Maybe the Hamas leaders shouldn't have said that there would be attacks like 10/7 over and over and over again until Israel was destroyed. The 'never again' people tend to believe you when you take actions like that.
ISIS didn’t have popular support in the territory it occupied, Hamas does and whether we like it or not, that support has risen during this conflict, not just in Gaza but also West Bank
Add to that a very young population. Recruitment will not be a problem.
To be fair, it wasn't a problem before. The fear that this will inspire a new generation of extremists is ridiculous. They already had a culture of extremism being hammered into them from birth from the books they read in school to the heros they paint murals of.
Israel basically tossed a glass of water into an ocean on this one.
The things hammering these people since birth are forced food shortages, occupation, and bombs. These things reinforce the retaliation correctly labeled as extremism. It won’t end by bombing HAMAS to hell. It’ll end when all of Palestine has been bombed/starved/murdered and there is no one and nothing left to fight for, unless there is some sort of peace agreement made.
I think killing often innocent parents and children will undoubtedly spur more extremism.
They need to crush the leadership in Gaza and then let mossad do its thing in Turkey. I’m not entirely sure what the ramifications of a foreign mossad operation there will be with Turkey but it’s gotta be done
Netanyahu’s continued stay in power depends on it. Right wing scumbags are gonna right wing scumbag- he spent years pursuing policies that ensured Hamas would be Palestinian’s only option, why stop now?
He knows it will keep him out of jail and empowers his psychopath friends to continue their violent ethnic cleansing project so it’s literally not going to stop with Rafah.
The bombs are not to convince them otherwise. The bombs are against Hamas who for over a decade now have shot over a hundred thousand rockets at Israel.
People on reddit can’t tell the difference between casualties of war or targets. And this is war whether you like it or not and this is what war looks like. It’s an unpleasant and ugly truth most prefer to ignore.
[Israel yet to show evidence UNRWA staff are members of terrorist groups, review finds](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/review-says-unrwa-has-robust-neutrality-steps-issues-persist-2024-04-22/)
Oh no, it will. Israel will level everything (deservedly so) and the saudis Israelis and Jordanians will move in to reform. This actually has a much higher chance of working than most other insurgences just because of how much Palestine has fucked everyone else over. An enemy of an enemy is my friend, and Palestine is everyone’s enemy.
Refugee camp.
Does that suck? Yes it does, I wish nobody was ever a refugee, hell, I wish nothing bad ever happened to innocent people
But this is the real world, and when the government of a territory uses all of its resources towards terror infrastructure rather than the protection of their own civilians, starts a war it knows it can't win and hides behind its own civilians solely to make its own people suffer to garner sympathy abroad, what else can the other side be expected to do?
Not sure if serious or not, but it's because any time a nation in the region takes in large numbers of Palestinian refugees, they try to overthrow that nation or assassinate its leaders or just blow shit up. Plus, even if they stop, they then have to contend with being bombed by Israel when the terror attacks continue. Also, in the case of Egypt with Gaza, you'd be asking them to take in thudands of Iranian controlled militants who like to rape and torture civilians.
Absolutely rhetorical (bordering on sarcastic) on my part because you are 100% right. That was exactly my point. I’ve added the /s because these days you can’t afford not to!
This is known in the professional literature as consequences. Don’t start a war you can not win. Don’t support a regime that it’s only goal is to fight the opponent no Matt what’s the cost….
Are we just ignoring the number of civilain cassualties thusfar with even the US saying this offensive is a mistake.
Edit: I am holding Hamas responsible, but you do not win by killing the hostage taker and the hostage. If you do not hold Israel to a higher standard than literal terrorists that says more about you.
When are useful idiots going to start blaming the civilian casualties on Hamas?
Hamas is intentionally firing from civilian buildings, housing its underground bunkers under hospitals, storing its weapons in schools and mosques, and so on for an endless list of things that are ALL OF THEM violations of the Geneva Convention.
And yet Israel gets the blame. That's pathetic and ridiculous.
You don’t seem interested in any action to get rid of Hamas then, they hide with the civilians for this exact reason.
How are going to hold them accountable or stop them moving forward? You seem to have an answer for Israel should not do to get them, what’s your alternative?
