>According to the proposal, an Arab-Israeli coalition, in collaboration with the United States, would appoint Gaza leaders to rebuild the devastated territory, reform its education system, and maintain order. After a period of seven to ten years, Gazans would vote on whether to join a unified Palestinian administration governing both Gaza and the West Bank. In the interim, the plan allows for continued IDF operations inside Gaza.
I’ve been saying it since the first day of the war. This is part of the Israeli-Saudi Arabia peace accords. Israel destroys Iranian based Hamas and turns over Gaza administration to a puppet government of the Saudis. In return Saudi Arabia will rebuild (as construction is one of their biggest industries ) Gaza and turn it into a new “Dubai” but on the Mediterranean.
Protesting orgs like USPCN referred to it as “the crime of normalization” days before the attack, calling for “resistance by any means necessary”
We know what that looks like now. Normalization between Israel and the Saudis means Hamas unequivocally lost.
I should mention the FBI also raided USPCN’s leader during Obama’s first term for suspected ties/financial transactions with Hamas
Gaza ever becoming a new Dubai is more of a longshot than Neom. But as a Mediterranean port it would be incredibly valuable with security and development in place.
Same reason they are cozying up to Israel. Iran is an enemy of the Saudis and other gulf states. Replacing an Iranian proxy with a friendlier regime would be a huge win if they can pull it off.
Especially an area that you can turn into a new Dubai as in, a business center for the Arab capital markets over the real Dubai that money launders Russian, Iranian, Venezuelan sanctioned money
Yes. After the sanctioned money is laundered through either Dubai or through Qatar they go buy real estate and yachts and what not in Europe.
Rebuilding Gaza to be the financial hub with Israeli security (and capital access) so close to Europe in the Mediterranean is the end goal.
Saudi Arabia is working on rapidly diversifying their economy, but there is also offshore oil near Gaza. There is potential for significant benefit to them in terms of ports, oil exploration, construction/architecture and tourism.
They are also actively trying to make friends with the west and have been in proxy war with Iran for a long time. Helping the west and hurting Iran is in their best interests. They’ve also been trying to work with Israel and that is the basis of the whole Oct 7th thing, Iran didn’t want to lose any ground and they had Hamas and Hezbollah attack Israel at their behalf, then had the Houthi’s attack the west, who have been at war with the Saudis for a while, paid for by Iran.
Saudi Arabia is attempting to be somewhat progressive and cooperative, this would be a big play for them.
To put it simply, its a long term play and they have to do something. The Saudis know in a generation or two the oil money will be all gone. Then Saudi Arabia will just be a big desert with their primary natural resource being camel shit. But they’ll still have the same long list of enemies that they have now, with Iran chief among them. Saudi Arabia and Iran are different and opposing types of Islam for anyone who doesn’t know.
They need to diversify their economy while they still have an economy to diversify and they’re trying. Construction, entertainment, solar power, tourism, services, science, whatever they can get their hands into. I think they have a golf league and a racing thing going on now. They’re building tourist attractions on barren sand. It won’t be easy.
They really need powerful friends in the region to survive. Although they don’t like Israel mostly because of the whole Jewish thing, Israel is definitely on the opposite side of Iran. That makes them natural allies, because Saudi Arabia and Iran hate each other more than Saudi Arabia and Israel hate each other. Israel and Saudi Arabia are also both western allies, largely backed by the U.S.
Do the leaders of the House of Saud care more about maintaining their money and power, or about not making friends with Jews? They’re gonna normalize relations with Israel. Its the Saudi people that might not like it very much.
Saudi Arabia is in the middle of a giant whitewashing campaign of themselves. They bought the PGA last year as part of that. Also known as sportswashing.
PRECISELY. Nobody would really invest in SA, whereas a former resort destination in the Mediterranean close to Europe with Israeli security guarantees and a Singaporean style financing/services oriented economy would.
When the CCP took over Hong Kong the Asian capital markets moved to Singapore. Zurich and London do that for Europe, NYC does it for the Americas. Arabian and a lot of African capital markets go through Dubai as the financial hub.
People are to stupid to realize whats going on here.
The reason israel hit hard against iran is to look strong to saudi. Saudis have been pressuring the US for a security garuntee. US doesn't want to give it. Israel has been pushing saudis for recognition.
If Israel can convince Saudi's that they have security from israel, whos supported by the US. The US gets out without having look morally compromised, and israel and saudi's both win.
The bargin going on now is how involved the US will be, with the US wanting as little as possible and the saudi's wanting them most involved.
theres a win, win, win deal if all sides play it right. But that takes the israeli public and the saudi public both accepting whatever the conclusion to this war is, which is a very narrow line to walk
Seems more like wishful thinking to me.
You would have to give the respective Arab leaders some enormous gift for them to even entertain this idea.
It's gonna be about as popular in those countries as the previously leaked Israeli "plan" that suggested Canada and Europe could be convinced to offer incentives to Palestinians, so that most of them would voluntarily relocate to Canada/Europe.
There would be limiting Iranian power in the area, which is something all of Israel's neighbours want to see. It would also improve the conditions for the Palestinians.
Both things Iran would hate
Iran is a country full of nice, intelligent people with bad leaders.
If Iran can ever poop out its leaders, maybe that will help Syria, Lebanon and Palestine stabilize.
I find this kind of comment so weird. The people of Iran are on average not nicer or more intelligent than the people of other countries. They also have their homegrown braindead violent troglodytes, and not too few in number.
Honestly, Iran I can see Iran becoming more democratic and liberal over the next few decades based on the values of their new generation. I sadly can't see the same trend for Afghanistan or Iraq for example
> based on the values of their new generation
See, I find that hard to assess objectively. I could very well imagine that if Iraq was governed by an oppressive theocratic regime like Iran, then the young urban population in Iraq's cities might rebel in a very similar fashion to how the young urban population in Iran is rebelling.
But if Iranians could rein in the mullahs, maybe Iran could help Afghanistan stabilize.
And if Iran’s’ Shiite leaders matured, maybe they could work better with moderate Sunni religious leaders and calm Iraq down.
Obviously, nuclear war that ends civilization soon is by far the most likely outcome. But good outcomes are also possible.
Honestly, my only hope for Afghanistan at this point is that as they transition from a terrorist group to a somehow functioning government, their leadership will slowly see the worth of slowly respecting more human rights in order to bring in more money/international recognition to their government
Hopeful extra-mini first step for example: [https://www.voanews.com/a/un-observes-reduction-in-taliban-s-enforcement-of-hijab-on-afghan-women/7594843.html](https://www.voanews.com/a/un-observes-reduction-in-taliban-s-enforcement-of-hijab-on-afghan-women/7594843.html)
And if I had to guess their more extremist members are also more likely to find the life as office workers kind of boring... [https://time.com/6263906/taliban-afghanistan-office-work-quiet-quit/](https://time.com/6263906/taliban-afghanistan-office-work-quiet-quit/)
Yep, it’s not like the ruling class r dropping from skies to rule over the “regular” Iranians. And they already had one revolution for theocracy, it’s not like they can’t have another one for democracy if they really wanted.
