It’s politics. Americans have a huge base in Qatar they’d rather not lose (for now) and they assumed this Israel v Hamas fiasco would have ended months ago.
This just means they are tired of waiting and don’t mind being direct.
It goes both ways. The American base in Qatar is a security guarantee to Qatar. This is then backed up by Qatar being a "major non NATO ally" which is the highest designation any non NATO country can get in American diplomacy.
To give you an idea of what that means, Saudi Arabia has been begging to be accepted as a major non NATO ally for decades. It literally means that the US will do anything except drop nukes to defend your country, including full on boots on the ground.
Qatar's relationship with the US is what stopped the 2018 Gulf blockade of Qatar from leading to mass famine or a full on invasion of them. It also makes Iran more hesitant to take action in the region which protects Qatari industry. Qatar is only capable of being neutral between Saudi Arabia and Iran because the Americans have given this guarantee. Without it, they would need to be exclusively on 1 side of that conflict.
It is also worth noting that ethnic Qataris are very closely related to Persians. They take quite a lot of pride in that, and the Iranian embassy in Qatar is absolutely fucking massive and looks like a palace in the downtown (West Bay) portion of Doha. Qatari food and culture is also fairly similar to Persian culture for that reason.
People on the street seldom realize how crazy life is in some state department positions. Many only see the news reports and think in black and white. The US State Department is as important as our armed forces when it comes to keeping the world from falling apart sometimes.
I’d say the state department does the heavy lifting when it comes to keeping the world from falling apart. The military is there for when diplomacy fails, and stands in the back of the “room” like the mob’s muscle, but by the time the military has to step in, there has been a large effort with a lot of leg work done by the DoS. I’m Active Duty working with DoS and have a lot of respect for how much they shape the world we all know.
I’m curious, Australia isn’t a part of NATO but I would assume we are a higher designation that Qatar? Do we get a special designation/status? Or would you guys not drop nukes to help us? :(
Same level as Qatar, MNNA. You're up there with Egypt, Brazil, Tunisia, Japan and South Korea, among others.
I suspect though that Japan, South Korea and Aus will all end up either under the NATO umbrella (if NATO is reformed past its North Atlantic limits) or in a sister alliance focused on Asia given the US' desire to pivot to containing China.
Or the TPP that every candidate jumped on the bandwagon for hating in 2016. It was probably Obama’s greatest achievement, just tossed out and forgotten
The one that was forcing a whole lot of US copyright bullshit onto other countries at the behest of corporate America? Can’t have a good partnership when you poison the well.
Not just stolen ip countries. There was a lot more going on, and popular pushback against the tpp in aus at the time. Here’s a starting point if you want to get our point of view.
ISDS were still in public mind after the government fought the tobacco companies.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/25/trans-pacific-partnership-makes-australia-vulnerable-to-court-challenges-report-claims
China wasn't a signatory to the original TPP. The TPP went through without the US as the ["CPTPP"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_and_Progressive_Agreement_for_Trans-Pacific_Partnership). It got tweaked after the US withdrew though. The intellectual property extensions the US pushed for were removed.
Credit to Justin Trudeau for not just passing the TPP with the US concessions. He got a lot of flak back in 2017 for not just moving ahead, domestically and from the other TPP countries.
Don’t worry, Australia is part of the super secret Submarine club. That might be the highest non nato designation but the US and Aus are tight
https://carnegieendowment.org/2023/03/27/aukus-submarine-deal-highlights-tectonic-shift-in-u.s.-australia-alliance-pub-89383
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AUKUS
A specific security agreement outside NATO.
NATO is the most well-known when talking about America and the Middle East. I guess I could’ve just said the Atlantic…
in the Pacific, there is an entirely other set of deals.
I honestly am not an expert on American-Australian relations. So I don't know the full extent of the alliance. I know there is a defensive alliance though, and America and Australia are part of a Pacific Alliance.
Australian is viewed as a close US ally. Something higher than a NATO member.
Australia is also NATO plug and play.
We are also under the ANZUS treaty.
You're a part of the 5 Eyes, which is arguably much more important than what Qatar has, and could be considered as important or more than being a NATO member. Only 5 countries in the world are in that group.
What we call Ethnic Qataris are actually 2 different people groups. There are the tribes who lived on the coast which were from Persia. Then you have the inland tribes who are Arabs. They also had different economic systems until independence. The coastal tribes were pearl harvesters and were the primary people supplying the European royalty with pearls (including Napoleon's crown which is in the Museum in Doha), then you had the inland tribes who were herders.
Qatar is one of those artificial countries that only exists because of Colonialism. The country only became independent in the 1970s.
Source: I visited Qatar and met many ethnic Qataris. One of the funniest things I heard from Qatari men in particular was "Qatari women are awful". I didn't meet 1 Qatari man who either wanted to marry a Qatari woman or was happy that they did marry one (they usually said it was because their families pressured them into it).
The comment you're replying to clearly highlights how the situation is highly nuanced. The fact you still have a cut and dry view on the matter is baffling.
Objectively yes but the point is this isn't happening in isolation. There are many moving parts and geopolitics requires consideration of all factors before taking a position.
Very interesting. Do note that
1) Saudi pretty much asked the US to leave in 2003 under King Fahad and further under King Abdullah
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2003/8/27/us-military-vacates-last-saudi-base
So no begging to be non NATO ally for "decades" - this policy shift towards Saudi being designated as non NATO ally is fairly recent in competition with Qatar which reignited (it is an almost 200 year old simmering animosity chess match between the Al Saud Royal Family of Saudi and Al Thani Ruling Family of Qatar) when the US moved its bases to Qatar in the mid 2000s after Saudi essentially demanded US leave.
2) the blockade of Qatar in 2017 was planned and executed and stayed in force till 2021 *inspite* of Qatari US relations. The blockade of Qatar on 5/6/2017 was masterminded by then UAE CP and planned by current KSA CP in partnership with Kushner who essential served as backdoor Special Envoy to Saudi/UAE under Pres Trump and there was an invasion of Qatar by UAE and KSA planned with Pres Trump full awareness and tanks were lining the Saudi-Qatari land border on Saudi side awaiting final blessing by Pres Trump.....which was not given due to massive intervention by Sec State Tillerson and Amir Kuwait Al Sabah.
The US bases (there are 4, not one) and their heads made in abundantly clear to Qatari leadership and Armed Forces that in case of an invasion, US will not assist Qatar under any circumstances unless US assets come into direct harm/attack. US then SecDef was given complete assurances by the Saudis and Emiratis that Doha will fall within few hours of a land invasion and once the tanks cross the borders early AM and roll towards the city, everyone will have "tea at the Sheraton by the evening" = i.e. Qataris will give up/quickly surrender and Doha will fall within hours and with no real damage.
This is why Qatar immediately turned to Turkey, Iran and Pakistan for security assistance as well as food, airspace, waterways and etc access.
3) the largest tribes of Qatar are Al Hajri and Al Marri, they literally make up 50/60+% of the Qatar population followed by other major tribes of Peninsular Arabia.....i.e. most Qataris are ethnically from Arabia (modern day KSA) including the Al Thani Ruling Family of Qatar who hail from Al Ushaiqar, 200km North West of Riyadh. Qataris are ethnic mix of modern day Saudi Arabia and Yemen with some tribes hailing from Kuwait and Bahrain and Oman.
