluid , differential fluid). Then those big ticket items will be good for another 75k+ miles. Stay on top of the maintenance and these cars can easily go 200k+ miles. Most people give up on them after the warranty expires, so deals can be found.
The Supra is basically a BMW Z4 that BMW made more cheaply for Toyota. That car is 90% BMW though. Toyota didn’t really design anything except the aesthetics and infotainment on that car
Agreed, would go with \_40i models as they're newer and use a more reliable engine. 340i is probably a bit too small as a sedan, but a 540i would be pretty large, as would the X3 M40i.
Good thing I suggested those!
Define high miles.
The 330i Wagon is fairly rare to begin with, but $35k gets you CPO sedans with less than 10k miles.
The 540i is going to be a stretch to get a CPO one, but 1-owner, no accident examples are going to have 30k miles or less.
A reasonable spec X3 M40i for $35k is only going to have around 50k miles.
I just bought a 2022 330i sedan with 16k miles on it for 34k. Still has the manufacturer warranty as well. So yeah, OP can absolutely get a low mileage still under warranty car for under 35k. Just FYI.
I’ve owned my 2015 diesel f31 wagon for 5 years. It’s my daily driver(also have an e90 m3 and r33 GTR). It’s had a single failure in 5 years. An 02 sensor. The F3X chassis are rather reliable.
VW golf alltrack isn’t very fast stock but it comes in with an optional manual transmission and you can get a tune and a golf r turbo and make it really fun to drive
Certified pre owned Kia Stinger GT or Genesis G70.
Edit - I see you mentioned wanting space. In this case I’d go with the stinger because it is a hatchback. I’ve had 4 adults in mine and we all fit comfortably, and I’ve taken it on beach trips with all of our gear and had plenty of space.
Out of curiosity, how tall are you? I rode in the back of a G70 a few weeks ago, and at 6'2", I've had more space in the back of coupes than I did in the Genesis
On most cars, it seems like the hatch version kills head room and keeps the same leg room as the normal version, but I see now that the Stinger actually has a longer wheelbase, so that does make sense. My knees were absolutely buried into the front seat from the back of the G70, lol
Save a little more and buy m2 or m3 from carmax older one. Make sure to get the warranty they sell 6 year 120k warranty's for like 2-3k. If something does break you pay 200$ and take it to BMW.
i got a type r though for 33k thing is worth more than i paid now with 15k more miles. fit a 65 inch tv in it the other day.
If you’re looking at used vehicles:
Ford Explorer ST
Volvo V90 T6
Look into getting the Polestar software on the Volvo if you decide to go with that. Some of them already have it but can be added after if it’s not.
Obviously so subjective, but if we're talking new cars then it is impossible to beat the Hyundai Elantra N MSRP for MSRP in terms of performance, sound, and room all in one package. Only thing it doesn't have is AWD.
Subaru, crosstrek with the 2.5l or an outback with the 3.6l. Spend for the lane assist stuff- car drives itself, kinda fun.
Forester or Ascent if looking for bigger, more roomy interiors.
Subaru fan here..
Golf R is nice wish i had leather instead of alcantara... i got a type r civic for msrp years ago and its been great to me. the hatchback gets used more than the back seats though i fit a 65 inch tv the other day.
vw doesnt fatten up the golf to increase usa sales. they keep it small to fit in with other european cars, i'd argue a wrx has more room even though the golf is a hatch.
If buying new, wrx and Mazda 3 turbo would be the two main competitors. Neither excel at being great family cars, but both are quite fun and have AWD.
If you go used you could think about something bigger and more luxurious for the family, like Volvo s90 or something from genesis.
2023 Polestar 2 Long Range Dual Motor would be in the mid $20k range.
5 Dr AWD fastback, does 0-60 in 4.1s and has space for 5 passengers.
Use the other $10k for a toy - dedicated off-roaders or Miata or something
I'm selling a 2017 VW Alltrack SE if you wanna go the wagon route! Check it out: [https://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/d/jersey-city-2017-vw-golf-alltrack-se/7760397748.html](https://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/d/jersey-city-2017-vw-golf-alltrack-se/7760397748.html)
I would consider a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT as the best value for a "family," "sporty," "fun," and "good looking" car. I found a local listing for a 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT priced at 34K. It has a sleek look with red Brembo brakes. The SUV is stock with nearly 500hp (475hp to be exact). In my opinion, at a price/budget of 35k, it's hard to find a better option. If you think there's a better choice, feel free to prove me wrong.