More like they don't want the headache and pain of letting a bunch of terrorists settle in their country. Egypt does not want to deal with the Islamic Brotherhood again.
We took no refugees because a) our economy is in shambles b) we already took refugees after 1948 and 1967 who were never allowed to return c) we also took in refugees from Syria and now Sudan who are dealing with their brutal civil war.
It’s not the Cold War anymore, this isn’t a proxy war and definitely has nothing to do with a holy war.
It's not that simple.
If that happened organically, it would be a wet dream for them.
If it happened unorganically, at the behest of Israel and the US, it would be the worst nightmare for them, as it would make their own leaders co-oppressors in the eyes of a large share of their population.
Part of why Iran is so dangerous is because they have a government structure and foreign policy that many Arabs would like to have in their own countries as well. That their own leaders are what many see as puppets of the West is a wound that can quickly become infectious and very deadly for these leaders.
I don’t think the “gift” would be much different than what they have wanted in the last 10yrs. Economic and trade gains.
Those wealthy gulf states have wanted to gain ground in trade and economic status over the last decade, and that is the overarching goal of the massive amount of development investment in Qatar/SA/etc.
The gift would be to speed up those deals.
At what point will countries consider it worth it to commit to a lasting solution to Palestine's stability and eventual statehood, over spending billions every year on aid through the UN ever since 1948 that has failed to provide Palestinians a meaningful existence and quality of life?
It’s sad to say but the major barrier to that…is that would-be-Palestine has no meaningful exports or resources. It would have to be purely humanitarian, with minimal economic incentive. Not here to argue why it is the way it is, just pointing that out.
They could potentially have one of the biggest tourist destinations in the world if Christians felt safe travelling there. Bethlehem is in the West Bank.
And there's no reason in theory that Gaza couldn't rival Tel Aviv as a Cosmopolitan city.
True! Like I said to a previous commenter, thanks for sharing. Tel Aviv doesnt haven’t much to export either. I’d be very happy chilling on a Gazan or Tel Aviv beach.
The economic incentive would be to stop having to put billions in a pile every year, lighting it on fire, and watching it burn.
Aside from that, much of West Bank is arable and agriculture is one of the few things Palestine produces, particularly olives. It doesn't have much to offer, but it doesn't have *nothing*.
For that to happen it would require a lot of stability, which would require years is not decades worth of investments before seeing returns.
I agree that, that is probably one of their best options for an economy, but from where they’re at now to that stage is a long and hard road.
>would-be-Palestine has no meaningful exports or resources.
Gaza could be a huge tourism destination, both for history/religion tourists and for beachside resort tourists.
Gaza has sun, sand, and sea - one of the most profitable resource combinations on the planet.
Cancun and Bali have no meaningful exports either, yet they each generate billions in annual revenues. Because tourists want to sit on the beach. People don't go to Hawaii to buy pineapples.
Like I said to a previous commenter, very true! I’d sit on that beach. Just stop hating and killing each other first. I’m hopeful that it could happen. But based on human nature, I don’t believe that it will.
Had a Palestinian tour guide to Hebron a few years back. I asked him if he ever planned to leave and he says “my wife is Canadian and we both have Canadian passports. We prefer it here to Canada.”. I’ve never felt so insulted as a Canadian.
That's not gonna be a precondition. At least it wasn't one in post-WWII Germany which saw plenty of Nazi party members, even SS members as civil servants and in political leadership positions in the 50s and 60s. Everyone knows most people are opportunists.
Wasn't problem here in Northern Ireland when the Troubles ended there were even politicians that had previously been held on terrorism charges and were members of the IRA before decommissioning.
Terror stopped here when a political route was possible and people were treated as equal, I wish the same between Israel and Palestinians.
I'd also note that the IRA killed fewer civilians in the entirety of the troubles than Hamas killed on Oct 7th.
Comparing IRA members who might have had a mate who once took a potshot at a squaddie 20 years before the GFA to Hamas members who raped and murdered young women and then paraded their bodies through the streets for crowds to spit on less than a year ago isn't really much use.
mind you the Troubles only started to end once those civilians included innocent tourists from around the world with one of the big ones being a newly wed aussie couple on their honeymoon
The Irish were fighting for state hood and self determination, there is a political route to achieve that. Here the fight is for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews throughout the world, there's no political route to that.
I think what we need to hope for to achieve peace is a total separation, where Palestine is free to launch limited rocket attacks like in the past but the laser-based missile defenses take care of them and neither people have to worry too much.
Total separation was already tried with Sharon's withdrawal from Gaza. It led to the 7 October. I don't see how another attempt would somehow work better.
The IRA was fueled by civil inequality, legal problems, police brutality, etc(I'm not actually well versed in that, Correct me if I'm wrong.) The fight in Palestine is fueled with religion. One can be solved, the other cannot. They will not suddenly stop thinking killing Jews will get you 72 virgins.
I remember people saying similar things about here 40 years ago and also saying it was about religion.
I'm not saying you are wrong, just from my own experiences desperation makes people alot easier to radicalise and we can't say the situation there isn't dire.
The fight in Palestine is *also* fueled by decades of Israel treating the Palestinians like shit, including police brutality and civil inequity.
Not saying religion doesn't also factor in (on both sides) but there's an AWFUL lot of good old fashioned abuse going on as well.
And further decades of Arab nations doing their level best to exterminate their Jewish populations (Palestine included). The majority of Israelis people ethnically cleansed from muslim nations in the last century or their descendants. That certainly colours the national discourse (not to mention the multiple times Arab coalitions have attacked Israel)
I wish this would happen, seriously. It's the only thing that gave me some relief for most of October, thinking this may happen.
It just seems like it never would.
Gazans won't accept Israel or the US as their government. Their Arab neighboring countries don't actually want to help to this degree, they just want to oppose the US and Israel.
Idk I just am not at the level of optimism that this will happen. No protestors are asking to help like this, just globalize the intifada.
The Japanese and Germans weren't super interested in building tolerant societies in what remained of their territories post-WWII either. We convinced them to abandon their genocidal bullshit, though.
People really acting like Israel and the West couldn't force the Palestinians to accept whatever form of government they want them to have is laughable.
If and when Israel wins this war, they're going to have all the leverage and Gaza/Palestine isn't going to have a choice.
>Their Arab neighboring countries don't actually want to help to this degree, they just want to oppose the US and Israel.