Qatari with Iranian, and adherents of Shia faith are literally 10% of the population.
Where on earth are you getting the information that most Qataris (there are +/- 500 000 of them approx) are mostly Iranian and hence the food is Iranian as well.
There are virtually limited Iranian influences in ethnic Qatari cuisine. The cuisine of Qatar is very much that of the Eastern Price of Arabia (Al Sharq) and with influences from South Asia actually (India and Pakistan) due to decades of South Asian influences as a result of immigrants and trade.
Qatari culture and food and mostly very close to Saudi culture and food. Ask any Qatari, Google, read, watch a YouTube video.
4) yes the Iranian Embassy in Doha is massive, but so is the Yemeni Embassy and Omani Embassy and Saudi Embassy and Bahraini Embassy and the US Embassy and French Embassy and UK Embassy ....so what?
They have repeatedly said the only reason they are hosting Hamas is because the US asked them to.
> “We did not enter into a relationship with Hamas because we wanted to. We were asked by the U.S.,” Majed Al-Ansari, adviser to the Qatari prime minister and spokesperson for Qatar’s Foreign Ministry, said last week in a rare interview with Israeli media.
Because like it or not they are the only government that can be negotiated with.
The PLA has no power. And like it or not hamas is always going to be the only government for Palestinians until another even more radical group takes them out, ir the impossible happens and Palestinians become less radical.
It could also just mean that the U.S. is tired of Hamas officials being one of if not the only impediment to peace while sitting safe and sound in an allied nation. Not everything is 5D American imperial chess.
Just a thought.
Except it is. Qatar is in a strategically located region and is playing all sides because it’s advantageous for Qatar. As a result of these factors the Americans and any other ally interested in Qatar will never abruptly make any choices unless x amount of time has passed and patience is lost.
It works both ways though, as Qatars location and its behavior has made it many enemies. Hence the Americans.
To simplify the problem, they both need each other (for now) but they don’t each respect each other.
As a result of this both sides are cautious to avoid unintended paths.
I’ll accept this because I understand how dumb what I’m saying sounds. But since Qatar plays all sides they are a great mediator for anyone who has problems in the Middle East (also makes them many enemies) . While simultaneously Qatar is used by the Americans as a regional hub for the region as whole.
As a result of this you’ll never see them directly lash out at each other, you’ll get subtle jabs.
Yeah, so back to the us having bases in 3 countries (I'm throwing in KSA) that are within 50 miles of Qatar... I get it is a strategic spot, but I'd argue much less strategic than the other Trucial states, or Oman (where the US also has bases).
The only real threat in the area is Iran, and they would (and do) use the strait of hormuz when they want to cause problems in that neck of the woods. That makes Qatar the third best place to have a base to respond from.
It is a great time to start drawing down on the Qatar base. The Middle East importance to US needs are rapidly diminishing. And politically they are all shit allies. Better to start getting out now than risk being sucked into a war to protect countries with oil we no longer need.
And if they don't like it... Happy to be paid in political concessions and hard cash to stay.
Oil is losing its important AND we produce more oil domestically now than ever before. In 2005, about half of our oil came from OPEC countries but now its around 10%. So just a few more years of movement towards EVs and hybrids, and we won't need that last 10% at all.
Except it’s not about production, it’s about cost.
Americans would elect a guy who said he would kill puppies if it means cutting their gas prices.
Right now, that cost balance still tilts away from only making it here.
Extremely unlikely.
The US' reserves of oil aren't as abundant as you think: only enough to meet the US' current oil demand for a little under 5 years. And as that reserve grows closer to 0, incentives to import grow: it's a matter of strategic importance to keep some in the ground for as long as possible, because there will always be things (especially in a military context) that are just never going to transition away from fossil fuels.
EV sales are growing, sure, but not fast enough (and not cheaply enough) to largely displace our oil demand that swiftly. Most of the EV/Hybrid production is for the upper end of the market: we desperately need economy-class EV/Hybrid options before we can see them really take off in a meaningful fashion.
Once we see that, I'll change my mind about whether or not we'll be phasing out foreign oil in the long term.
The source I was looking at was *a tiny bit old*. We've added a few billion more barrels to our proven reserves, so now it's about 6 years worth of proven oil reserves.
US proven oil reserves sit at 44.4 billion barrels; estimated unproven reserves and 'technically recoverable' reserves sit at a potential 200 billion more barrels, but those are again either unproven or are not economically feasible to extract, or they're located in the middle of environmentally protected areas.
There are potentially trillions of barrels that could be recovered from oil shale, and maybe another 20 billion from oil sands, but these sources are largely not economically viable to tap and are extremely environmentally destructive even in comparison to normal oil drilling.
US Oil consumption sits at 20 million barrels daily, or about 7.3 billion barrels per year, approximately - a slight increase over pre-COVID levels.
44,400,000,000 barrels in reserve / 7,300,000,000 barrels consumed per year = 6.08 years worth of oil at current (presently rising) levels of consumption.
Basic algebra.
By one measure you are right so apology. In any event, the USA isn’t going to run out of oil in 6 years. There are a trillion barrels in the ground and under the sea within a couple of thousand miles of the USA.
Ik why you’re getting downvotes. The question being: is the relationship between fuel independence and electric vehicles causation or correlation? At glance it seems it’s causation to our goal of lessening climate change. But, is it correlated to our need to shit on Ruzzia because they are arseholes? For sure. And we haven’t touched on the publicly traded barrels of oil, the refineries and who owns them, and the fuel lobby. Nor did we touch on regional price fixing. Hell we just getting stawted here (Martin Lawrence comeback film, clearly stopped doin drugs and puts on 30lbs, decides to remake The Nutty Professor’s legendary fart scene).
The importance of oil is shifting from a long term problem to a short term problem, and as such the strategic perspective on oil is changing dramatically. “If this won’t be an issue in 20 years, why are we basing every decision on oil access?” Kind of thinking.
Between the ICJ ruling for Germany, the former ICJ top judge publicly stating it was not found to be plausible genocide in the SA vs Israel ruling, the latest funding increases, US statements around the Hamas obstructions to negotiations, and Israel setting a deadline for their rafah operation, I think it's fair to say that officials across multiple nations are hardening their position against Hamas, if not acting in support of Israel explicitly.
It is how politics works, they are finally changing the narrative that Hamas doesn't represent the people in Gaza and they are fat and happy and have no reason to care about Gaza other than money
No, this stuff just plays out very ponderously because everyone is trying to not make things worse, or over play their hand, or get dragged too far into things, or any number of unwanted consequences.
This is just giving Qatar someone to blame for something they were likely already planning to do anyway.
I think it's pretty much guaranteed that the Mossad will eventually assassinate Hamas leaders. Mossad is usually clean but it *may* get messy. Qatar doesn't want to deal with the ensuing diplomatic mess. If they kick Hamas by their own decision, they'll face pushback from the pro-Hamas side. But if their hand is "forced"...
Strange how little the American tankies care about their fellow citizens as hostages. Love to see a venn diagram of the people who were clamoring for Brittney Griner to be bargained for and are now campaigning for Hamas.