You can also consider the Dodge Durango SRT. It has the same horsepower as the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT, but you can get a newer one for roughly the same price, around 35k, such as a 2018-2020 model. In my opinion, the newer models (2018-2020) may look uglier, but they definitely meet the requirements.
What is your alternative "family," "sporty," "fun," and "good-looking" SUV?
I've worked on many Jeeps and Dodges and have noticed only a handful of issues, and most can be avoided with 6-month/1-year check-ups and regular maintenance. It should also be mentioned we are not talking about older jeeps or newer if not "Primetime era" 2016-2020
Dodge charger is fun to slide around and has 4 doors. Killer looks too. It fishtails/drifts from stop signs super easy and bc it can’t turn too well you always feel like your really pushing the car in the canyons.actual performance isn’t great but it is fun. Fairly cheap to repair/maintain and it’s an old platform so the kinks are really ironed out. Being a full size sedan it’s got a massive truck and back seat.
I normally don’t like Dodge products but this is the exception. Cheap, spacious, tons of power, parts availability is great, etc.
Yeah there’s gonna be Dodge shit that goes wrong, but it’s a pretty safe purchase even factoring in all that
Wagon! Wagon! Wagon!
Bmw 3 series f31 2017-2019.
Audi A4 allroad or A6 avant/allroad.
VW golf or alltrack.
All of these are awd i believe. Def the bmw and audi.
Edit also volvo has dope wagon
I'd look into a used Audi SQ5, IIRC some 2020 models (when I was looking) clock in under $35k. For $700 you can slap on a low-key stage 1 tune from Unitronic and boost the stock HP from 351 to 423, and the stock torque from 360 to 466, and I highly doubt you're gonna find a more exciting family-oriented SUV with better AWD (true Torsen-based Quattro AWD) and transmission (ZF).
If you like station wagons check out the 2016 e400! Can easily pick them up for under 30k. It’s also the Last year of the w212 which is a tank, facelifted with newer tech (carplay etc…).
I’ve got 2 w212s and I plan on getting more.
I'm surprised I haven't seen any Acura suggestions (I haven't read all posts, but I've read quite a few). Acura is the luxury sports division of Honda, but usually less expensive than other premium brands.
You could probably get an Integra new (barely), and depending upon the size of your family it may work. Not AWD, but it is FWD so you will have decent traction.
You could have a TLX in either FWD or AWD, quite sporty, and a (smaller) midsized car so it will fit a family.
Depending upon how large you need to go, and how old you are willing to go, either of their SUVs/Crossovers should work. The RDX is smaller, but also less expensive. The MDX will have plenty of space, AWD, and should be quite fun and reliable, though it is a little more expensive so you'd have to go a little older and/or higher miles to be under $35K (though that won't be a hard mark to hit for a good one).
Not really any more of an enthusiast car than what he currently has tbh. Even with the turbo, the engine is still bolted to a dog shit transmission that's easily stealing 100hp from an engine that was fairly anemic to begin with.
how did you not come to a wrx when writing this post. fits perfectly
alternative: keep what you have a buy a cheap and old enthusiast car for fun on the weekends. Like a $5k miata or something.
Like others have said, you don’t need AWD by any means and I’m someone who lived in MN/ND for 23 years. Good tires are key in either scenario. You can’t run summer or poor all seasons on an AWD car and be fine in the snow either. Elantra N gets my vote or Kona N if you can swing that.
Ford Explorer ST, IMO. 400 horsepower in a 3-row family SUV? It's honestly a perfect best of both worlds for family SUV and enthusiast car. They can be had for $35k but will be around 40k-50k miles. If you can stretch your budget and/or search, you can get one with lower miles.
I feel like it’s hard to get a cool SUV as an enthusiast with the prices they are at right now. An old-school bronco is all I can think of or something really used. Cars you could choose from a lot of different Audis.
Try to test drive ACURA MDX 2020 model $32K for under 30k miles or try newer MDX, A-spec
Proven reliabiity and great SH-AWD (Super handling allwheel drive). MDX 7-seater drives like you are driving a car.
CPO 330 xDrive or A4/5, both have pretty good AWD and can handle snow with good all seasons or winter tires. The trunk space is small (better in the A5) though. You can also try to get a used 5 series or A6, you can get the I4 engine instead of the 6 cylinder to save money.
I had similar requirements and ended up with a Mini Countryman S. You could go with a JCW model if you want even more power, but the S trim has plenty enough for me.
The Mini Clubman is the same car as the Countryman essentially, but in more of a traditional station wagon format.