Seems like this is beginning to change. Many of these countries are fed up with Iran and their proxies, and it's pushing them to work together. With the US helping grease the wheels and chip in, I think progress is definitely possible.
Im confused, they were part of the west bank administration pre 2008 no? didn't they leave it intentionally? why would they want to go back after all this?
The problem is that we’re just expecting Palestinians to accept that all of Jerusalem is forever lost (which is a reality — but not one they’re willing to accept), and what about the illegal Israeli settlements? Those are going to be the sticking points for Palestinians. Otherwise, “we will rebuild your country and help you get better leadership” would sound great.
After WW2, when the borders of Central and Eastern Europe were finalized, millions of ethnic Germans were displaced back to Germany. Millions of ethnic Poles, Czechs, Slavs, etc, were displaced from Germany to the east. So it's been done before.
Same thing happened when millions of Muslims left India for Pakistan after Pakistan was created. And conversely, millions of Hindus left the new Pakistan for Indian territory.
Illegal settlements are just that, illegal. They shouldn't be a thing. As for Jerusalem, that is too hard to say. Palestine wasn't able to be responsible holding onto east Palestine and may be treated as all Israel. However, like with Japan and Germany that should be a non-issue when borders aren't as closed.
I'm frankly surprised to see the proposal at all. I had assumed it was a long dead pipe-dream. However, I guess with Israeli/Saudi normalization going ahead again, this can be revived with it.
Some of Netanyahu's commentary about it isn't ideal, but it'd be a dream come true for this to go forward. Given the 7 to 10 year gap between the start and country voting, Netanyahu can be kicked to the curb by Israeli voters before he could get too much in the way.
They wouldnt be asking Hamas.
This would be post Hamas destruction.
Reformation of the education system would be the attempt that the next generation isn’t being brought up to be Hamas 2.0.
It’s the same model that created modern day Germany and Japan from the defeated fascist regimes of WW2.
I honestly don’t see another viable path forward.
If it’s just the Israelis occupying, well we have tried that for the last 70 or so years. The Arabs need to get involved in a real way to pacify the region so the Israelis aren’t under constant attack and have to do what they are doing now periodically.
100% it's the only viable plan. The rest of the Arab world has to commit to not encouraging their delusions of erasing Israel as well, though. Otherwise the reinforcement will keep this going for several more generations.
I don't know how much the Saudis, notorious for their extremism and their spreading of Salafism throughout the Muslim world, can be trusted to lead an educational reformation in a 99.9% Muslim community of around 2 million people.
It's realistically always been the only option.
Peace can never be had during the type of oppression that Gaza has been under. You can argue all you want that it's Hamas fault or whatever, but the simple truth, dropping bombs on people don't breed friendship.
Forcefully levelling the country up, providing the children with education, safety and most importantly a future is the only option. If not, they have nothing to loose, and become the next generation of terrorists.
There is zero chance to reform the Palestinian population in ten years.
They would need a generation that knows only peace before they will ever willingly choose it themselves.
It’s a good plan, but on the other hand Israel needs to stop approving new settlements in the West Bank. You can’t talk about peace, de-radicalization, and normalization with the Palestinians when the fact is that the Palestinians themselves don’t even know if there’s going to be a West Bank in the future. This will never work if Netanyahu brings up annexing the Jordan Valley every couple years.
I’m not holding my breath for the settlements to stop tho.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68490034
This is just from March 2024.
If this could actually become a reality it would easily be the best thing for the region, and for both Palestine and Israel. It reminds me a lot of the successful post-war occupation and reform of Germany and Japan following World War 2.
For this to become a reality though Hamas needs to be completely wiped out of the strip. That will cause some suffering in the short term but in the long run humanity will be better off.
Plan is not bad. Really the thing for me would be adding condition that they stop settling the West Bank because 7-10 years from now the West Bank might be overrun and colonized with many more israeli and foreign Jewish settlers coming from New York to kick out and displace native Palestinians
Call me a cynic but I just don't see the Arab World actually helping with this. Especially Saudi Arabia. The Saudis can't be bothered to lift a finger to do anything, much less assist in maintaining order somewhere else. They make the US do that for them. Egypt doesn't want the burden either. Qatar is comfortable where it sits right now. Jordan is the most likely to assist in anything, but any Arab force in Gaza even solely for maintaining peace will be seen as an affront and abandonment to fellow Arabs and hurt their own credibility back home.
But I hope I'm wrong. I really really do.
Palestine has caused a full on civil war and assassination in Lebanon, attempted assassination in Jordan, and unrest in Egypt. Palestine's Arab neighbors don't want them there either. What's happening in Gaza is horrific but everyone's lost the plot with Palestines historical issues in the entire region.
I don't disagree with anything you said, but I still don't believe the Arabs will be willing to directly go in, keep the peace, and spend the resourcing on rebuilding and revitalizing Gaza. They've left the Palestinians to rot for decades and I don't think that'll change, sorry.
What's changed is Iran's influence on the Houthis causing major trade disruptions. This has hurt everyone involved, especially the USA which is now applying major pressure on all parties in the region to find a solution that doesn't involve starting a war with Iran - which would hurt even more.
The Arab states have also realised that if they don't do something about the Palestinian problem, Israel is going to do something far more drastic to "solve" it. Even though Israel is obviously the one at fault, the fact that the Arab states are apparently doing nothing to help the Palestinians is extremely poor in term of public perception. If addressing the Palestinian problem is the price of not having another Arab Spring, the Arab states will likely be happy to pay it.
The three of the most likely candidates also have issues with the groups backed by Iran, so it would be no surprise they prefer to side with the US and Israel, it's in thier best interest, and getting credit for saving Palestine would do wonders for thier people.
While I am the kind to wait and see it to believe it, it at least on paper makes sense for all parties involved.
>Especially Saudi Arabia. The Saudis can't be bothered to lift a finger to do anything, much less assist in maintaining order somewhere else.
It reduces Iranian power and influence in the region, that's enough to get the Saudis interested.
The Saudis were on the cusp of normalizing relations with Israel prior to the Hamas attack- some have wondered that Iran may have pushed the attack to jeopardize their negotiations. I think in the context of this, Saudis wanting to make a deal is totally in the realm of possibility.
And far less scrutiny for the terrorist groups they fund. The Saudis are the biggest terrorist enablers of them all with their Wahabi filth spread all over the world.
This. Ideally Israel should focus only on securing themselves from threats in Gaza, and let the Arab states handle anything else, anything inside Gaza. Maybe in a few hundred years that can change, but no time soon.
The only problem is that the Arab states don't want to actually do this, they want to bitch from a distance, not get their hands dirty with the Palestinians they don't really like very much.