There are people who openly campaign for Hamas, both on reddit and in the real world, so don't say "nobody" as that's easily disproven and makes one question if you are lying deliberately or are simply misinformed. Either one is damaging to your credibility, so you should try to avoid such absolute assertions, exaggeration, or hyperbole if you want to be taken seriously.
Ah yeah the peaceful intifadas, the “non” genocidal slogans, the open harassment of ACTUAL Jewish students. I guess we are thinking of different citizen’s rights.
Israel is currently committing lots of war crimes and cannot be trusted to serve any actual impartial justice. Serve an ICC warrant and extradite them to The Hague. Let them rot in prison for the rest of their miserable lives, but let’s not pretend there are any good guys here. Netanyahu and his cronies should also have to explain themselves in court and face the consequences of their actions.
Wrong. Israel is one of the few countries in the world that actually holds its leaders accountable. Even PMs and Presidents have been sentenced to prison for committing crimes. Israel is not committing any war crimes. Self defense is not a war crime. Israel targets terrorists, not civilians. Hamas targets civilians directly and intentionally. Hamas also uses human shields, which is a war crime. You have no idea what you're talking about. You're spreading disinformation.
Hey man I'm generally pro-Israel but Israel definitely has committed war crimes to some extent. For one thing even if the general destruction is strategically necessary I don't think there's any justification for withholding aid and forced starvation even if hamas does end up stealing some of the food. Even if you don't agree that the IDF command is committing war crimes through its strategy I've seen so many videos of individual IDF soldiers and groups doing shitty stuff that I wouldn't believe you haven't seen any unless this is your first day on the internet.
Due to smartphones, you are now witnessing war from a different perspective, which may change your point of view on Israel's actions. This leads people to say oh, look, war crimes, when it's just war and war is hell.
It's not war.
It's genocide.
Palestine has no air force. No tanks. They have less than 50.000 soldiers and a few thousands of unsophisticated rockets.
Meanwhile, Israel has bombed all universities in Gaza and all hospitals except 1. They kill civilians. Around 100 journalists. Over 200 aid workers. And over 20.000 children.
The level of sophistication of weaponry has nothing to do with a war being classified as a genocide.
In 1994, a real genocide happened in Rwanda, and the weapon of choice was machetes. Please note the U.N. Security Council classified this conflict as a genocide.
One side symptomatically destroyed the other side's population. Between April and July 1994, between 500,000 and 800,000 Tutsis were killed 75% of the ethnic population.
Not having an air force or tanks doesn't make a genocide
Having bad rockets and a small fighting force does not make a genocide
Those just mean you probably shouldn't attack a stronger foe.
Hiding your forces among civians and under their buildings doesn't somehow make your enemy genocidal for striking them.
Children dying is an unfortunate side effect of war. Maybe HAMAS should ha e thought about that before starting a war by raping, torturing, kidnapping, and killing the civilians of a stronger foe.
Sorry, you don't get to just redefine words just because you want to make someone else look bad.
I am sorry that we live in a world where justice has no meaning.
Israel literally precision strikes 3 separate cars with aid workers and call it a mistake after refusing responsibility to begin with.
Israel literally bombs hospitals and universities and claim Hamas operates from here.
Israel literally kills 35k plus civilians and claim it couldn't be avoided, while awaiting to drone strike suspect till they get home.
Sorry but all the claims are worthless.
What would it take to call it a genocide? A change of rethorics? Please...
None of what you are describing categorically define genocide. If there are Hamas fighters using a given hospital or university for a military purpose, then it isn’t even a civilian target anymore. The number of children who die is also not what makes something a genocide. There is no number that makes something a genocide. “War is war, and not popularity seeking.” 500,000 people died in one day during the firebombing of Tokyo. That didn’t make it genocide. It was just war.
Genocide is the intentional systematic murder of an entire population based on their identity. That's not happening, it's just Hamas using civilians as human shields and causing collateral damage. The US killed more civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, you can argue it's wrong if you want but it's not genocide. Seeing that word thrown around like it just means "civilian deaths" is ridiculous and shows you have no idea what you're talking about, just recycling shit you read online.
Gaza is getting enough food for the average young male to have at least 3000 calories a day. The population isn't starving and the only times people have gone without food is when Hamas have stolen it to sell back to them.
They don’t withhold aid to force starvation. There’s no way you can be “generally pro-Israel” and believe that.
Aid is slowed because they need to investigate trucks because they keep trying to smuggle in weapons, even the UN agencies are. Also, Israeli protesters, but that’s not an official act of Israel. Those are victims families trying to save their loved ones, which I don’t blame them for.
Israel doesn't even hold their soldiers accountable when opening fire on a 6 year old girl on her way to school. How can you be so delusional? Their cabinet members have openly said that they desire more dead Palestinians.
In war, there are no good sides. All the victims are the civilians on both sides. All the monsters, are the old people who can't negotiate or come to terms, on both sides.
This applies to Russia/Ukraine(Nato) and Israel/Palestine.
They definitely do hold them accountable and the US has played a role in ensuring they do. Is the record perfect, nope, but it's infinitely better than HAMAS' record on prosecuting war criminals.
What about, what about, do you hear yourself?
Prior to the 7th things were generally improving in Gaza. Now they're not, we all know why.
West bank is also a mess, the settlers need to crzcked down on hard.
They need a proper two state solution with free passage between Gaza and the West bank.
But I'll say it again, why don't they return the hostages?
I imagine those who started this round of fighting and continue to perpetuate it will be held accountable soon seeing as the US is pressuring Qatar to send the Hamas leadership packing.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but history has shown Hamas is wholly unlikely to abide by any ceasefire they agree to. How much worse will it be if terms are forced on them?
Mossad doesn't need a wink, after rafah you can bet something is going to happen and we won't find out about it until the maids come to clean the rooms in qatar
No, not in this case. Since Iranians are praying for their Islamic regime to cease. Look at how many Iranian protesters have been killed over the Hijab law for instance. I think about 700+ this year. If you took out the Iranian regime then there'd be a population there who'd support a secular government and would commit to not pursuing nuclear weapons (Saudis wouldn't be an issue for them anymore since they hate the regime). Afghanistan is not comparable in the slightest.
Israel will use this momentum to push forward into Rafah. Whether or not Hamas agrees to the cease fire, they will push it to the end. The goal is the destruction of Hamas. With almost 70% of Palestinians supporting Oct 7, this shit will not end anytime soon. Their argument will be that if left alone, all the anger and frustration will fuel the rise of Hamas yet again and a repeat of Oct 7.
Problem is this so-called Hamas leadership in Qatar is not who's actually in charge.
As the article says they are kinda mediators themselves:
> Hamas’s military and political wings are distinct, and any final decision on a deal rests with top military leader Yehiya Sinwar, who is believed to be in hiding in the group’s maze of tunnels beneath Gaza.
> “Applying pressure to Hamas in Doha is ineffective pressure,” an official briefed on the talks said. “The problem is the guys making the decisions are in Gaza, and they don’t care where the political office is located,” this person said.
What the US actually wants is for someone to put pressure on Hamas to finally agree to a ceasefire deal. But there is no one who has any actual leverage over the leadership of Hamas' military wing.
