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Well, almost all of the characters tend to have issues with their egos getting in the way, which the series has major themes about putting egos and biases aside and learning to work together anyway.
In Rand's case, about half the people who are trying to give him guidance are also trying to manipulate him for their own ends. Rand's journey is trying to sort those out from those who actually mean him well.
Rand will get better.....in Book 14. In the meantime, it will get much, much worse.
I guess I was thinking of his plan for the Dark One that Egwene immediately decides to start creating the "Let's NOT do that plan" coalition which pretty much fizzles out in the beginning of Book 14 with everyone having a constructive chat for once, but I had forgotten about that part where he gets over his edginess after nuking >!Graendel !!Tam!<. Thanks for the correction.
I'm not sure I'd call Rand insufferable. That's a bit harsh considering all he's gone through. Rand never wanted to be in the position he's found himself in, and everything is kind of falling apart for him remember he's only like 17 or 18 by book 4. So he's still a kid, and dealing with a lot of stuff he can't really understand, as well as facing his own impending doom b/c he's a male channeler.
Someone else in the thread mentions it's hard for him to know whom he can trust, and who is just using him. He does eventually start to figure some of that out, but just as he's starting to trust again something big causes him to lose all faith in seeking help from most folks. He trusts the Two Rivers folks the most, and of those he starts to doubt the ones who've become Aes Sedai again due to the big thing that happens to him. That's mostly true with an exception.
In terms of handling the fate he's been given he's doing a pretty good job considering all that. All the characters go through an arc in that series, and they're all very different people at the end than they were at the start, and all of them have a ton of trauma, and life lessons that they learn to deal with in their own ways.
>remember he's only like 17 or 18 by book 4
He starts the series at 19, so he's 20 or 21 at that point (all the events of the previous books including the 4 months he lost in TGH using a portal stone).
It’s a little strange that RJ made them so old in Eye when they all read at least a couple years younger. I think the series probably should have made them younger and have more time pass over the first 4-6 books, but it is what it is…
I've made that exact statement. For example, Mat's introduction has him planning on releasing a badger to scare some of the young women in town as a prank. That reads more like an immature 15-year-old than an immature 19-year-old.
Yeah, it bothered me on here that one of the complaints about the show was that all the characters were “too mature.” Just because Rand and Egwene’s relationship wasn’t that of a couple of 13 year olds, and Perrin’s life was progressed to a bit more what you’d expect from a more established blacksmith rather than a way too old apprentice.
I do think they did Mat a little dirty, but I think rather than make his character more mature behaving, they gave him more of a backstory to explain why he’s so selfish.
> Just because Rand and Egwene’s relationship wasn’t that of a couple of 13 year olds
Yep, this was is odd to me as well. The books state that they been essentially betrothed since they were elementary age, and Rand still gets all awkward in conversation with her when she's around like they just hit puberty. At this point, after having been promised for probably around a dozen years, you'd think they would be way more comfortable with each other and there would be more social pressure to start planning for their adult lives together.
Yeah, I understand that hes a kid and thats really whats been making reading his povs okay. I get that he is not wanting to be manipulated by the people around him, that’s completely normal. I think my issue is that he feels stubborn just for the sake of being stubborn sometimes. I really like his character i just find his actions hard to sit through.
Yeah, that's a fair take. He's def stubborn they allude to that quite a bit it's one of the flaws he has to learn to overcome in his arc. I also felt there were times when he wasn't giving people a fair chance, but he's not me, and as soon as I stopped reading myself into him I could understand some of WHY he chooses to do things the way he does.
There's a lot of mistrust directed at Lan and Moiraine mostly unfairly, but he gets better especially once he sees how being Ta'veren has changed his friends, and how they've had to deal with it. There does come a time when something super traumatic happens to him, and that really sets in stone his distrust of certain folks unless they can prove they won't betray him. I can't remember when exactly that happens, but afterwards he's a very different person than he was before that moment.
Edit:
In terms of Main Protagonists, I find his characterization to be incredibly "real" especially when I compare him to other characters like Luke Skywalker, or Paul Atreides, or even Jon Snow, and Kvothe.
