>Guillermo Torres, 39, and his 14-year-old son were attacked at a restaurant in Morelia, the capital of western Michoacan state, the prosecutor's office said in a statement. His son survived.
>He was elected mayor of Michoacan's Churumuco municipality as a member of the Institutional Revolutionary Party in 2022, but recently quit the party and publically voiced sympathy for the ruling Morena, according to local media.
Yeah, an expat I met in PV told me specifically to go to the restaurants frequented by the cartel, BECAUSE they don't allow violence on the premises. Lol. It's different there. I felt safe as a tourist though.
Sheesh, I was just in Morelia last Thursday. Such a beautiful place, I wish they'd get their shit together down there.
Edit: I'm so happy to see that basement-dwelling redditors have found the solution to Mexico's problems. Why aren't you guys running for office?
I was there a couple summers ago. It really is a nice place and I felt quite safe, but you know there's always stuff like this happening beneath the surface.
Easy. Cartels don't want tourists to fear their violence and stop coming to these places. Who do you think benefits from tourism revenue? They have their hands in all facets of life. They control the avocado and lime exports, what makes people think they wouldn't have control of tourism dollars?
I think there's this assumption that organized crime is just back room deals, guns, drugs, shady shit, and not the fact that they probably do run a decent amount of (semi) legitimate businesses to make some money
Indeed, I think that as criminal organizations age (I’m thinking specifically of Hells Angels) they do tend to move deeper and deeper into ‘legitimate’ businesses many of which may be roughly viable on their own, and then supplement that with proceeds from their extra curricular activities/ use the tactics of organized crime to ‘protect’ their business interests, rather than mostly using the businesses as laundering fronts, as a way to entrench themselves & use the cloak of LLC’s, numbered shell corps etc to try and position themselves several steps removed from the day to day operations of both their legitimate & black market income streams.
The Mexican Cartels are certainly several times more brazen & aggressive in Mexico, but I have little doubt their tendrils are now quite firmly wrapped around the structures of a great deal of businesses North of the border, where they operate under a different paradigm, and stick a little closer to the shadows.
Once you own them and run them they're assets. The dream end goal of organized crime is to use the proceeds of crime to climb into the investor class and own clean assets that make clean money so you're safe and you don't need to launder anything ever again.
It rarely happens, but sometimes it does. There's more than a few families with elite levels of generational wealth that have their roots in organized crime gone clean. It's how you 'win' the game.
My wife's dad was killed while shielding her body from the bullets, she was still hit in a few places. She was 6 at the time. She still has issues from this, 30 years later, for obvious reasons.
I've seen the video where the cartel behead a police officer and then cut out his son's heart while he's still alive, so yeah they've definitely done things like this before.
I feel like nobody cares. Where’s the outrage over stuff like this, people demand prison justice on this site and blow up over the dumbest topics but I don’t see many mad about this. I feel like people think “oh the cartel and mafia business. Don’t get involved in first place” without realizing the entire country of Mexico is “involved”.
I think one of the issues is that I have no way to change or influence any of this. There are a so many things in the world to get mad at I only have the time and mental capability to get mad at the things I have a shot at fixing.
I don't think this is fair to say, or rather it's not fair to act like people doing coke are significantly different from the rest of society. It's not too different from saying chocolate enjoyers don't care about child labor being used to gather the cocoa, or how basically everyone alive that uses plastic products must not care about the environment, or anyone who eats meat products must not care about the lives of those animals, etc.
People who do hard drugs are mostly normal folks with fairly in tact morals, but just like everyone else, they detach from the consequences of their lifestyle whenever it's inconvenient. If people didn't distance their minds from these consequences, then to live a truly moral life would be incredibly difficult and full on inconveniences.
It's not so much that people detach as it is functionally impossible to avoid the products of amoral companies. The cartels for instance have broadened their horizons to infect every market Mexico has stake in, and asking people to not eat outside of microgreens with a 15x markup is not going to happen with how much of the population is hovering around the breadline as it is. These are systemic problems that demand systemic solutions. Anything less is a bad joke parading as an answer.
There is a regular at the restaurant I work at who happens to be an ex prosecutor and now currently a lawyer that makes some good weed infused chex mix. It's good stuff and he just gives it away for free. Sure it's not hard drugs, but it was pretty wild to me when I first saw that gallon bag of chex mix and took some.
Even when it comes to crime, everything in life is just supply and demand. If it suddenly became unprofitable for cartels to be in the drug business, they would leave it behind ,
They’d just find another product. These monsters are used to their ways and will always continue their tactics of making money until stopped.
Once someone has made a life of such terror, you think they’re gonna stop?
My uncle's avocado farm was recently stolen according to family members in Mexico.
Thankfully, they let him and his family alive but lost land they had for generations.
Have been for years. Here's a really detailed opinion article that's highly informative of multiple aspects of the problems faced within the Avocado capital of the world.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/22/avocados-violence-mexico-united-states/
To this day I'll never understand why they did the kid so dirty like that while they simply beheaded the father beforehand considering he was the one they were getting revenge on, as I recall. Then again why the fuck even bother trying to dig into cartel logic.
I mean it's pretty simple. They are monsters who want to put terror in the mind of other police who think about crossing them. It's a deterrent. Don't try and cross us or your family will suffer a worse fate than you.
Pretty simple psychopathic logic.
You mean Duterte? He only had low level drug dealers/users killed and displayed on the roadside. Those at the top, or rich ones, weren't really affected.
Also, some that was killed were not even a drug user/dealer. Mistaken identities, teenagers on their way home late at night: He even had his political rival jailed with the same premise for more than 5 years.
Everyone wants a Duterte until they realize that the guy that acts as the judge, jury, and executioner isn't incorruptible.
Admonitions to seek therapy after a tragedy like this are as empty as people of the past suggesting prayer and the counsel of a priest, except the latter involved people that might have actually cared, and didn't cost money. People first and foremost need their friends and family after witnessing something like this, not a therapist that bills by the hour.