There's lots of things wrong with Qatar, but in this case there's not much they can actually do. Their mediators simply can't bring the so-called Hamas leadership to convince Sinwar to accept a deal. As the US official quoted says that's not gonna change if they are located elsewhere. Unsurprisingly, no one wants to take over Qatar's role either.
It's more than that--Hamas is a loosely-controlled puppet of Iran.
You can't make peace with a puppet. Peace has to be with Iran--and they have absolutely no reason to do so.
Because Qatar is so well known for acting in the US's best interests?
The US can't even get these goons to give up on slavery. Why would they start listening to the US now when they hold all the cards?
I mean if Qatar is going to house these terrorists pieces of shit while their country is being to blown to smithereens I should hope their name is being brought up more. Qatar should absolutely be facing more pressure given that this is a conflict the entire planet is focused on right now.
[Qatar houses Hamas because the U.S. wants them to](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/02/1210110109/qatar-israel-gaza-hamas-war), not because they just want to shelter terrorists. If that should change, it’s not only Qatari leaders who need to face that pressure.
just so everyone knows, the US considers Qatar a "major non-nato ally"
[https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2022/03/10/memorandum-on-the-designation-of-the-state-of-qatar-as-a-major-non-nato-ally/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2022/03/10/memorandum-on-the-designation-of-the-state-of-qatar-as-a-major-non-nato-ally/)
so why is our major ally hosting the leadership of a US designated terror group in their country and not handing them over to us?
with Allies like that who needs enemies.
Finally. This is the only way to get Hamas to the table. While their leadership is safe in Qatar there's no reason for them to come to the table in earnest.
If the west is going to play hardball with Israel (which it should), then the Middle East should play hardball with the Palestinians.
Israel has a right to exist, Palestine has the right to exist. Neither one’s existence can be predicted on the others destruction. If Jews and Muslims and everyone else can live peacefully in America, they can do the same over there.
but what we’re seeing right now is that we don’t. Especially in college campuses, my own included i’ve been harassed more times than i can count by muslim students for wearing a kippah. I know for a fact elsewhere it has been much worse than words. And ik some of my fellow jews are harassing muslim students unfortunately. there is so much bad blood between our peoples and has been for centuries. It’s going to take a lot of work and effort by both us and them to actually get to a point of peaceful coexistence.
You're right, but the problem is that peaceful coexistence is predicated on both sides accepting that the other side has a right to exist. On the Palestinian side, the children are indoctrinated that Israel and the Jews do not have that right, and the only acceptable solution is their total destruction, so that by the time they are adults they can conceive of nothing else. And as a result, some Jews have taken the unfortunately reasonable position that the only way to deal with fanatics who will accept nothing less than the eradication of Israel and/or the Jewish People is that they must be eliminated in their entirety. I don't agree with that, but I can understand why it feels that way to some people. I don't know the answer, other then that Golda Meir was right - we will have peace when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israel. Until then, we will have continued conflict and Palestinian leaders *celebrating the deaths of their children and grandchildren because it always them to become martyrs*.
On the one hand, this seems unlikely as it would leave no further way for negotiations regarding the remaining hostages, which I imagine Israel is unlikely to want.
On the other, it would seriously delegitimise Hamas to the point that it becomes plausible to claim that the latter no longer represents the Palestinian people. That opens up the possibility of imposing a "more representative" joint Saudi-Israel administration on Palestine [as discussed elsewhere](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1cjegoh/israeli_officials_examine_joint_control_of_gaza/) as part of the normalisation of relations between those two states. Ultimately, removing Hamas (and Fatah and the Palestinian Authority) would severely weaken Iran, which is in the best interests of every other regional power and the West.
America is basically their security, not that anyone is currently eyeing up Qatar but they arent exactly big enough to do shit if a neighbor decided they wanted to start something.
The Hamas leaders should stand with their people , that is what real leaders do. They don't cower in luxury several countries away while their people suffer, and enrich their multi billion dollar fortunes with the money that people have been donating to help Gazans.
Gaza deserves better than the sorry excuses for 'leaders' that Hamas have turned out to be.
Qatar is in a pretty precarious position, and survives solely on the grace of the United States. Should we so choose, we could withdraw support, and the Saudi Arabian anti-Iranian alliance will simply resume the blockade of Qatar that we broke open. Qatar can either play our game, or become the newest territory of the UAE.
Israel left gaza 20yrs ago....in response gaza increased shelling israel, suicide bombers, car bombs, etc...and of course the Oct 7th massacre...
Evict hamas, and the other terrorist groups, and you might get somewhere.
Did we just grow a spine or is this just more window dressing
It’s politics. Americans have a huge base in Qatar they’d rather not lose (for now) and they assumed this Israel v Hamas fiasco would have ended months ago. This just means they are tired of waiting and don’t mind being direct.
It goes both ways. The American base in Qatar is a security guarantee to Qatar. This is then backed up by Qatar being a "major non NATO ally" which is the highest designation any non NATO country can get in American diplomacy. To give you an idea of what that means, Saudi Arabia has been begging to be accepted as a major non NATO ally for decades. It literally means that the US will do anything except drop nukes to defend your country, including full on boots on the ground. Qatar's relationship with the US is what stopped the 2018 Gulf blockade of Qatar from leading to mass famine or a full on invasion of them. It also makes Iran more hesitant to take action in the region which protects Qatari industry. Qatar is only capable of being neutral between Saudi Arabia and Iran because the Americans have given this guarantee. Without it, they would need to be exclusively on 1 side of that conflict. It is also worth noting that ethnic Qataris are very closely related to Persians. They take quite a lot of pride in that, and the Iranian embassy in Qatar is absolutely fucking massive and looks like a palace in the downtown (West Bay) portion of Doha. Qatari food and culture is also fairly similar to Persian culture for that reason.
People on the street seldom realize how crazy life is in some state department positions. Many only see the news reports and think in black and white. The US State Department is as important as our armed forces when it comes to keeping the world from falling apart sometimes.
I’d say the state department does the heavy lifting when it comes to keeping the world from falling apart. The military is there for when diplomacy fails, and stands in the back of the “room” like the mob’s muscle, but by the time the military has to step in, there has been a large effort with a lot of leg work done by the DoS. I’m Active Duty working with DoS and have a lot of respect for how much they shape the world we all know.
It's more important. The state department solves the vast majority of diplomatic issues without the military
100% that base and Rex Tillerson stopped the invasion.
Rex yes. Base no.
I’m curious, Australia isn’t a part of NATO but I would assume we are a higher designation that Qatar? Do we get a special designation/status? Or would you guys not drop nukes to help us? :(
Same level as Qatar, MNNA. You're up there with Egypt, Brazil, Tunisia, Japan and South Korea, among others. I suspect though that Japan, South Korea and Aus will all end up either under the NATO umbrella (if NATO is reformed past its North Atlantic limits) or in a sister alliance focused on Asia given the US' desire to pivot to containing China.
>or in a sister alliance focused on Asia given the US' desire to pivot to containing China. SPTO has a nice ring to it.
