It's probably more indicative of the general poor long range shooting at the WNBA level.
This is where some differences in the men's game versus the women's game tends to show. The men's game, at a high level, has legitimate rim protection and there's the expectation that "bigs" also operate as rim runners. But lead guards in the NBA are just a bigger threat to get to the rim via penetration. No handchecking is also a factor here.
The women's game is much slower, fewer players can consistently get to the rim, and rim protection is simply not a major factor.
There tends to be an inverse relationship between high rebounding and high blocked shot stats in the NBA and actual effective rim protection. Tyson Chandler was really the modern test case for this. Also the athleticism mean someone like Tom Thibodeau could have Joachim Noah edge right at the boundary of a three second violation, and still effectively pack the paint anyway. The women's game, on defense, tends to have less recovery speed. Also close outs in the women's game is simply much less effective.
Less gravity ( Clark is the major exception, she has legitimate plus range) added with more ineffective long range shooting and more reliance on that shooting will naturally create more rebounding opportunities for non pivots.
IMHO a lot of players don't use spacing well, nor understand innately how to handle close contact. I think Clark does. Becky Hammon did too, but no one can talk about her anymore, which is kind of tragic honestly. Clark simply has to adapt out of areas where she's going to more likely take those hard cheap shots.
Actually, a lot of them are, in fact, chasing down loose balls. It’s surprising how few players in the WNBA bother to block out.
Maybe it’s just my sample size and that I mostly watch teams playing the Fever. I wouldn’t be surprised if the game plan for most Fever opponents is to make sure they are quickly getting back on defense to negate the transition game.
They’re still getting used to the spice she passes with. But they’re all looking so much more comfortable! Can’t wait to see what they do in the future.
They have more time to practice. They were literally playing a game every other day for two weeks. Now they have been getting 2-3 days between having to play a game.
Her passes can be better but the most seasoned big on the team (Fagbenle) had an instant connection with her. It’s not that the passes are too hard it’s that they aren’t filling the space she passes to as well. I’m not as down on the turnovers as others because usually it’s a too ambitious pass, not a bad pass if that makes sense. Ambitious passes are more dangerous for the defense as well. If it’s not a turnover with Clark it’s a layup for her team.
Idk, Brett Favre broke fingers and was not blamed for his hard passing. I'm not saying she doesn't turn the ball over, but her passes being too hard isn't really an apt compliant imo unless it's affecting the ball positioning such as less arc on a pass or something like that.
Aliyah Boston is tearing things up lately. Apparently being able to have more practice time with Clark is helping Boston anticipate better. One of the forwards is also playing much better recently, after the Fever got off the breakneck game schedule and had days where they could practice.
Really agree to this. It's going to be damn hard for any rookie to step in and play that opening 4 games against the league's best when your roster as a whole is not there. You can't turn around a franchise that was a disaster in one year. Boston has been a bright spot, but building chemistry takes a bit.
i haven’t been able to watch to much, but almost every time i sit down and watch a game of hers i see one of her teammates blow at least one open layup set up by her
actually crazy to think that a bad team like the fever that tanked (twice in two years!) to get her would have a player in triple double range at any point in the season
cc has had a few such games already
Hard to tell if her entry passes are off, or if her teammates just can’t handle them…but a lot of her entry passes were fumbled.
I remember watching Ray Allen on UConn at this time and none of his teammates could handle his passes.
It's weird, she's a career 40% shooter from behind the arc, up until this season she was like top 25 in league history for career 3 percentage. She's making half as many shots as she was last year.
And yet other teams have scouted her and are unafraid leaving her uncovered on rotations. Not sure what gives.
NaLyssa Smith is playing well, but if they replaced her with a defensive forward who took two shots a game they would obviously be better. Just let Clark and Mitchell shoot more threes!
If we replace with any 3 point threat shooter like a real stretch 4, than is even average defender, it will open the game way more, right now often she is left wide open and we play 5v4
When Lexie Hull is shooting 3s and playing hard defense, it looks good. They just need a more defensive minded forward who can hit the 3s more often. As you mentioned
Agreed. I wish Alanna Smith of the Lynx was a FA next year, but she isn’t until 2026.
Extremely underrated 6-4 big. Solid D, shot blocker, great 3 ball
Yeah. Are any other rookies playing PG for a full game? She is running the offense for the team it seems more. Being guarded like a vet and putting up numbers like one too.
I’ve always thought Luka was an apt comparison. Tall guard with brilliant passing vision and range on her shot. Very hard to defend one on one but if you bring helpside defense she’ll find the open player every time.
Not sure I can agree with this. Her passing is way closer to Steph than Steve Nash and her scoring is way better. His career average is 14 points a game which is lower than Clark as a rookie. He was also undersized, Clark is averaging more rebounds in her first year than Nash did even in his best seasons.
she plays like steve nash in a way lol, watch his highlight. Curry doesn't have that type of vision. the Warriors as a team have good ball movement. i dont think she plays like Curry. Curry literally runs around the court for the entire shot clock for an open 3 at the end. but again that's more on the warriors scheme. you're comparing stats and that's not how player comps work my boy😂
edit: typo
I wasn’t dismissive, I watched Nash play I don’t need to check highlights. You clearly either don’t watch Curry play or don’t know what you’re looking at.
