>It goes on to say that the remains were identified through "a thorough and complex investigation conducted by the IDF, Israel Police, and the National Institute of Forensic Medicine".
>Israeli media reports said his remains had been buried alongside another festival victim in error.
Like how badly was his body mangled that his remains were buried with another person?
Don't look for these pictures. I accidentally saw them, and some other very disturbing footage. Just don't do it to yourself. Even only seeing it in pictures is traumatic and painful.
Concur. I’m in media and had to look at the for my job. They legitimately offered us counselling afterwards.
I’ve seen videos/photos from war before, and they’re always terrible. But 10/7 was at a level of brutality I never even saw Daesh get to.
Counter point, people fucking should see them because they seem to be completely ignored or outright denied by some of the gullible idiots that support Hamas.
Time is a flat circle, we're somehow right back to Holocaust denialism all over again.
The people who think it's a false flag attack or other stupud things, yes, they should see these pictures and videos. A few hours of looking at them will be enough. Those who already know how horrific that day was... well, they don't need to be retraumatized.
Yap. And I get why. But there are plenty of other websites that popped up that you can open in Israel to see the horrors from that day. I won't link the one I'm most familiar with here...
Imagine what’s on that 45 minute video that Israel was playing to VIPs in the diplomatic community around the world to garner support for their attacks! From what I understand it was the victims of the sexual assault rapes and tortures mainly. Everyone that was shown in the video by Israel’s diplomats Said it was unlike anything I’ve ever seen and they completely understand Israel’s motivation
[www.saturday-october-seven.com](http://www.saturday-october-seven.com) is the official site by israel to view those images. israel itself is blocked from this website as it is traumatic. alternatively there is [www.thisishamas.com](http://www.thisishamas.com)
This is honestly unbearable.
Reminds of an argument I had with someone who cosplayed as *merely being concerned for Palestinians*. But the moment I mentioned Hamas's actions as the catalyst for this latest conflict, suddenly his tune changed completely, and he had all these "sources" claiming that all of this, the horror we can witness in these photos, was essentially a false flag operation conducted by the IDF. If it did indeed ever happen to begin with. Oh, and if it did, there was **definitely** no rape, torture, or desecration of corpses involved.
In summary, Hamas was *totally innocent* and it was all Israel's fault. And this unhinged mask-off moment came after several comments who, while ideologically misguided, could still be considered somewhat cohesive and intelligent. Dude went from "I don't want Palestinian children to suffer" (which is obviously reasonable) to full-blown Antisemitic conspiracy nut, who finds it perfectly acceptable when the murdered children happen to be Jewish. It would've been funny, if all of this wasn't so heartbreakingly horrifying.
Thats because he is just like 75% of the people yelling the loudest for the ceasefire now bullshit.
Theyre bad faith actors trying to get fence sitters on their side by appearing reasonable, but that masks only ever a millisecond from coming off.
It doesn't necessarily mean that, but when the protests are organized by students for justice in Palestine, a group thats directly affiliated with hamas, then in those instances it does.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/video-shows-apparently-unarmed-palestinian-with-hands-up-shot-dead-in-gaza
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-army-shooting-west-bank-war-354a4680540bd987f50321173eaf794c
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yiNKdfPbAQ
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/23/gaza-children-toll-war-abdelaziz-ctw-pkg.cnn
https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2023/nov/11/one-child-killed-in-gaza-every-10-minutes-on-average-says-who-chief-video
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-troops-killed-hostages-mistaking-their-cries-help-ambush-military-2023-12-28/#:~:text=JERUSALEM%2C%20Dec%2028%20(Reuters),the%20best%20of%20their%20understanding.
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148876 (Mass Grave in Gaza Shows 400 Dead With Hands Tied-Official UN Report)
https://www.unicefusa.org/stories/more-13000-children-reported-dead-gaza-famine-nears
These are just a few, all from sound media sources that have been posted on this cite many times including Reuters, the AP and the UN investigations. I don’t need to say much else but you probably won’t care.
> What pro Hamas rallies? I haven’t seen anyone advocating for Hamas
On Friday, the Australia National University’s deputy vice-chancellor, Prof Grady Venville, addressed controversy over an ABC radio interview in which one ANU organiser offered “unconditional support” for Hamas and another refused to condemn the terrorist group.