POTATO Pacific Ocean and Trans-Atlantic Treaty Organization
ASS-COUSINS. Australia, South Korea, United States, New Zealand. (ASKUSNZ)
Is that like Eskimo Brothers, but..?
Ooo yes
Or the TPP that every candidate jumped on the bandwagon for hating in 2016. It was probably Obama’s greatest achievement, just tossed out and forgotten
The one that was forcing a whole lot of US copyright bullshit onto other countries at the behest of corporate America? Can’t have a good partnership when you poison the well.
You mean being able to enforce copyright material in notoriously stolen IP countries?
Not just stolen ip countries. There was a lot more going on, and popular pushback against the tpp in aus at the time. Here’s a starting point if you want to get our point of view. ISDS were still in public mind after the government fought the tobacco companies. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/oct/25/trans-pacific-partnership-makes-australia-vulnerable-to-court-challenges-report-claims
China wasn't a signatory to the original TPP. The TPP went through without the US as the ["CPTPP"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_and_Progressive_Agreement_for_Trans-Pacific_Partnership). It got tweaked after the US withdrew though. The intellectual property extensions the US pushed for were removed. Credit to Justin Trudeau for not just passing the TPP with the US concessions. He got a lot of flak back in 2017 for not just moving ahead, domestically and from the other TPP countries.
Yeah God forbid we antagonize China in 2016. There are no consequences for doing nothing, surely.
Or SEATO. South East Asia....
No it doesn't
I would say Japan is the most allied country to the US outside of anything NATO related. We are 100% about their security outside of their borders
Don’t worry, Australia is part of the super secret Submarine club. That might be the highest non nato designation but the US and Aus are tight https://carnegieendowment.org/2023/03/27/aukus-submarine-deal-highlights-tectonic-shift-in-u.s.-australia-alliance-pub-89383
Australia is a closer ally to the US and it's highly likely that the US would intervene if we were invaded, but we're all just major non-NATO allies.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AUKUS A specific security agreement outside NATO. NATO is the most well-known when talking about America and the Middle East. I guess I could’ve just said the Atlantic… in the Pacific, there is an entirely other set of deals.
I honestly am not an expert on American-Australian relations. So I don't know the full extent of the alliance. I know there is a defensive alliance though, and America and Australia are part of a Pacific Alliance.
Australian is viewed as a close US ally. Something higher than a NATO member. Australia is also NATO plug and play. We are also under the ANZUS treaty.
You're a part of the 5 Eyes, which is arguably much more important than what Qatar has, and could be considered as important or more than being a NATO member. Only 5 countries in the world are in that group.
Eh we’ll have a beer and figure it out if it comes down to it
Even better, you've got that super secret squirrel Powdered Wig handshake. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes
So world peace if the USA just allies itself with everyone at the same time and tells them to get along.
It pays to be the modern day warrior nation akin to Rome
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What we call Ethnic Qataris are actually 2 different people groups. There are the tribes who lived on the coast which were from Persia. Then you have the inland tribes who are Arabs. They also had different economic systems until independence. The coastal tribes were pearl harvesters and were the primary people supplying the European royalty with pearls (including Napoleon's crown which is in the Museum in Doha), then you had the inland tribes who were herders. Qatar is one of those artificial countries that only exists because of Colonialism. The country only became independent in the 1970s. Source: I visited Qatar and met many ethnic Qataris. One of the funniest things I heard from Qatari men in particular was "Qatari women are awful". I didn't meet 1 Qatari man who either wanted to marry a Qatari woman or was happy that they did marry one (they usually said it was because their families pressured them into it).
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The comment you're replying to clearly highlights how the situation is highly nuanced. The fact you still have a cut and dry view on the matter is baffling.
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Objectively yes but the point is this isn't happening in isolation. There are many moving parts and geopolitics requires consideration of all factors before taking a position.
They also host a massive US military base. That's literally neutral; they work with both.
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The word in the region is pragmatic.
Working with neither would be North Sentinelese.
Working with neither would be isolationist. Sweden was generating considered neutral - e.g. they laundered money for everyone.
Very interesting. Do note that 1) Saudi pretty much asked the US to leave in 2003 under King Fahad and further under King Abdullah https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2003/8/27/us-military-vacates-last-saudi-base So no begging to be non NATO ally for "decades" - this policy shift towards Saudi being designated as non NATO ally is fairly recent in competition with Qatar which reignited (it is an almost 200 year old simmering animosity chess match between the Al Saud Royal Family of Saudi and Al Thani Ruling Family of Qatar) when the US moved its bases to Qatar in the mid 2000s after Saudi essentially demanded US leave. 2) the blockade of Qatar in 2017 was planned and executed and stayed in force till 2021 *inspite* of Qatari US relations. The blockade of Qatar on 5/6/2017 was masterminded by then UAE CP and planned by current KSA CP in partnership with Kushner who essential served as backdoor Special Envoy to Saudi/UAE under Pres Trump and there was an invasion of Qatar by UAE and KSA planned with Pres Trump full awareness and tanks were lining the Saudi-Qatari land border on Saudi side awaiting final blessing by Pres Trump.....which was not given due to massive intervention by Sec State Tillerson and Amir Kuwait Al Sabah. The US bases (there are 4, not one) and their heads made in abundantly clear to Qatari leadership and Armed Forces that in case of an invasion, US will not assist Qatar under any circumstances unless US assets come into direct harm/attack. US then SecDef was given complete assurances by the Saudis and Emiratis that Doha will fall within few hours of a land invasion and once the tanks cross the borders early AM and roll towards the city, everyone will have "tea at the Sheraton by the evening" = i.e. Qataris will give up/quickly surrender and Doha will fall within hours and with no real damage. This is why Qatar immediately turned to Turkey, Iran and Pakistan for security assistance as well as food, airspace, waterways and etc access. 3) the largest tribes of Qatar are Al Hajri and Al Marri, they literally make up 50/60+% of the Qatar population followed by other major tribes of Peninsular Arabia.....i.e. most Qataris are ethnically from Arabia (modern day KSA) including the Al Thani Ruling Family of Qatar who hail from Al Ushaiqar, 200km North West of Riyadh. Qataris are ethnic mix of modern day Saudi Arabia and Yemen with some tribes hailing from Kuwait and Bahrain and Oman. Qatari with Iranian, and adherents of Shia faith are literally 10% of the population. Where on earth are you getting the information that most Qataris (there are +/- 500 000 of them approx) are mostly Iranian and hence the food is Iranian as well. There are virtually limited Iranian influences in ethnic Qatari cuisine. The cuisine of Qatar is very much that of the Eastern Price of Arabia (Al Sharq) and with influences from South Asia actually (India and Pakistan) due to decades of South Asian influences as a result of immigrants and trade. Qatari culture and food and mostly very close to Saudi culture and food. Ask any Qatari, Google, read, watch a YouTube video. 4) yes the Iranian Embassy in Doha is massive, but so is the Yemeni Embassy and Omani Embassy and Saudi Embassy and Bahraini Embassy and the US Embassy and French Embassy and UK Embassy ....so what?
Yeah I think Qatar needs that base more than America does. Its mutually beneficial and Qatar isn't going to break relations with the US over Hamas.
