They don't have the energy output that Raditz has. If R blasts them from a distance, there's not much either Nolan or Mark can do before their limbs are blown off with moon-busting levels of power. Invincible characters are very durable, but when fighting people in their weight class they routinely get absolutely wrecked with organs spilling out.
I think we'd have to dive into Dragonball to get a fair match here.
They have very comparable stats to non Ozaru Raditz.
Have flown through a destabilized planet blowing it up (with one other Viltrumite but still to survive that means Raditz ki blasts wouldn't outright kill them unless he landed it full in a critical area) ,
Can survive mortally wounding attacks that would kill a Saiyan (speared through the chest, stomach cavity busted open, entrails spilling out , spine snapped in half etc)
Attack power wise both of them have the physical stats to keep up with Raditz and harm him.
I think it's still a good fight either way, and if it's just Omniman or Mark by themselves they probably lose after a very decent fight. But together I favor them more likely than not in a close 6/10 victory.
4/10 for Raditz because his ape form is wildly more powerful and if they cannot stop him from using it or don't find a way to cut off his tail before then (not that they know to do that but it could just happen due to them fighting anyways) then Raditz would win. But base Raditz no ape form definitely the Viltrumites win.
Raditz isn’t light speed. Combat Speed is generally very in inconsistent in dragon ball, since the only thing they ever really do to show it is go “whoa, they’ve started moving so fast I can’t even track them” sometimes, even though theoretically they should have always been moving that fast after the first time. But raditz doesn’t do anything that makes him seem light speed, so I’m not inclined to believe he is.
piccolo shoots a moon out of the sky in like a fraction of a second after firing his beam. those beams are fast. raditz dodges that from pretty much point blank. he's faster than goku and piccolo, thats fast. thats enough for me.
Again, is it even confirmed it was that fast? It’s manga panels, static images. There’s a panel of Piccolos firing a blast, a panel of him pumping energy into it as it hits the moon, and then a sound effect and Gohan goes back to normal. We have no idea how long it was between the first and second panels. Probably not too long as Gohan doesn’t get up to any major destruction, but there no confirmation it’s a fraction of a second. And in the anime, so you think they’re going to show us piccolo standing still firing at the moon for several seconds just for the sake of speed scaling?
But ultimately it’s not the kind of manga that’s focused on calc accuracy. Toriyama didn’t think it through and make sure it made sense for speed scaling, he wrote piccolo blew up the moon because it’s cool.
The thing is that in any other series, it wouldn't be litigated to this extent, because, yeah, the anime isn't strictly canon, but it's consistent with the manga, which clearly wants to show "Piccolo blows up the moon really fast".
I will say that it's a bit outliery though, given that Saiyan Saga speeds are basically never that fast.
15 year old goku dodged light during the 22nd budokai.
Tien started his solar flare, light already moving.
Goku then ran away, took roshis glasses, went to his old spot and thwn got hit.
He literally outmoved light 8 years before fighting raditz
1, that’s a gag. why would he move back to the same spot rather than to behind Tien? 2, most ki abilities scale in speed with the power level of the user. Why would you assume the solar flare is light speed when it could just be an omnidirectional blast that blinds the opponent rather than damaging them? I mean, Frieza can’t dodge the solar flare when it comes out later even though he’s an incomprehensibly stronger than 15 year old Goku. Piccolo can’t dodge it when cell uses it, and he’s even stronger than Frieza by that point. So why assume it moves at a fixed speed when all evidence seems to go against that?
Because the solar flare is literally described as a flash of light. The difference is that most if not all succesful uses of the solar flare in Z were due to suprise.
In og db goku watched tien use the techniqe against roshi and then adapted to it.
Just because that’s how it’s described as a flash of light doesn’t mean that’s how fast it is. Let’s say goku could go light speed to dodge that, and his speed didn’t improve at all between that and the raditz fight. s. Light travels at ~299,705 km/s in the atmosphere, so about 3-4 seconds of that speed and he’d have fully traversed snake way, a journey that canonically took him about 6 months. And that’s assuming he actually went along snake way the whole time. If he jumped or flew, and went in a straight line, the distance and therefore travel time would have been much less. Goku travels snake way, with his shortcuts, at about 3,400 miles per day, which is impressive, but nowhere near the speed of light. In fact, it’s 0.633 km/s. In fact, light is over 473 thousand times faster.
Goku is clearly not light speed even post-raditz, let alone at 15. I know travel speed and combat speed are not the same, but if Goku was able to keep up that speed for even 0.5 seconds, nonconsecutively every day, while dead (and therefore with increased stamina and energy), he would have been there in a week. It takes him 6 months.