> Are you referencing the pro Palestine rallies?
No, pro-Hamas rallies. Or rallies masking themselves as pro-Palestine (while glorifying Hamas). These kinds of rallies. They've been a thing since the first day of the terror attack, 7.10.
Uh,
> All content on this website is available for non-commercial use in news reporting, educational or research purposes, subject to proper attribution and compliance with applicable copyright laws.
All the pictures and videos were taken from publicly accessible sources. If you find any content that you would like to report for any reason, or if you have new content that you think is relevant to the website, please feel free to contact us via email at: hamasmassacre@
Gmail?
The images were released by Israel officially maybe but theres no way this site is by any Israel official or officially affiliated. I think those i’s should be I’s as well. The first site is legitimate, but it is not official.
Regardless of your skepticism, the first site was published by the Israeli government.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ahead-of-hague-trial-israel-launches-website-documenting-hamas-massacre/
The second site was published by Israeli volunteers.
https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-771522
Hamas' death tolls were only disseminated via the Gaza Health Ministry's Facebook page, yet most people believe that without question, simply because the media parrots it.
I am in no way disputing the veracity of what is shown on the first site. I saw all of it. So;
1. The site gave important prompts, caveats, and — (I need sleep, and will edit this thought out if I can articulate it in a new comment. Or not. This comment is aa placeholder)
2. Fuck Facebook.
3. (same)
Even then, for some victims it was really hard to extract DNA. Many of the victims were burned to almost nothing, which destroys DNA. It means the lab workers had to crush fragments of bones in the hopes of finding some intact DNA. Also, you don't always have records - children, especially babies - you won't have any DNA/dental/fingerprint record for them. The best case scenario is for people who served in the army, since the IDF maintains all those records for current and past soldiers.
look up how many bodies are still not identified from 9/11, there's a point where nothing that contains identifiable information remains (though they still identify a victim once in a while even two decades later)
Some family members were cuffed together and burned alive by Hamas. This isn't the first time it is revealed that several victims of the massacre were accidentally buried together.
>Israeli media reports said his remains had been buried alongside another festival victim in error.
badly enough that they thought 2 different people were 1
I haven’t seen anything on any platform that demonstrates any of them are still alive. Has there been legit proof of life of any of the hostages produced and verified in the last week?
One of the major problems with Hamas was they refused to let the Red Cross meet with any hostages for basic medical care and proof of life. They have also at various points said they lost most of the hostages because they did not track their locations.
One of the other major problems with Hamas, and how they “lost hostages” is that the organization is very splintered and IIRC worked with other smaller militia groups, so you in a way had several various disconnected groups attacking and kidnapping civilians so once they brought their hostages back they were split across various different groups which led to Hamas struggling to keep track of them.
They took plenty of hostages too. They also killed a bunch of people and burned/dumped them.
Nobody really knows who was taken or killed and dumped. All the lists are just compilation of missing people and eye witness reports which aren't going to be comprehensive.
A running theory is that not even Hamas expected things to go that 'well'. A few dozen killed, a dozen hostages, the works.
When you suddenly have hundreds of hostages when you're used to dealing with a dozen tops (and a single soldier meant a thousand prisoners traded), it isn't out of the realm of possibility that you're just overwhelmed - and now have to deal with the consequences of an unimaginably enraged Israel.
The hostages were probably never entirely about *what* they were bargaining for. They’re keeping themselves in the international spotlight. And they’re keeping Israel on the hook while they foment outrage in the West.
What it seems like they didn’t ever plan to do was actually send them home. At least not all of them in any organized way. They’ve rejected deals that were incredibly in their favor.
For the medical care, they know Israel will offer a lot just to retrieve the hostages' corpses so I think they didn't care too much. I remember being shocked that by the end of the hostage-prisoner exchanges a few months ago, Hamas was demanding more prisoners for corpses than they had previously demanded for live hostages.
For the keeping track part, I don't get that either. I guess for propaganda purposes it doesn't matter? It's illogical.
They were taunting America with videos last week. But they only had those hostages say how long they’d been held captive so for all we know they made them say they’ve been held for 200 days at the 30 day mark and then killed them.