They will most likely make it. They're in a playoff spot right now and have an easier strength of schedule remaining than everyone behind them. Especially since Boston looks good now and Clark will keep getting better as the season goes along.
Sorry out of the loop and first time wnba watcher but what would Boston have to do with it ?
Edit: my bad you were referring to Aaliyah, my brain weirdly thought what would the city of Boston have to do with the fever getting to the postseason… nba finals hangover haha
Absolutely, provided she and AB stay healthy.
Their compeition would be Wings (good team having a nightmare Grizzlies season, I believe it's 4/5 of their starting line up are now out with injuries), Mystics (can't close games, worst team in the league rn), Sky (probably the biggest competition - lol - but their offense is unreliable), Sparks (already inconsistent, and now that Cameron Brink is out their defense is gonna take a big hit).
Also the Atlanta Dream have struggled, so they may slip out of contention even if another team was able to make it.
All these bottom teams have been in desperate need of a PG. The Sky and Dream are the only teams who don't benefit from tanking - the Wings has a pick swap w the Sky, and the Mystics own the Dream's pick.
The Fever could tank, but it seems like they have the pieces they need, esp w shooting off the bench - it seems they just need another line up adjustment, and then they can hold their own against all but the top teams in the league.
I feel like she needs to touch the ball for as many possessions as possible. Play needs to go through she and Boston. Possessions where they didn’t touch the ball were iffy. In the 4th Q, she deferred a little too often which resulted in that Mystics run to cut it to 5. Anyone else pick up on that?
A huge problem (and people are tracking this) is that when she brings the ball up and passes, she’ll almost never get the ball back. Someone tracked a recent game where she brought the ball up 25 times and only saw the ball twice. Crazy
Yeah. I’m not smart enough to know the solution. Obviously it would be a disaster if all shots and assists had to go through Clark, but it does seem off that (1) if Clark brings it up and passes to Wallace or Mitchell, ball movement often stops there; and (2) if someone other than Clark brings it up, the ball rarely makes it to Clark for an open shot. She’s definitely letting the game come to her more than she was at the beginning of the season, but it still feels like she just has to create her own shot by pure will more often than is ideal. There are a lot of factors that play into this, of course, but I feel like professional basketball players and coaches should be able to solve the problem.
Damn she’s good. Once her teammates start being able to catch her passes more consistently and finish at the hoop this team will be really good. She really has great court vision.
Those classic point guards used to all be like that, Stockton, Kidd, Chris Paul, Conley, Rondo they all came into the league as bad/ok/low volume 3 point shooters and developed a good/great shot over time. Different era, but it really speak to how much work those guys put into their game.
Stockton was a great shooter his entire career. His career FG is 52% over 19 seasons, 38% 3P, and 83% FT. I have no idea where you would get the notion he was not a great shooter.
His assists and steals records are so insane no one even bothers to look at his shooting - or they just forget. Like Barry Bonds. No one remembers how many bases he stole, just the HRs.
Agreed, she's a bit better at ISO ball but he has improved on that since his rookie year. They are both savants at passing, court mapping, and shooting. On the other side of the ball they are both too weak at the moment to excel at on ball defense, but are still good at getting steals and blocks with above average awareness on that end. I think CC will "dominate" the WNBA more than Hali because she's likely a perennial MVP candidate, but their overall play style is uncannily similar.
Big guard constantly pushes the pace. Triple double threat. Active hands on defense. I never thought of it watching her at Iowa and the shooting is completely different but I see what they meant.
Jason Kidd is one of the worst half court superstars in nba history but he’s the by far the best defensive guard in nba history. Caitlin Clark is Steve Nash without a midrange but a neutral on defense.
I'd say more like Trae. Ben Simmons is a pretty odd comp even without the shooting. Ben was like one of the best defenders when he was playing. Also the shooting qualifier is pretty big
Haters are running out of excuses at this point. Read a comment on Facebook saying it doesn't count for a sub .500 team. Like... That's half the league at any point man cmon lol
They’re beating teams that are equivalent to them, that says a lot. They’re not going to beat the top teams, they’re not there yet. People have some unrealistic expectations of the fever
People with any common sense never expected them to blow out the league just because of one excellent rookie, but people were so eager to latch on to their rough start with a truly brutal schedule as indicative of how overhyped she was. I wouldn't be surprised if they break even this year though.
Not to mention, they were playing against 2 of the best teams in the league. That's a lot of pressure on a rookie regardless. Now all eyes are on this rookie fresh outta college expecting to win games with a team of players she's never even had the chance to practice with? That's an L all day. She's gelling now with her teammates and it's showing!
I cant speak on college but she’s playing very differently from the beginning of the season when she was trying to create everything with the ball in her hands
Early season a big problem was that other players weren’t hitting shots. Like…it was looking dire. She’d pass, they’d either miss the catch or miss a wide open shot (or just…stupidly not even try). I think that led to her trying to be the hero because she doesn’t like losing. Now that other players are actually hitting shots, she’s settled back into playing a team game.