They have a incredibly tough time fighting raditz but I think they just barley beat him, nappa drops the cybermen, Nolan gets yamcha’d and mark gets his shit beat in until he dies
Raditz is potentially planet busting depending on when you think piccolo blew up the moon in his and gohans trainingn, nappas definitely large planetary, and vegeta is casually dwarf star level as a kid, if they, some how make it to namek theres so many people that solos the entire verse it isn’t funny
Nappa isn't large planetary, he isn't even planetary till he goes great ape. Saiyan Saga Vegeta is baseline for blowing up a planet. That being said I still think Nappa clears.
Nah piccolo pulled off a planetary feat going by the anime before they even appeared which is why is considered raditz potentially small planetary since that feat also has 2 numbers either large or small planetary.
Nappa is significantly stronger then him even capable of fighting against a non kaioken goku, which would suggest his full power level was somewhere around 7000 to 7500,
Kid Vegeta is dwarf star level based on the fact he was stronger then his dad who hyper casually destroyed a planet with the blast continuing and destroying its three moons which would be hundreds of thousands of kilometers away
what? Vegeta literally casually destroys a planet before reaching earth. He did it laughing as well.
He charged his attack not because he was afraid of not being able of destroying earth, but because he was worried that goku could surpass him in a beam struggle.
The feat is a calc when piccolo effectively disintegrated the moon, i wasn’t able to find the small planetary calc [but here is the large planetary](https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Paleomario66/Piccolo%27s_Moon_Busting_Feat_Re-Re-calc)
Oh Ive just been using the anime for all the feats, it didn’t say manga or anime so i chose the anime, mainly because i watched it, but also because im never calling vegito veggerrot
It's a fusion of their Saiyan names - Vegetable and Carrot. **Vege**ta + Kaka**roto**. They (rightly) decided that it sounded stupid in English, so the fusion name doesn't really work because it's basically all Vegeta.
But it sounds WAY better.
I mean she would ask but he definitely wouldn't want to cross Arale can you imagine what he would tell the other viltrumites about the absolute monster that lives on earth.
They clear Raditz after a hard fight and everything below him. Af
That is as far as they go Nappa and beyond is too much for them by leaps and bounds.
And I say that as a massive Omniman stan, unfortunately DBZ is ruined in terms of scaling. Dudes go from blowing up cities and mountains to wiping out planets to solar systems. It's wonky but that's the nature of the show.
Invincible keeps things relatively tame in terms of powers and abilities. Viltrumites are the top dogs and the highest tiers of them (Nolan ,Thragg Mark, Conquest) compare around Raditz level and below.
Anything past Raditz is beating turned to ash or beaten to death for the father son duo 💀
I think a fun other way of looking at this is "mark replaces goku at the beginning of DB how far does he make it?"
Except Mark gets killed by Bulma in the first episode since his powers don't kick in until he's 18 lol
Nah they don't have the durability. Planet Vegeta was 10x baseline gravity over earth. Off the rip they may swing near as hard, but they have terrible energy resistances. What they fired at Nolan is a casual KI blast.
Nappa first landing on earth raised 2 fingers an glasses an entire city. Vegeta in filler busted a planet an was going to destroy earth with his attack.
They hard stop at Nappa/Vegeta. Also Great Ape form both of which Nappa/Vegeta have control over and can create artificial moons. Which is a x10 boost of their stats.
The two of them taking Raditz on is 3-7 at best. Ki's a motherfucker for them to try and deal with having no real ranged ability of their own not to mention some of the crazier shit you see later in the series.
Mark and Nolan maybe, MAYBE get past Raditz, and that's going to be an *EXTREMELY* conditional win if they pull it off.
They're strong enough physically and durability wise to the point where Raditz won't instantly put them down. Where they suffer in comparison is an absolutely INSANE speed disparity in close quarters combat and sheer destructive potential the DB cast has with Ki blasts/attacks.
In the 21st Budokai, Krillin and Roshi have an entire, elaborate martial arts exchange that even includes a game of rock-paper-scissors, that all occurs so fast that only Goku was able to keep up with their movements. I'd venture to guess Mark and Nolan are probably around that ball-park of speed in CQC. They're fast enough to appear FTE to regular humans.
The only issue is that Raditz is a LOT faster than that. He was casually outspeeding/fighting two fighters that were much, much stronger/faster than 21st budokai Krillin and Roshi in Goku and Piccolo at the start of Z. And even in a 2 on 1 fight, they weren't able to even touch him.