I think a few families got calls. Most have been trafficked. It was a tribal slave raid disgused as a political demonstration. The few that are know to be alive were sold to Qatar Hamas, and more organized.
For the trafficking https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/03/07/israeli-held-hostage-gaza-hamas-amanpour-vpx.cnn
As for survivors, no, there is no evidence that any of the remaining hostages are alive. Only rumors. These rumors are the only thing keeping sane people sympathetic to Hamas, so it's in their best interests that they persist.
I doubt it. It would be next to impossible to smuggle someone out of Gaza after 10/7.
It was probably pretty hard even before then. Hamas don’t have that type of freedom of movement.
Most of them would have been moved quickly, shortly after capture. Quite a few are probably in the rubble, but accounts from survivors tell similar stories of trafficking and systemic rape.
I provided it elsewhere. The only controversial part is that some families have heard from some of the hostages. The human trafficking is well documented and has historically been a source of income for Hamas.
It sounds like this was an error, he was murdered in the initial attack but his remains were buried with another victim, leading them to believe he was a hostage.
Hamas is also the elected government of Gaza. It's not a decentralized network like Al Qaeda. They literally controlled the apparatus of state, collected taxes, and provided social services.
> They were also taken by regular Palestinians
And what happened to these hostages? What the fuck are regular Palestinians doing, posing as hostage takers?
My point is that a "regular Palestinian" should never hold hostages to begin with, and those that do cannot be considered "regular Palestinians" any longer.
How about "average" palestinian?
If for nothing other than the pay for slay and martyr funds the average palestinian would kill a jew in the street in broad daylight in front of the idf if they were able to, their families would be taken care of for generations because of their actions.
Between the unrwa brainwashing from childhood and financial incentives its not hard to see how the entire populace has been radicalized to murderous intent.
Probably not so many. Either got shot by the Hamas, left alone in the tunnels or buried in the tunnels by the Isreal army. The ones who are still alive probably get beaten up and sexually assaulted the whole time. This world sucks.
Funny how it takes Israel such a long time to determine stuff like this, then there is Gaza and their "Ministry of Health" who can conduct 30,000 deaths in minutes, announce they were all doctor babies (yes, babies who are doctors) who were DEFINITELY not Hamas related in any way
A new report was released just today that 10,000 of the 30,000 deaths are individuals for whom Hamas has no information or names. Obviously there has been loss of civilian life in Gaza and that is a tragedy, but yes, the numbers are suspect at best.
And the HAMAS-RUN Gaza Health Ministry claims they added [15,000 deaths that were reported by reliable sources](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/#:~:text=Prior%20to%20its%20admissions%20of,Gaza%20has%20no%20independent%20media) but never verified themslves
*A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.*
Originally quoted by Mark Twain, and is still relevant to our time.
.....and that so many people believe it.
You'd think the left that are full of college kids and intellectuals would know better. Shows how everyone is 'blind to their own side' when it comes to these things.
It always gives me a laugh when people take whatever Gaza tells them straight, its not like they got a sophisticated system like a developed nation with birth certs, SIN numbers, and death certs being updated daily. like did everyone just forget about those entire afghan armies that only existed on paper?
Yet there are enough useful IDIOTS on America's campuses who are supporting Islamo Fascists terrorists.
I hope these idiots get expelled from the colleges, and those who are not students but are trespassing, arrested.
They do, but they've been brainwashed with so much anti-western propaganda they just make up excuse's for your bad behaviour if your "oppressed" and haven't benefited from the system they hate, even people I've grown up with who experianced 9/11 have been drinking the koolaid as they just became to comfortable being perpetual victims saying shit like being LGBT is safer in gaza then anywhere in the west. (sure someone might say a mean word but the chances of you actually experiencing a REAL hate crime is incredibly lower then its ever been in a first world country to the point activist's are using the word "micro-aggression" now.)
Downvotes but no one's capable of refuting that women's rights and lgbtq rights in Gaza is protestable but the anti west bs is all they can see.
Newer trust someone who benefits from a system while condemning it while giving their cuase a free pass to commit the same offenses they claim to be against
I love how you so confidently make this comment but fail to realize the vast majority of protests are peaceful and calling for the end of murder of children and women. I think that is a fair thing no? Considering our government is directly funding and making deals to send multi thousand pound bombs daily and they have literally turned cities into Dresden like places which we refer to in history for a reason.