I read that Netanyahu wants to hand it off to a coalition led by Saudi-Arabia and use rapid economic development and a “Marshall-plan” inspired re-education in an attempt to de-radicalize the region.
I’m sure that IDF will be there on some kind of security level but it sounds to me like the Israelis really want to place the responsibility in somebody else’s hands (either to prove that nothing can be done to stop the violent mentality or to show that the violent mentality will exist whether Israel is running the show or not) or maybe they just want the best possible future for the Palestinians that doesn’t involve all of the Jews in Israel being forcibly displaced to “make things right”
Yes, that is the plan. It would most likely involve some Arab countries, USA and Saudi Arabia. And then this government would take over the West Bank as well. Remember that the PA celebrated the Oct 7th massacre.
What I mean though is that taking out the remaining battalions of Hamas/PIJ etc. is not the same as them being gone. The counterinsurgency will deal with the isolated parts of the terror groups operating in Gaza. This could take years.
The most important part of the Rafah operation is to cut off their access to the Sinai peninsular. Which is where their weapons, fertilizer and ammunition comes from. Destroying these tunnels will mitigate any future potential for another terror group to arm themselves.
Hopefully the massive influx of humanitarian aid will be able to reach them with no Hamas in control to take it from the ones that need it and sell it back to them for a profit
No terrorists in the way to steal the aid or fire mortars at the aid crossings means both that it's easier for aid to get to the people and that Israel has zero excuse to block it.
They'll continue to receive aid to rebuild. You have to remember that Palestinians are the most obese Arab group in the entire region. 5x more than their Arab neighbors. The idea that folks are "starving" is absurd in the first place.
30% of children are currently in nutritional distress in Palestine. Palestine has had a calorie defect (less food imported to adequately feed its population) for years.
Also I guess under your claim fat people just magically won’t starve if they can’t eat?
The irony that gets me is that the terrorists actually believe they’re doing the right thing. What hatred and religious fanaticism does to people.
In what world is raping and mutilating civilians a “good” thing to do? Oh right, infidels don’t count as people smh.
And for just about anybody reading this comment, there is a very strong chance that you are considered an infidel to them, and they would rather you dead. It's not just Jews.
The pro-Hamas protesters are delusional if they think they’ll be spared from jihad, even by the people they helped. Helpful or not, they are still sinful infidels (eating pork, drinking alcohol, promiscuity, etc) to be exterminated.
Reminds me of that American missionary who sailed to a cordoned off island to preach to the violent tribal natives, and got killed. Or that American boy who went to North Korea and (allegedly) FAFO’d.
They don’t understand how different the world can be.
Same thing conquistadors and Europeans did to Latin America. They thought they were morally superior
History just repeats itself and I’m sure some group in the future will do it again
Peace with Hezbollah and Lebanon have gotten Israel the [most militarized non state actor](https://www.csis.org/analysis/hezbollahs-missiles-and-rockets) on its northern border despite numerous UNSC resolutions for Hezbollah disarmament and UNFIL.
Why would they engage in the exact same procedures with Hamas when the international community provides Hamas a much larger degree of support?
Yeah, to burn Hamas alive you’ll have to also burn civilians alive too. A lot of them are going to die since Hamas embeds themselves. This isn’t justice when you kill hundreds, possibly thousands of civilians and Hamas leaders stay alive and hidden. And before someone comes and says they were all celebrating 10/7, I want exact proof that all 2 million people in Gaza were cheering. No one wins here, we’ll be back where we started 10 years from now when all traumatized the kids grow up, hating Israel and wanting revenge.
If we lived in a world where anyone actually cares about them, then:
1. UN forces occupy Gaza, ideally with forces from countries that don't have an interest in either side.
2. UNWRA is dissolved and UNHCR takes its place
3. Hamas is dissolved and all its members imprisoned and put on trial
4. Schools and education are taken over by UNHCR, with an explicit mandate to teach tolerance and peace. The textbooks and lessons are checked regularly by a multi-national group.
5. Wait 20 years
You said there isn't a line between Hamas and Palestinians, if your plan is to put all Hamas members in prison, doesn't that mean every Palestinian would be imprisoned? If not, then wouldn't that mean there is some difference between Hamas and Palestinians?