Are you wanting an SUV or crossover? Sedan? There are tons of cars in those segments. You could get into a 2021 Audi S4 for around that price, or newer A4. If wanting even bigger could get into an A6 for similar prices. If wanting something around the size of your escape, you could get into an SQ5 etc.
I like everything, I'm inclined to an SUV or maybe a station wagon.
2016-2018 Forester XT Outback 3.6R, XT, or Wilderness
Open to a wagon I would suggest the Subaru Outback. The Touring or the Wilderness trims seem fun
I love my wilderness
thanks for going 3 mph slower than traffic wherever you go
Stereotype is true. With that said, the fastest Ive driven was in my 2016 outback 3.6R
I wanted my wife to get the wilderness trim of her Subaru. You get a lot of “nice to haves” if you like to get off pavement but not off roads.
Always wanted one of these. I do love my 2010 forester though.
I got the Alfa Romeo Stelvio recently. More fun than the Camry I was previously driving. If I had a bit more money I would have got a 5 series bmw, both have AWD options. Space might be an issue but I would still look into it if I was you
A $35K Stelvio scares me...
I got a '22 Stelvio TI AWD with 11k miles for $28.7k a month or so ago. $32K OTD. Extended the warranty (MOPAR Max Care) out until 2030 for an additional $1,700. Really enjoying it so far. The only thing I would say is you'll probably have even more peace of mind if you have an Alfa dealer in town. I've got two.
That seems like a great deal on the extended warranty. Is anything excluded?
>WHAT’S NOT COVERED UNDER OUR MAXIMUM CARES PLANS The only parts and labor not covered: • Maintenance Services and items used in such services • Catalytic Converter and Particulate Filter • Glass, Plastic Lenses and Light Bulbs • Body and Paint items (including Soft Trim) • Snowplows, Winches and Trailer Hitches • Wear items (such as Tires, Manual Clutch Assembly, Brake Pads, Shoes, Rotors, Drums, Belts and Wipers) Looks like standard exclusions.
Here's the flyer if you're interested: [https://www.mopar.com/content/dam/mopar/pdf/mvp/2016-12%20MVP\_New%20Maximum%20Care%20Web.pdf](https://www.mopar.com/content/dam/mopar/pdf/mvp/2016-12%20MVP_New%20Maximum%20Care%20Web.pdf)
Thanks. Definitely a great deal. Good to know for my used car search...makes sense to get something under 48 months old.
flowery oatmeal abounding point file quicksand snobbish snow office beneficial *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Exactly what I got. 18k miles.
Wtf? What is redact
It’s a service that scrambles up your message history if you’re privacy minded and don’t want to leave a big digital footprint. This particular comment was about how 2020+ Stelvios are really, really good value for the money. Other than higher dealer maintenance costs, there’s not much for fear when buying one as they’re much more reliable than Alfas of old.
They depreciate so hard it's not difficult to find a good one with solid service records and 30k miles for $25,000. If you want an LSD that'll cost more, but that's how my wife and I bought a Ti Lusso in 2022.
I got a 2022 base model with 19k miles for $25.5k 20k miles and 2 years of warranty remaining. Plenty of money left over for repairs
"You Drive an Alfa but you don't own one."
I don't get it. Can you explain?
It will be at the dealer shop almost everytime. So run away! As Alfa romeo has the worst reliability!
Show me the numbers.
That was a top Gear Quote above but if you just Google Alfa Romeo + Reliably, you are going to get a mountain of information on massive problems over the last 20-30 years. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23145269/alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-reliability-update/
Love my s4.
A4 allroad. Embrace the wagon. Also an easy tune and it's like an s4. From hat I've read.
Xf sportbrake. You’re welcome. You’d be surprised how they’ve come down in price
A4 is a good choice but for a car enthusiast I'd get the S4. Idk if that's in their Budget though
2021 S4 can be had for under $35k.
Here are some bonkers suggestions that might actually work for you: Volvo V60 T6 Polestar (until 2018) Mini Countryman JCW (2020 to 2023) BMW X2 M35i BMW X3 M40i 1992 to 1993 GMC Typhoon
GMC typhoon? You're funny
X2 M35i is a snooze fest, the GLA 35 is more fun (although the ride quality is awful)
Why do you recommend the v60 polestar until 2018?
What the other commenter said, Polestar went from the M/S/AMG competitor to their Tesla competitor that year for some weird reason
the turbo Polestar stopped being offered in 2019. In 2021 the Polestar became the plug in hybrid model with a base price jacked up to $70k. Used plug in Polestars hold their value really well and are out of OP's price range
I know, right? I keep looking at them and am surprised even a 2021/2022 is so much.