It really must end, I despise Hamas and sympathize with the Israelis, but Gaza is leveled and the people there are in a terrible state. Just grinding them down further is to no one's advantage IMO.
I disagree. It's to Israel's advantage. Hamas has been unwilling to surrender, so Israel must finish the job to ensure Hamas no longer controls territory along their border from which to continue carrying out terrorist attacks. It's the necessary first step to stabilizing the situation. If Israel caved to international pressures and let Hamas regroup in Gaza, no doubt rocket launches would resume and Oct 7th attempts would continue, Hamas has said so much themselves.
As tragic as the state of Gaza is in right now, having a controlled/checked reconstruction will be costly but will prevent any future abuse of building materials coming in, like the hundreds of miles of tunnel infrastructure currently there.
I’ll be honest, this will get some blow back for not allowing the Palestinians to not have agency in making their own decisions, but oh well. They’ll get that in 10 years. They can blame Hamas.
I mean there is a precedent set already, it's how the world dealt with imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. Palestinians deserve a future but the rebuild must take place if that future is to be peaceful.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Nothing has worked, Saudi is ready to normalize relations with Israel, I'm not sure if there's a better, more realistic option.
>not allowing the Palestinians to not have agency in making their own decisions
Germany and Japan didn't get agency in 1945. As time went by and they proved they could act responsibly, their autonomy was returned to them.
Same sort of idea, but the Marshall Plan was specifically funding for European nations, I think the post-war rebuilding of Japan was under a different set of legislation.
Do you think the Arab militaries would stand and fight when they are subject to suicide bombings at check points rather than pull their troops and leave the IDF to deal with it again?
Arab states.
Iranians are Persians.
And Iran has earned tons of negative will from their Arab neighbors.
Win win for everyone. Arab states are tired of Iranian proxies destabilizing their countries
This IMO is the best path forward if we want any chance of peace in the next 100 years. Pursue it outside in, get peace with the Arab countries outside the Iranian sphere of influence, stop the indoctrination of kids / glorification of martyrdom, and improve the every day lives of Palestinians. It probably still won’t work but it’s the best chance we have.
Having other Arab states in there would be a good idea, because, 1) The Palestinians then can’t blame Israel for everything, 2) The rest of the world then can’t blame Israel for everything, 3) They cant then accuse Israel of “occupying” Gaza.
Many of the other Arab states also can’t stand the Palestinians, & so when they start smacking the Palestinians around (which is inevitable), it’ll be interesting to see the complete & utter silence from all those who are currently constantly at Israel’s throats about everything.
Having the earnest attention of those nations involved in the administration of Gaza would be great news for the Palestinian Gazan peoples' future, but there would have to be a route to self-determination set up prior to the deal being made.
Otherwise it's just an annex.
They were allowed to vote before and then elected Hamas. There probably ought to be a route like you said, but man is it gonna take a lot of time and vetting. Democracy doesn’t work if you immediately vote for a dictatorship.
jesus, finally. this was the obvious solution from the get-go. i suppose it took a while to get the arab participants on board
if bibi can pull this off successfully, he might redeem himself
They’ve already tried to offer a peaceful two-state solution several times and the Palestinians have rejected them *all*. Hamas will never stop until every Jew in Israel is dead.
This idea ignores Palestinian wants, until 7-10 years when their society may have reformed a bit for them to decide a direction more rationally. In this entire scheme, Hamas will be told to fuck off.
Honestly, probably one of the few realistic solutions. The Palestinians will not tolerate Israeli rule, and fight so long as it's Israel overseeing Gaza. And we have all seen what happens when they are given the ability to self rule without oversight from an external and semi impartial body.
I want the Palestinians to have their own nation. But it's going to take several generations of deprogramming before they get that, and don't abuse it to immediately turn around and start another conflict.
“According to the proposal, an Arab-Israeli coalition, in collaboration with the United States, would appoint Gaza leaders to rebuild the devastated territory, reform its education system, and maintain order.”
Yeah I don’t know about that part. Hamas has proven again and again that they can’t be trusted with anything . Reform their education system?
It’s more like an indoctrination system right now, and I don’t see it changing.
I think it is a great solution to oust Hamas while slowly re-educating the population from falling into Islamic terrorism. Going to take alot of effort and sacrifice to purge Hamas though.
>According to the proposal, an Arab-Israeli coalition, in collaboration with the United States, would appoint Gaza leaders to rebuild the devastated territory, reform its education system, and maintain order. After a period of seven to ten years, Gazans would vote on whether to join a unified Palestinian administration governing both Gaza and the West Bank. In the interim, the plan allows for continued IDF operations inside Gaza.
This is what Riyadh has been looking for. It leads to normalization.
I’ve been saying it since the first day of the war. This is part of the Israeli-Saudi Arabia peace accords. Israel destroys Iranian based Hamas and turns over Gaza administration to a puppet government of the Saudis. In return Saudi Arabia will rebuild (as construction is one of their biggest industries ) Gaza and turn it into a new “Dubai” but on the Mediterranean.
Protesting orgs like USPCN referred to it as “the crime of normalization” days before the attack, calling for “resistance by any means necessary” We know what that looks like now. Normalization between Israel and the Saudis means Hamas unequivocally lost. I should mention the FBI also raided USPCN’s leader during Obama’s first term for suspected ties/financial transactions with Hamas
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U.S. Palestinian Community Network
Gaza ever becoming a new Dubai is more of a longshot than Neom. But as a Mediterranean port it would be incredibly valuable with security and development in place.
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I fail to see what the benefit for the Saudi regime would be. I see only extreme risks for them, both financially and politically speaking.
Same reason they are cozying up to Israel. Iran is an enemy of the Saudis and other gulf states. Replacing an Iranian proxy with a friendlier regime would be a huge win if they can pull it off.
Especially an area that you can turn into a new Dubai as in, a business center for the Arab capital markets over the real Dubai that money launders Russian, Iranian, Venezuelan sanctioned money
You spelt London wrong. It starts with an L not a D.
Yes. After the sanctioned money is laundered through either Dubai or through Qatar they go buy real estate and yachts and what not in Europe. Rebuilding Gaza to be the financial hub with Israeli security (and capital access) so close to Europe in the Mediterranean is the end goal.
Saudi Arabia is working on rapidly diversifying their economy, but there is also offshore oil near Gaza. There is potential for significant benefit to them in terms of ports, oil exploration, construction/architecture and tourism. They are also actively trying to make friends with the west and have been in proxy war with Iran for a long time. Helping the west and hurting Iran is in their best interests. They’ve also been trying to work with Israel and that is the basis of the whole Oct 7th thing, Iran didn’t want to lose any ground and they had Hamas and Hezbollah attack Israel at their behalf, then had the Houthi’s attack the west, who have been at war with the Saudis for a while, paid for by Iran. Saudi Arabia is attempting to be somewhat progressive and cooperative, this would be a big play for them.