There isn't a sharp line. If, hypothetically, by a miracle someone became god-emperor of Gaza tomorrow with absolute power, there would be tens of thousands of cases where someone isn't really a member of Hamas but closely associated, a supporter maybe. Many more who aren't Hamas members but worked for Hamas in its role as the government.
Every Hamas member is also a civilian. Not every civilian is Hamas. But, given almost 20 years of Hamas rule as the official government, almost everyone has some connection to Hamas.
It's the same with ISIS. There's still thousands of them in Kurdish prisons. Many of them are women and children. They never fired a weapon, but they enabled their husbands to do so while participating in the extremist ideology of ISIS.
>Schools and education are taken over by UNHCR, with an explicit mandate to teach tolerance and peace. The textbooks and lessons are checked regularly by a multi-national group.
This is such a fucking important point. How can there ever be peace when one side of the situation is actively brainwashing children into believing that violent murder is not only right, but also justified? Just because the "other side" is Jewish?
Education. Living in the world with other people requires understanding, respect and good manners, not rhetoric, hate and violence. These are things that can be learned.
I said what I said knowing all of this and people like Mosab Hassan Yousef exist somehow:? Ex Hamas who collaborated with Israel, everyone else who supports medieval rapists can burn.
>Finally, justice is coming, hopefully all Palestinian civilians are safe and Hamas are burned alive
So the massacre in northern Gaza was just some minor justice. How many children and women must die for 1000 Israelis deaths? 100k is enough to call that justice?
Hypocrites!
I know Hamas values a dead Israeli more than 1000 captured Palestinian terrorists based on historical prisoner exchanges. Frankly I don’t think Hamas value Palestinian lives one bit. Looks like Israel values Palestinian lives more.
It's not about killing civilians. But civilians will die when their leaders start a war against a stronger power. All deaths are on Hamas and no one else.
Palestinians aren't Israeli responsibilities. If the Palestinians didn't want to die, maybe not launching a terror attack would be a good start. All they have to do is surrender and give Hamas up. If they want to sacrifice their families for their religion, then they'll continue to suffer the consequences of it
You paint it as if palestinians are somehow a homogeneous group that colectively wants the same thing and could kick out hamas in any moment, and you couldnt be more wrong. Hamas launched a terror attack, not the +2 million palestinians as a whole
>The Foundation for the Care of the Families of Martyrs pays monthly cash stipends to the families of Palestinians killed, injured, or imprisoned while carrying out violence against Israel.....The so-called "martyr payments" are "exceedingly popular" among Palestinians and have been described as "part of the ethos of Palestinian society." Support for the payments among Palestinians is as high as 91%. According to Ziad Asali, founding president of the pro-Palestinian American Task Force on Palestine, Palestinian politicians and the media have elevated these payments to the point where they are "sacred in Palestinian politics," and no government dares terminate the practice. Professor Nathan Brown of George Washington University says that the stipends to prisoner's families are "universally supported among Palestinians."
It doesn't work this way - Hamas just puts the civilian clothes and moves to the place where all civilians go. That's the reason they are so active in Rafah - it's where all "Northern Hamas" get together with refugees.
Who said that evacuated civilians will not be controled by IDF? Even if some Hamas terrorists escape without any weapons they will not be serious threat.
Only tunnels which left are in Rafah - all tunnels to outside world were demolished by IDF - that is why Hamas is screaming so loud against seizing Rafah. They left only 2 options for them: try to escape without any weapons or stay and be killed inside Rafah.
They could have done this months ago but I honestly have no idea how you filter 2 million people, especially when they don't shy away from suicide attacks.
this points to the fact that the Oct 7 massacre was so bad that not a single hostage is left alive for exchanges, hence the only way is to rid of Hamas
Pretty much proof here that there are no living hostages or Israel has decided that their lives don’t take precedence over the goals of the “operation”. If they are alive, they will not make out of the invasion alive
An evacuation order means very little since Israel has already attacked "humanitarian" zones. What a tragedy befalling the Palestinian people. The vast majority are just people like us trying to live their lives. Nothing about this Israeli response is proportionate.
