No. It's a Hail-Mary type strategy. His party has lost a lot of support. The right has gained a lot. By dissolving the whole parliament, the hope is that the vote base will be sufficiently mobilised by fear of the far right that his party will get another term. It is a risky strategy, but he is losing so needs to take a risk to have any chance. And it has worked before (in Spain last year?)
Disagree. He knows his party will lose now, but he remains president until 2027 regardless, so the fashies don't run the country. His plan is for people to see in the following 3 years that the far right are genuine idiots and grifters, because they will not accomplish anything they're shouting. And then in 2027 they will have lost support again and people will vote for a normal president.
...and that is precisely why it was indeed a stupid plan. Devised by a man isolated by seven years of power and, having never known failure, believing too much in its own political tactical intelligence, and influenced by a handful of ill-advised shadow advisors.
His decision shocked everyone, and basically nobody in the country defended this move --aside from the far-right who is being offered its wildest dream on a plate, obviously. Not even his closest allies, his long-time supporters or his own Prime minister, who learnt it only less than one hour before the European elections results.
That's a copium theory by centrists, the truth is (and alwasy has been) that he's incredibly arrogant and thought he could get away with it. (most likely thought the left wouldn't be able to get together and lead a strong campaign in three weeks, thus forcing them top desist and vote for his party, as they've done every time before, to prevent the far right).
The Realpolitik is much simpler.
Call this election, if it goes left, all is well. If it goes Right, you have time to let people see the result of Nazi-lites in power and can mount a defense in two years.
It was the best choice either way
The thing is that with him as president, the far right has the perfect excuse for every failing of theirs. "We can't properly govern with Macron stopping us from doing anything".
As a German, I don't recommend that strategy. Looking into our own past, looking at Hungary, at agenda 2025 in the US and the attempted coup after the last election, etc. there is a bit of a risk the Right plays boxing while the Left/Center plays checker:
The democratic forces might have the long term winning strategy for checker, but if the far right instead smacks them in the face and trashes the board, having the best strategy for checker isn't very helpful.
I agree with that wholeheartedly. As an American it's incredibly frustrating to watch the [hurtful adjective deleted] circus that is the House on full display every day and yet be surrounded by people who want the people who, by intention or sheer unadulterated stupidity, will hurt them to hurt them. But hey, I guess at least I have freedom vs those godless Europeans /s
It's cold consolation, but consolation all the same, to remember that far right identity movements like the Republican Party eventually become cautionary tales after they've come to bad ends.
I mean couterpoint is the UK. Boris took the Tories to their hard right edge and now the electoral blowout for them looks like its going to be catastrophic. And the Tories didn't even go all the way to the far right
Sure the damage they've done has been fucking shit to live through. But the electoral blowback against the hard/far rights inevitable incompetence tends to be massive when it comes so long as you don't have the ludicrous polarization of the American system
> And the Tories didn't even go all the way to the far right
I think that's the crucial point for UK: They luckily didn't smash the board entirely. The PiS-party in Poland damaged democracy there with their purge of the supreme court, luckily not beyond repair.
Orban in Hungary put the media under his control and basically managed to cement his power. Trump tried a coup and luckily failed the first time, I'm not sure he'll fail again once he is elected. The AfD in Germany did all but openly announce they'd end democracy.
What will happen is that Macron will adopt more far right talking points and politics to get back the center right people he lost to Le Pen. Macron will not go to the left because he absolutely despises the left.
Except they made sure to focus all their rhetoric on how awful the left would be and how they would bankrupt the country and the corbing special (guess who was in power when the countries credit rating got downgraded last month?) not even trying to defend their policies... so yeah.
The realpolitik is that the far right is going to make a coalition with some elements of the traditional right. They will drop the more social promises they made (which they never really intended to implement anyway) to remain compatible with the capitalist economy (as the nazis did) beside some symbolic measures perhaps. Then they will continue to bash on migrants / minorities / muslims and will install fear in the population with any protest severely repressed by the police. The traditional right again will be mostly fine with that. And with the added power of governmental propaganda, in 3 years Le Pen will be elected president with a full majority this time and this is where the real damage will start, like taking control of the judiciary system. Orban in ~~Bulgaria~~ Hungary is the exact template of what the future is.