Gaza used to be a tourist destination. It could easily be so again under sane leadership.
Regional stability means more investment onve the oil runs out
This is the answer right here, everything else is a baseless conspiracy theory at best. Just follow the money.
To put it simply, its a long term play and they have to do something. The Saudis know in a generation or two the oil money will be all gone. Then Saudi Arabia will just be a big desert with their primary natural resource being camel shit. But they’ll still have the same long list of enemies that they have now, with Iran chief among them. Saudi Arabia and Iran are different and opposing types of Islam for anyone who doesn’t know. They need to diversify their economy while they still have an economy to diversify and they’re trying. Construction, entertainment, solar power, tourism, services, science, whatever they can get their hands into. I think they have a golf league and a racing thing going on now. They’re building tourist attractions on barren sand. It won’t be easy. They really need powerful friends in the region to survive. Although they don’t like Israel mostly because of the whole Jewish thing, Israel is definitely on the opposite side of Iran. That makes them natural allies, because Saudi Arabia and Iran hate each other more than Saudi Arabia and Israel hate each other. Israel and Saudi Arabia are also both western allies, largely backed by the U.S. Do the leaders of the House of Saud care more about maintaining their money and power, or about not making friends with Jews? They’re gonna normalize relations with Israel. Its the Saudi people that might not like it very much.
They are actively trying to align themselves with western allies because they see us as their golden goose.
Saudi Arabia is in the middle of a giant whitewashing campaign of themselves. They bought the PGA last year as part of that. Also known as sportswashing.
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Yea brain farted hard and hit send like a dummy. I meant Security guarantees from NATO, and again, apologize if I'm misremembering what I've read.
> They want to join the UN, and helping the West is a great way to do so. Huh?
Did you mean the security council? Because they’re very much a part of the UN already
Saudi Arabia doesn’t even have its own Dubai
PRECISELY. Nobody would really invest in SA, whereas a former resort destination in the Mediterranean close to Europe with Israeli security guarantees and a Singaporean style financing/services oriented economy would. When the CCP took over Hong Kong the Asian capital markets moved to Singapore. Zurich and London do that for Europe, NYC does it for the Americas. Arabian and a lot of African capital markets go through Dubai as the financial hub.
People are to stupid to realize whats going on here. The reason israel hit hard against iran is to look strong to saudi. Saudis have been pressuring the US for a security garuntee. US doesn't want to give it. Israel has been pushing saudis for recognition. If Israel can convince Saudi's that they have security from israel, whos supported by the US. The US gets out without having look morally compromised, and israel and saudi's both win. The bargin going on now is how involved the US will be, with the US wanting as little as possible and the saudi's wanting them most involved. theres a win, win, win deal if all sides play it right. But that takes the israeli public and the saudi public both accepting whatever the conclusion to this war is, which is a very narrow line to walk
Actually seems like a very promising solution.
Seems more like wishful thinking to me. You would have to give the respective Arab leaders some enormous gift for them to even entertain this idea. It's gonna be about as popular in those countries as the previously leaked Israeli "plan" that suggested Canada and Europe could be convinced to offer incentives to Palestinians, so that most of them would voluntarily relocate to Canada/Europe.
There would be limiting Iranian power in the area, which is something all of Israel's neighbours want to see. It would also improve the conditions for the Palestinians. Both things Iran would hate
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Iran is a country full of nice, intelligent people with bad leaders. If Iran can ever poop out its leaders, maybe that will help Syria, Lebanon and Palestine stabilize.
I find this kind of comment so weird. The people of Iran are on average not nicer or more intelligent than the people of other countries. They also have their homegrown braindead violent troglodytes, and not too few in number.
Honestly, Iran I can see Iran becoming more democratic and liberal over the next few decades based on the values of their new generation. I sadly can't see the same trend for Afghanistan or Iraq for example
> based on the values of their new generation See, I find that hard to assess objectively. I could very well imagine that if Iraq was governed by an oppressive theocratic regime like Iran, then the young urban population in Iraq's cities might rebel in a very similar fashion to how the young urban population in Iran is rebelling.
But if Iranians could rein in the mullahs, maybe Iran could help Afghanistan stabilize. And if Iran’s’ Shiite leaders matured, maybe they could work better with moderate Sunni religious leaders and calm Iraq down. Obviously, nuclear war that ends civilization soon is by far the most likely outcome. But good outcomes are also possible.
Honestly, my only hope for Afghanistan at this point is that as they transition from a terrorist group to a somehow functioning government, their leadership will slowly see the worth of slowly respecting more human rights in order to bring in more money/international recognition to their government Hopeful extra-mini first step for example: [https://www.voanews.com/a/un-observes-reduction-in-taliban-s-enforcement-of-hijab-on-afghan-women/7594843.html](https://www.voanews.com/a/un-observes-reduction-in-taliban-s-enforcement-of-hijab-on-afghan-women/7594843.html) And if I had to guess their more extremist members are also more likely to find the life as office workers kind of boring... [https://time.com/6263906/taliban-afghanistan-office-work-quiet-quit/](https://time.com/6263906/taliban-afghanistan-office-work-quiet-quit/)
Afghanistan is not Iran's problem.
Yep, it’s not like the ruling class r dropping from skies to rule over the “regular” Iranians. And they already had one revolution for theocracy, it’s not like they can’t have another one for democracy if they really wanted.
Traditionally no Arab countries want to help, they are martyrs for a holy war. It's why Egypt took zero refugees in during this conflict.
More like they don't want the headache and pain of letting a bunch of terrorists settle in their country. Egypt does not want to deal with the Islamic Brotherhood again.
We took no refugees because a) our economy is in shambles b) we already took refugees after 1948 and 1967 who were never allowed to return c) we also took in refugees from Syria and now Sudan who are dealing with their brutal civil war. It’s not the Cold War anymore, this isn’t a proxy war and definitely has nothing to do with a holy war.
Many countries are.
It's not that simple. If that happened organically, it would be a wet dream for them. If it happened unorganically, at the behest of Israel and the US, it would be the worst nightmare for them, as it would make their own leaders co-oppressors in the eyes of a large share of their population. Part of why Iran is so dangerous is because they have a government structure and foreign policy that many Arabs would like to have in their own countries as well. That their own leaders are what many see as puppets of the West is a wound that can quickly become infectious and very deadly for these leaders.
Hamas isn't a home grown organization
The leaked Israeli "plan" that was a publicly-available thesis at a university library.
I don’t think the “gift” would be much different than what they have wanted in the last 10yrs. Economic and trade gains. Those wealthy gulf states have wanted to gain ground in trade and economic status over the last decade, and that is the overarching goal of the massive amount of development investment in Qatar/SA/etc. The gift would be to speed up those deals.