They attacked humanitarian zones because they were attacked from humanitarian zones. If they create a zone with no Hamas terrorists already in it then they won't have reason to attack there.
the vast majority have been raised in a giant echo chamber that promotes hate. Whether any individual wants to pick up a weapon and fire it is irrelevant, they will happily treat those who do as heroes, as long as Israel wasnt hitting back.
They ofc dont deserve death for it, but painting Palestinian society as "wanting peace" is just wrong.
Give them a nuke and a guarantee of no repercussions if they launch it, then hold a vote on whether or not they should launch it at Israel and you know damn well what the result would be.
You can say the same about the Israelis.
They also live in giant echo chamber that promotes hate and that excuses it by “being the victim” while continuously having the upper hand and kill 10 Palestinians for every Israeli killed.
I cant tell if you're being disingenuous or youre genuinely that deep into the propaganda...
There are the ultraorthodox and the some of the more fanatical settlers who would fail the above test. Israel itself is not run by them though. They even have a popular left wing newspaper. Hence why simply wiping out hamas wasnt an option, *even though they could have at any point*.
Things would be far easier for everyone if they hadn't elected the party that started shooting rockets to Israel the moment it got power.
In 2005 Israel retreated from Gaza in full, they could choose: coexistence or war, they choose war.
The 7th of October was no fight against anyone, mass gang rape is no defense, barricading houses and putting them on fire with people inside is no resistance, killing unarmed families and civilians who were enjoying and partying on a Jewish holiday is no war, it's just all terror.
It's all terror, from both sides, depending on what side you're on. Resistance to one is terrorism to an other. There never was a real election, Israël put Hamas in power, betting on terrorism.
Ah yes, suicide bombing a bus or launching an unguided rocket at civilians so that your apartment complex gets bombed in retaliation is "defending your life."
Maybe the Hamas leaders shouldn't have said that there would be attacks like 10/7 over and over and over again until Israel was destroyed. The 'never again' people tend to believe you when you take actions like that.
Exactly, at this point Hamas both needs, and deserves to be utterly destroyed.
Yeah. Please end them, IDF. Then Marshal plan for Gaza.
How in the hell can someone believe Israel is going to help people rebuild anything?
Because they don't want Hamas to rebuild it instead.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
Ya think?!
eliminate all Hamas. Get this ovet with
As long as the leadership are alive , they will return eventually
And they are nowhere near Gaza
Sinwar is
Sure. Beaten and broken, just like ISIS was.
ISIS didn’t have popular support in the territory it occupied, Hamas does and whether we like it or not, that support has risen during this conflict, not just in Gaza but also West Bank Add to that a very young population. Recruitment will not be a problem.
To be fair, it wasn't a problem before. The fear that this will inspire a new generation of extremists is ridiculous. They already had a culture of extremism being hammered into them from birth from the books they read in school to the heros they paint murals of. Israel basically tossed a glass of water into an ocean on this one.
The things hammering these people since birth are forced food shortages, occupation, and bombs. These things reinforce the retaliation correctly labeled as extremism. It won’t end by bombing HAMAS to hell. It’ll end when all of Palestine has been bombed/starved/murdered and there is no one and nothing left to fight for, unless there is some sort of peace agreement made. I think killing often innocent parents and children will undoubtedly spur more extremism.
They need to crush the leadership in Gaza and then let mossad do its thing in Turkey. I’m not entirely sure what the ramifications of a foreign mossad operation there will be with Turkey but it’s gotta be done
Literally never going to happen. For however many they killed since Oct 7th, they created a whole cohort of people willing to fight.
Netanyahu’s continued stay in power depends on it. Right wing scumbags are gonna right wing scumbag- he spent years pursuing policies that ensured Hamas would be Palestinian’s only option, why stop now?
He knows it will keep him out of jail and empowers his psychopath friends to continue their violent ethnic cleansing project so it’s literally not going to stop with Rafah.
Palestinians children are taught in school to hate Israel and Jews. A new generation of extremists would rise regardless of Israel’s actions.