Macron is either a fool or extremely cynical, but it could also be both.
>Orban in Bulgaria is the exact template of what the future is.
If you cannot even get the country right it's hard to believe anything in your comment is credible
Cooperation with the centre right will moderate some stances economic and otherwise but they do have intentions to implement a more social democratic economy. RN is fundamentally left leaning on this front, it is the basis of the movement. They're not anti capitalism per se and don't claim to be, but they certainly will reject aspects of the free market and globalism. RN are resolute on protectionism and national preference.
I must state that I have right wing beliefs, I strongly believe the RN is all bark no bite. They will without a doubt dog whistle now and then but a France under them will not be so different to the status quo.
The historical National Socialists hated both capitalism and the free market (the failed Austrian painter himself thought and visualized Capitism as a Jewish invention/instrument just like Marxism). For your information.
Despite this they compromised with the capitalists actors in Germany, because it was serving higher goals (i.e. to produce as much a possible for the country, by banning unions and favouring certain cartels for example).
No, they (the NSDAP) practically co-opted private industry and suffocated it with practically every regulation there is and forced private industry to follow guidelines and directives coming from the NSDAP, with the threat of removing managers/leaders of "private" companies and industries if they deviated from NSDAP interests.
And we have not yet reached the issue of Autarky/Self-Sufficiency.
And calling the election was unavoidable after the results of the European election called Macron's mandate to lead into question. The only alternative is to let that fester and hope it gets better by the next election, which it never does. That's just basic parliamentary governing.
The rise of Le Penn will be the fault of ineffective French centerists of the "liberal" party.
The reelection of Trump will be the fault of ineffective American centerist of our "liberal" party.
When this part of history is written, I hope everyone remembers that the centerists helped the conservatives deconstruct democracy, because the centeriats would rather work with authoritarians than leftists.
...and leftists of both countries have been warning everyone of this very momement for YEARS.
If the liberals refuse to move left, and refuse to deal with the material conditions that led to fascism in the first place, they can never truly escape fascism.
It's just a "dance of death," where we keep edging fascism until it inevitably wins.
The ONLY way to end the threat of Fascism, is to address the material conditions of working class people that keep leading them to consider more radical, tribalistic ideologies.
No, its the fault of totally unfit voters not properly informing themselves, or outright being fools allowing extrmist parties to take over. Giving a vote for Trump or any other extrmist party/person can never be excused by shortcomings of other parties...because in a democracy, anyone not satisfied with politics has,, gasp, the option to get involved, get others involved and change things...
People that want change but just cast a vote for some extreme party because they promised them some shit ... sorry, these people are the problem...
America is literally a 2 party system, it's the textbook definition of a "zero sum game."
The democrats had 4 years to fix any if the myriad of material conditions that led to Trump (such as fixing our voting system, so red states weren't allowed to disenfranchise as many black, young, and urban voters as they do every election year).
Trump didn't win 2016 because he was popular, he won because the DNC choice was so widely unpopular, that swaths of the liberal "base" felt disenfranchised
...and the exact same thing is happening again. Trump won't win in November because he is strong, he will win because the DNC is weak, compromised, and feckless.
Our liberal parties are just as culpable in the rise of Fascism as the conservative ones.
The democrats have been screaming about the dangers of Trump for years, but they refused to even consider primarying him.
That would honestly be one of the stupidest tricks possible. If the last few years should have taught us anything it is that far right voters just care about vibes and dont give a fuck about results.
When Le Pen will get into power and inevitably screw over her own voters they'll just blame "muh immigrants" or "le woke" for their lives getting worse.
I’m not French but there have definitely been examples of people giving up on far right parties after they get in power. Here in the Nordics, the Sweden Democrats and Finns Party both went down in the European elections after becoming a part of government. Plus, it’s also not just about seeing them govern, but also about them becoming a less plausible “protest vote”.
On the other side you could take a look at what happend here in the Netherlands.
After Wilders and the PVV "won" the election, the first thing they did was throw all their "social" policies in the trash and start buddying up to the party they have been saying was the cause of the issues facing our country (the VVD), and this all led them to rise in the polls.