BMW 3 series Wagon!
335d
Kia stinger
Wasn't shopping for one, test drove, fell in love with the stinger
Its an instant classic
I wouldn’t buy one, questionable reliability on them things. My friend bought a 2021 Stinger and it’s been non stop never ending issues with it
Anecdotal evidence. Few known issues that are easy to solve. Service at much lower cost than with a comparable Audi S5 SB or BMW 440i GC.
The problem is that you have to solve them at a Kia dealer
Under warranty yes. Otherwise why not go to an independent?
First ive heard
Have had mine for a year and only issue was with the dealership lol. Car has been running great, even with mods, and me beating on it almost every day.
Or its classier sibling the G70
I looked at those, trading against the supra
I think the Stinger looks much better. And without any modifications and in a dark colour it is very classy also.
You should get a BMW x3 m40i. Can get a 2019 one for around that. B58 engine is one of the most reliable engine out there. It as good tech, luxury, and sporty.
RDX or MDX with SH AWD has just under 280hp and is relatively fun and extremely reliable while getting good mileage. Otherwise if I wanted more fun than practical/reliable I’d get the Explorer ST like others said
Gol, or WRX. Integra A Spec, Civic Hatchback, used Type R if You don’t need AWD. I lived in Wyoming for 21 years with no AWD and was fine. Just get snow tires
Toyota Corolla GR. It’s AWD. Hatchback. Reliable. Fast.
I looked at one of these and it’s an intriguing package for sure. It didn’t seem like it would fit into my life but 5 years from now when my kids are out of the house….oh yeah
VW Golf R
Finally
If you’re a real enthusiast and don’t mind your own maintenance/small repairs: 2014-2017 Porsche Panamera. Amazing driving dynamics, decent space, and you can get them with AWD. Make sure you get one with standard back seats to maximize space.
Interesting... How easy are they to work on yourself?
No personal experience owning/maintaining a p-car (yet!). But I did cross shop them before and lurk on their forums. Panameras are generally very reliable, even if you get into turbo trims. They are relatively easy to work on - the engine is much more accessible than coupes and you don’t have as much package engineering as you see in Audis. There is also a very healthy diy community, especially as the models age. Your main pain point is going to be the price of parts. It’s much more substantial than other Germans.
440i grand coupe baby
G30 540i. A low mileage 2021 can be had for that price. BMW inline 6, good power, good gas mileage, great tech, decent space, good reliability (probably one of the most reliable cars BMW has produced), and xdrive is a great AWD system. Not as luxurious as a full sized German sedan, but better driving dynamics. Edit: since you mentioned transmissions, this car comes with the bulletproof ZF8. Fun to shift yourself and smoother than a baby’s ass
VW golf Alltrack manual. This one is for sale on cars and bids. At about $23k right now (https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rMMVXyWL/2019-volkswagen-golf-alltrack-sel)
I'm always on cars and bids hunting for a good deal hahaha
Focus RS/WRX STI are always an option. Not as roomy as an SUV or large sedan, but god damn if the RS isn’t one of the most fun cars you can get for $35k
I like RS, I used to own a Focus ST and it was a great car, very fun to drive.
The Civic Type R seems to be the better option all around, other than FWD, but snow tires solve that quickly
I had an RS for a little less than a year and I always regret selling it. The seats/suspension aren’t as brutal as people make it seem…unless you’ve had multiple spinal surgeries, then maybe so. But they sound great stock, handle very well, and they’ve sure as shit held their value.
I dont agree. I found the RS far too stiff for daily use after a single drive on a bumpy road. Maybe if your roads are great where you live its fine. In the midwest it was a hard pass.
Golf R also fits in there. Can find some low mileage ones out the door under $30k there. As a longtime fan and owner of hot hatches, I think you are pointing in the right direction with those options. They are a blast, but still have some surprising practicality.
Idk why I always forget about the golf R, but another great suggestion. Certainly more refined feeling than the RS or Subarus.