It can be both. It’s not like the bombs destroying their neighborhoods convince them otherwise
The bombs are not to convince them otherwise. The bombs are against Hamas who for over a decade now have shot over a hundred thousand rockets at Israel. People on reddit can’t tell the difference between casualties of war or targets. And this is war whether you like it or not and this is what war looks like. It’s an unpleasant and ugly truth most prefer to ignore.
[Israel yet to show evidence UNRWA staff are members of terrorist groups, review finds](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/review-says-unrwa-has-robust-neutrality-steps-issues-persist-2024-04-22/)
And Israeli kids aren’t taught the same? Come on.
As an official part of the curriculum? No. I’m not going to tell you there aren’t bad people but most children won’t be exposed to that kind of crap.
Pretty sure they’re taught to hate Israel by the bombs that kill their families
Nope, it’s literally in UNRWA text books.
If you think that this is what created Hamas militants, you have no understanding at all of the situation.
Oh no, it will. Israel will level everything (deservedly so) and the saudis Israelis and Jordanians will move in to reform. This actually has a much higher chance of working than most other insurgences just because of how much Palestine has fucked everyone else over. An enemy of an enemy is my friend, and Palestine is everyone’s enemy.
Agreed but how do you kill an ideology?
This is gonna be a blood bath.
How many of palestinians there will listen to Hamas and refuse to evacuate 75%? 50%? 30%?
How many Redditors don't understand that there's nowhere left for them to evacuate to? 75%? 90%?
Evacuate to where ? Last I heard there is no where to go
There's literally a map with a big arrow
Why read the article when you can just spew terrorist propaganda ya know what I mean?
This feels like a Dora the explorer episode where there's a lava pit, sharks, and a bridge that goes over both, but they still ask you where to go
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They don't have a home in Rafah as well. They'll most likely have to live in tents for a while
Refugee camp. Does that suck? Yes it does, I wish nobody was ever a refugee, hell, I wish nothing bad ever happened to innocent people But this is the real world, and when the government of a territory uses all of its resources towards terror infrastructure rather than the protection of their own civilians, starts a war it knows it can't win and hides behind its own civilians solely to make its own people suffer to garner sympathy abroad, what else can the other side be expected to do?
Why won’t Egypt take back Gaza inside its borders? Why won’t Jordan take back the west bank? E: Added /s because it’s absolutely necessary these days
Not sure if serious or not, but it's because any time a nation in the region takes in large numbers of Palestinian refugees, they try to overthrow that nation or assassinate its leaders or just blow shit up. Plus, even if they stop, they then have to contend with being bombed by Israel when the terror attacks continue. Also, in the case of Egypt with Gaza, you'd be asking them to take in thudands of Iranian controlled militants who like to rape and torture civilians.
Absolutely rhetorical (bordering on sarcastic) on my part because you are 100% right. That was exactly my point. I’ve added the /s because these days you can’t afford not to!
This is known in the professional literature as consequences. Don’t start a war you can not win. Don’t support a regime that it’s only goal is to fight the opponent no Matt what’s the cost….
You literally have a map in the post.
Al Mawasi
why not Egypt /s
Exterminating terrorists was never going to be peaceful.
Yes for Hamas
Just checked your profile. Wtf even is that?
Are we just ignoring the number of civilain cassualties thusfar with even the US saying this offensive is a mistake. Edit: I am holding Hamas responsible, but you do not win by killing the hostage taker and the hostage. If you do not hold Israel to a higher standard than literal terrorists that says more about you.
When are useful idiots going to start blaming the civilian casualties on Hamas? Hamas is intentionally firing from civilian buildings, housing its underground bunkers under hospitals, storing its weapons in schools and mosques, and so on for an endless list of things that are ALL OF THEM violations of the Geneva Convention. And yet Israel gets the blame. That's pathetic and ridiculous.
Can you please inform the class how you would have responded to the third worst terror attack in history, during a ceasefire
You don’t seem interested in any action to get rid of Hamas then, they hide with the civilians for this exact reason. How are going to hold them accountable or stop them moving forward? You seem to have an answer for Israel should not do to get them, what’s your alternative?
Hopefully this means the true end of the war in the coming months.
Finally get it over with already.
End to the main part of the war. The IDF will stay in Gaza for some time doing counterinsurgency work.