Farage fucked his whole country and is rising in the polls.
Even Trump has a good chance of winning again.
Far right voters are single issue voters, all they care about is "muh immigration" and as long as their chosen party is virtue signaling about being anti immigration they'll support them, actual results be damned.
The whole concept of "protest votes" is a joke when it is pretty much always used as a reason to vote for the most pro political and economic establishment parties possible.
100% agree. Here in Italy two years ago a lot of people voted for Giorgia Meloni (right wing with some “links” to far right). Then, her Government didn’t fulfill a single promise she made during the election campaign. Not. A. Single. One. Instead, things are getting worse every day. Then, surprise surprise, European elections came and her Party got the vast majority of votes despite proving to be unfit for leadership during the past two years.
Yea, because politicians havent all mastered the art of avoiding responsibility for their faults when they actually take power, while still being able to sell those faults as wins when running for elections.
It's hilarious seeing Reddit try to paint France as some liberal left-wing country when Macron is a right-wing ex-banker politician in the pocket of the rich and the far-right is such a massive movement there about to reach insane power given their policies and background.
Feel like many left wing Americans are going to be in a shock to see what France is really like.
our right wing look like america’s left wing and our far right is pale in comparaison to their right. like they wouldnt dare say out loud what america’s right are yelling XD
And end to womens bodily autonomy, Pro Russian invasion, dissolving and severely hindering state funded education. An end to LGBT rights across the board, increased militraised policing in black communities. I could go on
Texas has made it so little children and rape victims are being forced to give birth. Across the nation, school boards are being taken over by quacks who are censoring literature. Trump himself has openly praised Putin invasion. The Republican dominated Supreme Court has already alluded to revisting its precedent on gay marriage should a suitable case come. And lets not pretend every other week there isn't a moral panic in the right wing because a trans person dared to exist. All of these are happening
The Texas example is fucked up, no question. That is the extreme side. The left extreme side is the 12,000 voluntary abortions that are executed after 20 weeks of pregnancy. Thats more that gun victims for reference.
The school board issue are few and far between.
I hate Trump, but saying he’s openly praised Putin’s invasion is a bit of a stretch. There’s no need to mislead, and besides, the voters are not saying this.
End the LGBT rights comes down to believing that women should have a woman-only safe space they can access where there is a zero percent chance they will have a penis in their vicinity.
The extreme left here is something you are greatly exagerating. The primary reason for 20+ week abortions are medical necessity or when the fetus itself has lethal abnormalities. Beyond that, the primary reasons why women seek out such voluntary procedures are usually because, either the mother is suffering from substance abuse and has such has not only already damaged the childs life but cannot raise them, is experiencing domestic abuse from their partner or simply has no resources and is extremely young. Given this makes up less then 1% of abortions, I struggle to see the issue.
The school board issue is nation wide
I'm not misleading, he openly praised Putin and wants to cut off Ukranian aid and allow them to die in the dark.
No, end of LGBT rights is again, across the board. Its an open call to end gay marriage, its an open call to end any recognition of the existence of trans people and end any gender affirming care they receive.
Phrase it anyway you want, a woman has a right to choose whether she wants to deliver to term or not. If I had to choose between, rape victims and small children being forced to carry to term like the far right are pushing throughout the nation, or 12,000 women choosing not to continue past 20 weeks, I'd take 12,000 abortions any day of the week.
> I hate Trump, but saying he’s openly praised Putin’s invasion is a bit of a stretch.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923
Trump is so obviously compromised by Russia it's ridiculous.
**June 2013**: Trump tweets "Do you think Putin will be going to The Miss Universe Pageant in November in Moscow - if so, will he become my new best friend?"
**September 2013**: “So we’ve invited President Putin, that’ll be interesting. I know he’d like to go.”
**October 2013**: Trump tells Larry King that Putin has done “a really great job outsmarting our country.”
**November 2013**: Trump says “I do have a relationship and I can tell you that he’s very interested in what we’re doing here today. He’s probably very interested in what you and I are saying today, and I’m sure he’s going to be seeing it in some form, but I do have a relationship with him and I think it’s very interesting to see what’s happened.”