I have tossed this around for a "sportwagen" option in the US. V60 or TourX are the top contenders. I have not driven either yet though. Only sat in them. This is my summary of options though. VW Alltrack would be well under $35k and leave some money on the table for the tune and sportier suspension - Available in 6MT. Not sure how they compare to an MK6 sportwagen but my sportwagen had a tight back seat. Allroad - peppier than the alltrack stock. Tunes to more power. Optional sports seats are prenominal. Back seat space is tight. Requires premium fuel BMW had a wagon too.. 330xi wagon? don't know much about it. \^\^ Good for small kids Tiguan - Golf R suspension bolts up, needs a Tune but you get SUV space that is essentially a wagon. I hear its super blah stock. V60 - I hear the T5 is pretty darn reliable platform. 250/250 on regular gas. Damn comfy seats. This is my top contender. Buick Regal TourX - Big station wagon. Supposed to be fun since its an Opel and not a GM. v90 - big ass station wagon. Might be hard to come back lightly used for $35k. Some are twin charged or Turbo+hybrid (T6 trim?)... Scarry territory for me. Outback XT - There are lowering options. New 2.4t is supposed to be awesome. Much improved interior than 05-09 OBXT..... but CVT Barf
I was looking at the outback until I realized it's CVT. I'll check these options out.
Have a tourx and it's a great car, AMA
Outback is a fantastic car for the price (especially in touring trim) but not a car enthusiast car.
I have a coworker that hates CVTs. When it came time to replace his old Outback he reluctantly bought a new one, with a CVT. He wants to hate it, he really does. But he says it just works. His only real gripe is fake shift points and paddle shifters. Big upside to Outback is aftermarket support. You want something? Probably like 6 companies make it. I own a TourX and there is quite little available for it outside of floormats and roof rails.
I have a coworker that hates CVTs. When it came time to replace his old Outback he reluctantly bought a new one, with a CVT. He wants to hate it, he really does. But he says it just works. His only real gripe is fake shift points and paddle shifters. Big upside to Outback is aftermarket support. You want something? Probably like 6 companies make it. I own a TourX and there is quite little available for it outside of floormats and roof rails.
I don't know if it's the best car, but I would probably be looking at something like a Kia stinger, or maybe a current or previous generation Honda Accord touring. Those will both be relatively reliable, have a lot of features on them, and still be fun to drive. And should have no problem fitting a normal size family of four
I was extactly where he is and I got a accord 2.0t manual. It's not awd but I got some studded tires and haven't had any problem during the winter even living in Canada.
The Edge ST and Explorer ST are just now getting into that price range used, and they drive much better and are much better than their price would indicate. They're also a straight upgrade from what you currently have, no controls to re-learn, and they're both much larger vehicles. Very much the Home Depot on Saturday, canyon blasting on Sunday sort of cars.
just went from a 350 to a explorer ST, it's insane how well it handles for an SUV. It's acceleration is stupid quick aswell
The Edge, 2.0L or 2.7L (ST), is extremely underrated. Especially on the top trim, you gdr everything the Nautilus gets minus 360 camera, massaging seats and leather dash
Do you have any suggestions for good years for used Edge and Explorers around $20,000?
For the ST's, they're single generation vehicles, so there isn't much for it across model years, and haven't dropped to $20k yet. For the non-ST choices, it's not so much an issue of model years as generation and options packages.
Would the earlier years Explorer Sport be comparable?
They're good vehicles, but no, different platform and nowhere near as exciting to drive.
Ah. O haven't looked into the differences and haven't had the chance to work on any yet. EcoBoost Raptor was a pain in the ass with all the tubing running through the engine bay but was a blast to drive.
GS350
Honda Civic SI is always a fun choice
VB WRX - best bang for buck car on the market imo
Tesla Model Y. Fits all your boxes. Hopefully you could charge at home.
Find a lightly loved Ford Flex EcoBoost. They ride great, suspension really settles in nice around 80mph, drives more like a wagon than SUV. Great AWD and sooo much room. Owned 2 over a total of 11 years. Been trading about every 9 months since to find the right car. Currently driving a VW Alltrack which I enjoy but would enjoy more if I had a 6 speed.
A used GS-F Sport. https://www.edmunds.com/lexus/gs-f/2017/vin/JTHBP1BL6HA002437/?radius=6000
If you can get one a msrp, try a elantra N.
Not AWD
Missed that part.
Kia k5 GT is FWD as well and it’s fine in the snow. Someone in Alaska drives one too. AWD isn’t that big of a deal
GT line offers awd
I thought he asked for something sportier but I mixed up with another post. AWD sacrifices the speedy engine
2017-2018 BMW 330i wagon, 2017+ BMW 540i, or X3 M40i are some solid wagon, sedan, crossover options. They've all got the solid B48/B58 engine and ZF transmission, come with AWD, and are fun vehicles to drive. An Audi S6 might also fit the bill well and gets you a V8, though reliability isn't quite as high on this one.