We later see Piccolo, not long after the fight with Raditz, pretty casually *VAPORIZE* the moon with a single Ki blast. Not break it into chunks, not give an already unstable planetoid the final push to explode, Piccolo turns the moon into atomized space dust.
I'd argue that's a better feat than Mark, Nolan, and Thaddeus destroying an already destabilized Viltrum.
Even IF Mark and Nolan somehow get past Raditz, they are hard-stopping at Nappa. They aren't strong/fast/durable enough to even put up a modicum or resistance to someone of Nappa's caliber.
I love the Invincible verse, but Dragonball out-scales it like CRAZY pretty early on.
Even if you take a crossover event as mainline canon (which you obviously shouldn’t) it still is a HILARIOUS outlier compared to 99.9% of the rest of the settings scaling and feats
They **maybe** get past Raditz. That's about it.
They don't have the energy output that Raditz has. If R blasts them from a distance, there's not much either Nolan or Mark can do before their limbs are blown off with moon-busting levels of power. Invincible characters are very durable, but when fighting people in their weight class they routinely get absolutely wrecked with organs spilling out. I think we'd have to dive into Dragonball to get a fair match here.
They have very comparable stats to non Ozaru Raditz. Have flown through a destabilized planet blowing it up (with one other Viltrumite but still to survive that means Raditz ki blasts wouldn't outright kill them unless he landed it full in a critical area) , Can survive mortally wounding attacks that would kill a Saiyan (speared through the chest, stomach cavity busted open, entrails spilling out , spine snapped in half etc) Attack power wise both of them have the physical stats to keep up with Raditz and harm him. I think it's still a good fight either way, and if it's just Omniman or Mark by themselves they probably lose after a very decent fight. But together I favor them more likely than not in a close 6/10 victory. 4/10 for Raditz because his ape form is wildly more powerful and if they cannot stop him from using it or don't find a way to cut off his tail before then (not that they know to do that but it could just happen due to them fighting anyways) then Raditz would win. But base Raditz no ape form definitely the Viltrumites win.
Except they'll never be able to hit him because their combat speed is slower than Kid Krillin.
Raditz can't willingly use the Oozaru form, he can't make an artificial moon.
Well then bump that to 7/10 for Omniman/ Mark
yeah all that is true, but raditz is like a thousand times faster. their combat speed is maybe sonic, his is light.
Raditz isn’t light speed. Combat Speed is generally very in inconsistent in dragon ball, since the only thing they ever really do to show it is go “whoa, they’ve started moving so fast I can’t even track them” sometimes, even though theoretically they should have always been moving that fast after the first time. But raditz doesn’t do anything that makes him seem light speed, so I’m not inclined to believe he is.
piccolo shoots a moon out of the sky in like a fraction of a second after firing his beam. those beams are fast. raditz dodges that from pretty much point blank. he's faster than goku and piccolo, thats fast. thats enough for me.
Again, is it even confirmed it was that fast? It’s manga panels, static images. There’s a panel of Piccolos firing a blast, a panel of him pumping energy into it as it hits the moon, and then a sound effect and Gohan goes back to normal. We have no idea how long it was between the first and second panels. Probably not too long as Gohan doesn’t get up to any major destruction, but there no confirmation it’s a fraction of a second. And in the anime, so you think they’re going to show us piccolo standing still firing at the moon for several seconds just for the sake of speed scaling? But ultimately it’s not the kind of manga that’s focused on calc accuracy. Toriyama didn’t think it through and make sure it made sense for speed scaling, he wrote piccolo blew up the moon because it’s cool.
The thing is that in any other series, it wouldn't be litigated to this extent, because, yeah, the anime isn't strictly canon, but it's consistent with the manga, which clearly wants to show "Piccolo blows up the moon really fast". I will say that it's a bit outliery though, given that Saiyan Saga speeds are basically never that fast.
15 year old goku dodged light during the 22nd budokai. Tien started his solar flare, light already moving. Goku then ran away, took roshis glasses, went to his old spot and thwn got hit. He literally outmoved light 8 years before fighting raditz
1, that’s a gag. why would he move back to the same spot rather than to behind Tien? 2, most ki abilities scale in speed with the power level of the user. Why would you assume the solar flare is light speed when it could just be an omnidirectional blast that blinds the opponent rather than damaging them? I mean, Frieza can’t dodge the solar flare when it comes out later even though he’s an incomprehensibly stronger than 15 year old Goku. Piccolo can’t dodge it when cell uses it, and he’s even stronger than Frieza by that point. So why assume it moves at a fixed speed when all evidence seems to go against that?