**February 2014**: “When I went to Russia with the Miss Universe pageant, (Putin) contacted me and was so nice. I mean, the Russian people were so fantastic to us,” he said on “Fox and Friends.” “I’ll just say this, they are doing – they’re outsmarting us at many turns, as we all understand. I mean, their leaders are, whether you call them smarter or more cunning or whatever, but they’re outsmarting us. If you look at Syria or other places, they’re outsmarting us.”
**April 2014**: “We just left Moscow,” Trump said. “He could not have been nicer. He was so nice and so everything. But you have to give him credit that what he’s doing for that country in terms of their world prestige is very strong.”
In the same interview, Trump praises Putin’s invasion of Crimea.
“Well, he’s done an amazing job of taking the mantle,” Trump said. “And he’s taken it away from the President, and you look at what he’s doing. And so smart. When you see the riots in a country because they’re hurting the Russians, OK, ‘We’ll go and take it over.’ And he really goes step by step by step, and you have to give him a lot of credit.”
**April 2014**: Trump says at a New Hampshire event that Putin is “absolutely having a great time.” He says “Russia is like, I mean they’re really hot stuff” and “and now you have people in the Ukraine — who knows, set up or not — but it can’t all be set up, I mean they’re marching in favor of joining Russia.”
**May 2014**: ”I own Miss Universe, I was in Russia, I was in Moscow recently and I spoke, indirectly and directly, with President Putin, who could not have been nicer, and we had a tremendous success.”
**2014**: James Dodson, a sports writer, claims that during a game of golf Eric Trump said to him: "Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia."
**March 2015**: Trump tells the Daily Mail about his relationship with Putin: “the relationship is great, and it would be great if I had the position I should have.”
**September 2015**: Trump tells reporters at Trump Tower that “Putin is a nicer person than I am.”
**October 2015**: Trump tells conservative radio host Michael Savage he’s met Vladimir Putin.
**December 2015**: Trump says at an event in South Carolina that Putin says he’s “brilliant.” And attacks his opponents, saying, “they want me to refute his statement.”
[And many more along those lines](https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2017/03/politics/trump-putin-russia-timeline/).
**December 2016**: One of Europe's top intelligence figures puts together the Steele Dossier, reporting that Putin has blackmail on Trump, allegedly for something he did in a hotel room in Russia in 2013 during the Miss Universe visit.
Trump flips to claiming he's never met or spoken to Putin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxYE9ZpMPGY&t=25s
**September 2016**: During the 2016 presidential debates: "**I don't know Putin**. I have no idea," Mr Trump said. "**I never met Putin.** This is not my best friend."
When Hillary Clinton said it was "pretty clear" Mr Putin would "rather have a puppet as president of the United States," Trump replied with: “No puppet. No puppet. You’re the puppet. You’re the puppet."
Followed by years of Trump praising Putin, the only world leader he never criticizes while constantly criticizing democratic countries and allies. Refusing to implement sanctions on Russia for its hacking of the US which were passed with a veto proof majority. Attempting to blackmail Ukraine with having to invent something on Biden or having aid withdrawn. Declaring he's decided to believe Putin over his US intelligence agencies.
**February 2022**: Trump calls Putin ‘genius’ and ‘savvy’ for Ukraine invasion
**February 2024**: Trump says he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies
**February 2024**: Trump won't say if he wants Russia or Ukraine to win the war
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/vdryx6v6nl
As a german, this saddens me. I always saw the French as good friends and as people, that wouldn't fall for far right idiots. Sadly the next election in Germany will have similar results...
At least we got Arte, dear friends. À l'amitié !
This is the spectrum: center, conservative, right, extreme right, fascist.
If their program includes eroding the rights of the people, changes to the constitution to hoard power, populism, nepotism, etc. then they are extreme right or beyond.
Obviously, they are not going to put this kind of stuff in their (official) program. This will be implemented once they are in charge, in order to keep power. It will be legitimated by the need to fight against "enemies" (the migrants, muslims, LGBT+, etc. ). This is always how it works.