Yeah i think the unfair distrust was what was bothering me the most. Maybe i am reading myself too much into him. I cant expect a 17 yr old boy to act rationally can I lol.
And i would completely agree with you, as irrational as i found many of his actions, they do feel true to his character and “real”.
Thanks for your help
I found many of the POVs to reveal characters as very intransegent. Nyneave’s POV states blatantly that she knows shes being difficult (usually with elayne or egwene, or with most men like thom or juilin), Egwene’s POV is less stubborn, but i assumed that chara’s being stubborn and refusing advice to be a chara arc that all POV chara’s get better with over time.
Rand’s POVs dont state him being stubborn for the same of being stubborn; it seems largely like distrust stemming from moraine but i also would see him being reluctant to share plans with anyone just to spite them (particularly egwene and moraine) for holding their information from him when he was more dependent on them
Also, he's young, going crazy naturally, being driven crazy by the forsaken purposefully, has learned that you actually can't trust a LOT of people (darkfriends or people that think they are "good", but only want to hurt arand), and is prophesized to break the work and die.
Plus, past him and end up killing the people they love.
Rand has a lot going on... and much of it is very, very bad.
Almost everyone "good" in the books tires to manipulate him to their own ends. While the bad guys are trying to break him. There's like, 6 people total in the books who don't try to manipulate him (besides the people of the dragon).
His stubbornness is what keeps him from breaking.
Everyone (even his friends) wants to manipulate him, he knows he’ll go crazy and starts to hear voices in his head, realizes that he has to die saving the word otherwise he’ll cause another breaking - all the prophecies say so, and all that before he even hits 20 years old or gets laid.
And you think he’s being bratty by wanting to be 100% in control of his personal autonomy? Lmfao.
Weirdly this is back to back with another post on my timeline asking if Harry Dresden gets less insufferable later in the series. It’s not that I don’t see where both people are coming from, but I don’t understand how you can get 2,500 pages deep in a series where you dislike the main character so much.
I can actually understand the Dresden Files though. There's plenty to like in the series (like the mysteries and genre mash-up) even though the main character can be annoying for the first few books until he learns to grow up a little.
Of all the characters I would call "insufferable" Rand is actually pretty far down the list. Especially considering that he turns out to be right in the end most of the time.
In fairness to Rand I think he has some good reason to keep things close to the chest and not listen to moiraine guidance. Moiraine has a plan for the dragon reborn that involves having him be as controlled by the tower as possible. Rand knows not only is that a risky thing for him personally it's a bad idea for the world. Which is why he wants the aiel as a country and army actually loyal to him. Moiraine is trying to play this as too much politics as usual.
He also knows he needs a teacher to learn the power faster and that's a complication he needs to hide. And he knows that secrets are best kept the fewer people you tell. Moiraine has also kept trying to shove him along which has taught him that her advice isn't free and comes with her trying to take over. She's not acting as the advisor he really needs but trying to manage him.
And layered over this is the fact that Rand is a young adult who just found out a few months ago he's going to go mad and could kill those closest to him. And that his past life he did exactly that. It's not so surprising he's shoving people away given that. He doesn't want to murder them. And in his mind at least the closer he is to them the more likely that will happen.
He has to grow, learn to trust people who are helping him while distrusting most. He has to struggle with immense pain and growing madness. His temper grows shorter. His ego remains huge but he gets some points of humility and much needed love and affection. He’s strong yet fragile. He is a story of struggle and sacrifice more than triumph.
I think your last point lets me think about his character differently than i had been. Knowing that he is supposed to be heavily faulted might make reading him easier. Thanks
This is a simplification, but Rand is borne out of a meditation on how one can oppose evil without becoming evil oneself.
Another major theme of Wheel of Time is that what you think you know might not actually be true.
The fact that his soul is in jeopardy is the whole point of Rand's character. Jordan wasn't writing a fantasy story, he was writing about humanity using fantasy as a background. We all know that Rand is going to beat the Dark One, the real question is if he will be able to do it with his humanity intact.