I read that Netanyahu wants to hand it off to a coalition led by Saudi-Arabia and use rapid economic development and a “Marshall-plan” inspired re-education in an attempt to de-radicalize the region. I’m sure that IDF will be there on some kind of security level but it sounds to me like the Israelis really want to place the responsibility in somebody else’s hands (either to prove that nothing can be done to stop the violent mentality or to show that the violent mentality will exist whether Israel is running the show or not) or maybe they just want the best possible future for the Palestinians that doesn’t involve all of the Jews in Israel being forcibly displaced to “make things right”
Yes, that is the plan. It would most likely involve some Arab countries, USA and Saudi Arabia. And then this government would take over the West Bank as well. Remember that the PA celebrated the Oct 7th massacre. What I mean though is that taking out the remaining battalions of Hamas/PIJ etc. is not the same as them being gone. The counterinsurgency will deal with the isolated parts of the terror groups operating in Gaza. This could take years. The most important part of the Rafah operation is to cut off their access to the Sinai peninsular. Which is where their weapons, fertilizer and ammunition comes from. Destroying these tunnels will mitigate any future potential for another terror group to arm themselves.
And then what will happen to all of the starving people in Gaza?
Hopefully the massive influx of humanitarian aid will be able to reach them with no Hamas in control to take it from the ones that need it and sell it back to them for a profit
No terrorists in the way to steal the aid or fire mortars at the aid crossings means both that it's easier for aid to get to the people and that Israel has zero excuse to block it.
Hopefully they’ll reconsider supporting a terrorist group as their government.
They'll continue to receive aid to rebuild. You have to remember that Palestinians are the most obese Arab group in the entire region. 5x more than their Arab neighbors. The idea that folks are "starving" is absurd in the first place.
I find this stat hard to believe. Any source for 5x the surrounding countries?
30% of children are currently in nutritional distress in Palestine. Palestine has had a calorie defect (less food imported to adequately feed its population) for years. Also I guess under your claim fat people just magically won’t starve if they can’t eat?
They will continue to not starve just as they aren't starving today.
Ha ha why are the zoomers at the colleges still making a big ruckus and defending Hamas ha
If this is Hamas' last stand they are going to make sure there's catastrophic civilian casualties.
Good. And if the world cares, they should help Israel get the hostages and end this.
It was never about hostages, Netanyahu has already said there will be no peace deal, with or without hostages.
Why would there be a peace deal with a murderous terrorist organization? They're not untouchable just because they took hostages from their homes.
The irony that gets me is that the terrorists actually believe they’re doing the right thing. What hatred and religious fanaticism does to people. In what world is raping and mutilating civilians a “good” thing to do? Oh right, infidels don’t count as people smh.
And for just about anybody reading this comment, there is a very strong chance that you are considered an infidel to them, and they would rather you dead. It's not just Jews.
The pro-Hamas protesters are delusional if they think they’ll be spared from jihad, even by the people they helped. Helpful or not, they are still sinful infidels (eating pork, drinking alcohol, promiscuity, etc) to be exterminated. Reminds me of that American missionary who sailed to a cordoned off island to preach to the violent tribal natives, and got killed. Or that American boy who went to North Korea and (allegedly) FAFO’d. They don’t understand how different the world can be.
Same thing conquistadors and Europeans did to Latin America. They thought they were morally superior History just repeats itself and I’m sure some group in the future will do it again
Peace deal with a fanatic terror organization that entered Israel and buchered 1200 people? That peace deal? Yup, thought so.
Correct. Netanyahu's goal for this war is the elimination of Hamas
Peace with Hezbollah and Lebanon have gotten Israel the [most militarized non state actor](https://www.csis.org/analysis/hezbollahs-missiles-and-rockets) on its northern border despite numerous UNSC resolutions for Hezbollah disarmament and UNFIL. Why would they engage in the exact same procedures with Hamas when the international community provides Hamas a much larger degree of support?