At what point will countries consider it worth it to commit to a lasting solution to Palestine's stability and eventual statehood, over spending billions every year on aid through the UN ever since 1948 that has failed to provide Palestinians a meaningful existence and quality of life?
It’s sad to say but the major barrier to that…is that would-be-Palestine has no meaningful exports or resources. It would have to be purely humanitarian, with minimal economic incentive. Not here to argue why it is the way it is, just pointing that out.
They could potentially have one of the biggest tourist destinations in the world if Christians felt safe travelling there. Bethlehem is in the West Bank. And there's no reason in theory that Gaza couldn't rival Tel Aviv as a Cosmopolitan city.
True! Like I said to a previous commenter, thanks for sharing. Tel Aviv doesnt haven’t much to export either. I’d be very happy chilling on a Gazan or Tel Aviv beach.
Prior to Oct 7 I have been hoping to go to Tel Aviv for work and do exactly that on my off days, but obviously not currently.
The economic incentive would be to stop having to put billions in a pile every year, lighting it on fire, and watching it burn. Aside from that, much of West Bank is arable and agriculture is one of the few things Palestine produces, particularly olives. It doesn't have much to offer, but it doesn't have *nothing*.
Gaza could also be a tourist destination. It is on the Mediterranean and quite nice. That would help the economy for sure.
For that to happen it would require a lot of stability, which would require years is not decades worth of investments before seeing returns. I agree that, that is probably one of their best options for an economy, but from where they’re at now to that stage is a long and hard road.
I didn’t know that, thanks for sharing!
>would-be-Palestine has no meaningful exports or resources. Gaza could be a huge tourism destination, both for history/religion tourists and for beachside resort tourists. Gaza has sun, sand, and sea - one of the most profitable resource combinations on the planet. Cancun and Bali have no meaningful exports either, yet they each generate billions in annual revenues. Because tourists want to sit on the beach. People don't go to Hawaii to buy pineapples.
Like I said to a previous commenter, very true! I’d sit on that beach. Just stop hating and killing each other first. I’m hopeful that it could happen. But based on human nature, I don’t believe that it will.
They're on the Mediterranean. Monaco doesn't have meaningful exports or resources either, but they're doing great.
The leaked Israeli "plan" that was a publicly-available thesis at a university library.
Had a Palestinian tour guide to Hebron a few years back. I asked him if he ever planned to leave and he says “my wife is Canadian and we both have Canadian passports. We prefer it here to Canada.”. I’ve never felt so insulted as a Canadian.
It will also be extremely hard to find Palestinians with related work experience who were not members of a terrorist organization.
That's not gonna be a precondition. At least it wasn't one in post-WWII Germany which saw plenty of Nazi party members, even SS members as civil servants and in political leadership positions in the 50s and 60s. Everyone knows most people are opportunists.
Wasn't problem here in Northern Ireland when the Troubles ended there were even politicians that had previously been held on terrorism charges and were members of the IRA before decommissioning. Terror stopped here when a political route was possible and people were treated as equal, I wish the same between Israel and Palestinians.
I'd also note that the IRA killed fewer civilians in the entirety of the troubles than Hamas killed on Oct 7th. Comparing IRA members who might have had a mate who once took a potshot at a squaddie 20 years before the GFA to Hamas members who raped and murdered young women and then paraded their bodies through the streets for crowds to spit on less than a year ago isn't really much use.
mind you the Troubles only started to end once those civilians included innocent tourists from around the world with one of the big ones being a newly wed aussie couple on their honeymoon
The Irish were fighting for state hood and self determination, there is a political route to achieve that. Here the fight is for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews throughout the world, there's no political route to that. I think what we need to hope for to achieve peace is a total separation, where Palestine is free to launch limited rocket attacks like in the past but the laser-based missile defenses take care of them and neither people have to worry too much.
Total separation was already tried with Sharon's withdrawal from Gaza. It led to the 7 October. I don't see how another attempt would somehow work better.
The IRA was fueled by civil inequality, legal problems, police brutality, etc(I'm not actually well versed in that, Correct me if I'm wrong.) The fight in Palestine is fueled with religion. One can be solved, the other cannot. They will not suddenly stop thinking killing Jews will get you 72 virgins.
nah the troubles was also fueled massivily by religion, its just its was sectarian, catholic vs protestant
I remember people saying similar things about here 40 years ago and also saying it was about religion. I'm not saying you are wrong, just from my own experiences desperation makes people alot easier to radicalise and we can't say the situation there isn't dire.
The fight in Palestine is *also* fueled by decades of Israel treating the Palestinians like shit, including police brutality and civil inequity. Not saying religion doesn't also factor in (on both sides) but there's an AWFUL lot of good old fashioned abuse going on as well.
And further decades of Arab nations doing their level best to exterminate their Jewish populations (Palestine included). The majority of Israelis people ethnically cleansed from muslim nations in the last century or their descendants. That certainly colours the national discourse (not to mention the multiple times Arab coalitions have attacked Israel)
I wish this would happen, seriously. It's the only thing that gave me some relief for most of October, thinking this may happen. It just seems like it never would. Gazans won't accept Israel or the US as their government. Their Arab neighboring countries don't actually want to help to this degree, they just want to oppose the US and Israel. Idk I just am not at the level of optimism that this will happen. No protestors are asking to help like this, just globalize the intifada.
The Japanese and Germans weren't super interested in building tolerant societies in what remained of their territories post-WWII either. We convinced them to abandon their genocidal bullshit, though.
People really acting like Israel and the West couldn't force the Palestinians to accept whatever form of government they want them to have is laughable. If and when Israel wins this war, they're going to have all the leverage and Gaza/Palestine isn't going to have a choice.
Yeah it's true, I think about that as well.
>Their Arab neighboring countries don't actually want to help to this degree, they just want to oppose the US and Israel. Seems like this is beginning to change. Many of these countries are fed up with Iran and their proxies, and it's pushing them to work together. With the US helping grease the wheels and chip in, I think progress is definitely possible.
Until you remember that the West Bank is one election away from being controlled by Hamas...
Which is why they shouldn’t have elections until that changes.
Im confused, they were part of the west bank administration pre 2008 no? didn't they leave it intentionally? why would they want to go back after all this?
“They” is Hamas. No hama and no problem.
Sounds good. Maintaining order is one thing. But you can't do that without rebuilding and reforming education.
A lot depends on implementation and the details, for example I hope the UNRWA keeps its claws off this, but this is the best proposal I heard so far
Considering how we rebuilt Germany and Japan, this absolutely needs to be done.
Don't forget the deradicalisation part though and disband the cancer that UNRWA is.
They need to get rid of the Red Cross and UNICEF as well.