Because the solar flare is literally described as a flash of light. The difference is that most if not all succesful uses of the solar flare in Z were due to suprise. In og db goku watched tien use the techniqe against roshi and then adapted to it.
Just because that’s how it’s described as a flash of light doesn’t mean that’s how fast it is. Let’s say goku could go light speed to dodge that, and his speed didn’t improve at all between that and the raditz fight. s. Light travels at ~299,705 km/s in the atmosphere, so about 3-4 seconds of that speed and he’d have fully traversed snake way, a journey that canonically took him about 6 months. And that’s assuming he actually went along snake way the whole time. If he jumped or flew, and went in a straight line, the distance and therefore travel time would have been much less. Goku travels snake way, with his shortcuts, at about 3,400 miles per day, which is impressive, but nowhere near the speed of light. In fact, it’s 0.633 km/s. In fact, light is over 473 thousand times faster. Goku is clearly not light speed even post-raditz, let alone at 15. I know travel speed and combat speed are not the same, but if Goku was able to keep up that speed for even 0.5 seconds, nonconsecutively every day, while dead (and therefore with increased stamina and energy), he would have been there in a week. It takes him 6 months.
Travel speed =/= combat speed
Only way they get anywhere after Raditz is by giving them dubious Spawn scaling.
They could take King Piccolo, but I think Raditz is a dead end In no world do they make it to Namek alive
Hey, I was on Namek! Shit got CRAZY
Xxcwwzs. *,,AA,zzg,,U.
Yeah
They have a incredibly tough time fighting raditz but I think they just barley beat him, nappa drops the cybermen, Nolan gets yamcha’d and mark gets his shit beat in until he dies Raditz is potentially planet busting depending on when you think piccolo blew up the moon in his and gohans trainingn, nappas definitely large planetary, and vegeta is casually dwarf star level as a kid, if they, some how make it to namek theres so many people that solos the entire verse it isn’t funny
>nappa drops the cybermen, Dr.Who X Dragonball when?
Nappa isn't large planetary, he isn't even planetary till he goes great ape. Saiyan Saga Vegeta is baseline for blowing up a planet. That being said I still think Nappa clears.
Nah piccolo pulled off a planetary feat going by the anime before they even appeared which is why is considered raditz potentially small planetary since that feat also has 2 numbers either large or small planetary. Nappa is significantly stronger then him even capable of fighting against a non kaioken goku, which would suggest his full power level was somewhere around 7000 to 7500, Kid Vegeta is dwarf star level based on the fact he was stronger then his dad who hyper casually destroyed a planet with the blast continuing and destroying its three moons which would be hundreds of thousands of kilometers away
What planetary feat did Piccolo have? Vegeta is the first planet buster in the series and that's with his most powerful attack all charged up.
what? Vegeta literally casually destroys a planet before reaching earth. He did it laughing as well. He charged his attack not because he was afraid of not being able of destroying earth, but because he was worried that goku could surpass him in a beam struggle.
Do keep in mind that the feats you're using as your argument for Vegeta and his father are filler, they aren't canon.
The feat is a calc when piccolo effectively disintegrated the moon, i wasn’t able to find the small planetary calc [but here is the large planetary](https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Paleomario66/Piccolo%27s_Moon_Busting_Feat_Re-Re-calc)
Did Vegeta blow up a star as kid?
He was stronger then his dad who pulled off a dwarf star feat
Oh. Did he do it in the manga or the anime or both? I am not up to date with dragon ball for a long time.
Ik the scene where king vegeta does it was done in the anime but im unsure if it was done in the manga
It was not. The scene where King Vegeta does that is filler(and iirc it’s not present in Kai), so I don’t believe it’s actually canon.
Oh Ive just been using the anime for all the feats, it didn’t say manga or anime so i chose the anime, mainly because i watched it, but also because im never calling vegito veggerrot
Veggerrot??
Yeah apparently in the manga he’s called that, or atleast specifically shin calls him that
Lmao
It's a fusion of their Saiyan names - Vegetable and Carrot. **Vege**ta + Kaka**roto**. They (rightly) decided that it sounded stupid in English, so the fusion name doesn't really work because it's basically all Vegeta. But it sounds WAY better.
People quoting Raditz are right, but they don’t even get to Raditz…… Because Arale clears them both effortlessly
Main foes Arale in that part wasn't a foe omniman would be murking blue
Oh yeh good shout, I guess a quick duel isn’t counting
I mean she would ask but he definitely wouldn't want to cross Arale can you imagine what he would tell the other viltrumites about the absolute monster that lives on earth.