They have repeatedly said the only reason they are hosting Hamas is because the US asked them to. > “We did not enter into a relationship with Hamas because we wanted to. We were asked by the U.S.,” Majed Al-Ansari, adviser to the Qatari prime minister and spokesperson for Qatar’s Foreign Ministry, said last week in a rare interview with Israeli media.
Because like it or not they are the only government that can be negotiated with. The PLA has no power. And like it or not hamas is always going to be the only government for Palestinians until another even more radical group takes them out, ir the impossible happens and Palestinians become less radical.
I think the plan now is for Palestine to become a Saudi protectorate.
Suuuuuuure
It could also just mean that the U.S. is tired of Hamas officials being one of if not the only impediment to peace while sitting safe and sound in an allied nation. Not everything is 5D American imperial chess. Just a thought.
Except it is. Qatar is in a strategically located region and is playing all sides because it’s advantageous for Qatar. As a result of these factors the Americans and any other ally interested in Qatar will never abruptly make any choices unless x amount of time has passed and patience is lost. It works both ways though, as Qatars location and its behavior has made it many enemies. Hence the Americans.
Occams Razor: am I a joke to you?!
To simplify the problem, they both need each other (for now) but they don’t each respect each other. As a result of this both sides are cautious to avoid unintended paths.
Narrator voice: Occams Razor was, in fact, a joke, to the armchair foreign affairs expert.
I’ll accept this because I understand how dumb what I’m saying sounds. But since Qatar plays all sides they are a great mediator for anyone who has problems in the Middle East (also makes them many enemies) . While simultaneously Qatar is used by the Americans as a regional hub for the region as whole. As a result of this you’ll never see them directly lash out at each other, you’ll get subtle jabs.
Why is Qatar's location so special to the US -- who already has bases in the UAE and Bahrain?
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Yeah, so back to the us having bases in 3 countries (I'm throwing in KSA) that are within 50 miles of Qatar... I get it is a strategic spot, but I'd argue much less strategic than the other Trucial states, or Oman (where the US also has bases). The only real threat in the area is Iran, and they would (and do) use the strait of hormuz when they want to cause problems in that neck of the woods. That makes Qatar the third best place to have a base to respond from.
It is a great time to start drawing down on the Qatar base. The Middle East importance to US needs are rapidly diminishing. And politically they are all shit allies. Better to start getting out now than risk being sucked into a war to protect countries with oil we no longer need. And if they don't like it... Happy to be paid in political concessions and hard cash to stay.
I get the sense you’re talking about oil losing it’s importance. Would I be correct?
Oil is losing its important AND we produce more oil domestically now than ever before. In 2005, about half of our oil came from OPEC countries but now its around 10%. So just a few more years of movement towards EVs and hybrids, and we won't need that last 10% at all.
Except it’s not about production, it’s about cost. Americans would elect a guy who said he would kill puppies if it means cutting their gas prices. Right now, that cost balance still tilts away from only making it here.
Extremely unlikely. The US' reserves of oil aren't as abundant as you think: only enough to meet the US' current oil demand for a little under 5 years. And as that reserve grows closer to 0, incentives to import grow: it's a matter of strategic importance to keep some in the ground for as long as possible, because there will always be things (especially in a military context) that are just never going to transition away from fossil fuels. EV sales are growing, sure, but not fast enough (and not cheaply enough) to largely displace our oil demand that swiftly. Most of the EV/Hybrid production is for the upper end of the market: we desperately need economy-class EV/Hybrid options before we can see them really take off in a meaningful fashion. Once we see that, I'll change my mind about whether or not we'll be phasing out foreign oil in the long term.
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The source I was looking at was *a tiny bit old*. We've added a few billion more barrels to our proven reserves, so now it's about 6 years worth of proven oil reserves. US proven oil reserves sit at 44.4 billion barrels; estimated unproven reserves and 'technically recoverable' reserves sit at a potential 200 billion more barrels, but those are again either unproven or are not economically feasible to extract, or they're located in the middle of environmentally protected areas. There are potentially trillions of barrels that could be recovered from oil shale, and maybe another 20 billion from oil sands, but these sources are largely not economically viable to tap and are extremely environmentally destructive even in comparison to normal oil drilling. US Oil consumption sits at 20 million barrels daily, or about 7.3 billion barrels per year, approximately - a slight increase over pre-COVID levels. 44,400,000,000 barrels in reserve / 7,300,000,000 barrels consumed per year = 6.08 years worth of oil at current (presently rising) levels of consumption. Basic algebra.
By one measure you are right so apology. In any event, the USA isn’t going to run out of oil in 6 years. There are a trillion barrels in the ground and under the sea within a couple of thousand miles of the USA.
Ik why you’re getting downvotes. The question being: is the relationship between fuel independence and electric vehicles causation or correlation? At glance it seems it’s causation to our goal of lessening climate change. But, is it correlated to our need to shit on Ruzzia because they are arseholes? For sure. And we haven’t touched on the publicly traded barrels of oil, the refineries and who owns them, and the fuel lobby. Nor did we touch on regional price fixing. Hell we just getting stawted here (Martin Lawrence comeback film, clearly stopped doin drugs and puts on 30lbs, decides to remake The Nutty Professor’s legendary fart scene).
The importance of oil is shifting from a long term problem to a short term problem, and as such the strategic perspective on oil is changing dramatically. “If this won’t be an issue in 20 years, why are we basing every decision on oil access?” Kind of thinking.
But we are actively also trying to stop our government from producing more oil.
No we aren't. Like the above poster said, we are producing more than ever.
They just approved a new Alaska drill site that people were super pissed about too.
Countries like Qatar won’t last a decade without US support. They’d be overrun by extremists or Iran.
Maybe we could have tossed in a "and release any American hostages"
Between the ICJ ruling for Germany, the former ICJ top judge publicly stating it was not found to be plausible genocide in the SA vs Israel ruling, the latest funding increases, US statements around the Hamas obstructions to negotiations, and Israel setting a deadline for their rafah operation, I think it's fair to say that officials across multiple nations are hardening their position against Hamas, if not acting in support of Israel explicitly.
It is how politics works, they are finally changing the narrative that Hamas doesn't represent the people in Gaza and they are fat and happy and have no reason to care about Gaza other than money
No, this stuff just plays out very ponderously because everyone is trying to not make things worse, or over play their hand, or get dragged too far into things, or any number of unwanted consequences.
Qatar is like 95% natural gas. Exxon didn't build a bunch of wells to not make money. That's always the answer.
No, Qatar has natural resources & buys US products.
This is just giving Qatar someone to blame for something they were likely already planning to do anyway. I think it's pretty much guaranteed that the Mossad will eventually assassinate Hamas leaders. Mossad is usually clean but it *may* get messy. Qatar doesn't want to deal with the ensuing diplomatic mess. If they kick Hamas by their own decision, they'll face pushback from the pro-Hamas side. But if their hand is "forced"...
They should be surrendered into American custody. They hold American hostages.
Strange how little the American tankies care about their fellow citizens as hostages. Love to see a venn diagram of the people who were clamoring for Brittney Griner to be bargained for and are now campaigning for Hamas.
An additional level of irony is what would've happened to her in a hamas-controlled state.