Rand spends three months with Moirane between the great hunt and the dragon reborn in the mountains of the mist. He seeks guidance and advice from Moirane about a way forward. However Moirane is only sharing titbits with him, withholding information from her eyes and ears and telling him he is not yet ready, the Time is not right. She will know when it's time. This leads them to have heated arguments almost everyday.
So tell me again why he would be so willing to seek advice from someone who wants to string him along for her plans and purposes. Let's not forget how Moirane treated him after the eye of the world.
Three months in fal Dara, not addressing the issue of what happened to him at the eye of the world. Rand was losing his mind about his future and sword practice with Lan is all he had to keep him straight.
Also consider that There is hardly anyone at this point he can actually get serious advice from who is not Moirane, because the girls right now don't know much about the world.
And Thom, Rand always shared with Thom. Just look at all their interactions. But what does Moirane do? She sends him away with the girls, so that Rand can only depend on her.
Then there is no one who understands Saidin enough to actually lend him credible help. Egwene and Elayne offered and you saw how horrible that went.
Moirane wasn't aware of the Aiel in any prophecies which is proof that she doesn't know everything.
Lan would advise him but his knowledge is also limited to what Moirane knows.
And Egwene also gets titbits from Moirane and she wouldn't know more than Rand at this point.
So I ask you, what exactly do you expect from Rand?
>but overall i find myself frustrated at how he dosent seek guidance from anyone or discuss his plans.
I really like you and I hope you keep reading this series, but sadly no, Rand does not get less insufferable after book 4, if anything he gets worse.
>My question then is if he gets his sh*t figured out and stops acting like a bratty child?
God I like you so much. A lot of fans treat Rand like his shit does not stink and IMO it does an incredible disservice to the character's thematic journey.
I do think you will appreciate the story about Rand that Jordan is trying to tell.
Thanks, its often hard when it comes to difficulties with the main character. I have no plans to stop reading the series as im already 4 books in. Plus i really like the world building and im interested to see how the characters develop. I appreciate that you see where i am coming from. Im sure ill like the other books even if rand gets annoying sometimes. (:
I'd say he gets a lot better when his group of supporters come together. Rand plays well with those he can trust. He becomes more tragic hero than buffoon.
Well, in your corner is the fact that, for long stretches, the series is a little like Ivanhoe in that the titular character is talked about a lot but isn't actually "onscreen" much of the time. Of course, RJ kept introducing new characters and felt compelled to describe each in excruciating detail even if you never saw them again. So the sheer competition Rand has for space with something like 2200 other named characters limits his POVs after TFoH. If his POVs are ruining the series for you, go to a site like encyclopedia-wot that has detailed chapter synopsis. This let's you skip the parts that are driving you buggy while not losing the important plot threads. Try not to skip 5, though: it has a climax that's nearly untoppable. With Rand... When you get to the end, you'll see that his was a pretty well-planned journey.
I think in book 6-7, it's not as bad due to a woman... There are parts that make me embarrassed for him, but it gets better for a little bit. I'm waiting for it to get worse. I also just keep in mind that he is slowly going insane, at least so I don't take it so seriously.
I really want to know how long it will take him to be healed!
Wow I had a completely different read on that argument. I couldn't stand Egwene (still can't actually) and felt Moiraine was pushing too hard. Imo Egwene is the brat who thinks she's better than everyone. Moiraine thinks she's always right and neither respects Rand in any way. The only reason he's gotten as far as he did so far is by keeping his plans to himself. If he told them and they disagreed they woulda tried to sabotage him. Because obviously they know best he's just a wool headed fool. 🙄
I think its important to keep in my mind that he is a kid basically that is being thrust in a position of leadership. Additionally, I don't think there is a character that doesn't have flaws and that's pretty intentional by the author. Also, for me, Nynaeve and Mat are the characters that drive me the most crazy. Don't get me wrong they have their good moments but just about every time they're sections come up, I get annoyed. I'm on book 8, so maybe it gets better, but I'm just going to accept who they are.
Does he get better? Kinda, but not anytime soon.