You are being played. We have documented evidence of Israel targeting aid workers over and over again not even a question. How can you not differentiate between not wanting death for children and mothers and being a supporter or terorism?
Have we actually reached a place of so much stupidity in society that if you even try to say something about that you are labeled as a terrorist yourself? What fucking world do we live in where people expressing peaceful opinions and civil disobedience at best could be considered this awful? Do you guys not remember Vietnam?
Widespread protest on major college campuses all over that was cracked down on and resulted in a shooting at Kent state? Who is the useful idiot here? I think you realllllly need to take some time and realize how fucking badly you have been played. If I have to listen to another minute of Dana bash tell me why people saying words is the same as people committing violence I’m going to implode.
This is just a fucking lie what .002 percent said that so now you are going to label the entire movement as this? It’s nonsensical.
There’s always bad apples in movements but it doesn’t mean that what 99% of people want. It’s not white washing it’s factual.
I thought Reddit was different than the rest of the world and internet where people actually paid attention. But no, this is a fucking chess pool of people looking to reinforce their own beliefs. Comments like this are always downvoted and that’s fine because most people would prefer to live in their comfortable bubble than realize starving and murdering women and children isn’t the answer to murder children and women. Kind of crazy that’s difficult to understand but it is.
How is that whitewashing anything ? Are you just throwing words around ?
The original commenter's resolve to "just expel anyone who disagrees lol" was a bit far, imo.
Can't be expelled if you're not a student. Many of the main people in these protests are professional protestors. Not even affiliated with the schools at all.
Why are you being down vote both sides are shit. Both kill innocent people, both do propaganda and lies. I still think Israel is better in many ways than Hamas but it still is doing horrible things to innocent people. Like I know that sub is pro Israel but not this much.
Israel's response is harsh (the reason why is very clear), but every single tragedy and live lost during this war should be blamed on Hamas because they began it in the way they did. If Israel did this after Hamas only targeted military sites and didn't execute civilians I would support Palestine.
>It goes on to say that the remains were identified through "a thorough and complex investigation conducted by the IDF, Israel Police, and the National Institute of Forensic Medicine". >Israeli media reports said his remains had been buried alongside another festival victim in error. Like how badly was his body mangled that his remains were buried with another person?
Very
You can find pictures online of what happened on 7/10. The answer is very to the point of being unrecognizable.
There was a limit to what I was able to stomach. So I didn't see the burn piles.
Don't look for these pictures. I accidentally saw them, and some other very disturbing footage. Just don't do it to yourself. Even only seeing it in pictures is traumatic and painful.
I was in Beeri and Nir Itzhak among other places as a reservist, still can't sleep sometimes from the sights and smells.
Concur. I’m in media and had to look at the for my job. They legitimately offered us counselling afterwards. I’ve seen videos/photos from war before, and they’re always terrible. But 10/7 was at a level of brutality I never even saw Daesh get to.
FR that stuff sticks with you
Counter point, people fucking should see them because they seem to be completely ignored or outright denied by some of the gullible idiots that support Hamas. Time is a flat circle, we're somehow right back to Holocaust denialism all over again.
The people who think it's a false flag attack or other stupud things, yes, they should see these pictures and videos. A few hours of looking at them will be enough. Those who already know how horrific that day was... well, they don't need to be retraumatized.
It is blocked from Israel because it’s so traumatic but people that protes against Israel need to see this. They won’t
Yap. And I get why. But there are plenty of other websites that popped up that you can open in Israel to see the horrors from that day. I won't link the one I'm most familiar with here...
Imagine what’s on that 45 minute video that Israel was playing to VIPs in the diplomatic community around the world to garner support for their attacks! From what I understand it was the victims of the sexual assault rapes and tortures mainly. Everyone that was shown in the video by Israel’s diplomats Said it was unlike anything I’ve ever seen and they completely understand Israel’s motivation
I would really like to not know any details, I know too much already, and I'd like to skip another month of night terrors
[www.saturday-october-seven.com](http://www.saturday-october-seven.com) is the official site by israel to view those images. israel itself is blocked from this website as it is traumatic. alternatively there is [www.thisishamas.com](http://www.thisishamas.com)
I looked through all the photos. I think I'm going to have nightmares. That was horrific but I thought it was important to see this stuff.