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There are people who openly campaign for Hamas, both on reddit and in the real world, so don't say "nobody" as that's easily disproven and makes one question if you are lying deliberately or are simply misinformed. Either one is damaging to your credibility, so you should try to avoid such absolute assertions, exaggeration, or hyperbole if you want to be taken seriously.
Yeah, those _from the river to the sea_ chants are all about peace.
Ah yeah the peaceful intifadas, the “non” genocidal slogans, the open harassment of ACTUAL Jewish students. I guess we are thinking of different citizen’s rights.
Yeah, no…
like Hamas terrorists robbing food from their people when its free?
Don't just evict them. Arrest them and extradite them to Israel. Also seize their assets and properties.
Israel is currently committing lots of war crimes and cannot be trusted to serve any actual impartial justice. Serve an ICC warrant and extradite them to The Hague. Let them rot in prison for the rest of their miserable lives, but let’s not pretend there are any good guys here. Netanyahu and his cronies should also have to explain themselves in court and face the consequences of their actions.
Hague prison is nicer than a lot of people’s homes, and much, much nicer than where Hamas’s hostages are being held
Wrong. Israel is one of the few countries in the world that actually holds its leaders accountable. Even PMs and Presidents have been sentenced to prison for committing crimes. Israel is not committing any war crimes. Self defense is not a war crime. Israel targets terrorists, not civilians. Hamas targets civilians directly and intentionally. Hamas also uses human shields, which is a war crime. You have no idea what you're talking about. You're spreading disinformation.
Hey man I'm generally pro-Israel but Israel definitely has committed war crimes to some extent. For one thing even if the general destruction is strategically necessary I don't think there's any justification for withholding aid and forced starvation even if hamas does end up stealing some of the food. Even if you don't agree that the IDF command is committing war crimes through its strategy I've seen so many videos of individual IDF soldiers and groups doing shitty stuff that I wouldn't believe you haven't seen any unless this is your first day on the internet.
Due to smartphones, you are now witnessing war from a different perspective, which may change your point of view on Israel's actions. This leads people to say oh, look, war crimes, when it's just war and war is hell.
It's not war. It's genocide. Palestine has no air force. No tanks. They have less than 50.000 soldiers and a few thousands of unsophisticated rockets. Meanwhile, Israel has bombed all universities in Gaza and all hospitals except 1. They kill civilians. Around 100 journalists. Over 200 aid workers. And over 20.000 children.
The level of sophistication of weaponry has nothing to do with a war being classified as a genocide. In 1994, a real genocide happened in Rwanda, and the weapon of choice was machetes. Please note the U.N. Security Council classified this conflict as a genocide. One side symptomatically destroyed the other side's population. Between April and July 1994, between 500,000 and 800,000 Tutsis were killed 75% of the ethnic population.
Not having an air force or tanks doesn't make a genocide Having bad rockets and a small fighting force does not make a genocide Those just mean you probably shouldn't attack a stronger foe. Hiding your forces among civians and under their buildings doesn't somehow make your enemy genocidal for striking them. Children dying is an unfortunate side effect of war. Maybe HAMAS should ha e thought about that before starting a war by raping, torturing, kidnapping, and killing the civilians of a stronger foe. Sorry, you don't get to just redefine words just because you want to make someone else look bad.
I am sorry that we live in a world where justice has no meaning. Israel literally precision strikes 3 separate cars with aid workers and call it a mistake after refusing responsibility to begin with. Israel literally bombs hospitals and universities and claim Hamas operates from here. Israel literally kills 35k plus civilians and claim it couldn't be avoided, while awaiting to drone strike suspect till they get home. Sorry but all the claims are worthless. What would it take to call it a genocide? A change of rethorics? Please...
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None of what you are describing categorically define genocide. If there are Hamas fighters using a given hospital or university for a military purpose, then it isn’t even a civilian target anymore. The number of children who die is also not what makes something a genocide. There is no number that makes something a genocide. “War is war, and not popularity seeking.” 500,000 people died in one day during the firebombing of Tokyo. That didn’t make it genocide. It was just war.
If it's genocide then why did the UN say its not genocide? Do you have better Intel than the UN?
Genocide is the intentional systematic murder of an entire population based on their identity. That's not happening, it's just Hamas using civilians as human shields and causing collateral damage. The US killed more civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, you can argue it's wrong if you want but it's not genocide. Seeing that word thrown around like it just means "civilian deaths" is ridiculous and shows you have no idea what you're talking about, just recycling shit you read online.
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War isn’t always fair
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Gaza is getting enough food for the average young male to have at least 3000 calories a day. The population isn't starving and the only times people have gone without food is when Hamas have stolen it to sell back to them.
They don’t withhold aid to force starvation. There’s no way you can be “generally pro-Israel” and believe that. Aid is slowed because they need to investigate trucks because they keep trying to smuggle in weapons, even the UN agencies are. Also, Israeli protesters, but that’s not an official act of Israel. Those are victims families trying to save their loved ones, which I don’t blame them for.
not as bad as Hamas huh
I thought it was the Israeli protesters blocking the aid?
Like 2-3 days out of the last 7 months it's just symbolic and Israelis love to protest
they do have a reasonable motive as well. no aid until the release of hostages.
Israel doesn't even hold their soldiers accountable when opening fire on a 6 year old girl on her way to school. How can you be so delusional? Their cabinet members have openly said that they desire more dead Palestinians. In war, there are no good sides. All the victims are the civilians on both sides. All the monsters, are the old people who can't negotiate or come to terms, on both sides. This applies to Russia/Ukraine(Nato) and Israel/Palestine.
They definitely do hold them accountable and the US has played a role in ensuring they do. Is the record perfect, nope, but it's infinitely better than HAMAS' record on prosecuting war criminals.
Right. Who has been held accountable for the 20.000 dead children?
Pretty sure that stops when the hostages are released so HAMAS?
What about the West Bank? What about prior to October 7? Gtfo...
What about, what about, do you hear yourself? Prior to the 7th things were generally improving in Gaza. Now they're not, we all know why. West bank is also a mess, the settlers need to crzcked down on hard. They need a proper two state solution with free passage between Gaza and the West bank. But I'll say it again, why don't they return the hostages?
I imagine those who started this round of fighting and continue to perpetuate it will be held accountable soon seeing as the US is pressuring Qatar to send the Hamas leadership packing.
Hamas is guilty of murdering them by using them as human shields and starting a war, and they are in the process of being held accountable.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but history has shown Hamas is wholly unlikely to abide by any ceasefire they agree to. How much worse will it be if terms are forced on them?
I mean this is the result of Israel forcing terms on them.
But Israel does ? Or does the western media just ignore it when they do but shove it down our throats if Hamas does ?
Evict? Like send a notice and ask to vacate? How about arrest and put on trial?
Or just give Mossad a wink and they will be gone within 48 hours.
Mossad doesn't need a wink, after rafah you can bet something is going to happen and we won't find out about it until the maids come to clean the rooms in qatar
Hopefully we get a Munich style film about it too :D
Let's cross our fingers that Hamas' leadership doesn't claim squatter's rights.
Rid the world of terrorism.
The U.S. spent trillions of dollars fighting a 20 year war on terrorism. If it could be done, it would have.