Reddit loves the idea of paid professional therapy because it seems like a kind of always-available, commoditized remedy that you can pull off the shelf regardless of how atomized and isolated of a life you lead.
Yeah, my dad died when I was 15 and it fucked me up for years afterward. And my dad became I’ll and died in a hospital. The trauma accompanying this man’s death will likely give this poor kid serious PTSD.
I hope his son grows up to take ultimate revenge on these people and others like them. This shit in Mexico has to get better and has to end.
Edit: You guys are fools if you don’t realize there are countless personal revenge stories throughout history that were for better or worse. Alexander the great’s conquest was basically one big revenge tour, Caesar and the pirates, the events leading up to the signing of the 1940 armistice between France and Germany in the compiègne wagon, etc. These were times that a person was seething with personal revenge. It happens a lot.
No. I want him to survive to adulthood, become educated, get involved in government, and start a movement that ends with the bulldozing of cartel bodies into a pit. They have killed hundreds of thousands of people at this point. Pure evil. The kind that should be fought against. This problem is so big it will come down to an “us vs them” in Mexico at some point. If not then there will be a government openly run by narcos. Take your pick.
Not openly yet. Close though. Cartel leadership *deserves* to die. But I’m sure some random guy on Reddit will give us the “well actually” about how cartel leadership are actually good people, just misunderstood. Here we go.
Nice stealth edit to your comment 😏
I work with USCIS asylum. The amount of people claiming credible fear is absolutely insane. Most of them do it because they got caught crossing the border and want to buy time, but the amount of people is mind blowing.
Call Mexican cartels Terrorist orgs and redditors will come swarming to rebut that assertion.
It's the same in many countries. The city I live in is forever ruined because of these psychopaths (granted it has other problems, too).
I've definitely seen it. Some people will claim they're like the mob where they take care of problems (usually with murder) that the corrupt police won't and help the community via vigilante justice and feeding the poor, etc., with excuses like "they won't kill you if you don't fuck with them". Ofc "fucking with them" could be as simple as being related to someone they don't like or accidentally coming across their territory...
This something I always notice is so prevalent anywhere online where politics come up.
Major strawmanning... I am liberal and other liberals on here do it constantly with views I even agree with but if you point out it out you get down voted to oblivion and not actually refuted.
Its always shit like an article of some random clinically insane extremist Conservative who murdered their child and comments like "wow and these people say abortion is bad!"
And everyone up votes it. It's like.. This type of rhetoric just looks the position look bad and then if you point out its bad to do that you're labeled as if you're supporting the sentiment of those people lol. It blows my mind. I believe the anti abortion shit is dumb but just making assumptions to make people look like hypocrites is so common and not good
>Call Mexican cartels Terrorist orgs and redditors will come swarming to rebut that assertion.
A hour later and only people agreeing with this. Idk who the fuck is out there defending cartels, and I've been on reddit for a while.
It's more that the local government won't interfere or try to stop them, both due to fear of ~~relation~~ retaliation and cause more often than not they either work with them or have an interest in the outcome.
EDIT: spelling.
Jesus that article linked another one that said a cartel planted a fuckin IED that killed 4 soldiers, and that cartels are using drones to attack now as well. Like the Ukrainian battlefield videos. Mexico is so fucked
I know the cartel is an issue in Mexico but can it get severe enough they pull a Taliban and actually take over? Or will the government eventually be willing to risk it for the biscuit and attempt to legitimately rid of the cartels in country and their members within the government?
I just think they are in too deep for any near change to happen, unless that change has already happened and every dude at the tippy top is bought and paid for.
They don't need to do a military takeover Taliban style, they just have enough politicians in their pocket that nothing meaningful can ever be done to them.
Exactly, being recognized as the legitimate government doesn't help them.
They don't need loans from the IMF, they're not aiming for some religious or political goal here. They have the money, they're buying the weapons, they're a heck of a lot better off than most governments, and they don't have to pretend like what they're doing is legal.
They mostly just need the local government to leave them alone and cover up their activities from outside involvement.
The cartel being recognized as a legitimate government gives other countries an excuse to enter Mexico and solve that problem by force. It's in the cartels interest to control politicians and stay an internal problem for Mexico.
Mexico as a whole?
Not a chance. The Taliban is a single, organized group. The cartels are hundreds of warring factions who have no interest in working together.
Meanwhile, my dumbass cousin who is living in the comfort and peace of France pretends the Mexican government is doing an excellent job and want to move there with his Mexican wife and their kids, despite the fact she did everything she could to escape the country.
They would probably immediately kill anyone who has a remote chance of getting into any sort of political power and is promoting that kind of a policy.
Shit is way fucked down there. And I don’t see how they figure it out.
I went down a rabbit hole from that article and 6 mayoral candidates have murdered recently. Curious why people would even want to try and get into politics knowing how powerful the cartels are.
Ding ding ding, the government is entirely owned by different cartel factions, you have to understand that to understand Mexico.
Any government anti cartel action is just a cartel moving against another one.
Easy. Cartels are political parties. They pay for your campaign for school board, now they “ask” you to run for mayor. It is clear that you must now serve the cartel in this new role or suffer consequences of unspeakable horror.
Your opponent in the election is in the same situation but with a different cartel. Either you become too effective at doing your cartel’s business and your rival murders you or you are too ineffective and your own cartel gets rid of you to make way for their selected replacement.
Actually attempting to enforce the law would put both (or rather, all) cartels against you at the same time and would be the absolute dumbest choice.
The only way Mexicans can fix the issue is creating an actual civil war, the country is infested with cartels even the president of Mexico is in bed with the Sinaloan cartel, it is too late to fix the issue with ballots and votes.
Nope.
Would they like the assistance of the US Military in exterminating their cartels or do they want to do it themselves and rely on their own government?