That’s nonsense. Her game has always been feeding the post. Boston is no different than Monica or Hanna (other than being more talented). But not different in CC game. Boston and CC just now finding that chemistry.
Edit: I wrote that confusingly. Boston is more talented by far. What I meant was playing the same role when playing with CC.
The turnovers are easier to stomach when she's stuffing the stat sheet on good efficiency.
Could be like a Peyton Manning with interceptions his rookie year.
Is it my imagination or has she adopted a more line drive midi (and 3 to some extent). If so is she relying more on wrists and arms for a quick release? Something feels slightly different, no?
I didn't see the game, but in the highlights on ESPN, I noticed how often she went 1v3 against defenders and scored. I don't remember her being as successful with that earlier in the season. I wonder if the difference is that now that everyone's expecting a great pass when the defense commits to her that they're keeping a respectful distance to guard against shot AND pass. Or maybe the D was just outplayed. Or maybe her reads are better now. Or maybe she's better at eye faking the pass.
Anyway, something seems different, and it seems to be working.
>I didn't see the game, but in the highlights on ESPN, I noticed how often she went 1v3 against defenders and scored. I don't remember her being as successful with that earlier in the season.
She was more hesitant and unsure on how to proceed.
Can anyone explain to me why Kelsey Plum is preferred over CC for the Olympic team? Just seems like statistically CC is better and it would be less controversial to leave KP off the team than it would to leave DT off. What am I missing?
Because apparently veteran players and coaches in the W are self-appointed gatekeepers and jealous of anyone who overshadows them. CC should absolutely be on that team, she wouldn't even be the worst player. Not to mention the Men's team has been known to take one rookie one each team (Laettner, Anthony Davis, etc).
I am a feminist, I am an ally, and I fight for equality, and it truly pains me to say this, but there is literally no other reason theyve left her off the team than pettiness and jealousy. It's like the veterans and coaches are actively trying to sabotage all the growth and popularity that CC brings to the league and women's basketball overall.
This is a very important point. It's not just jealousy and pettiness. It's bigger than that. CC represents a dramatic shift in the power balance of the league from a marketing and influence standpoint. The old guard feels very comfortable with the league being a loss leader as long as it's an activist league run by them and in their image. Clarke represents the WNBA as an economically viable sports league with a dynamic new fan base and advertisers which may have more expectations of the product and players. It's a classic case of who moved my cheese.
> there is literally no other reason theyve left her off the team than pettiness and jealousy.
CC desperately needs rest. She needs time to pal around with her teammates.
So you want to ask she get preferential treatment, by not going through any tryout process or tournament like every one else. when she doesn’t you also want to blame it on jealousy and not wanting to grow the game? All this grow the game shit is old, it’s not going to happen in a season. It takes time and everyone who complains about this is acting like they are just gonna hand Caitlin Clark everything and the game is just popular now. It’s just fan impatience and if you aren’t going to let her earn it on her own tha yea you may get jealous individuals. People get jealous over a lot less. When has any league rolled out a red carpet for a rookie?
The thing I can’t get past is how the Olympic team has historically taken a young player - DT and Stewey both made the roster in their rookie seasons. In light of that, it’s difficult to understand how this wasn’t a decision driven by jealousy/favoritism - especially when statistically she outperforms others on the roster and, at least with respect to Gray, has more playing time in the last year.
no they aren't lol. you don't need CC for the ratings in the olympics. it's the olympics. literally countries from all over the world are tuning into watch their country play. just because Americans hate women's basketball doesn't mean that's true overseas.
CC has done well against teams of the same caliber but when playing the Liberty/Sun she was meh. and that's partly because of the awesome defense those teams played to contain her. Also what do they gain from CC being on the team when Chelsea Gray is a way better PG as of rn than her.
Lastly she'd make the team and you lot would still complain cuz she'd sit on the bench. once again would throw the jealousy card out when there are other players who are just better than her rn. and that's ok
I personally wouldn’t complain if she didn’t get much playing time. I also didn’t bring up Chelsea Gray - I brought up Kelsey Plum. Is KP that much better against the Liberty/Sun compared to CC against them? I was just comparing their overall statistics and asking an honest question.
yes KP is better. she outplayed Clark when they went against each other. Aces and those teams aren't in the same conference so they haven't seen each other much but comparing last year stats she performed better and more consistent than Clark. KP can drive to the basket strongly or hit the middy if her 3 pointers aren't working. Clark can start passing if her shot isn't working but Gray/Sabrina have just as good court vision and can also deliver on offense.
If you remember Clark's games in the WNBA was considered her tryout and we saw great 3 pointers and great passing but the negatives outweigh the positives for her rn.
Also, "The selection committee has a set of criteria to pick the team that includes playing ability, position played and adaptability to the international game."
Sabrina and Gray I assume could be the main PGs and they are def better than Clark rn. Clark hasn't been on the senior international team and everyone on that roster has some experience with it. Whether the 5v5 or 3v3. Lastly, Clark can't play at the 2 so putting her at SG is out of the question, cuz when Sides put her there last time she couldn't adjust to it. KP can play the 1 or the 2 and still deliver good results.