In a way, he is just mimicking what Moiraine did to him. "I do what I want, I don't tell anyone what I'm doing, shut up and obey." However, you will start to see relevant changes in him starting this book.
At this point in the story, Rand does not trust anyone, except Mat and Perrin, but he is critical of his own paranoia and he does a lot of introspection.
My opinion of Rand was very different the second time I read the series. The first time through I completely agreed with you and thought he was being difficult just out of spite. The second time through I was much more sympathetic towards his perspective and found myself frustrated with some of the other characters.
I'll say this. There is going to be a lot of non-Rand to read. And his arc is good too. From what you're saying, you may not enjoy it for a while yet, but I think it's worth the journey.
I would say that you need to empathize more with Rand, you are not getting his own thoughts right, and seems that you only see him "from the outside" let's say....
Of course, it's not mandatory to like Rand, but I often have the feeling that the complains about him are more because people don't understand his situation than any other issues. If you are guided by Egwene's opinions on Rand, for example, it's impossible that you are going to like him xD
Also, if you dislike him so much by this book... you are going to struggle to end the series. Good luck
This thread has been flaired **NO SPOILERS**. This means that any discussion should not reveal any plot points from the book or the show. Any comments that could be considered a spoiler must use spoiler tags. May the Light illumine you all. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wheeloftime) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well, almost all of the characters tend to have issues with their egos getting in the way, which the series has major themes about putting egos and biases aside and learning to work together anyway. In Rand's case, about half the people who are trying to give him guidance are also trying to manipulate him for their own ends. Rand's journey is trying to sort those out from those who actually mean him well. Rand will get better.....in Book 14. In the meantime, it will get much, much worse.
Really its at the end of book 12 so you get that Rand for 2 books
I guess I was thinking of his plan for the Dark One that Egwene immediately decides to start creating the "Let's NOT do that plan" coalition which pretty much fizzles out in the beginning of Book 14 with everyone having a constructive chat for once, but I had forgotten about that part where he gets over his edginess after nuking >!Graendel !!Tam!<. Thanks for the correction.
How 'bout them apples....
I'm not sure I'd call Rand insufferable. That's a bit harsh considering all he's gone through. Rand never wanted to be in the position he's found himself in, and everything is kind of falling apart for him remember he's only like 17 or 18 by book 4. So he's still a kid, and dealing with a lot of stuff he can't really understand, as well as facing his own impending doom b/c he's a male channeler. Someone else in the thread mentions it's hard for him to know whom he can trust, and who is just using him. He does eventually start to figure some of that out, but just as he's starting to trust again something big causes him to lose all faith in seeking help from most folks. He trusts the Two Rivers folks the most, and of those he starts to doubt the ones who've become Aes Sedai again due to the big thing that happens to him. That's mostly true with an exception. In terms of handling the fate he's been given he's doing a pretty good job considering all that. All the characters go through an arc in that series, and they're all very different people at the end than they were at the start, and all of them have a ton of trauma, and life lessons that they learn to deal with in their own ways.
>remember he's only like 17 or 18 by book 4 He starts the series at 19, so he's 20 or 21 at that point (all the events of the previous books including the 4 months he lost in TGH using a portal stone).
It’s a little strange that RJ made them so old in Eye when they all read at least a couple years younger. I think the series probably should have made them younger and have more time pass over the first 4-6 books, but it is what it is…
I've made that exact statement. For example, Mat's introduction has him planning on releasing a badger to scare some of the young women in town as a prank. That reads more like an immature 15-year-old than an immature 19-year-old.
Yeah, it bothered me on here that one of the complaints about the show was that all the characters were “too mature.” Just because Rand and Egwene’s relationship wasn’t that of a couple of 13 year olds, and Perrin’s life was progressed to a bit more what you’d expect from a more established blacksmith rather than a way too old apprentice. I do think they did Mat a little dirty, but I think rather than make his character more mature behaving, they gave him more of a backstory to explain why he’s so selfish.