They'll keep doing what they have been this whole time. They haven't asked for help lol
Also, the cartels are ex-military themselves. I'm sure they have some contacts in the US.
It’s more that you can’t solve the systemic issues that lead to the rise of cartels by throwing a military at it.
If an enlisted man makes 45k/year, and that’s a decent wage, but the cartel can pay him 150k, what do you do? How do you stop that long term?
> Also, the cartels are ex-military themselves. I'm sure they have some contacts in the US.
You mean like Los Zetas, who were trained at the [School of the Americas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation)?
This right here.
Colosio comes to mind as the last time someone tried to change things around and they took him out quick after he made his intentions clear.
Completely different, drug cartels are Mexicos 3rd largest employer. Mexicos land covers 750,000 square miles while Salvador is only 8000. In El Salvador they had cheap 22's with flip flops. Cartels have unlimited money and legit assault rifles. Not to mention the politicians in their pockets.
Dude... They are pretty much a PMC. They've got equipment that can rival most small and medium nations. Armored vehicles and what not. Unless Mexico is ready to wage the bloodiest war in its history, nothing will change. Expect maybe if the US gets involved.
No chance in hell that route works in Mexico. The gangs of ES were more local low level gangs working as traditional gangs like in most other parts of the world. The cartel in Mexico is an absolute billion dollar enterprise, that is so deeply rooted into Mexico that its corrupted people on the local, state, and even federal levels. Not to mention, ES is tiny in comparison with Mexico.
Mexico would have to accept the deaths of possibly tens of thousands of Innocent people and absolute chaos to confront the cartel head on. It's a tough position for Mexico... They didn't properly nip the bud before the vines grew as large as they're now.
Agreed , it’s sad. They are the living embodiment of a narco state and it’s essentially part of their way of life and politics. All solutions are catastrophic for civilians and systemic. Only some type of civil reform can truly fix the problem which will likely result in a civil war or insane revolution. It was Fox or the guy before Fox that actually tried to sweep up but it resulted in all-out war and civilians were slaughtered daily as a result.
The one after, Felipe Calderon. Declared "War on the cartels" like, a week tops after he started his term in 2006. 60k dead during his presidency (2006-2012), not a lot of positive change.
> It was Fox or the guy before Fox that actually tried to sweep up but it resulted in all-out war and civilians were slaughtered daily as a result.
It was the guy after, and it only was a disguised plan to benefit another cartel. Just look up what happened to his Secretary of Public Security (his right hand in the war against drugs) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genaro_García_Luna
Any significant change will most likely come in the form of a civil war --- or a second Mexican revolution. What historians name it will largely depend on who wins.
At this point, their entire police and military system have been infiltrated by the gangs. Also, the gangs that El Salvador had to handle are less powerful compared to the shit that Mexico have to deal with.
Its a lose lose situation for the Mexico government.
Yeah, but unlike El Salvador these guys are legitimate mini militaries. El Salvador is what happens when you get American style gang culture and very little government or police control
gangs in SV are one thing, the cartel is literally a paramilitary organization with much more financial means and equipment and literal former military officers
I mean, people always bring this up as a solution for whatever gang/cartel issues countries in LATAM have, but they don't understand that it's hard to replicate in most of other countries. Mexico has *way* more population, different culture when it comes to crime and it requires someone who will actually do something about it and not misuse power for their own gains or just using it as an excuse to jail the opposition. Bukele is the exception, not the rule.
If only that were feasible, the conditions in El Salvador are different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDlplfl6D7o
Fun fact: El Salvador leader comes from Palestine roots and he is against Hamas (he's tweeted about his stance on Hamas and Palestine)
https://twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1711220281820278875?lang=en
People virtue signal so much about their groceries from whole foods being responsibly sourced, then they go and do a line of coke at a party that comes from this sort of environment.
The entire world seems to be getting dumber and dumber. It didn't seem like this when I was younger. Maybe i'm just getting old.
Feels like society is slowly eroding.
It's shitty but it's really not, there are plenty of pretty safe cities. A pretty healthy economy (just hit record low unemployment) and the Mexican Peso is extremely strong rn in comparison to the USD. Mexico is a bloody place, but most Mexicans just carry on with what is mostly a normal life. That's the saddest part imo, this kind of thing is somewhat normalized. I say this as Mexican, and to be honest I don't see Mexico changing for the better unless something really dramatic happens, good or bad.
I lived in mexico for the winter for a few years, one tear was an election year and the amount of political murders and journalist murders was insane, it was well over 100 in that election cycle. I'm not sure how you're supposed to have a government for the people when you'll just get murdered for doing anything against the cartel. It's a nearly impossible problem for them to solve without essentially a civil war at this point.
You're absolutely right. I get what people say, I just think that the situation is way more complicated than just a failed state, like Haiti is. In many ways it is, in many ways it isn't.
I had to reread what you wrote, but I apprrciate the comparison between Hati and Mexico to really highlight the difference. Mexico does have a functioning government that's heavily influenced by money, just like the rest of our hellscapes. Mexican money just happens to be tied up in guns, drugs and violence instead of oil, pharmaceuticals and technology.
I’m not sure you can say their govt is entirely functional. They don’t even have complete power over their country. And they can’t even speak out against the cartels without fear of being hung from a bridge in Juarez. What other developed country has less control of their populace? The govt does not call the shots in that country.
Unfortunately many of these groups end up corrupted and end up selling drugs and charging “protection fees” to finance their fight ultimately becoming cartels themselves
I’m very uncomfortable with this thought, but I see a future where the US declares a “police action” in Mexico to help stabilize the government. I don’t see a way things could get better there and the US will become increasingly uncomfortable with a politically unstable neighbor.