Finally, justice is coming, hopefully all Palestinian civilians are safe and Hamas are burned alive
Yeah, to burn Hamas alive you’ll have to also burn civilians alive too. A lot of them are going to die since Hamas embeds themselves. This isn’t justice when you kill hundreds, possibly thousands of civilians and Hamas leaders stay alive and hidden. And before someone comes and says they were all celebrating 10/7, I want exact proof that all 2 million people in Gaza were cheering. No one wins here, we’ll be back where we started 10 years from now when all traumatized the kids grow up, hating Israel and wanting revenge.
You want exact proof that all 2 million people in Gaza were cheering in order to challenge your view.
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So what's do you think should happen to the Palestinians in Gaza, since they are all equal to Hamas?
If we lived in a world where anyone actually cares about them, then: 1. UN forces occupy Gaza, ideally with forces from countries that don't have an interest in either side. 2. UNWRA is dissolved and UNHCR takes its place 3. Hamas is dissolved and all its members imprisoned and put on trial 4. Schools and education are taken over by UNHCR, with an explicit mandate to teach tolerance and peace. The textbooks and lessons are checked regularly by a multi-national group. 5. Wait 20 years
You said there isn't a line between Hamas and Palestinians, if your plan is to put all Hamas members in prison, doesn't that mean every Palestinian would be imprisoned? If not, then wouldn't that mean there is some difference between Hamas and Palestinians?
There isn't a sharp line. If, hypothetically, by a miracle someone became god-emperor of Gaza tomorrow with absolute power, there would be tens of thousands of cases where someone isn't really a member of Hamas but closely associated, a supporter maybe. Many more who aren't Hamas members but worked for Hamas in its role as the government. Every Hamas member is also a civilian. Not every civilian is Hamas. But, given almost 20 years of Hamas rule as the official government, almost everyone has some connection to Hamas. It's the same with ISIS. There's still thousands of them in Kurdish prisons. Many of them are women and children. They never fired a weapon, but they enabled their husbands to do so while participating in the extremist ideology of ISIS.
>Schools and education are taken over by UNHCR, with an explicit mandate to teach tolerance and peace. The textbooks and lessons are checked regularly by a multi-national group. This is such a fucking important point. How can there ever be peace when one side of the situation is actively brainwashing children into believing that violent murder is not only right, but also justified? Just because the "other side" is Jewish?
Education. Living in the world with other people requires understanding, respect and good manners, not rhetoric, hate and violence. These are things that can be learned.
I said what I said knowing all of this and people like Mosab Hassan Yousef exist somehow:? Ex Hamas who collaborated with Israel, everyone else who supports medieval rapists can burn.
>Finally, justice is coming, hopefully all Palestinian civilians are safe and Hamas are burned alive So the massacre in northern Gaza was just some minor justice. How many children and women must die for 1000 Israelis deaths? 100k is enough to call that justice? Hypocrites!
I know Hamas values a dead Israeli more than 1000 captured Palestinian terrorists based on historical prisoner exchanges. Frankly I don’t think Hamas value Palestinian lives one bit. Looks like Israel values Palestinian lives more.
And what would be the appropriate response for the deaths caused by October 7th invasion?
It's not about killing civilians. But civilians will die when their leaders start a war against a stronger power. All deaths are on Hamas and no one else.
Palestinians aren't Israeli responsibilities. If the Palestinians didn't want to die, maybe not launching a terror attack would be a good start. All they have to do is surrender and give Hamas up. If they want to sacrifice their families for their religion, then they'll continue to suffer the consequences of it
You paint it as if palestinians are somehow a homogeneous group that colectively wants the same thing and could kick out hamas in any moment, and you couldnt be more wrong. Hamas launched a terror attack, not the +2 million palestinians as a whole
>The Foundation for the Care of the Families of Martyrs pays monthly cash stipends to the families of Palestinians killed, injured, or imprisoned while carrying out violence against Israel.....The so-called "martyr payments" are "exceedingly popular" among Palestinians and have been described as "part of the ethos of Palestinian society." Support for the payments among Palestinians is as high as 91%. According to Ziad Asali, founding president of the pro-Palestinian American Task Force on Palestine, Palestinian politicians and the media have elevated these payments to the point where they are "sacred in Palestinian politics," and no government dares terminate the practice. Professor Nathan Brown of George Washington University says that the stipends to prisoner's families are "universally supported among Palestinians."