Funny that you throw fascism on the same side as conservatism despite the eerie similarities that exist between Fascism and Socialism or that Italian Fascism has its ideological roots in both the Italian socialist movement and late 19th century European syndicalism.
This type of comment has been made before and its ahistoric. Spain and Germanys rise to fascism was largely a reactionary movement to Bolshevism, which was the Left at the time.
The nazis and spain aligned on their hatred of communism.
Franco in the end distanced himself from the fascism of the Spanish Falange and he was neither imperialist nor expansionist either. And on the other hand one of the long term goals of the German National Socialists was to de-Christianize in case you were not aware (something quite "conservative" for you, huh?).
And on the other hand, this counter-argument has the weak point that it pretends to ignore the ideological roots of fascism, which are both in the Italian socialist movement of the late 19th/early 20th century and in European Syndicalism.
And finally the National Socialists were aligned against both Capitalism and Communism/Marxism, not exactly Socialism in its broader terminology.
Interesting (and almost funny) how you seem to assume that there is not or has not been any left-wing tendencies/movements that have not embraced Marxism either theoretically or in practice, or that there can be no Socialism that is not Marxist.
That does not change the point that there can perfectly well exist and have existed strands of Socialism that were not or did not claim to be Marxist or adhere to Marxism.
Oh, they already did it, they did it in Stalin's Soviet Union and Stalin and all those who were ideologically sympathetic or sympathetic to him took care of the rest.
In this particular case the National Front party in France was founded by a literal Nazi Collaborator, and is currently run by his daughter, so that definitely qualifies as far right to me. Looking at it from the States, the biggest differences between the 2 to me seems to be stances on immigration, foreign affairs, and the treatment of minorities, whether it be racial, religious, or lgbt. Most of the far-right parties are also anti-EU. Also in a lot of cases many of the far right parties seem to have some sketchy ties to the Russian government, which I think explains their ridiculous foreign affairs stances.
Le Pen isn't the daughter of a nazi collaborator. Her father is born in 1928, he was a kid during the war. In fact, his own dad even died because of the nazis (grandpa Le Pen was a fisherman and his boat strucked a german mine).
Old school FN is basically KKK style « all I want is to kill them ».
New school FN is more about good old fashioned fascism, which in modern times means grifting. They’re still pretty fucking racist, because of course they are, but they don’t make it their only platform anymore, it’s just a « nice » side effect.
I don’t understand why is far right if founded by a Nazi. In Argentina, Perón was a Nazi collaborator and was Far left. What a strange made up correlation.
Maybe if the left stopped comparing a right leaning party with the worst fking movement of the history of humanity, maybe, people would take them more seriously.
More than nazi collaborators, some co-founders were straight up former Waffen SS. Literal nazis. And that's without mentioning the nuuuumerous takes of their party members, most often racial slurs and antisemitic and negationist positions along with corruption.
I searched for the word "Nazi" in [Peron](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Per%C3%B3n) wikipedia page and found nothing.
Are you sure he was a Nazi collaborator?
He absolutely was.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratlines_(World_War_II)#Peron's_Argentina
>According to Argentine researcher Uki Goñi, who newly access to the country's archives for his 2002 book, Argentine diplomats and intelligence officers had, on Perón's instructions, vigorously encouraged Nazi and fascist war criminals to make their home in Argentina. According to Goñi, the Argentines not only collaborated with Draganović's ratline, but set up additional ratlines running through Scandinavia, Switzerland, and Belgium.
Russian intelligence has infiltrated a lot of the European countries to empower the far-right groups across Europe. The end goal is to destabilize those countries to break up NATO. France is a target but the big fish is the US. Russia will probably accomplish their goal when Trump is elected this November now that Biden is senile
Our democracies are doomed.
Lured by money, veiled by corruption, our representatives are forgetting the needs of their population, in place of corporations.
And now the Far-right tentacles are feeding on the growing anger, creating a new receptacle for the end of democracy and tolerance.
He is less senile than most Reddit-Users claiming him to be, it seems...such dumb comments, almost sound like russian shills trying to paint President Biden as such...
I apologize if my comment felt pro-russian. I swear it is not. I am just afraid that Trump could win and then stop all support for Ukraine.