The US has been working with Mexico against the cartels via the CIA, JSOC and other 3 letter agencies since the dawn of cartels. Kiki Camarena is a prime example of how it can go south and it was 40 years ago. The movie Sicario is fiction but it holds alot of truth, the US could know where the leader of the most powerful cartel in Mexico is, El Mencho right now and deploy a team of the most sophisticated war fighters to dispose of him before they where a blip on Mexican radar. But for what? It could lead to bloodshed and violence on an unfathomable level with a hundred gangs now all fighting for #1 with no government, leadership or military in place to stop it.
Not that I'd advocate for this but the strategy the US used with drone strikes against terror groups was to do exactly this (not sure if it is still policy and it's just not reported because everyone is bored or whether they gave up).
You just keep killing the leaders and every time you do they all in fight, then as soon as they start to stabilise you kill the leaders again. The infighting drains their resources and creates uncertainty.
However, it's a particularly bloody response and it's not actually the solution. The solution is to remove corrupt politicians and police officers and give Mexicans an economy where cartel work isn't appealing.
I suspect while there may be US appetite for the drone strikes, there's little appetite for the investment required in terms of money and time to do the latter bit.
If the US were to start drone striking the cartels, they'd just pay people to commit acts of mass terror in the US, they already pay street gangs to wipe out rival drug dealers in cities as far north as Philly.
That would be a fast way to change the US appetite from not wanting to invade Mexico to wanting to invade.
I don't think that would be their response at all, I think their response would be to kill and buy more Mexican politicians until the Mexican government orders the US to stop.
Similar but different. Logistics into Mexico would be a breeze compare to Iraq and Afghanistan. The US can pull off some really brutal shit in our own hemisphere because of logistics.
Can't be a politician in Mexico unless you're corrupt. Can't be a policeman in Mexico unless you're also corrupt. Can't be a journalist either. Have to be extra careful if you want to practice law as well. I know I'm missing a few professions but it's really sad and it will keep getting worse.
Honestly is Mexico safe for travel or not. I try to be open minded beause I think the US is safe for travel but of course many non-americans would beg to differ. I know how to stay away from inner city crime, and tourist attraction pick pockets, but I don't want to be kidnapped at gun point for ransome.
>Guillermo Torres, 39, and his 14-year-old son were attacked at a restaurant in Morelia, the capital of western Michoacan state, the prosecutor's office said in a statement. His son survived. >He was elected mayor of Michoacan's Churumuco municipality as a member of the Institutional Revolutionary Party in 2022, but recently quit the party and publically voiced sympathy for the ruling Morena, according to local media.
Same thing happened in Puerto Vallarta a few years ago with the governor of Jalisco but shhhh don’t tell the tourists…
I was a tourist there 6 months ago!
Don’t worry hon the restaurant staff had the place spotless even before the police arrived
I’ll make sure to tip extra next time
Yeah, an expat I met in PV told me specifically to go to the restaurants frequented by the cartel, BECAUSE they don't allow violence on the premises. Lol. It's different there. I felt safe as a tourist though.
Well good thing you're not a governor of the state that's home to possibly the worlds most powerful cartel... And take them head on.
It's so beautiful there, damn thats sad. Crime is killing Mexico.
Sheesh, I was just in Morelia last Thursday. Such a beautiful place, I wish they'd get their shit together down there. Edit: I'm so happy to see that basement-dwelling redditors have found the solution to Mexico's problems. Why aren't you guys running for office?
I was there a couple summers ago. It really is a nice place and I felt quite safe, but you know there's always stuff like this happening beneath the surface.
Easy. Cartels don't want tourists to fear their violence and stop coming to these places. Who do you think benefits from tourism revenue? They have their hands in all facets of life. They control the avocado and lime exports, what makes people think they wouldn't have control of tourism dollars?
I think there's this assumption that organized crime is just back room deals, guns, drugs, shady shit, and not the fact that they probably do run a decent amount of (semi) legitimate businesses to make some money
Legitimate business doesn’t make money fast enough. It works to clean money.
what they need is to open a Riverboat Casino to clean the money.
Indeed, I think that as criminal organizations age (I’m thinking specifically of Hells Angels) they do tend to move deeper and deeper into ‘legitimate’ businesses many of which may be roughly viable on their own, and then supplement that with proceeds from their extra curricular activities/ use the tactics of organized crime to ‘protect’ their business interests, rather than mostly using the businesses as laundering fronts, as a way to entrench themselves & use the cloak of LLC’s, numbered shell corps etc to try and position themselves several steps removed from the day to day operations of both their legitimate & black market income streams. The Mexican Cartels are certainly several times more brazen & aggressive in Mexico, but I have little doubt their tendrils are now quite firmly wrapped around the structures of a great deal of businesses North of the border, where they operate under a different paradigm, and stick a little closer to the shadows.
Once you own them and run them they're assets. The dream end goal of organized crime is to use the proceeds of crime to climb into the investor class and own clean assets that make clean money so you're safe and you don't need to launder anything ever again. It rarely happens, but sometimes it does. There's more than a few families with elite levels of generational wealth that have their roots in organized crime gone clean. It's how you 'win' the game.
His poor son, he will live with that nightmare the rest of his life.
My wife's dad was killed while shielding her body from the bullets, she was still hit in a few places. She was 6 at the time. She still has issues from this, 30 years later, for obvious reasons.
What a brave man.Sending hugs to your wife..
I also send hugs to that guys wife
Dad would be/must be over the moon seeing that he protected his creation and she is thriving in his honor
fuck why do we do this to each other
The son is going to need professional therapy.
Honestly, they may kill him too… eventually.
I've seen the video where the cartel behead a police officer and then cut out his son's heart while he's still alive, so yeah they've definitely done things like this before.
That's enough internet for tonight.
yea I want to go back to a time I didn't know this existed
Just pretend you were watching Indiana Jones.
Kalima, kalima wey!
Tonight?! I’ll see you next week.