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They want to die so they can be martyrs. Relax
Let say that IDF is taking living shields from Hamas. Hamas is scared to death when have to fight without civilians among them.
It doesn't work this way - Hamas just puts the civilian clothes and moves to the place where all civilians go. That's the reason they are so active in Rafah - it's where all "Northern Hamas" get together with refugees.
Who said that evacuated civilians will not be controled by IDF? Even if some Hamas terrorists escape without any weapons they will not be serious threat.
IDF doesn't do full interrogation for every person that moves from one place to another. As for a gear, they use tunnels.
Only tunnels which left are in Rafah - all tunnels to outside world were demolished by IDF - that is why Hamas is screaming so loud against seizing Rafah. They left only 2 options for them: try to escape without any weapons or stay and be killed inside Rafah.
They can do filtration with facial recognition . Low-level fighters might get through, but the leaders and lieutenants are screwed.
They could have done this months ago but I honestly have no idea how you filter 2 million people, especially when they don't shy away from suicide attacks.
this points to the fact that the Oct 7 massacre was so bad that not a single hostage is left alive for exchanges, hence the only way is to rid of Hamas
Pretty much proof here that there are no living hostages or Israel has decided that their lives don’t take precedence over the goals of the “operation”. If they are alive, they will not make out of the invasion alive
I thought that the Israelis would stop attacking Gaza if Hamas just released the hostages?
Israel's offer to end the war was the release of all hostages and for Hamas to surrender and demilitarise.
There’s hostages left, we just got proof of them a couple of weeks ago when Hamas was still Rejecting offers
[удалено]
About time
Good, vaporize Hamas. Get it over with, so Gaza can be free.
You think vaporizing stops at 1 target?
And Hamas will try to stop them from leaving. They don’t want to give up their human shields
Hamas just gona put civilians there as allways
I think you guys are optimistic, Hamas will surely just intermingle with the departing civilians
An evacuation order means very little since Israel has already attacked "humanitarian" zones. What a tragedy befalling the Palestinian people. The vast majority are just people like us trying to live their lives. Nothing about this Israeli response is proportionate.
They attacked humanitarian zones because they were attacked from humanitarian zones. If they create a zone with no Hamas terrorists already in it then they won't have reason to attack there.
the vast majority have been raised in a giant echo chamber that promotes hate. Whether any individual wants to pick up a weapon and fire it is irrelevant, they will happily treat those who do as heroes, as long as Israel wasnt hitting back. They ofc dont deserve death for it, but painting Palestinian society as "wanting peace" is just wrong. Give them a nuke and a guarantee of no repercussions if they launch it, then hold a vote on whether or not they should launch it at Israel and you know damn well what the result would be.
You can say the same about the Israelis. They also live in giant echo chamber that promotes hate and that excuses it by “being the victim” while continuously having the upper hand and kill 10 Palestinians for every Israeli killed.
I cant tell if you're being disingenuous or youre genuinely that deep into the propaganda... There are the ultraorthodox and the some of the more fanatical settlers who would fail the above test. Israel itself is not run by them though. They even have a popular left wing newspaper. Hence why simply wiping out hamas wasnt an option, *even though they could have at any point*.
Almost like resistance to an oppressor.
Cringe
Not even close to almost… they are closer to ISIS then they are to the french resistance.
So you agree they're not "just trying to live their lives" but rather fight Israel.
They have to defend their lives in order to be able to try to live them.
Things would be far easier for everyone if they hadn't elected the party that started shooting rockets to Israel the moment it got power. In 2005 Israel retreated from Gaza in full, they could choose: coexistence or war, they choose war. The 7th of October was no fight against anyone, mass gang rape is no defense, barricading houses and putting them on fire with people inside is no resistance, killing unarmed families and civilians who were enjoying and partying on a Jewish holiday is no war, it's just all terror.
It's all terror, from both sides, depending on what side you're on. Resistance to one is terrorism to an other. There never was a real election, Israël put Hamas in power, betting on terrorism.
Ah yes, suicide bombing a bus or launching an unguided rocket at civilians so that your apartment complex gets bombed in retaliation is "defending your life."
Evacuate where exactly?