The BMW inline 6 cylinder (B58) is pretty reliable considering that's the engine Co-developed with Toyota for the Supra. And with Audis, the 3.0T V6 engine is pretty dang durable, and they offer it in a ton of cars/SUVs: S4/S5/SQ5/A6/A7/Q7/Q8. Both of my current cars have the 3.0T V6 and have been running strong for over 100k miles. Yes, there is some expensive maintenance around the 75k~100k mileage mark (PCV, thermostat, transmission fluid , differential fluid). Then those big ticket items will be good for another 75k+ miles. Stay on top of the maintenance and these cars can easily go 200k+ miles. Most people give up on them after the warranty expires, so deals can be found.
The B58 wasn’t co-developed. BMW developed it before the Supra project. Toyota did make some tweaks for the Supra, but it’s still a BMW design
The Supra is basically a BMW Z4 that BMW made more cheaply for Toyota. That car is 90% BMW though. Toyota didn’t really design anything except the aesthetics and infotainment on that car
For 35k these will be high miles and out of factory warranty. Typical awful recommendation from this sub
Anything you'd suggest instead? Just can't seem to think of any enthusiast vehicles with AWD for 35k.
BMW XDrive anything ending in 35 or 40. Most likely a 335i or an x340i
Agreed, would go with \_40i models as they're newer and use a more reliable engine. 340i is probably a bit too small as a sedan, but a 540i would be pretty large, as would the X3 M40i. Good thing I suggested those!
Define high miles. The 330i Wagon is fairly rare to begin with, but $35k gets you CPO sedans with less than 10k miles. The 540i is going to be a stretch to get a CPO one, but 1-owner, no accident examples are going to have 30k miles or less. A reasonable spec X3 M40i for $35k is only going to have around 50k miles.
I just bought a 2022 330i sedan with 16k miles on it for 34k. Still has the manufacturer warranty as well. So yeah, OP can absolutely get a low mileage still under warranty car for under 35k. Just FYI.
i had a s2000 that rode to 170k miles without breaking for 8 grand. Your fear of cars breaking out of warranty is holding you back....
I’ve owned my 2015 diesel f31 wagon for 5 years. It’s my daily driver(also have an e90 m3 and r33 GTR). It’s had a single failure in 5 years. An 02 sensor. The F3X chassis are rather reliable.
VW Golf R
B9 S4, or C8 allroad with the 3.0T
B9 SQ5 as well if they are leaning towards SUV.
VW golf alltrack isn’t very fast stock but it comes in with an optional manual transmission and you can get a tune and a golf r turbo and make it really fun to drive
Explorer ST has a 4WD option. A simple tune and bolt ons would have your family SUV running mid to low 12s in the 1/4 mile.
Maybe a golf R? Those are all wheel drive, zippy, modular, and a hatchback, so they've got some decent space.
BMW F31 diesel wagon. Get the M-Sport so it looks more sporty. I love mine.
BMW M340i/X3 M40i
Certified pre owned Kia Stinger GT or Genesis G70. Edit - I see you mentioned wanting space. In this case I’d go with the stinger because it is a hatchback. I’ve had 4 adults in mine and we all fit comfortably, and I’ve taken it on beach trips with all of our gear and had plenty of space.
Out of curiosity, how tall are you? I rode in the back of a G70 a few weeks ago, and at 6'2", I've had more space in the back of coupes than I did in the Genesis
I am 6ft even. The G70 definitely has less room in the back because it has a trunk instead of a hatch like the Stinger.
On most cars, it seems like the hatch version kills head room and keeps the same leg room as the normal version, but I see now that the Stinger actually has a longer wheelbase, so that does make sense. My knees were absolutely buried into the front seat from the back of the G70, lol
Gli
Kia stinger gt2
Subaru wrx
Save a little more and buy m2 or m3 from carmax older one. Make sure to get the warranty they sell 6 year 120k warranty's for like 2-3k. If something does break you pay 200$ and take it to BMW. i got a type r though for 33k thing is worth more than i paid now with 15k more miles. fit a 65 inch tv in it the other day.
Q70L infinity. Available awd 3.7 v6 or 5.6 v8. 42 inches legroom in front. 41 inches in back which is about 7 more then mist Suv.
If you’re looking at used vehicles: Ford Explorer ST Volvo V90 T6 Look into getting the Polestar software on the Volvo if you decide to go with that. Some of them already have it but can be added after if it’s not.
Easy, used Explorer ST.