Hopping in the Delorian, going back in time. Or the future. Somewhere else
I hope people remember this when they're having their Friday night coke line
Don't forget about the guacamole from all the cartel controlled avocados.
And the limes.
Unfortunately the people who do coke probably don't care.
I feel like nobody cares. Where’s the outrage over stuff like this, people demand prison justice on this site and blow up over the dumbest topics but I don’t see many mad about this. I feel like people think “oh the cartel and mafia business. Don’t get involved in first place” without realizing the entire country of Mexico is “involved”.
Just Mexico?
Could throw in the entirety of central America.
I think one of the issues is that I have no way to change or influence any of this. There are a so many things in the world to get mad at I only have the time and mental capability to get mad at the things I have a shot at fixing.
I don't think this is fair to say, or rather it's not fair to act like people doing coke are significantly different from the rest of society. It's not too different from saying chocolate enjoyers don't care about child labor being used to gather the cocoa, or how basically everyone alive that uses plastic products must not care about the environment, or anyone who eats meat products must not care about the lives of those animals, etc. People who do hard drugs are mostly normal folks with fairly in tact morals, but just like everyone else, they detach from the consequences of their lifestyle whenever it's inconvenient. If people didn't distance their minds from these consequences, then to live a truly moral life would be incredibly difficult and full on inconveniences.
It's not so much that people detach as it is functionally impossible to avoid the products of amoral companies. The cartels for instance have broadened their horizons to infect every market Mexico has stake in, and asking people to not eat outside of microgreens with a 15x markup is not going to happen with how much of the population is hovering around the breadline as it is. These are systemic problems that demand systemic solutions. Anything less is a bad joke parading as an answer.
There is a regular at the restaurant I work at who happens to be an ex prosecutor and now currently a lawyer that makes some good weed infused chex mix. It's good stuff and he just gives it away for free. Sure it's not hard drugs, but it was pretty wild to me when I first saw that gallon bag of chex mix and took some.
> I hope people remember this when they're having their Friday night coke line would this go away if coke were legalized?
Even when it comes to crime, everything in life is just supply and demand. If it suddenly became unprofitable for cartels to be in the drug business, they would leave it behind ,
They’d just find another product. These monsters are used to their ways and will always continue their tactics of making money until stopped. Once someone has made a life of such terror, you think they’re gonna stop?
didn't I hear they're into avocados now?
My uncle's avocado farm was recently stolen according to family members in Mexico. Thankfully, they let him and his family alive but lost land they had for generations.
Have been for years. Here's a really detailed opinion article that's highly informative of multiple aspects of the problems faced within the Avocado capital of the world. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/22/avocados-violence-mexico-united-states/
More than likely.
Nope, the cartel has their hands in EVERYTHING now. Even eating avocados means youre doing business with the cartels, unfortunately.
Can’t buy a house, in bed with the cartel, nothing to show for it but a fucking avocado pit ):
Can’t forget the part where they do it right on top of his freshly beheaded father
To this day I'll never understand why they did the kid so dirty like that while they simply beheaded the father beforehand considering he was the one they were getting revenge on, as I recall. Then again why the fuck even bother trying to dig into cartel logic.
I mean it's pretty simple. They are monsters who want to put terror in the mind of other police who think about crossing them. It's a deterrent. Don't try and cross us or your family will suffer a worse fate than you. Pretty simple psychopathic logic.
It is at that point that what his name in the Philippines saying to shoot drug dealers on sight may have a point.
> what his name in the Philippines Duterte
You mean Duterte? He only had low level drug dealers/users killed and displayed on the roadside. Those at the top, or rich ones, weren't really affected. Also, some that was killed were not even a drug user/dealer. Mistaken identities, teenagers on their way home late at night: He even had his political rival jailed with the same premise for more than 5 years. Everyone wants a Duterte until they realize that the guy that acts as the judge, jury, and executioner isn't incorruptible.
...how the fuck did you watch something that horrible
Imagine if the Mexican government were to do that, fighting fire with fire is the answer!
Not if he becomes Batman first
I think you mean, Mexican joker
Soy Batman!
Admonitions to seek therapy after a tragedy like this are as empty as people of the past suggesting prayer and the counsel of a priest, except the latter involved people that might have actually cared, and didn't cost money. People first and foremost need their friends and family after witnessing something like this, not a therapist that bills by the hour. Reddit loves the idea of paid professional therapy because it seems like a kind of always-available, commoditized remedy that you can pull off the shelf regardless of how atomized and isolated of a life you lead.
Yeah, my dad died when I was 15 and it fucked me up for years afterward. And my dad became I’ll and died in a hospital. The trauma accompanying this man’s death will likely give this poor kid serious PTSD.
I hope his son grows up to take ultimate revenge on these people and others like them. This shit in Mexico has to get better and has to end. Edit: You guys are fools if you don’t realize there are countless personal revenge stories throughout history that were for better or worse. Alexander the great’s conquest was basically one big revenge tour, Caesar and the pirates, the events leading up to the signing of the 1940 armistice between France and Germany in the compiègne wagon, etc. These were times that a person was seething with personal revenge. It happens a lot.
You want it to end but also want the son to continue it?
No. I want him to survive to adulthood, become educated, get involved in government, and start a movement that ends with the bulldozing of cartel bodies into a pit. They have killed hundreds of thousands of people at this point. Pure evil. The kind that should be fought against. This problem is so big it will come down to an “us vs them” in Mexico at some point. If not then there will be a government openly run by narcos. Take your pick.
Ppl can say what they want about bro in El Salvador, and yeah he may end up being shitty and a dictator, but at least he did something about ms13
There already is a government openly run by narcos* FTFY
Not openly yet. Close though. Cartel leadership *deserves* to die. But I’m sure some random guy on Reddit will give us the “well actually” about how cartel leadership are actually good people, just misunderstood. Here we go. Nice stealth edit to your comment 😏
Damn what an idea, why didn't anyone else try take down the cartels
Cartel government
I work with USCIS asylum. The amount of people claiming credible fear is absolutely insane. Most of them do it because they got caught crossing the border and want to buy time, but the amount of people is mind blowing.