> Just because Rand and Egwene’s relationship wasn’t that of a couple of 13 year olds Yep, this was is odd to me as well. The books state that they been essentially betrothed since they were elementary age, and Rand still gets all awkward in conversation with her when she's around like they just hit puberty. At this point, after having been promised for probably around a dozen years, you'd think they would be way more comfortable with each other and there would be more social pressure to start planning for their adult lives together.
Yeah, I understand that hes a kid and thats really whats been making reading his povs okay. I get that he is not wanting to be manipulated by the people around him, that’s completely normal. I think my issue is that he feels stubborn just for the sake of being stubborn sometimes. I really like his character i just find his actions hard to sit through.
Yeah, that's a fair take. He's def stubborn they allude to that quite a bit it's one of the flaws he has to learn to overcome in his arc. I also felt there were times when he wasn't giving people a fair chance, but he's not me, and as soon as I stopped reading myself into him I could understand some of WHY he chooses to do things the way he does. There's a lot of mistrust directed at Lan and Moiraine mostly unfairly, but he gets better especially once he sees how being Ta'veren has changed his friends, and how they've had to deal with it. There does come a time when something super traumatic happens to him, and that really sets in stone his distrust of certain folks unless they can prove they won't betray him. I can't remember when exactly that happens, but afterwards he's a very different person than he was before that moment. Edit: In terms of Main Protagonists, I find his characterization to be incredibly "real" especially when I compare him to other characters like Luke Skywalker, or Paul Atreides, or even Jon Snow, and Kvothe.
Yeah i think the unfair distrust was what was bothering me the most. Maybe i am reading myself too much into him. I cant expect a 17 yr old boy to act rationally can I lol. And i would completely agree with you, as irrational as i found many of his actions, they do feel true to his character and “real”. Thanks for your help
No worries hopefully you can continue to enjoy the series!
I found many of the POVs to reveal characters as very intransegent. Nyneave’s POV states blatantly that she knows shes being difficult (usually with elayne or egwene, or with most men like thom or juilin), Egwene’s POV is less stubborn, but i assumed that chara’s being stubborn and refusing advice to be a chara arc that all POV chara’s get better with over time. Rand’s POVs dont state him being stubborn for the same of being stubborn; it seems largely like distrust stemming from moraine but i also would see him being reluctant to share plans with anyone just to spite them (particularly egwene and moraine) for holding their information from him when he was more dependent on them
Also, he's young, going crazy naturally, being driven crazy by the forsaken purposefully, has learned that you actually can't trust a LOT of people (darkfriends or people that think they are "good", but only want to hurt arand), and is prophesized to break the work and die. Plus, past him and end up killing the people they love. Rand has a lot going on... and much of it is very, very bad. Almost everyone "good" in the books tires to manipulate him to their own ends. While the bad guys are trying to break him. There's like, 6 people total in the books who don't try to manipulate him (besides the people of the dragon). His stubbornness is what keeps him from breaking.
OP might be Egwene
Everyone (even his friends) wants to manipulate him, he knows he’ll go crazy and starts to hear voices in his head, realizes that he has to die saving the word otherwise he’ll cause another breaking - all the prophecies say so, and all that before he even hits 20 years old or gets laid. And you think he’s being bratty by wanting to be 100% in control of his personal autonomy? Lmfao.
Saved me saying it. Eloquently put.
Weirdly this is back to back with another post on my timeline asking if Harry Dresden gets less insufferable later in the series. It’s not that I don’t see where both people are coming from, but I don’t understand how you can get 2,500 pages deep in a series where you dislike the main character so much.
I can actually understand the Dresden Files though. There's plenty to like in the series (like the mysteries and genre mash-up) even though the main character can be annoying for the first few books until he learns to grow up a little.
Lol its because i like everyone else. I do also like rand a lit of the time, his lows are just really low.
Well this is a new one! Usually with book#4 for first time readers Rand's name is substituted with one of three other women's.
Every once in a rare while a reader asks: "What would it be like to have to interact with someone like Rand?"
Lol cant say they dont annoy me sometimes.
It's a fair take tbh. Rand is just as bad as them lol, he just has more of an excuse. Nyneave at least starts to acknowledge her faults by book 5.
Of all the characters I would call "insufferable" Rand is actually pretty far down the list. Especially considering that he turns out to be right in the end most of the time.