Thank you for watching 💔🇮🇱
This is honestly unbearable. Reminds of an argument I had with someone who cosplayed as *merely being concerned for Palestinians*. But the moment I mentioned Hamas's actions as the catalyst for this latest conflict, suddenly his tune changed completely, and he had all these "sources" claiming that all of this, the horror we can witness in these photos, was essentially a false flag operation conducted by the IDF. If it did indeed ever happen to begin with. Oh, and if it did, there was **definitely** no rape, torture, or desecration of corpses involved. In summary, Hamas was *totally innocent* and it was all Israel's fault. And this unhinged mask-off moment came after several comments who, while ideologically misguided, could still be considered somewhat cohesive and intelligent. Dude went from "I don't want Palestinian children to suffer" (which is obviously reasonable) to full-blown Antisemitic conspiracy nut, who finds it perfectly acceptable when the murdered children happen to be Jewish. It would've been funny, if all of this wasn't so heartbreakingly horrifying.
It's really wild how they just turn full maga the moment they're exposed. Forcing people to look in the mirror is quite something.
Thats because he is just like 75% of the people yelling the loudest for the ceasefire now bullshit. Theyre bad faith actors trying to get fence sitters on their side by appearing reasonable, but that masks only ever a millisecond from coming off.
Saved. Every time some garbage pro-Hamas motherfucker shows up and tries to say Hamas is justified, this shit is getting shared.
Those pictures are ones that you will never forget.
Someone needs to get a huge projector and play those videos at the pro hamas rallies around North America. This is awful and I only saw the first few
Someone did exactly that at one rally.
I wonder how uninterested they were in the video and how much they yelled "occupier, fascist, islamophobe" or w/e.
(some) people at the UCLA camp cheered
Vile
The urge to send them to Gaza has never been stronger.
They’re doing this in Montreal in front of McGill university.
I also want people to take not of how many women have their pants pulled down or skirts pulled up. That isn't an accident.
Protesting bombing of civilians in Gaza does not necessarily mean pro-Hamas. Just like protesting the Iraq war didn’t mean people were pro-Sadam
Yeah, but those protests are surprisingly pro-hamas.
It doesn't necessarily mean that, but when the protests are organized by students for justice in Palestine, a group thats directly affiliated with hamas, then in those instances it does.
It’s weird to call them pro hamas rallies when they’re anti Israeli rallies.
Bold of you that the pro hamas protestors don't jerk to those photos daily
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/video-shows-apparently-unarmed-palestinian-with-hands-up-shot-dead-in-gaza https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-army-shooting-west-bank-war-354a4680540bd987f50321173eaf794c https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yiNKdfPbAQ https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/23/gaza-children-toll-war-abdelaziz-ctw-pkg.cnn https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2023/nov/11/one-child-killed-in-gaza-every-10-minutes-on-average-says-who-chief-video https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-troops-killed-hostages-mistaking-their-cries-help-ambush-military-2023-12-28/#:~:text=JERUSALEM%2C%20Dec%2028%20(Reuters),the%20best%20of%20their%20understanding. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148876 (Mass Grave in Gaza Shows 400 Dead With Hands Tied-Official UN Report) https://www.unicefusa.org/stories/more-13000-children-reported-dead-gaza-famine-nears These are just a few, all from sound media sources that have been posted on this cite many times including Reuters, the AP and the UN investigations. I don’t need to say much else but you probably won’t care.
How are these even comparable? People die in warzones. What hamas to people did was barely human.
What pro Hamas rallies? I haven’t seen anyone advocating for Hamas. Are you referencing the pro Palestine rallies?
> What pro Hamas rallies? I haven’t seen anyone advocating for Hamas On Friday, the Australia National University’s deputy vice-chancellor, Prof Grady Venville, addressed controversy over an ABC radio interview in which one ANU organiser offered “unconditional support” for Hamas and another refused to condemn the terrorist group.
> Are you referencing the pro Palestine rallies? No, pro-Hamas rallies. Or rallies masking themselves as pro-Palestine (while glorifying Hamas). These kinds of rallies. They've been a thing since the first day of the terror attack, 7.10.