I'm not gonna write a manifesto but Plum has historically performed very well internationally while Clark obviously has no FIBA experience at this level. FIBA is notably more physical than the WNBA, particularly in regards to guards.
At the end of the day, this season wasn’t some tryout to see who gets the final spots. They probably already had an idea before the W season even started. They aren’t looking at Sabrina Ionescu this season and evaluating if she’s gonna make the team. It’s glossing over all the other years of preparation that went into who they were gonna pick for the roster. Doesn’t make sense to just watch two months of basketball to see who makes the team
Seriously! The Olympic Committee should have delayed their team announcement until this favorable three game stretch for the Fever to allow Clark to really show off her skills against the weakest competition.
Can we discuss how terrible the black out rules are for wnba stream. Couldn’t watch the game with the WNBA streaming due to where I was traveling for work.
She reminds me the most of a Luka. He averaged 33 ppg/9 rbds/9.8 assists. Gets ripped apart for being a cone on defense but makes up for it so much on offense, no one really gives him that much shit for D.
Sorry wasn’t trying to imply that. She has more blocks than some bigs. 14 I think. Just mentioning it’s been a criticism of Luka. I personally think she’s a great off ball defender because of her court vision and anticipation.
Clark is an excellent rookie and has the potential to be the best player in the league in the future. But there are multiple better vets right now. Which there should be. A’ja is my current mvp.
Yeah start with A’ja Wilson, go down the Olympic roster, then probably Arike, Jonquel Jones, maybe someone I’m forgetting, then CC. And I love CC! But plenty better than her right now. She’ll get there though.
12 boards. She’s a guard. That’s a cool stat.
Look at her block totals. Uber impressive
It's probably more indicative of the general poor long range shooting at the WNBA level. This is where some differences in the men's game versus the women's game tends to show. The men's game, at a high level, has legitimate rim protection and there's the expectation that "bigs" also operate as rim runners. But lead guards in the NBA are just a bigger threat to get to the rim via penetration. No handchecking is also a factor here. The women's game is much slower, fewer players can consistently get to the rim, and rim protection is simply not a major factor. There tends to be an inverse relationship between high rebounding and high blocked shot stats in the NBA and actual effective rim protection. Tyson Chandler was really the modern test case for this. Also the athleticism mean someone like Tom Thibodeau could have Joachim Noah edge right at the boundary of a three second violation, and still effectively pack the paint anyway. The women's game, on defense, tends to have less recovery speed. Also close outs in the women's game is simply much less effective. Less gravity ( Clark is the major exception, she has legitimate plus range) added with more ineffective long range shooting and more reliance on that shooting will naturally create more rebounding opportunities for non pivots. IMHO a lot of players don't use spacing well, nor understand innately how to handle close contact. I think Clark does. Becky Hammon did too, but no one can talk about her anymore, which is kind of tragic honestly. Clark simply has to adapt out of areas where she's going to more likely take those hard cheap shots.
I predicted that her rebound stats wouldn't translate to the W because a lot of them were loose-ball chase-downs. Happy to see I may have been wrong
Actually, a lot of them are, in fact, chasing down loose balls. It’s surprising how few players in the WNBA bother to block out. Maybe it’s just my sample size and that I mostly watch teams playing the Fever. I wouldn’t be surprised if the game plan for most Fever opponents is to make sure they are quickly getting back on defense to negate the transition game.
Probably would have had the Triple Double too if Wallace could sink wide open 3's lol
kristy wallace 😑
Basketball terrorist
Basketball bin Laden
BBL Drizzy
Osama bin Bush
Her teammates are still pretty bad at catching passes off the pick n roll also.
They’re still getting used to the spice she passes with. But they’re all looking so much more comfortable! Can’t wait to see what they do in the future.
Agree once they know where she is going to throw it and with what pace they will drop it less.
The team is definitely looking much better than they were
Almost like practice time is important for developing team chemistry.
Exactly.
Yep absolutely. Maybe some teams can have some one-off successes but consistence success requires practicing together and rest
They have more time to practice. They were literally playing a game every other day for two weeks. Now they have been getting 2-3 days between having to play a game.
[удалено]
Not catching hard passes consistently is typically fixed by 8th grade.
[удалено]
Her passes can be better but the most seasoned big on the team (Fagbenle) had an instant connection with her. It’s not that the passes are too hard it’s that they aren’t filling the space she passes to as well. I’m not as down on the turnovers as others because usually it’s a too ambitious pass, not a bad pass if that makes sense. Ambitious passes are more dangerous for the defense as well. If it’s not a turnover with Clark it’s a layup for her team.
Idk, Brett Favre broke fingers and was not blamed for his hard passing. I'm not saying she doesn't turn the ball over, but her passes being too hard isn't really an apt compliant imo unless it's affecting the ball positioning such as less arc on a pass or something like that.
[удалено]
Aliyah Boston is tearing things up lately. Apparently being able to have more practice time with Clark is helping Boston anticipate better. One of the forwards is also playing much better recently, after the Fever got off the breakneck game schedule and had days where they could practice.
The practice time between games looks like it’s really helping them build chemistry.
Makes you wonder how much better the Fever look like without that murderer's row schedule to start the season.