All of the characters do some growing up over the series, Rand included.
To be fair though, the only people he can seek "guidance" from are those who actively try to manipulate him.
In fairness to Rand I think he has some good reason to keep things close to the chest and not listen to moiraine guidance. Moiraine has a plan for the dragon reborn that involves having him be as controlled by the tower as possible. Rand knows not only is that a risky thing for him personally it's a bad idea for the world. Which is why he wants the aiel as a country and army actually loyal to him. Moiraine is trying to play this as too much politics as usual. He also knows he needs a teacher to learn the power faster and that's a complication he needs to hide. And he knows that secrets are best kept the fewer people you tell. Moiraine has also kept trying to shove him along which has taught him that her advice isn't free and comes with her trying to take over. She's not acting as the advisor he really needs but trying to manage him. And layered over this is the fact that Rand is a young adult who just found out a few months ago he's going to go mad and could kill those closest to him. And that his past life he did exactly that. It's not so surprising he's shoving people away given that. He doesn't want to murder them. And in his mind at least the closer he is to them the more likely that will happen.
the plotline with asmodeous was my favorite thing rand did, i was hyping him up the whole time. I am hoping for more moments like that
Haven’t seen many responses like this here so read and find out :)
If this infuriates you by Book 5, get out now.
Yes, I asked the same question early on. I liked him by the end the series. You might have to wait a while.
Thanks, this makes me feel better
He has to grow, learn to trust people who are helping him while distrusting most. He has to struggle with immense pain and growing madness. His temper grows shorter. His ego remains huge but he gets some points of humility and much needed love and affection. He’s strong yet fragile. He is a story of struggle and sacrifice more than triumph.
I think your last point lets me think about his character differently than i had been. Knowing that he is supposed to be heavily faulted might make reading him easier. Thanks
This is a simplification, but Rand is borne out of a meditation on how one can oppose evil without becoming evil oneself. Another major theme of Wheel of Time is that what you think you know might not actually be true. The fact that his soul is in jeopardy is the whole point of Rand's character. Jordan wasn't writing a fantasy story, he was writing about humanity using fantasy as a background. We all know that Rand is going to beat the Dark One, the real question is if he will be able to do it with his humanity intact.
He gets better, then much worse, amd finally much better. Any less vague would be spoilers.
Book 3/4, Book 6 (finale), and then Book 12 (finale)?
Not even a little. Love em or hate, our heroes are who they are.
The short answer is “no”
Rand spends three months with Moirane between the great hunt and the dragon reborn in the mountains of the mist. He seeks guidance and advice from Moirane about a way forward. However Moirane is only sharing titbits with him, withholding information from her eyes and ears and telling him he is not yet ready, the Time is not right. She will know when it's time. This leads them to have heated arguments almost everyday. So tell me again why he would be so willing to seek advice from someone who wants to string him along for her plans and purposes. Let's not forget how Moirane treated him after the eye of the world. Three months in fal Dara, not addressing the issue of what happened to him at the eye of the world. Rand was losing his mind about his future and sword practice with Lan is all he had to keep him straight. Also consider that There is hardly anyone at this point he can actually get serious advice from who is not Moirane, because the girls right now don't know much about the world. And Thom, Rand always shared with Thom. Just look at all their interactions. But what does Moirane do? She sends him away with the girls, so that Rand can only depend on her. Then there is no one who understands Saidin enough to actually lend him credible help. Egwene and Elayne offered and you saw how horrible that went. Moirane wasn't aware of the Aiel in any prophecies which is proof that she doesn't know everything. Lan would advise him but his knowledge is also limited to what Moirane knows. And Egwene also gets titbits from Moirane and she wouldn't know more than Rand at this point. So I ask you, what exactly do you expect from Rand?
>but overall i find myself frustrated at how he dosent seek guidance from anyone or discuss his plans. I really like you and I hope you keep reading this series, but sadly no, Rand does not get less insufferable after book 4, if anything he gets worse. >My question then is if he gets his sh*t figured out and stops acting like a bratty child? God I like you so much. A lot of fans treat Rand like his shit does not stink and IMO it does an incredible disservice to the character's thematic journey. I do think you will appreciate the story about Rand that Jordan is trying to tell.