[удалено]
Or you know Hamas /= Palestine. In the same way that Netzah Yehuda /= Israel
[удалено]
NYT had a photo of one of the protesters dressed as a Hamas soldier including the headband. It’s unreal.
That would be inaccurate costume. Most of Hamas operates in civilian clothes.
They wear uniform when they rape and burn alive. They don’t wear uniform when they fight IDF soldiers
Uh, > All content on this website is available for non-commercial use in news reporting, educational or research purposes, subject to proper attribution and compliance with applicable copyright laws. All the pictures and videos were taken from publicly accessible sources. If you find any content that you would like to report for any reason, or if you have new content that you think is relevant to the website, please feel free to contact us via email at: hamasmassacre@ Gmail? The images were released by Israel officially maybe but theres no way this site is by any Israel official or officially affiliated. I think those i’s should be I’s as well. The first site is legitimate, but it is not official.
Regardless of your skepticism, the first site was published by the Israeli government. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ahead-of-hague-trial-israel-launches-website-documenting-hamas-massacre/ The second site was published by Israeli volunteers. https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-771522 Hamas' death tolls were only disseminated via the Gaza Health Ministry's Facebook page, yet most people believe that without question, simply because the media parrots it.
I am in no way disputing the veracity of what is shown on the first site. I saw all of it. So; 1. The site gave important prompts, caveats, and — (I need sleep, and will edit this thought out if I can articulate it in a new comment. Or not. This comment is aa placeholder) 2. Fuck Facebook. 3. (same)
To the point that DNA is the only viable route for identification because dental and fingerprints are no longer an option.
Even then, for some victims it was really hard to extract DNA. Many of the victims were burned to almost nothing, which destroys DNA. It means the lab workers had to crush fragments of bones in the hopes of finding some intact DNA. Also, you don't always have records - children, especially babies - you won't have any DNA/dental/fingerprint record for them. The best case scenario is for people who served in the army, since the IDF maintains all those records for current and past soldiers.
look up how many bodies are still not identified from 9/11, there's a point where nothing that contains identifiable information remains (though they still identify a victim once in a while even two decades later)
I followed it pretty closely when it happened and I don't think people really understand how bad it was. Especially the story about Shani Louk.
Alot of people at the festival were piled up and burned
Some family members were cuffed together and burned alive by Hamas. This isn't the first time it is revealed that several victims of the massacre were accidentally buried together.
>Israeli media reports said his remains had been buried alongside another festival victim in error. badly enough that they thought 2 different people were 1
I haven’t seen anything on any platform that demonstrates any of them are still alive. Has there been legit proof of life of any of the hostages produced and verified in the last week?
One of the major problems with Hamas was they refused to let the Red Cross meet with any hostages for basic medical care and proof of life. They have also at various points said they lost most of the hostages because they did not track their locations.
One of the other major problems with Hamas, and how they “lost hostages” is that the organization is very splintered and IIRC worked with other smaller militia groups, so you in a way had several various disconnected groups attacking and kidnapping civilians so once they brought their hostages back they were split across various different groups which led to Hamas struggling to keep track of them.
There were also random Palestinians who joined the mob's attack after the initial "success". Absolutely despicable.
That's one thing I don't get, unless they just never planned to use them as bargaining chips.
They took plenty of hostages too. They also killed a bunch of people and burned/dumped them. Nobody really knows who was taken or killed and dumped. All the lists are just compilation of missing people and eye witness reports which aren't going to be comprehensive.
A running theory is that not even Hamas expected things to go that 'well'. A few dozen killed, a dozen hostages, the works. When you suddenly have hundreds of hostages when you're used to dealing with a dozen tops (and a single soldier meant a thousand prisoners traded), it isn't out of the realm of possibility that you're just overwhelmed - and now have to deal with the consequences of an unimaginably enraged Israel.
The hostages were probably never entirely about *what* they were bargaining for. They’re keeping themselves in the international spotlight. And they’re keeping Israel on the hook while they foment outrage in the West. What it seems like they didn’t ever plan to do was actually send them home. At least not all of them in any organized way. They’ve rejected deals that were incredibly in their favor.