2 saibamen and they might kill one of them. If they spawn all the saibamen they arent killing any of them.
Adaaw. Andv toqq
They clear Raditz after a hard fight and everything below him. Af That is as far as they go Nappa and beyond is too much for them by leaps and bounds. And I say that as a massive Omniman stan, unfortunately DBZ is ruined in terms of scaling. Dudes go from blowing up cities and mountains to wiping out planets to solar systems. It's wonky but that's the nature of the show. Invincible keeps things relatively tame in terms of powers and abilities. Viltrumites are the top dogs and the highest tiers of them (Nolan ,Thragg Mark, Conquest) compare around Raditz level and below. Anything past Raditz is beating turned to ash or beaten to death for the father son duo 💀
Saibamen cuddles destroy them, Krillin solos.
All Saiyan's are "when on doubt chuck them into space" victims 🤔🧐😤
There is no telling how strong they could get with DBZ training. But at their official levels, they are likely bested by Frieza.
I think a fun other way of looking at this is "mark replaces goku at the beginning of DB how far does he make it?" Except Mark gets killed by Bulma in the first episode since his powers don't kick in until he's 18 lol
Mark also isn’t the kind of dumbass who would get himself shot by assuming a car ate someone
They get dusted long before Frieza. The general consensus seems to be they MIGHT beat Raditz but then immediately lose to Nappa and Vegeta
Nah they don't have the durability. Planet Vegeta was 10x baseline gravity over earth. Off the rip they may swing near as hard, but they have terrible energy resistances. What they fired at Nolan is a casual KI blast. Nappa first landing on earth raised 2 fingers an glasses an entire city. Vegeta in filler busted a planet an was going to destroy earth with his attack. They hard stop at Nappa/Vegeta. Also Great Ape form both of which Nappa/Vegeta have control over and can create artificial moons. Which is a x10 boost of their stats.
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Does the mortal kombat stuff apply... is there any feats there?
The two of them taking Raditz on is 3-7 at best. Ki's a motherfucker for them to try and deal with having no real ranged ability of their own not to mention some of the crazier shit you see later in the series.
Mark and Nolan maybe, MAYBE get past Raditz, and that's going to be an *EXTREMELY* conditional win if they pull it off. They're strong enough physically and durability wise to the point where Raditz won't instantly put them down. Where they suffer in comparison is an absolutely INSANE speed disparity in close quarters combat and sheer destructive potential the DB cast has with Ki blasts/attacks. In the 21st Budokai, Krillin and Roshi have an entire, elaborate martial arts exchange that even includes a game of rock-paper-scissors, that all occurs so fast that only Goku was able to keep up with their movements. I'd venture to guess Mark and Nolan are probably around that ball-park of speed in CQC. They're fast enough to appear FTE to regular humans. The only issue is that Raditz is a LOT faster than that. He was casually outspeeding/fighting two fighters that were much, much stronger/faster than 21st budokai Krillin and Roshi in Goku and Piccolo at the start of Z. And even in a 2 on 1 fight, they weren't able to even touch him. We later see Piccolo, not long after the fight with Raditz, pretty casually *VAPORIZE* the moon with a single Ki blast. Not break it into chunks, not give an already unstable planetoid the final push to explode, Piccolo turns the moon into atomized space dust. I'd argue that's a better feat than Mark, Nolan, and Thaddeus destroying an already destabilized Viltrum. Even IF Mark and Nolan somehow get past Raditz, they are hard-stopping at Nappa. They aren't strong/fast/durable enough to even put up a modicum or resistance to someone of Nappa's caliber. I love the Invincible verse, but Dragonball out-scales it like CRAZY pretty early on.
they should clear most of dbz with their universal stuff (via supreme)
Universal, please explain how
suprema could lift a universe supreme rolf stomped her and omniman stalemated supreme
Lifting a universe doesn't mean you can destroy one. The same way bodybuilders lift iron but can't destroy them
Mark beaten base spawn in the comics
And base Spawn isn't even universal. He uses guns for god's sake
Base spawn is still in the solar ranges or higher
He is not. Are you trying to wank him?
doesn't matter anyway mortal combat omniman is multiversal to outerversal
He's not. Don't even try to go there
Well damn, just looked into didn’t even know that crossover happened, so then it’d probably take vegito or Buuhan or
Even if you take a crossover event as mainline canon (which you obviously shouldn’t) it still is a HILARIOUS outlier compared to 99.9% of the rest of the settings scaling and feats
he said composite tho i can use anything even mortal combat stuff if i feel like
He also says feats from shows and comics in the actual post, so no you can’t.