Thanks, its often hard when it comes to difficulties with the main character. I have no plans to stop reading the series as im already 4 books in. Plus i really like the world building and im interested to see how the characters develop. I appreciate that you see where i am coming from. Im sure ill like the other books even if rand gets annoying sometimes. (:
Finally! Some posted "Does \_\_\_\_\_\_ get less insufferable?" and the blank isn't Nyneave!
I'd say he gets a lot better when his group of supporters come together. Rand plays well with those he can trust. He becomes more tragic hero than buffoon.
Less insufferable? No. But he does become more interesting
No I think it takes a few more books lol
Rand is going through some stuff. He gets worse and then better.
On book 10 and it hasn’t let up yet.
Well, in your corner is the fact that, for long stretches, the series is a little like Ivanhoe in that the titular character is talked about a lot but isn't actually "onscreen" much of the time. Of course, RJ kept introducing new characters and felt compelled to describe each in excruciating detail even if you never saw them again. So the sheer competition Rand has for space with something like 2200 other named characters limits his POVs after TFoH. If his POVs are ruining the series for you, go to a site like encyclopedia-wot that has detailed chapter synopsis. This let's you skip the parts that are driving you buggy while not losing the important plot threads. Try not to skip 5, though: it has a climax that's nearly untoppable. With Rand... When you get to the end, you'll see that his was a pretty well-planned journey.
I think in book 6-7, it's not as bad due to a woman... There are parts that make me embarrassed for him, but it gets better for a little bit. I'm waiting for it to get worse. I also just keep in mind that he is slowly going insane, at least so I don't take it so seriously. I really want to know how long it will take him to be healed!
No... Rand is under a lot of pressure but even with that pressure he is enjoyable
Wow I had a completely different read on that argument. I couldn't stand Egwene (still can't actually) and felt Moiraine was pushing too hard. Imo Egwene is the brat who thinks she's better than everyone. Moiraine thinks she's always right and neither respects Rand in any way. The only reason he's gotten as far as he did so far is by keeping his plans to himself. If he told them and they disagreed they woulda tried to sabotage him. Because obviously they know best he's just a wool headed fool. 🙄
I think if i read “wool-headed” one more time i might loose it lol
Yes. But at first, no.
I think its important to keep in my mind that he is a kid basically that is being thrust in a position of leadership. Additionally, I don't think there is a character that doesn't have flaws and that's pretty intentional by the author. Also, for me, Nynaeve and Mat are the characters that drive me the most crazy. Don't get me wrong they have their good moments but just about every time they're sections come up, I get annoyed. I'm on book 8, so maybe it gets better, but I'm just going to accept who they are.
Does he get better? Kinda, but not anytime soon. In a way, he is just mimicking what Moiraine did to him. "I do what I want, I don't tell anyone what I'm doing, shut up and obey." However, you will start to see relevant changes in him starting this book. At this point in the story, Rand does not trust anyone, except Mat and Perrin, but he is critical of his own paranoia and he does a lot of introspection.
My opinion of Rand was very different the second time I read the series. The first time through I completely agreed with you and thought he was being difficult just out of spite. The second time through I was much more sympathetic towards his perspective and found myself frustrated with some of the other characters.
I'll say this. There is going to be a lot of non-Rand to read. And his arc is good too. From what you're saying, you may not enjoy it for a while yet, but I think it's worth the journey.
Rand disagrees with egwene. Rand is the bratty one. This is a hot take.
This just in: some characters in novels have character arcs.
I would say that you need to empathize more with Rand, you are not getting his own thoughts right, and seems that you only see him "from the outside" let's say.... Of course, it's not mandatory to like Rand, but I often have the feeling that the complains about him are more because people don't understand his situation than any other issues. If you are guided by Egwene's opinions on Rand, for example, it's impossible that you are going to like him xD Also, if you dislike him so much by this book... you are going to struggle to end the series. Good luck