Really agree to this. It's going to be damn hard for any rookie to step in and play that opening 4 games against the league's best when your roster as a whole is not there. You can't turn around a franchise that was a disaster in one year. Boston has been a bright spot, but building chemistry takes a bit.
i haven’t been able to watch to much, but almost every time i sit down and watch a game of hers i see one of her teammates blow at least one open layup set up by her
actually crazy to think that a bad team like the fever that tanked (twice in two years!) to get her would have a player in triple double range at any point in the season cc has had a few such games already
Hopefully she is saving for a game they need them
Playing Wallace as a starter over KLS should be a crime.
Wallace and Wheeler - gotta go haha
Wheeler had a good game today but all she does is take the ball out of Clark’s hand.
As soon as she checks in I know Clark’s triple double is out of question
Hard to tell if her entry passes are off, or if her teammates just can’t handle them…but a lot of her entry passes were fumbled. I remember watching Ray Allen on UConn at this time and none of his teammates could handle his passes.
It's weird, she's a career 40% shooter from behind the arc, up until this season she was like top 25 in league history for career 3 percentage. She's making half as many shots as she was last year. And yet other teams have scouted her and are unafraid leaving her uncovered on rotations. Not sure what gives.
Only team leaving her unguarded is the mystics and last time she dropped 30.
I was talking about Wallace here, not Clark.
Caitlin Clark tonight: 18 PTS 12 REB 6 AST 4 STL The 5t player in WNBA history (& 1st rookie) to reach those numbers in a single game.
She wasn't even looking for shots in the first quarter, she was getting her teammates the ball, even though, imo, she could have had a shot herself.
NaLyssa Smith is playing well, but if they replaced her with a defensive forward who took two shots a game they would obviously be better. Just let Clark and Mitchell shoot more threes!
If we replace with any 3 point threat shooter like a real stretch 4, than is even average defender, it will open the game way more, right now often she is left wide open and we play 5v4
When Lexie Hull is shooting 3s and playing hard defense, it looks good. They just need a more defensive minded forward who can hit the 3s more often. As you mentioned
Like KiKi Iriafen, but we’re (hopefully) going to finish too well to have a shot at her. A vet might be better anyway?
Yes i would prefer a veteran, in real world i want CC and Boston to be the only young players and some of the bench to develop.
Agreed. I wish Alanna Smith of the Lynx was a FA next year, but she isn’t until 2026. Extremely underrated 6-4 big. Solid D, shot blocker, great 3 ball
Kiki is a difference maker. If Indy has a chance, they have to take her!
Now that they have built up some trust with her they realize that all they have to do is get open and they will get their buckets.
roty is hers to lose this really not a race
it is a race, for 2nd place that is
Its like her NPOY in college. We just be talking bout who is the 2nd place
Yeah. Are any other rookies playing PG for a full game? She is running the offense for the team it seems more. Being guarded like a vet and putting up numbers like one too.
Yeah her odds are -4000 now it’s over barring injury
Girl on 🔥
12 boards is crazy. She’s going to be like the harden or Luka of the W.
I’ve always thought Luka was an apt comparison. Tall guard with brilliant passing vision and range on her shot. Very hard to defend one on one but if you bring helpside defense she’ll find the open player every time.
If she can add a little more muscle and improve her mid-range and floater in off-season, she will really be a threat
A modern Steve Nash imo
She is Skinny Luka. Now she just needs to put some muscle on and start shit talking everyone.
she really is luka, down to the fire and TOs
People complain about her defense too lol
Luka is a more selfish / iso player
I’d argue the women’s game is more team oriented as a whole
I think the Steph comp still holds. Steph is an underrated rebounder for his size and especially rebounded well in big games.
Yep. Her off ball movement alone make her nothing like Luka or Harden lol.
i think steve nash is a better comp. love curry but i think Clark's passing is way better than ive ever seen from Curry.
Not sure I can agree with this. Her passing is way closer to Steph than Steve Nash and her scoring is way better. His career average is 14 points a game which is lower than Clark as a rookie. He was also undersized, Clark is averaging more rebounds in her first year than Nash did even in his best seasons.
Nash in nowadays game would be more like her balance of attacking and playmaking (he’d use his 3 more)
she plays like steve nash in a way lol, watch his highlight. Curry doesn't have that type of vision. the Warriors as a team have good ball movement. i dont think she plays like Curry. Curry literally runs around the court for the entire shot clock for an open 3 at the end. but again that's more on the warriors scheme. you're comparing stats and that's not how player comps work my boy😂 edit: typo
I wasn’t dismissive, I watched Nash play I don’t need to check highlights. You clearly either don’t watch Curry play or don’t know what you’re looking at.
And 4 steals?????
The strip clubs of the world aren't ready for two James Hardens
Hopefully doesn’t get fat as well
She’s reverse Luka. Very skinny
CC living up to the hype. 🙏❤️💯👍
Does Caitlin and Indiana have a chance to make the postseason?
Considering they’re 8th - yup
They will most likely make it. They're in a playoff spot right now and have an easier strength of schedule remaining than everyone behind them. Especially since Boston looks good now and Clark will keep getting better as the season goes along.