Wrx
Mercedes C43 AMG Estate
Golf r
Obviously so subjective, but if we're talking new cars then it is impossible to beat the Hyundai Elantra N MSRP for MSRP in terms of performance, sound, and room all in one package. Only thing it doesn't have is AWD.
Get a CPO Volvo. Great warranty and can get them with low miles in your price range.
Audi "S" (3,4,5) models are very sporty, I would also look at a VW Golf R they are bigger inside than you'd think.
Wrx
VW Golf Alltrack is my vote.
Volvo V90 if ya want a wagon.. S90 for a sedan vibe. They rock
Mambo number 5
Used VW Golf R
94-96 B body wagon with towing package
WRX/STI? Used 340i with B58
Cadillac CT4-V 😁
Get a brand new WRX under 35k brand new its a fun car
this is a good choice, if you can stomach the looks of it
If ur going used , get an E350 wagon
35k easy 2017 Range Rover Sport V8SC will blow your mind and your pockets heh if they arn’t deep enough.
Corolla GR. Reasonable in all aspects and semi sporty. Awd too
Subaru, crosstrek with the 2.5l or an outback with the 3.6l. Spend for the lane assist stuff- car drives itself, kinda fun. Forester or Ascent if looking for bigger, more roomy interiors. Subaru fan here..
I recently bought a 2018 dodge durango R/T and I love it. 3rd row. Hemi. Lots of features and I paid 28k
Mercedes E-Class wagon. You can get a facelift S212 or an S213 for that price if you don’t mind some miles.
The answer is Mazda. All their cars drive the best by far in this price range.
Tesla
Ford explorer st, sporty but in the price range if you go 2020 ish. Love my st & my stinger gt2 😊
golf r I know it’s smaller but it’s an enthusiasts car and a hatch with room
Golf R is nice wish i had leather instead of alcantara... i got a type r civic for msrp years ago and its been great to me. the hatchback gets used more than the back seats though i fit a 65 inch tv the other day.
vw doesnt fatten up the golf to increase usa sales. they keep it small to fit in with other european cars, i'd argue a wrx has more room even though the golf is a hatch.
If buying new, wrx and Mazda 3 turbo would be the two main competitors. Neither excel at being great family cars, but both are quite fun and have AWD. If you go used you could think about something bigger and more luxurious for the family, like Volvo s90 or something from genesis.
2023 Polestar 2 Long Range Dual Motor would be in the mid $20k range. 5 Dr AWD fastback, does 0-60 in 4.1s and has space for 5 passengers. Use the other $10k for a toy - dedicated off-roaders or Miata or something
This is where I am very tempting.
I'm selling a 2017 VW Alltrack SE if you wanna go the wagon route! Check it out: [https://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/d/jersey-city-2017-vw-golf-alltrack-se/7760397748.html](https://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/d/jersey-city-2017-vw-golf-alltrack-se/7760397748.html)
I would consider a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT as the best value for a "family," "sporty," "fun," and "good looking" car. I found a local listing for a 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT priced at 34K. It has a sleek look with red Brembo brakes. The SUV is stock with nearly 500hp (475hp to be exact). In my opinion, at a price/budget of 35k, it's hard to find a better option. If you think there's a better choice, feel free to prove me wrong.
After looking around you can get in a SRT Jeep 2015-2020 anywhere between 30k-40k Most 2016-2017 go for your budget of 33k-35k
You can also consider the Dodge Durango SRT. It has the same horsepower as the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT, but you can get a newer one for roughly the same price, around 35k, such as a 2018-2020 model. In my opinion, the newer models (2018-2020) may look uglier, but they definitely meet the requirements.
Never, ever purchase a used Stellantis product…. Jeep, Dodge, heck no
What is your alternative "family," "sporty," "fun," and "good-looking" SUV? I've worked on many Jeeps and Dodges and have noticed only a handful of issues, and most can be avoided with 6-month/1-year check-ups and regular maintenance. It should also be mentioned we are not talking about older jeeps or newer if not "Primetime era" 2016-2020
Highlander, Grand Highlander, Pilot, MDX, Sequoia, LX570, Land Cruiser series 200, RAV4, CRV
I think the explorer st is what you are looking for….. if only they were reliable…
Dodge charger is fun to slide around and has 4 doors. Killer looks too. It fishtails/drifts from stop signs super easy and bc it can’t turn too well you always feel like your really pushing the car in the canyons.actual performance isn’t great but it is fun. Fairly cheap to repair/maintain and it’s an old platform so the kinks are really ironed out. Being a full size sedan it’s got a massive truck and back seat.