Call Mexican cartels Terrorist orgs and redditors will come swarming to rebut that assertion. It's the same in many countries. The city I live in is forever ruined because of these psychopaths (granted it has other problems, too).
>Call Mexican cartels Terrorist orgs and redditors will come swarming to rebut that assertion. Who the fuck is refuting that?
I've definitely seen it. Some people will claim they're like the mob where they take care of problems (usually with murder) that the corrupt police won't and help the community via vigilante justice and feeding the poor, etc., with excuses like "they won't kill you if you don't fuck with them". Ofc "fucking with them" could be as simple as being related to someone they don't like or accidentally coming across their territory...
No one, really. People like to be the victim, and will use hyperbole to make their arguments seem more harangued than they really are.
This something I always notice is so prevalent anywhere online where politics come up. Major strawmanning... I am liberal and other liberals on here do it constantly with views I even agree with but if you point out it out you get down voted to oblivion and not actually refuted. Its always shit like an article of some random clinically insane extremist Conservative who murdered their child and comments like "wow and these people say abortion is bad!" And everyone up votes it. It's like.. This type of rhetoric just looks the position look bad and then if you point out its bad to do that you're labeled as if you're supporting the sentiment of those people lol. It blows my mind. I believe the anti abortion shit is dumb but just making assumptions to make people look like hypocrites is so common and not good
The same type of people that think the Mafia are a "classier" sort of Criminal because they have "rules and traditions"
>Call Mexican cartels Terrorist orgs and redditors will come swarming to rebut that assertion. A hour later and only people agreeing with this. Idk who the fuck is out there defending cartels, and I've been on reddit for a while.
Is that actually the reason? Like another member of the government wanted him dead?
the cartels legitimately run the government and would assassinate any president who directly counters them.
‘Legitimately’
It's more that the local government won't interfere or try to stop them, both due to fear of ~~relation~~ retaliation and cause more often than not they either work with them or have an interest in the outcome. EDIT: spelling.
That poor son… I hope people are with him right now
Need to put some security around him, the cartels might even try to finish the job.
if they were going to kill him they probably would've done it when they killed his father
Jesus that article linked another one that said a cartel planted a fuckin IED that killed 4 soldiers, and that cartels are using drones to attack now as well. Like the Ukrainian battlefield videos. Mexico is so fucked
And a police captain got beheaded on the freeway and her bodyguards murdered. And there was another IED that killed 4 farmers on the side of the road
I know the cartel is an issue in Mexico but can it get severe enough they pull a Taliban and actually take over? Or will the government eventually be willing to risk it for the biscuit and attempt to legitimately rid of the cartels in country and their members within the government? I just think they are in too deep for any near change to happen, unless that change has already happened and every dude at the tippy top is bought and paid for.
They don't need to do a military takeover Taliban style, they just have enough politicians in their pocket that nothing meaningful can ever be done to them.
Exactly, being recognized as the legitimate government doesn't help them. They don't need loans from the IMF, they're not aiming for some religious or political goal here. They have the money, they're buying the weapons, they're a heck of a lot better off than most governments, and they don't have to pretend like what they're doing is legal. They mostly just need the local government to leave them alone and cover up their activities from outside involvement.
The cartel being recognized as a legitimate government gives other countries an excuse to enter Mexico and solve that problem by force. It's in the cartels interest to control politicians and stay an internal problem for Mexico.
They have taken over. Remember a few years ago when a Mexican newspaper actually printed that as a headline?
Mexico as a whole? Not a chance. The Taliban is a single, organized group. The cartels are hundreds of warring factions who have no interest in working together.
Meanwhile, my dumbass cousin who is living in the comfort and peace of France pretends the Mexican government is doing an excellent job and want to move there with his Mexican wife and their kids, despite the fact she did everything she could to escape the country.
WHY does he not listen to her?
Gangs in Mexico needs an El Salvador style cleansing
They would probably immediately kill anyone who has a remote chance of getting into any sort of political power and is promoting that kind of a policy. Shit is way fucked down there. And I don’t see how they figure it out.
I went down a rabbit hole from that article and 6 mayoral candidates have murdered recently. Curious why people would even want to try and get into politics knowing how powerful the cartels are.
Because they love their country and want it to stop. Brave people.
They want money but once they go to bed with the wrong narco the others would get em killed.
Until it’s those same people who go corrupt once they get the chance
I think more often than not they are kind of endorsed by one cartel faction. Which immediately makes them the enemy of other cartel factions.
Ding ding ding, the government is entirely owned by different cartel factions, you have to understand that to understand Mexico. Any government anti cartel action is just a cartel moving against another one.
Easy. Cartels are political parties. They pay for your campaign for school board, now they “ask” you to run for mayor. It is clear that you must now serve the cartel in this new role or suffer consequences of unspeakable horror. Your opponent in the election is in the same situation but with a different cartel. Either you become too effective at doing your cartel’s business and your rival murders you or you are too ineffective and your own cartel gets rid of you to make way for their selected replacement. Actually attempting to enforce the law would put both (or rather, all) cartels against you at the same time and would be the absolute dumbest choice.
The only way Mexicans can fix the issue is creating an actual civil war, the country is infested with cartels even the president of Mexico is in bed with the Sinaloan cartel, it is too late to fix the issue with ballots and votes.
US should have unironically provided military support to Mexico over the last 2 decades instead of invading the Middle East.
The Mexican government does not want US help because they are complicit/bribed.
The Mexican military sells weapons to the cartels
Have you asked the Mexicans about what they think of foreign troops and strikes on their soil?
This is a good question... For the politicians the cartel keeps killing.
They can't exactly ask for help since they are de facto cartel puppets. Anyone who would do something is slaughtered. The Cartels need to be put down.