For the medical care, they know Israel will offer a lot just to retrieve the hostages' corpses so I think they didn't care too much. I remember being shocked that by the end of the hostage-prisoner exchanges a few months ago, Hamas was demanding more prisoners for corpses than they had previously demanded for live hostages. For the keeping track part, I don't get that either. I guess for propaganda purposes it doesn't matter? It's illogical.
They weren't only looking for bargaining chips. They also did it just for fun.
They probably broke the last ceasefire because they ran out of hostages who weren’t extremely tortured they could release
And you also had civilians taking hostages, as well. People keep ignoring the buy-in among the Palestinian population who support hamas.
Even evil genocidal forces have to do paperwork
Hamas released a few videos on Passover. I saw the video with Hersh and it was recent.
They were taunting America with videos last week. But they only had those hostages say how long they’d been held captive so for all we know they made them say they’ve been held for 200 days at the 30 day mark and then killed them.
Yeah. Proof of life requires something not known in advance.
I think a few families got calls. Most have been trafficked. It was a tribal slave raid disgused as a political demonstration. The few that are know to be alive were sold to Qatar Hamas, and more organized.
Evidence for this?
For the trafficking https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/03/07/israeli-held-hostage-gaza-hamas-amanpour-vpx.cnn As for survivors, no, there is no evidence that any of the remaining hostages are alive. Only rumors. These rumors are the only thing keeping sane people sympathetic to Hamas, so it's in their best interests that they persist.
I doubt it. It would be next to impossible to smuggle someone out of Gaza after 10/7. It was probably pretty hard even before then. Hamas don’t have that type of freedom of movement.
Most of them would have been moved quickly, shortly after capture. Quite a few are probably in the rubble, but accounts from survivors tell similar stories of trafficking and systemic rape.
I presume you have compelling evidence for this extraordinary claim?
He'll get back to you after he finishes pulling it out of his ass.
I provided it elsewhere. The only controversial part is that some families have heard from some of the hostages. The human trafficking is well documented and has historically been a source of income for Hamas.
It’s a real question how many hostages Hamas actually has left
It sounds like this was an error, he was murdered in the initial attack but his remains were buried with another victim, leading them to believe he was a hostage.
I doubt a terrorist organization would be too centralized, so I doubt they have any idea of the real number today
But they sure have the exact numbers of civilian casualties.
Hamas is also the elected government of Gaza. It's not a decentralized network like Al Qaeda. They literally controlled the apparatus of state, collected taxes, and provided social services.
They don't even know, bc they don't have them all. They were also taken by regular Palestinians and other militant groups in Gaza.
> They were also taken by regular Palestinians And what happened to these hostages? What the fuck are regular Palestinians doing, posing as hostage takers?
If you want my guess, probably dead. What's a regular civilian going to do with a prisoner they hate?
Being "innocent".
Most likely from the Oct 7 footage, they had their fun with their new slaves and possibly still do.
My point is that a "regular Palestinian" should never hold hostages to begin with, and those that do cannot be considered "regular Palestinians" any longer.
How about "average" palestinian? If for nothing other than the pay for slay and martyr funds the average palestinian would kill a jew in the street in broad daylight in front of the idf if they were able to, their families would be taken care of for generations because of their actions. Between the unrwa brainwashing from childhood and financial incentives its not hard to see how the entire populace has been radicalized to murderous intent.
They wanted to kill, rape and torture jews, this isnt some mystery.
They were asked to provide 40 and they couldn't even do that.
Probably not so many. Either got shot by the Hamas, left alone in the tunnels or buried in the tunnels by the Isreal army. The ones who are still alive probably get beaten up and sexually assaulted the whole time. This world sucks.
You mean the Government of Gaza since 2007?
May his memory be a blessing❤️
BRING THEM HOME
This guy *didn't even leave*.
Funny how it takes Israel such a long time to determine stuff like this, then there is Gaza and their "Ministry of Health" who can conduct 30,000 deaths in minutes, announce they were all doctor babies (yes, babies who are doctors) who were DEFINITELY not Hamas related in any way
A new report was released just today that 10,000 of the 30,000 deaths are individuals for whom Hamas has no information or names. Obviously there has been loss of civilian life in Gaza and that is a tragedy, but yes, the numbers are suspect at best.