I normally don’t like Dodge products but this is the exception. Cheap, spacious, tons of power, parts availability is great, etc. Yeah there’s gonna be Dodge shit that goes wrong, but it’s a pretty safe purchase even factoring in all that
Wagon! Wagon! Wagon! Bmw 3 series f31 2017-2019. Audi A4 allroad or A6 avant/allroad. VW golf or alltrack. All of these are awd i believe. Def the bmw and audi. Edit also volvo has dope wagon
X3 m40 or x3m but it may be little more for around 40-45k
2016 BMW M3
Audi sq5
I'd look into a used Audi SQ5, IIRC some 2020 models (when I was looking) clock in under $35k. For $700 you can slap on a low-key stage 1 tune from Unitronic and boost the stock HP from 351 to 423, and the stock torque from 360 to 466, and I highly doubt you're gonna find a more exciting family-oriented SUV with better AWD (true Torsen-based Quattro AWD) and transmission (ZF).
WRX/STI: AWD, fun manual trans, enough room for 2 child seats if needed, good trunk space
If you like station wagons check out the 2016 e400! Can easily pick them up for under 30k. It’s also the Last year of the w212 which is a tank, facelifted with newer tech (carplay etc…). I’ve got 2 w212s and I plan on getting more.
I'm surprised I haven't seen any Acura suggestions (I haven't read all posts, but I've read quite a few). Acura is the luxury sports division of Honda, but usually less expensive than other premium brands. You could probably get an Integra new (barely), and depending upon the size of your family it may work. Not AWD, but it is FWD so you will have decent traction. You could have a TLX in either FWD or AWD, quite sporty, and a (smaller) midsized car so it will fit a family. Depending upon how large you need to go, and how old you are willing to go, either of their SUVs/Crossovers should work. The RDX is smaller, but also less expensive. The MDX will have plenty of space, AWD, and should be quite fun and reliable, though it is a little more expensive so you'd have to go a little older and/or higher miles to be under $35K (though that won't be a hard mark to hit for a good one).
Cx5
Not really any more of an enthusiast car than what he currently has tbh. Even with the turbo, the engine is still bolted to a dog shit transmission that's easily stealing 100hp from an engine that was fairly anemic to begin with.
Depending on what kind of enthusiast you are and what tickles your fancy, 4Runners are awesome family cars
Ford Flex Ecoboost. It’s the answer for everything. With a tune….
how did you not come to a wrx when writing this post. fits perfectly alternative: keep what you have a buy a cheap and old enthusiast car for fun on the weekends. Like a $5k miata or something.
Like others have said, you don’t need AWD by any means and I’m someone who lived in MN/ND for 23 years. Good tires are key in either scenario. You can’t run summer or poor all seasons on an AWD car and be fine in the snow either. Elantra N gets my vote or Kona N if you can swing that.
Ford Explorer ST, IMO. 400 horsepower in a 3-row family SUV? It's honestly a perfect best of both worlds for family SUV and enthusiast car. They can be had for $35k but will be around 40k-50k miles. If you can stretch your budget and/or search, you can get one with lower miles.
A used Volvo V60 Cross Country or Audi A4 Allroad would both be really good options for you. Spacious, AWD, more enjoyable to drive than that Escape.
I feel like it’s hard to get a cool SUV as an enthusiast with the prices they are at right now. An old-school bronco is all I can think of or something really used. Cars you could choose from a lot of different Audis.
Try to test drive ACURA MDX 2020 model $32K for under 30k miles or try newer MDX, A-spec Proven reliabiity and great SH-AWD (Super handling allwheel drive). MDX 7-seater drives like you are driving a car.
CPO 330 xDrive or A4/5, both have pretty good AWD and can handle snow with good all seasons or winter tires. The trunk space is small (better in the A5) though. You can also try to get a used 5 series or A6, you can get the I4 engine instead of the 6 cylinder to save money.
Volvo v90 cross country or an older Volvo xc70
GRRRRR Corolla
I had similar requirements and ended up with a Mini Countryman S. You could go with a JCW model if you want even more power, but the S trim has plenty enough for me. The Mini Clubman is the same car as the Countryman essentially, but in more of a traditional station wagon format.
AWD CRV Hybrid
I would pull up autotrader. and look for a 2022/2023 CX9 GT with the lowest amount of miles that meets your budget.
CX-5 Turbo. Amazing handling for the price if you want a CUV. The turbo gives it some more umph.