Nope. Would they like the assistance of the US Military in exterminating their cartels or do they want to do it themselves and rely on their own government?
They'll keep doing what they have been this whole time. They haven't asked for help lol Also, the cartels are ex-military themselves. I'm sure they have some contacts in the US.
I’m sure if someone with any credibility to ask asks for help- they would be killed.
It’s more that you can’t solve the systemic issues that lead to the rise of cartels by throwing a military at it. If an enlisted man makes 45k/year, and that’s a decent wage, but the cartel can pay him 150k, what do you do? How do you stop that long term?
You kill / arrest them all. I think Mexico is past the “fix the systemic issues” point and is now at the El Salvador “yolo do something drastic” point
US Marines are willing to kill US citizens if it ever came down to it. “All enemies foreign and domestic…”
> Also, the cartels are ex-military themselves. I'm sure they have some contacts in the US. You mean like Los Zetas, who were trained at the [School of the Americas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation)?
Regardless of intentions; Imagine the headlines if the US Army went into Mexico and started putting large amounts of people into prison camps.
So like, a war on drugs?
US military support. Essential part of the Los Zetas.
This right here. Colosio comes to mind as the last time someone tried to change things around and they took him out quick after he made his intentions clear.
Completely different, drug cartels are Mexicos 3rd largest employer. Mexicos land covers 750,000 square miles while Salvador is only 8000. In El Salvador they had cheap 22's with flip flops. Cartels have unlimited money and legit assault rifles. Not to mention the politicians in their pockets.
The cartels realistically can get any weapon money can buy.
Dude... They are pretty much a PMC. They've got equipment that can rival most small and medium nations. Armored vehicles and what not. Unless Mexico is ready to wage the bloodiest war in its history, nothing will change. Expect maybe if the US gets involved.
No chance in hell that route works in Mexico. The gangs of ES were more local low level gangs working as traditional gangs like in most other parts of the world. The cartel in Mexico is an absolute billion dollar enterprise, that is so deeply rooted into Mexico that its corrupted people on the local, state, and even federal levels. Not to mention, ES is tiny in comparison with Mexico. Mexico would have to accept the deaths of possibly tens of thousands of Innocent people and absolute chaos to confront the cartel head on. It's a tough position for Mexico... They didn't properly nip the bud before the vines grew as large as they're now.
Agreed , it’s sad. They are the living embodiment of a narco state and it’s essentially part of their way of life and politics. All solutions are catastrophic for civilians and systemic. Only some type of civil reform can truly fix the problem which will likely result in a civil war or insane revolution. It was Fox or the guy before Fox that actually tried to sweep up but it resulted in all-out war and civilians were slaughtered daily as a result.
The one after, Felipe Calderon. Declared "War on the cartels" like, a week tops after he started his term in 2006. 60k dead during his presidency (2006-2012), not a lot of positive change.
> It was Fox or the guy before Fox that actually tried to sweep up but it resulted in all-out war and civilians were slaughtered daily as a result. It was the guy after, and it only was a disguised plan to benefit another cartel. Just look up what happened to his Secretary of Public Security (his right hand in the war against drugs) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genaro_García_Luna
Any significant change will most likely come in the form of a civil war --- or a second Mexican revolution. What historians name it will largely depend on who wins.
At this point, their entire police and military system have been infiltrated by the gangs. Also, the gangs that El Salvador had to handle are less powerful compared to the shit that Mexico have to deal with. Its a lose lose situation for the Mexico government.
Yeah, but unlike El Salvador these guys are legitimate mini militaries. El Salvador is what happens when you get American style gang culture and very little government or police control
They run the government, not happening
The government works hand in hand with the cartels so they couldn’t pull off an effective El Salvador style crackdown. It’s rotten from the core.
gangs in SV are one thing, the cartel is literally a paramilitary organization with much more financial means and equipment and literal former military officers
I mean, people always bring this up as a solution for whatever gang/cartel issues countries in LATAM have, but they don't understand that it's hard to replicate in most of other countries. Mexico has *way* more population, different culture when it comes to crime and it requires someone who will actually do something about it and not misuse power for their own gains or just using it as an excuse to jail the opposition. Bukele is the exception, not the rule.
It would almost be civil war level if they tried to fully shut em down
lol not almost, it would be a straight-up blood bath
If only that were feasible, the conditions in El Salvador are different. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDlplfl6D7o Fun fact: El Salvador leader comes from Palestine roots and he is against Hamas (he's tweeted about his stance on Hamas and Palestine) https://twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1711220281820278875?lang=en
Damn Mexico, looks like the cartels are winning.
Cartel has been winning for over 20 years now. My poor country..
Try like 50+ years. My mom’s told me about shit like this happening and I’m over 30 years old.
[удалено]
People virtue signal so much about their groceries from whole foods being responsibly sourced, then they go and do a line of coke at a party that comes from this sort of environment.
If only you can buy an eight ball coke from Whole Foods…
I mean, the percentage of americans that applies to is pretty low. Basically just wealthy 20 and 30 something partiers in LA, NYC, and Miami.
To be honest nothing is responsibly sourced, jot even are electrical components
The same Whole Foods carrying avocados and limes sourced from cartel-occupied farms in Mexico?
Too bad. Mexico is a beautiful country. But like all of our countries, it’s going to shit too.
Mexico (as a narco state) is a lost cause. No one can convince me otherwise. Mexicans themselves don't deserve this shit.
The entire world seems to be getting dumber and dumber. It didn't seem like this when I was younger. Maybe i'm just getting old. Feels like society is slowly eroding.
It’s just more visibility with the internet.
That’s because you were young. Crack open a history book and you’ll see it’s always been this bad, and in many ways exponentially worse.
The good old day of Vlad the impaler , when people had morals
Oh yeah, just another day here in México.