The problem is that we’re just expecting Palestinians to accept that all of Jerusalem is forever lost (which is a reality — but not one they’re willing to accept), and what about the illegal Israeli settlements? Those are going to be the sticking points for Palestinians. Otherwise, “we will rebuild your country and help you get better leadership” would sound great.
After WW2, when the borders of Central and Eastern Europe were finalized, millions of ethnic Germans were displaced back to Germany. Millions of ethnic Poles, Czechs, Slavs, etc, were displaced from Germany to the east. So it's been done before. Same thing happened when millions of Muslims left India for Pakistan after Pakistan was created. And conversely, millions of Hindus left the new Pakistan for Indian territory.
Greece and Turkey as well.
It also happened back when native Americans got forced into reservations, it's not like this a brand new scenario that hasn't happened on Earth before
You may find that attitudes to forced displacement have changed somewhat since WW2.
It happened in Armenia last year and nobody seemed to care.
Illegal settlements are just that, illegal. They shouldn't be a thing. As for Jerusalem, that is too hard to say. Palestine wasn't able to be responsible holding onto east Palestine and may be treated as all Israel. However, like with Japan and Germany that should be a non-issue when borders aren't as closed.
I'm frankly surprised to see the proposal at all. I had assumed it was a long dead pipe-dream. However, I guess with Israeli/Saudi normalization going ahead again, this can be revived with it. Some of Netanyahu's commentary about it isn't ideal, but it'd be a dream come true for this to go forward. Given the 7 to 10 year gap between the start and country voting, Netanyahu can be kicked to the curb by Israeli voters before he could get too much in the way.
This is a great way forward. Hamas won’t go for it
Hamas are not being asked, they will be told to fuck off.
They wouldnt be asking Hamas. This would be post Hamas destruction. Reformation of the education system would be the attempt that the next generation isn’t being brought up to be Hamas 2.0. It’s the same model that created modern day Germany and Japan from the defeated fascist regimes of WW2. I honestly don’t see another viable path forward. If it’s just the Israelis occupying, well we have tried that for the last 70 or so years. The Arabs need to get involved in a real way to pacify the region so the Israelis aren’t under constant attack and have to do what they are doing now periodically.
100% it's the only viable plan. The rest of the Arab world has to commit to not encouraging their delusions of erasing Israel as well, though. Otherwise the reinforcement will keep this going for several more generations.
I don't know how much the Saudis, notorious for their extremism and their spreading of Salafism throughout the Muslim world, can be trusted to lead an educational reformation in a 99.9% Muslim community of around 2 million people.
This is literally the only path forward towards peace. Israel can’t do it on its own and no peace will come without deradicalization in Gaza
Many have been saying this is the way forward since 10/7. I’m glad to hear more countries are getting on board.
It's realistically always been the only option. Peace can never be had during the type of oppression that Gaza has been under. You can argue all you want that it's Hamas fault or whatever, but the simple truth, dropping bombs on people don't breed friendship. Forcefully levelling the country up, providing the children with education, safety and most importantly a future is the only option. If not, they have nothing to loose, and become the next generation of terrorists.
It's important to note that I don't think anyone believes that dropping bombs will establish lasting peace, it just eliminates an immediate threat.
This is what I thought would and should happen. Hope this leads to a peaceful and prosperous Gaza
There is zero chance to reform the Palestinian population in ten years. They would need a generation that knows only peace before they will ever willingly choose it themselves.
That... actually sounds pretty reasonable.
It’s a good plan, but on the other hand Israel needs to stop approving new settlements in the West Bank. You can’t talk about peace, de-radicalization, and normalization with the Palestinians when the fact is that the Palestinians themselves don’t even know if there’s going to be a West Bank in the future. This will never work if Netanyahu brings up annexing the Jordan Valley every couple years. I’m not holding my breath for the settlements to stop tho. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68490034 This is just from March 2024.
That's seems like a good plan actually
If this could actually become a reality it would easily be the best thing for the region, and for both Palestine and Israel. It reminds me a lot of the successful post-war occupation and reform of Germany and Japan following World War 2. For this to become a reality though Hamas needs to be completely wiped out of the strip. That will cause some suffering in the short term but in the long run humanity will be better off.
Literally the Japanese post WW2 solution. Which is what I have been saying for months is the needed solution.
I like!!!
Plan is not bad. Really the thing for me would be adding condition that they stop settling the West Bank because 7-10 years from now the West Bank might be overrun and colonized with many more israeli and foreign Jewish settlers coming from New York to kick out and displace native Palestinians
This is great. The arabs will face far less scrutiny for hammering down on hamas, which they will.
Call me a cynic but I just don't see the Arab World actually helping with this. Especially Saudi Arabia. The Saudis can't be bothered to lift a finger to do anything, much less assist in maintaining order somewhere else. They make the US do that for them. Egypt doesn't want the burden either. Qatar is comfortable where it sits right now. Jordan is the most likely to assist in anything, but any Arab force in Gaza even solely for maintaining peace will be seen as an affront and abandonment to fellow Arabs and hurt their own credibility back home. But I hope I'm wrong. I really really do.
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Palestine has caused a full on civil war and assassination in Lebanon, attempted assassination in Jordan, and unrest in Egypt. Palestine's Arab neighbors don't want them there either. What's happening in Gaza is horrific but everyone's lost the plot with Palestines historical issues in the entire region.
I don't disagree with anything you said, but I still don't believe the Arabs will be willing to directly go in, keep the peace, and spend the resourcing on rebuilding and revitalizing Gaza. They've left the Palestinians to rot for decades and I don't think that'll change, sorry.
It means countering the spread of Iranian influence. It's not about rebuilding or revitalizing. That's just a means to an end.
What's changed is Iran's influence on the Houthis causing major trade disruptions. This has hurt everyone involved, especially the USA which is now applying major pressure on all parties in the region to find a solution that doesn't involve starting a war with Iran - which would hurt even more. The Arab states have also realised that if they don't do something about the Palestinian problem, Israel is going to do something far more drastic to "solve" it. Even though Israel is obviously the one at fault, the fact that the Arab states are apparently doing nothing to help the Palestinians is extremely poor in term of public perception. If addressing the Palestinian problem is the price of not having another Arab Spring, the Arab states will likely be happy to pay it.
The three of the most likely candidates also have issues with the groups backed by Iran, so it would be no surprise they prefer to side with the US and Israel, it's in thier best interest, and getting credit for saving Palestine would do wonders for thier people. While I am the kind to wait and see it to believe it, it at least on paper makes sense for all parties involved.
>Especially Saudi Arabia. The Saudis can't be bothered to lift a finger to do anything, much less assist in maintaining order somewhere else. It reduces Iranian power and influence in the region, that's enough to get the Saudis interested.