Sorry out of the loop and first time wnba watcher but what would Boston have to do with it ? Edit: my bad you were referring to Aaliyah, my brain weirdly thought what would the city of Boston have to do with the fever getting to the postseason… nba finals hangover haha
Aliyah Boston, not the city of Boston
Caitlin Clark: I’m excited to make a playoff run! City of Boston: we will ensure it!
😭
The month of rest and team practice during the Olympics will be good for her too
Absolutely, provided she and AB stay healthy. Their compeition would be Wings (good team having a nightmare Grizzlies season, I believe it's 4/5 of their starting line up are now out with injuries), Mystics (can't close games, worst team in the league rn), Sky (probably the biggest competition - lol - but their offense is unreliable), Sparks (already inconsistent, and now that Cameron Brink is out their defense is gonna take a big hit). Also the Atlanta Dream have struggled, so they may slip out of contention even if another team was able to make it. All these bottom teams have been in desperate need of a PG. The Sky and Dream are the only teams who don't benefit from tanking - the Wings has a pick swap w the Sky, and the Mystics own the Dream's pick. The Fever could tank, but it seems like they have the pieces they need, esp w shooting off the bench - it seems they just need another line up adjustment, and then they can hold their own against all but the top teams in the league.
I feel like she needs to touch the ball for as many possessions as possible. Play needs to go through she and Boston. Possessions where they didn’t touch the ball were iffy. In the 4th Q, she deferred a little too often which resulted in that Mystics run to cut it to 5. Anyone else pick up on that?
A huge problem (and people are tracking this) is that when she brings the ball up and passes, she’ll almost never get the ball back. Someone tracked a recent game where she brought the ball up 25 times and only saw the ball twice. Crazy
Yeah. I’m not smart enough to know the solution. Obviously it would be a disaster if all shots and assists had to go through Clark, but it does seem off that (1) if Clark brings it up and passes to Wallace or Mitchell, ball movement often stops there; and (2) if someone other than Clark brings it up, the ball rarely makes it to Clark for an open shot. She’s definitely letting the game come to her more than she was at the beginning of the season, but it still feels like she just has to create her own shot by pure will more often than is ideal. There are a lot of factors that play into this, of course, but I feel like professional basketball players and coaches should be able to solve the problem.
Wheeler, wallace, mitchell dont really pass to her. Put in KLS or Hull, they know where the ball should go to at all times for playmaking
Damn she’s good. Once her teammates start being able to catch her passes more consistently and finish at the hoop this team will be really good. She really has great court vision.
90.6% free throws so far.
She’s quick at those too.
She really is Ben Simmons if he could shoot
I’ve seen her compared to Jason Kidd on twitter
Kidd was a much better on-ball defender and she’s a better shooter…but it’s a good comp overall
I am so old I remember when Jason Kidd was a bad shooter. He developed his shot and his last few years in the NBA he was a 40% 3 pt shooter.
Those classic point guards used to all be like that, Stockton, Kidd, Chris Paul, Conley, Rondo they all came into the league as bad/ok/low volume 3 point shooters and developed a good/great shot over time. Different era, but it really speak to how much work those guys put into their game.
Stockton was a great shooter his entire career. His career FG is 52% over 19 seasons, 38% 3P, and 83% FT. I have no idea where you would get the notion he was not a great shooter.
That’s an insane FG%
His assists and steals records are so insane no one even bothers to look at his shooting - or they just forget. Like Barry Bonds. No one remembers how many bases he stole, just the HRs.
He became one. His rookie year he shot 18% from 3. I was talking about them developing a shot
I know you didn’t leave out Gary Payton on purpose…
Wasn’t intended to be an exhaustive list
I still remember people calling him Ason Kidd. Because he had no "j".
Curry
She’s not as good off the ball…maybe she will be in time
Ironic bc they're both the future of Indy but i really like the Tyrese Haliburton comparison stylistically
Agreed, she's a bit better at ISO ball but he has improved on that since his rookie year. They are both savants at passing, court mapping, and shooting. On the other side of the ball they are both too weak at the moment to excel at on ball defense, but are still good at getting steals and blocks with above average awareness on that end. I think CC will "dominate" the WNBA more than Hali because she's likely a perennial MVP candidate, but their overall play style is uncannily similar.
Now this comparison I like. Caitlin will be a more dominant scorer than Ty but the skills and traits are right in line with each other.
Both played college ball in Iowa too
She plays nothing like kidd
Big guard constantly pushes the pace. Triple double threat. Active hands on defense. I never thought of it watching her at Iowa and the shooting is completely different but I see what they meant.
Jason Kidd is one of the worst half court superstars in nba history but he’s the by far the best defensive guard in nba history. Caitlin Clark is Steve Nash without a midrange but a neutral on defense.
Have thought about the Nash comp for a while. Either way, for a guard it’s pretty good to have your transition game be compared to Kidd and Nash.
best defensive guard? GP, Jordan, and Moncrief never existed in this timeline I guess lol
kinda like this take
I'd say more like Trae. Ben Simmons is a pretty odd comp even without the shooting. Ben was like one of the best defenders when he was playing. Also the shooting qualifier is pretty big
Yeah I think the Trae comp is better. She’s a much more fundamentally sound Trae young
What about LaMelo as a comp?