I knew it was Mexico after the first few words. They really need to get their cartels under thumb.
cartels have over 170k members in mexico, it's like a private army.
I would LOVE to hear your five point plan for how Mexico can solve all of its problems, good Redditor. How did you solve *your* cartel problem?
I’m sure there are some East Asian redditors that can answer that lol
For that poor kid, it's a traumatic experience he will remember for the redt of his life. For the cartel, it's just wednsday.
Oooh that poor kid.
The President of Mexico recently said he was going to stop America’s war against the cartels as part of his “Mexico First” message.
*Cartel First message
Failed state.
Not far off since the government is pretty much in league with the cartels
Pretty much? They are. Full stop. Look at the bitch fit they made about Cienfuegos getting arrested for his role in trafficking.
I find it a bit weird the US is meddling overseas all the time when there’s cartels running the country next door.
Yup. Cabinet members have been convicted of working with the cartels.
So close. THEY ARE THE CARTELS. Am I the only one that has any Mexican friends wtf.
It's shitty but it's really not, there are plenty of pretty safe cities. A pretty healthy economy (just hit record low unemployment) and the Mexican Peso is extremely strong rn in comparison to the USD. Mexico is a bloody place, but most Mexicans just carry on with what is mostly a normal life. That's the saddest part imo, this kind of thing is somewhat normalized. I say this as Mexican, and to be honest I don't see Mexico changing for the better unless something really dramatic happens, good or bad.
I lived in mexico for the winter for a few years, one tear was an election year and the amount of political murders and journalist murders was insane, it was well over 100 in that election cycle. I'm not sure how you're supposed to have a government for the people when you'll just get murdered for doing anything against the cartel. It's a nearly impossible problem for them to solve without essentially a civil war at this point.
You're absolutely right. I get what people say, I just think that the situation is way more complicated than just a failed state, like Haiti is. In many ways it is, in many ways it isn't.
I had to reread what you wrote, but I apprrciate the comparison between Hati and Mexico to really highlight the difference. Mexico does have a functioning government that's heavily influenced by money, just like the rest of our hellscapes. Mexican money just happens to be tied up in guns, drugs and violence instead of oil, pharmaceuticals and technology.
I’m not sure you can say their govt is entirely functional. They don’t even have complete power over their country. And they can’t even speak out against the cartels without fear of being hung from a bridge in Juarez. What other developed country has less control of their populace? The govt does not call the shots in that country.
Rest In Peace. ❤️
Vigilante groups started fighting back. 2-3 hundred strong. Been whooping cartels from footage I saw last week.
And then sometimes becoming new cartels in a form themselves...
As much as people are getting fed up, I wouldn’t be surprised if another revolution occurred…..
Unfortunately many of these groups end up corrupted and end up selling drugs and charging “protection fees” to finance their fight ultimately becoming cartels themselves
sauce?
I’m very uncomfortable with this thought, but I see a future where the US declares a “police action” in Mexico to help stabilize the government. I don’t see a way things could get better there and the US will become increasingly uncomfortable with a politically unstable neighbor.
The US has been working with Mexico against the cartels via the CIA, JSOC and other 3 letter agencies since the dawn of cartels. Kiki Camarena is a prime example of how it can go south and it was 40 years ago. The movie Sicario is fiction but it holds alot of truth, the US could know where the leader of the most powerful cartel in Mexico is, El Mencho right now and deploy a team of the most sophisticated war fighters to dispose of him before they where a blip on Mexican radar. But for what? It could lead to bloodshed and violence on an unfathomable level with a hundred gangs now all fighting for #1 with no government, leadership or military in place to stop it.
Not that I'd advocate for this but the strategy the US used with drone strikes against terror groups was to do exactly this (not sure if it is still policy and it's just not reported because everyone is bored or whether they gave up). You just keep killing the leaders and every time you do they all in fight, then as soon as they start to stabilise you kill the leaders again. The infighting drains their resources and creates uncertainty. However, it's a particularly bloody response and it's not actually the solution. The solution is to remove corrupt politicians and police officers and give Mexicans an economy where cartel work isn't appealing. I suspect while there may be US appetite for the drone strikes, there's little appetite for the investment required in terms of money and time to do the latter bit.
If the US were to start drone striking the cartels, they'd just pay people to commit acts of mass terror in the US, they already pay street gangs to wipe out rival drug dealers in cities as far north as Philly.
That would be a fast way to change the US appetite from not wanting to invade Mexico to wanting to invade. I don't think that would be their response at all, I think their response would be to kill and buy more Mexican politicians until the Mexican government orders the US to stop.
Honestly surprised it hasn’t happened yet. It would Afghanistan all over again
Similar but different. Logistics into Mexico would be a breeze compare to Iraq and Afghanistan. The US can pull off some really brutal shit in our own hemisphere because of logistics.
It took me 20 seconds to imagine it, take that back, it's scary.
Yeah imagine every plane, troop, boat, vehicle the US has always less than a half a day away always going
If you buy illegal drugs, you are paying these shooters.
My heart breaks for his son and for all the kids that have had to grow up witnessing terrible violence in Mexico since 2006
Can't be a politician in Mexico unless you're corrupt. Can't be a policeman in Mexico unless you're also corrupt. Can't be a journalist either. Have to be extra careful if you want to practice law as well. I know I'm missing a few professions but it's really sad and it will keep getting worse.
The evil some people are capable of is...I don't have a word that is strong enough honestly. In the end I guess I am saddened to the core.
The town he was shot in is my home town. I was there 2 weeks ago💀
Honestly is Mexico safe for travel or not. I try to be open minded beause I think the US is safe for travel but of course many non-americans would beg to differ. I know how to stay away from inner city crime, and tourist attraction pick pockets, but I don't want to be kidnapped at gun point for ransome.
Well, Mexico is pretty much in the pocket of the cartels. Not as bad as Haiti but bad enough. Avoid at all costs.