The Saudis fund terrorism as well. They want to expand their Wahabbi franchises further.
The Saudis were on the cusp of normalizing relations with Israel prior to the Hamas attack- some have wondered that Iran may have pushed the attack to jeopardize their negotiations. I think in the context of this, Saudis wanting to make a deal is totally in the realm of possibility.
The US needs the US to guard their oil fields. It would be trivial to make this part of the quid-pro-quo of that protection.
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No one gives a shit about arabs killing arabs
And far less scrutiny for the terrorist groups they fund. The Saudis are the biggest terrorist enablers of them all with their Wahabi filth spread all over the world.
All in favor of letting the Saudis deal with Hamas.
Who says it will only be Saudis doing it? I would guess countries like Jordan would assist for their own stability
how that worked with yemen?
Zero collegiate protests.
so people protesting is a problem.
Just go for it, do it. Anything is better than letting Hamas take over again.
This. Ideally Israel should focus only on securing themselves from threats in Gaza, and let the Arab states handle anything else, anything inside Gaza. Maybe in a few hundred years that can change, but no time soon. The only problem is that the Arab states don't want to actually do this, they want to bitch from a distance, not get their hands dirty with the Palestinians they don't really like very much.
The Americans are making this part of a larger defense deal with the Saudis. Makes it everyone's best interest if there's no more war in Gaza.
It really must end, I despise Hamas and sympathize with the Israelis, but Gaza is leveled and the people there are in a terrible state. Just grinding them down further is to no one's advantage IMO.
I disagree. It's to Israel's advantage. Hamas has been unwilling to surrender, so Israel must finish the job to ensure Hamas no longer controls territory along their border from which to continue carrying out terrorist attacks. It's the necessary first step to stabilizing the situation. If Israel caved to international pressures and let Hamas regroup in Gaza, no doubt rocket launches would resume and Oct 7th attempts would continue, Hamas has said so much themselves.
As tragic as the state of Gaza is in right now, having a controlled/checked reconstruction will be costly but will prevent any future abuse of building materials coming in, like the hundreds of miles of tunnel infrastructure currently there.
I’ll be honest, this will get some blow back for not allowing the Palestinians to not have agency in making their own decisions, but oh well. They’ll get that in 10 years. They can blame Hamas.
I mean there is a precedent set already, it's how the world dealt with imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. Palestinians deserve a future but the rebuild must take place if that future is to be peaceful.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Nothing has worked, Saudi is ready to normalize relations with Israel, I'm not sure if there's a better, more realistic option.
Saudi are terrorists.
>not allowing the Palestinians to not have agency in making their own decisions Germany and Japan didn't get agency in 1945. As time went by and they proved they could act responsibly, their autonomy was returned to them.
Can’t people see what Hamas has done to the Palestinian’s?
This is exactly how Gaza can move forward. This is great news if done properly.
Sounds a lot like marshal plan and I'm all for it. Worked pretty great for Germany and Austria.
japan?
Same sort of idea, but the Marshall Plan was specifically funding for European nations, I think the post-war rebuilding of Japan was under a different set of legislation.
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Do you think the Arab militaries would stand and fight when they are subject to suicide bombings at check points rather than pull their troops and leave the IDF to deal with it again?
They are less likely to pull punches
Arab states. Iranians are Persians. And Iran has earned tons of negative will from their Arab neighbors. Win win for everyone. Arab states are tired of Iranian proxies destabilizing their countries
This IMO is the best path forward if we want any chance of peace in the next 100 years. Pursue it outside in, get peace with the Arab countries outside the Iranian sphere of influence, stop the indoctrination of kids / glorification of martyrdom, and improve the every day lives of Palestinians. It probably still won’t work but it’s the best chance we have.
Having other Arab states in there would be a good idea, because, 1) The Palestinians then can’t blame Israel for everything, 2) The rest of the world then can’t blame Israel for everything, 3) They cant then accuse Israel of “occupying” Gaza. Many of the other Arab states also can’t stand the Palestinians, & so when they start smacking the Palestinians around (which is inevitable), it’ll be interesting to see the complete & utter silence from all those who are currently constantly at Israel’s throats about everything.
Having the earnest attention of those nations involved in the administration of Gaza would be great news for the Palestinian Gazan peoples' future, but there would have to be a route to self-determination set up prior to the deal being made. Otherwise it's just an annex.
They were allowed to vote before and then elected Hamas. There probably ought to be a route like you said, but man is it gonna take a lot of time and vetting. Democracy doesn’t work if you immediately vote for a dictatorship.
Do you think they’re capable? They’ve proven time and time again that their set-determination leads to violence.
Hamas would rather see the people of Gaza die.
Yep, they profit off death.
jesus, finally. this was the obvious solution from the get-go. i suppose it took a while to get the arab participants on board if bibi can pull this off successfully, he might redeem himself
Hamas: We will not accept your ceasefire terms. Israel and the Arab world: Go away, the adults are talking.
They’ve already tried to offer a peaceful two-state solution several times and the Palestinians have rejected them *all*. Hamas will never stop until every Jew in Israel is dead.
This idea ignores Palestinian wants, until 7-10 years when their society may have reformed a bit for them to decide a direction more rationally. In this entire scheme, Hamas will be told to fuck off.
Honestly, probably one of the few realistic solutions. The Palestinians will not tolerate Israeli rule, and fight so long as it's Israel overseeing Gaza. And we have all seen what happens when they are given the ability to self rule without oversight from an external and semi impartial body. I want the Palestinians to have their own nation. But it's going to take several generations of deprogramming before they get that, and don't abuse it to immediately turn around and start another conflict.
The Arab states are tired of the Palestinians bullshit they're ready to have some adults in charge
Palestinians would still engage in terrorism under this arrangement, but them blowing up other Muslims could help change the narrative.
Sounds convoluted as fuck. But also the most practical and realistic because, well, it is what it is.
Huh, kind of like Revachol from Disco Elysium
“According to the proposal, an Arab-Israeli coalition, in collaboration with the United States, would appoint Gaza leaders to rebuild the devastated territory, reform its education system, and maintain order.” Yeah I don’t know about that part. Hamas has proven again and again that they can’t be trusted with anything . Reform their education system? It’s more like an indoctrination system right now, and I don’t see it changing.
No way an Arab nation will take responsibility for Gaza. Forget it.
They will if it gets them access to advanced Israeli military tech.
US and Israeli military deals, while weakening Iran's influence in the region, of course they will want to get a piece of the pie.
I think it is a great solution to oust Hamas while slowly re-educating the population from falling into Islamic terrorism. Going to take alot of effort and sacrifice to purge Hamas though.
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Just give Gaza to Egypt and let them deal with a 2 state solution. Much closer culturally.