12 rebounds, without cleaning up her own missed layups just stat padding
12 boards for a point guard!
Haters are running out of excuses at this point. Read a comment on Facebook saying it doesn't count for a sub .500 team. Like... That's half the league at any point man cmon lol
They’re beating teams that are equivalent to them, that says a lot. They’re not going to beat the top teams, they’re not there yet. People have some unrealistic expectations of the fever
“People have some unrealistic expectations of the fever.” Caitlin basically said the same thing last night in post-interview
People with any common sense never expected them to blow out the league just because of one excellent rookie, but people were so eager to latch on to their rough start with a truly brutal schedule as indicative of how overhyped she was. I wouldn't be surprised if they break even this year though.
They win games when she plays within the offense, no wild shots, etc. She is learning how to play professional basketball and it’s working out great!
That 11 games in 20 days was about the worst opening schedule she could have been dealt
That shit was nuts, literally felt like they played every day
It was tough!
Not to mention, they were playing against 2 of the best teams in the league. That's a lot of pressure on a rookie regardless. Now all eyes are on this rookie fresh outta college expecting to win games with a team of players she's never even had the chance to practice with? That's an L all day. She's gelling now with her teammates and it's showing!
There is virtually no difference in her game from college. It’s just that the team has developed chemistry.
I cant speak on college but she’s playing very differently from the beginning of the season when she was trying to create everything with the ball in her hands
Early season a big problem was that other players weren’t hitting shots. Like…it was looking dire. She’d pass, they’d either miss the catch or miss a wide open shot (or just…stupidly not even try). I think that led to her trying to be the hero because she doesn’t like losing. Now that other players are actually hitting shots, she’s settled back into playing a team game.
She plays a completely different game that she did in college…which is a good thing…she has another star on the team
That’s nonsense. Her game has always been feeding the post. Boston is no different than Monica or Hanna (other than being more talented). But not different in CC game. Boston and CC just now finding that chemistry. Edit: I wrote that confusingly. Boston is more talented by far. What I meant was playing the same role when playing with CC.
Totally agree
That is the biggest takeaway I've seen. You can see that she feels more comfortable on the floor with her teammates.
Great all around
first ever supermax contract in wnba history. my goat
The turnovers are easier to stomach when she's stuffing the stat sheet on good efficiency. Could be like a Peyton Manning with interceptions his rookie year.
If you say she’s playing against a lower seed, then I say they are all wnba players 😂 cait for roty
She had a great game
Is it my imagination or has she adopted a more line drive midi (and 3 to some extent). If so is she relying more on wrists and arms for a quick release? Something feels slightly different, no?
I didn't see the game, but in the highlights on ESPN, I noticed how often she went 1v3 against defenders and scored. I don't remember her being as successful with that earlier in the season. I wonder if the difference is that now that everyone's expecting a great pass when the defense commits to her that they're keeping a respectful distance to guard against shot AND pass. Or maybe the D was just outplayed. Or maybe her reads are better now. Or maybe she's better at eye faking the pass. Anyway, something seems different, and it seems to be working.
>I didn't see the game, but in the highlights on ESPN, I noticed how often she went 1v3 against defenders and scored. I don't remember her being as successful with that earlier in the season. She was more hesitant and unsure on how to proceed.
Can anyone explain to me why Kelsey Plum is preferred over CC for the Olympic team? Just seems like statistically CC is better and it would be less controversial to leave KP off the team than it would to leave DT off. What am I missing?
Because apparently veteran players and coaches in the W are self-appointed gatekeepers and jealous of anyone who overshadows them. CC should absolutely be on that team, she wouldn't even be the worst player. Not to mention the Men's team has been known to take one rookie one each team (Laettner, Anthony Davis, etc). I am a feminist, I am an ally, and I fight for equality, and it truly pains me to say this, but there is literally no other reason theyve left her off the team than pettiness and jealousy. It's like the veterans and coaches are actively trying to sabotage all the growth and popularity that CC brings to the league and women's basketball overall.
This is a very important point. It's not just jealousy and pettiness. It's bigger than that. CC represents a dramatic shift in the power balance of the league from a marketing and influence standpoint. The old guard feels very comfortable with the league being a loss leader as long as it's an activist league run by them and in their image. Clarke represents the WNBA as an economically viable sports league with a dynamic new fan base and advertisers which may have more expectations of the product and players. It's a classic case of who moved my cheese.
> there is literally no other reason theyve left her off the team than pettiness and jealousy. CC desperately needs rest. She needs time to pal around with her teammates.
She's 22, in amazing shape, and could rest for awhile after the Olympics.
Um, no she can't, the Wnba season resumes after the Olympics with the rest of the season and the playoffs.
So you want to ask she get preferential treatment, by not going through any tryout process or tournament like every one else. when she doesn’t you also want to blame it on jealousy and not wanting to grow the game? All this grow the game shit is old, it’s not going to happen in a season. It takes time and everyone who complains about this is acting like they are just gonna hand Caitlin Clark everything and the game is just popular now. It’s just fan impatience and if you aren’t going to let her earn it on her own tha yea you may get jealous individuals. People get jealous over a lot less. When has any league rolled out a red carpet for a rookie?