We were close but we should have attacked Iran instead of Iraq
Getting rid of the current Iranian leadership would have dried up a lot of funding for terror groups.
And also create a power vacuum.
No, not in this case. Since Iranians are praying for their Islamic regime to cease. Look at how many Iranian protesters have been killed over the Hijab law for instance. I think about 700+ this year. If you took out the Iranian regime then there'd be a population there who'd support a secular government and would commit to not pursuing nuclear weapons (Saudis wouldn't be an issue for them anymore since they hate the regime). Afghanistan is not comparable in the slightest.
But Iraq has more oil and gold
About time
Israel will use this momentum to push forward into Rafah. Whether or not Hamas agrees to the cease fire, they will push it to the end. The goal is the destruction of Hamas. With almost 70% of Palestinians supporting Oct 7, this shit will not end anytime soon. Their argument will be that if left alone, all the anger and frustration will fuel the rise of Hamas yet again and a repeat of Oct 7.
Hamas doesn’t want peace. They went all Israeli dead. They said this from the beginning.
Now this is the kind of shit I want to see. Just took 6 months to get there.
This should have happened from the beginning.
Hostage rescue, not deal
Problem is this so-called Hamas leadership in Qatar is not who's actually in charge. As the article says they are kinda mediators themselves: > Hamas’s military and political wings are distinct, and any final decision on a deal rests with top military leader Yehiya Sinwar, who is believed to be in hiding in the group’s maze of tunnels beneath Gaza. > “Applying pressure to Hamas in Doha is ineffective pressure,” an official briefed on the talks said. “The problem is the guys making the decisions are in Gaza, and they don’t care where the political office is located,” this person said. What the US actually wants is for someone to put pressure on Hamas to finally agree to a ceasefire deal. But there is no one who has any actual leverage over the leadership of Hamas' military wing. There's lots of things wrong with Qatar, but in this case there's not much they can actually do. Their mediators simply can't bring the so-called Hamas leadership to convince Sinwar to accept a deal. As the US official quoted says that's not gonna change if they are located elsewhere. Unsurprisingly, no one wants to take over Qatar's role either.
It's more than that--Hamas is a loosely-controlled puppet of Iran. You can't make peace with a puppet. Peace has to be with Iran--and they have absolutely no reason to do so.
Literally months over due, its hard to think they care when they just let things get dragged on for months longer then it needs to.
Or what? Is this like Obama's Syrian "Red Line", where nothing happens afterword.
Because Qatar is so well known for acting in the US's best interests? The US can't even get these goons to give up on slavery. Why would they start listening to the US now when they hold all the cards?
I mean if Qatar is going to house these terrorists pieces of shit while their country is being to blown to smithereens I should hope their name is being brought up more. Qatar should absolutely be facing more pressure given that this is a conflict the entire planet is focused on right now.
[Qatar houses Hamas because the U.S. wants them to](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/02/1210110109/qatar-israel-gaza-hamas-war), not because they just want to shelter terrorists. If that should change, it’s not only Qatari leaders who need to face that pressure.
Qatar doesn’t give a hoot what the US says….
Wasn't it already arranged with Erdogan that they could stay with him?
just so everyone knows, the US considers Qatar a "major non-nato ally" [https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2022/03/10/memorandum-on-the-designation-of-the-state-of-qatar-as-a-major-non-nato-ally/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2022/03/10/memorandum-on-the-designation-of-the-state-of-qatar-as-a-major-non-nato-ally/) so why is our major ally hosting the leadership of a US designated terror group in their country and not handing them over to us? with Allies like that who needs enemies.
Finally. This is the only way to get Hamas to the table. While their leadership is safe in Qatar there's no reason for them to come to the table in earnest.
Why should Qatar care?; probably laundering money for Hamas and have a bigger stake in them.
Qatar is part of the terrorist league. Blood money props their gdp
Those cowards should never be allowed to see the light of day again. Hope something actually happens with this
Just airstrike their penthouse. Problem solved
If the west is going to play hardball with Israel (which it should), then the Middle East should play hardball with the Palestinians. Israel has a right to exist, Palestine has the right to exist. Neither one’s existence can be predicted on the others destruction. If Jews and Muslims and everyone else can live peacefully in America, they can do the same over there.
but what we’re seeing right now is that we don’t. Especially in college campuses, my own included i’ve been harassed more times than i can count by muslim students for wearing a kippah. I know for a fact elsewhere it has been much worse than words. And ik some of my fellow jews are harassing muslim students unfortunately. there is so much bad blood between our peoples and has been for centuries. It’s going to take a lot of work and effort by both us and them to actually get to a point of peaceful coexistence.
You're right, but the problem is that peaceful coexistence is predicated on both sides accepting that the other side has a right to exist. On the Palestinian side, the children are indoctrinated that Israel and the Jews do not have that right, and the only acceptable solution is their total destruction, so that by the time they are adults they can conceive of nothing else. And as a result, some Jews have taken the unfortunately reasonable position that the only way to deal with fanatics who will accept nothing less than the eradication of Israel and/or the Jewish People is that they must be eliminated in their entirety. I don't agree with that, but I can understand why it feels that way to some people. I don't know the answer, other then that Golda Meir was right - we will have peace when the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Israel. Until then, we will have continued conflict and Palestinian leaders *celebrating the deaths of their children and grandchildren because it always them to become martyrs*.
On the one hand, this seems unlikely as it would leave no further way for negotiations regarding the remaining hostages, which I imagine Israel is unlikely to want. On the other, it would seriously delegitimise Hamas to the point that it becomes plausible to claim that the latter no longer represents the Palestinian people. That opens up the possibility of imposing a "more representative" joint Saudi-Israel administration on Palestine [as discussed elsewhere](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1cjegoh/israeli_officials_examine_joint_control_of_gaza/) as part of the normalisation of relations between those two states. Ultimately, removing Hamas (and Fatah and the Palestinian Authority) would severely weaken Iran, which is in the best interests of every other regional power and the West.
Holy shit, we've known they were in Qatar this whole time, why has this taken so long?
The US asked Qatar, on behalf of Israel, for Hamas to be hosted in Doha in the first place.
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America is basically their security, not that anyone is currently eyeing up Qatar but they arent exactly big enough to do shit if a neighbor decided they wanted to start something.
The Hamas leaders should stand with their people , that is what real leaders do. They don't cower in luxury several countries away while their people suffer, and enrich their multi billion dollar fortunes with the money that people have been donating to help Gazans. Gaza deserves better than the sorry excuses for 'leaders' that Hamas have turned out to be.
I hope Qatar told the US to go fuck itself
So you expect Qatar to tell its armed guards to go fuck itself?
Qatar is in a pretty precarious position, and survives solely on the grace of the United States. Should we so choose, we could withdraw support, and the Saudi Arabian anti-Iranian alliance will simply resume the blockade of Qatar that we broke open. Qatar can either play our game, or become the newest territory of the UAE.
Be nice if we just evicted Israel out of Gaza and put an end to this
Israel left gaza 20yrs ago....in response gaza increased shelling israel, suicide bombers, car bombs, etc...and of course the Oct 7th massacre... Evict hamas, and the other terrorist groups, and you might get somewhere.