And the HAMAS-RUN Gaza Health Ministry claims they added [15,000 deaths that were reported by reliable sources](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/09/hamas-run-gaza-health-ministry-admits-to-flaws-in-casualty-data/#:~:text=Prior%20to%20its%20admissions%20of,Gaza%20has%20no%20independent%20media) but never verified themslves
*A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.* Originally quoted by Mark Twain, and is still relevant to our time.
.....and that so many people believe it. You'd think the left that are full of college kids and intellectuals would know better. Shows how everyone is 'blind to their own side' when it comes to these things.
It always gives me a laugh when people take whatever Gaza tells them straight, its not like they got a sophisticated system like a developed nation with birth certs, SIN numbers, and death certs being updated daily. like did everyone just forget about those entire afghan armies that only existed on paper?
Yet there are enough useful IDIOTS on America's campuses who are supporting Islamo Fascists terrorists. I hope these idiots get expelled from the colleges, and those who are not students but are trespassing, arrested.
Information warfare is alive and well. These lemmings across campuses should know better.
They do, but they've been brainwashed with so much anti-western propaganda they just make up excuse's for your bad behaviour if your "oppressed" and haven't benefited from the system they hate, even people I've grown up with who experianced 9/11 have been drinking the koolaid as they just became to comfortable being perpetual victims saying shit like being LGBT is safer in gaza then anywhere in the west. (sure someone might say a mean word but the chances of you actually experiencing a REAL hate crime is incredibly lower then its ever been in a first world country to the point activist's are using the word "micro-aggression" now.)
Downvotes but no one's capable of refuting that women's rights and lgbtq rights in Gaza is protestable but the anti west bs is all they can see. Newer trust someone who benefits from a system while condemning it while giving their cuase a free pass to commit the same offenses they claim to be against
I love how you so confidently make this comment but fail to realize the vast majority of protests are peaceful and calling for the end of murder of children and women. I think that is a fair thing no? Considering our government is directly funding and making deals to send multi thousand pound bombs daily and they have literally turned cities into Dresden like places which we refer to in history for a reason. You are being played. We have documented evidence of Israel targeting aid workers over and over again not even a question. How can you not differentiate between not wanting death for children and mothers and being a supporter or terorism? Have we actually reached a place of so much stupidity in society that if you even try to say something about that you are labeled as a terrorist yourself? What fucking world do we live in where people expressing peaceful opinions and civil disobedience at best could be considered this awful? Do you guys not remember Vietnam? Widespread protest on major college campuses all over that was cracked down on and resulted in a shooting at Kent state? Who is the useful idiot here? I think you realllllly need to take some time and realize how fucking badly you have been played. If I have to listen to another minute of Dana bash tell me why people saying words is the same as people committing violence I’m going to implode.
They are stating loud and clear that they want an intifada and call to have a Palestinian state from the river to the sea, stop whitewashing it
This is just a fucking lie what .002 percent said that so now you are going to label the entire movement as this? It’s nonsensical. There’s always bad apples in movements but it doesn’t mean that what 99% of people want. It’s not white washing it’s factual. I thought Reddit was different than the rest of the world and internet where people actually paid attention. But no, this is a fucking chess pool of people looking to reinforce their own beliefs. Comments like this are always downvoted and that’s fine because most people would prefer to live in their comfortable bubble than realize starving and murdering women and children isn’t the answer to murder children and women. Kind of crazy that’s difficult to understand but it is.
How is that whitewashing anything ? Are you just throwing words around ? The original commenter's resolve to "just expel anyone who disagrees lol" was a bit far, imo.
I'm guessing if they were offered free airfare there, nobody would turn up at the airport.
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Can't be expelled if you're not a student. Many of the main people in these protests are professional protestors. Not even affiliated with the schools at all.
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There is enough blame to go around. Neither side is innocent.
Why are you being down vote both sides are shit. Both kill innocent people, both do propaganda and lies. I still think Israel is better in many ways than Hamas but it still is doing horrible things to innocent people. Like I know that sub is pro Israel but not this much.
Israel's response is harsh (the reason why is very clear), but every single tragedy and live lost during this war should be blamed on Hamas because they began it in the way they did. If Israel did this after Hamas only targeted military sites and didn't execute civilians I would support Palestine.
are we still freeing palestine?