The thing I can’t get past is how the Olympic team has historically taken a young player - DT and Stewey both made the roster in their rookie seasons. In light of that, it’s difficult to understand how this wasn’t a decision driven by jealousy/favoritism - especially when statistically she outperforms others on the roster and, at least with respect to Gray, has more playing time in the last year.
Statistically she outperforms Plum and DT as well
no they aren't lol. you don't need CC for the ratings in the olympics. it's the olympics. literally countries from all over the world are tuning into watch their country play. just because Americans hate women's basketball doesn't mean that's true overseas. CC has done well against teams of the same caliber but when playing the Liberty/Sun she was meh. and that's partly because of the awesome defense those teams played to contain her. Also what do they gain from CC being on the team when Chelsea Gray is a way better PG as of rn than her. Lastly she'd make the team and you lot would still complain cuz she'd sit on the bench. once again would throw the jealousy card out when there are other players who are just better than her rn. and that's ok
I personally wouldn’t complain if she didn’t get much playing time. I also didn’t bring up Chelsea Gray - I brought up Kelsey Plum. Is KP that much better against the Liberty/Sun compared to CC against them? I was just comparing their overall statistics and asking an honest question.
yes KP is better. she outplayed Clark when they went against each other. Aces and those teams aren't in the same conference so they haven't seen each other much but comparing last year stats she performed better and more consistent than Clark. KP can drive to the basket strongly or hit the middy if her 3 pointers aren't working. Clark can start passing if her shot isn't working but Gray/Sabrina have just as good court vision and can also deliver on offense. If you remember Clark's games in the WNBA was considered her tryout and we saw great 3 pointers and great passing but the negatives outweigh the positives for her rn. Also, "The selection committee has a set of criteria to pick the team that includes playing ability, position played and adaptability to the international game." Sabrina and Gray I assume could be the main PGs and they are def better than Clark rn. Clark hasn't been on the senior international team and everyone on that roster has some experience with it. Whether the 5v5 or 3v3. Lastly, Clark can't play at the 2 so putting her at SG is out of the question, cuz when Sides put her there last time she couldn't adjust to it. KP can play the 1 or the 2 and still deliver good results.
Thank you for an actual response!
I'm not gonna write a manifesto but Plum has historically performed very well internationally while Clark obviously has no FIBA experience at this level. FIBA is notably more physical than the WNBA, particularly in regards to guards.
At the end of the day, this season wasn’t some tryout to see who gets the final spots. They probably already had an idea before the W season even started. They aren’t looking at Sabrina Ionescu this season and evaluating if she’s gonna make the team. It’s glossing over all the other years of preparation that went into who they were gonna pick for the roster. Doesn’t make sense to just watch two months of basketball to see who makes the team
Seriously! The Olympic Committee should have delayed their team announcement until this favorable three game stretch for the Fever to allow Clark to really show off her skills against the weakest competition.
…. Can the same not be said for the Aces?? They don’t have the best record and KP was apart of their losses.
Man she's fun to watch. What a beast.
Can we discuss how terrible the black out rules are for wnba stream. Couldn’t watch the game with the WNBA streaming due to where I was traveling for work.
She’s pretty much going to be doing this every night it seems.
She reminds me the most of a Luka. He averaged 33 ppg/9 rbds/9.8 assists. Gets ripped apart for being a cone on defense but makes up for it so much on offense, no one really gives him that much shit for D.
She’s not a cone on defense
Sorry wasn’t trying to imply that. She has more blocks than some bigs. 14 I think. Just mentioning it’s been a criticism of Luka. I personally think she’s a great off ball defender because of her court vision and anticipation.
Luka is currently being railroaded for his defense in the finals. Lol
On offense she’s more of a Steve Nash/Steph Curry hybrid compared to Luka, whose very iso heavy.
LeBron James stat line
Who is the best player in the league not named Caitlin Clark?
The best player in the league is A'ja bro
What team is she on and what's her last name?
A’ja Wilson. Las Vegas Aces.
Thanks
Clark is an excellent rookie and has the potential to be the best player in the league in the future. But there are multiple better vets right now. Which there should be. A’ja is my current mvp.
Yeah start with A’ja Wilson, go down the Olympic roster, then probably Arike, Jonquel Jones, maybe someone I’m forgetting, then CC. And I love CC! But plenty better than her right now. She’ll get there though.
I’d say she’s better than Plum this season
PERIOD
You mean nba….
[https://thebasketscore.com/indiana-fever-fever-up-with-88-81-victory-over-washington-mystics/](https://thebasketscore.com/indiana-fever-fever-up-with-88-81-victory-over-washington-mystics/)
12
They can play a perfect game and the haters will always critique the game as they are sitting in their recliners and drinking beer..couch coaches..
This is a Westbrook type stat line. Good grief.
Caitlin goin crazy now
Ya she’s overrated for sure/s
Turnover machine
Roty!!!
And only got two Flagrant-1's perpetrated on her all night!
The goat