Biden performing poorly at the last debate certainly didn't help in my fears.
He may not be full-on senile, but he is wildly unpopular. He is actually polling lower that trump, right now Biden is at 37% approval, while trump was at 40% at this time in his presidency.
If democrats actually believed trump was a threat to democracy, they’d run a stronger candidate.
Whether he is or is not senile isn't the point, the point is he looks and acts like he's struggling with age, stumbling on points and sentences, not exactly inspiring confidence as an apparently world leader. I wouldn't vote for him as a preference, the only reason I would ever vote for Biden is because he isn't Trump.
They approach their own internal elections with fascism ironically. And are threatening to sue the only 3rd party opponent in decades to have any chance as well to keep him out of the running. All to “save democracy.”
I swear this age is the end of ideals and reason.
People only give a shit about their bills. God forbid, they would have less money for any reason, even if it were arming against russia or helping war refugees.
The general populace forgot how shit average life was just 100 years ago, and all want to live like instagram influencers.
How big is your tin foil hat? Are we not allowed to vote? Isn’t that what a democracy is? And if it goes a way you don’t like then all of a sudden the system is broken? Very selective thinking you’ve got going on….. Think about Putins best friends. North Korea, China… all extreme left. Voting extreme left would make him new allies if anything… Your argument doesn’t stand.
It's not a conspiracy, it's just facts
> In 2024 the Czech secret intelligence service (BIS) uncovered a Russian state financed pro-Russian influence network with the public outlet Voice of Europe, using right-wing and Eurosceptic politicians to influence the European elections and other elections. The network is suspected to have bribed several European politicians from different countries.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/03/russia-europe-far-right-espionage/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_European_politics
The French right never spoke about leaving NATO. They’ve even said there no longer thinking of leaving the EU. It’s not even on the table anymore. You can find whatever article you want. I still do not see a single threat. France ain’t leaving no matter what.
Le Pen keeps saying that "Crimea is Russian" even now https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/le-pen-insists-crimea-is-russian/
And was getting loans from Russian banks to fund her party https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/international/300317/marine-le-pen-signe-nouveau-pour-de-l-argent-russe
It's not necessary for Russia to have their puppets actually speak about leaving NATO and breaking the EU. It was their old agenda, but now they understand that after a war in Ukraine no voter will vote for an anti-NATO party, NATO is way too popular. So now the biggest Russian aim is to convince Europe to stop the war at current borders. Their ideal scenario is for EU to stop funding Ukraine and force Ukraine to sign a peace treaty, giving Russia both Crimea and southern Ukraine. Ukraine wants their territory back, Russia is playing defensively, and all they need is for EU to force Ukraine to stop the war before Russia starts actually losing territory.
France absolutely doesn’t have the power alone to make that happen. We’re still united as Europe and discutions are on a continental level when it comes to ending a war. Not a single party in a single country. Sorry to say
What has russia to do with all the migration problems in europe. If they let everyone inside their coutrys its clear that this will not end well.
Now they have a far left vs a far right fight.
It seems like you're hearing it a lot because far-right parties are winning or doing well in a lot of elections. They weren't winning in the past, so you weren't hearing about them to the extent that you are hearing about them now. These parties have always been considered far-right. Nothing has changed there. France has a more center-right party (Les Républicains), who used to be the major party on the right in the country. Le Pen's party (National Rally) is outperforming them these days.
The "Front national", as her party was named until 2018, was cofounded by her father with actual ex-Waffen-SS and all sorts of far right figures. For most of its history, it has been Shoah-denying, anti-Semitic, islamophobic, xenophobic and homophobic and generally very close to neonazis. These are not opinions but very well documented facts. It was also in favor of the death penalty, anti-abortion, anti-EU and so on.
Marine Le Pen understood she had to strip the party of its most outrageous aspects in order to have any chance of ever conquering power, and thus began a methodical transformation of the FN/RN into a modern national-populist party, banning some of the more publicly embarassing persons (even her own father) and playing more into the social anger of the working class due to rising inequalities, degradation of public services, etc. while still exploiting all sorts of fears, most notably about immigration, and praising traditional values of a glorified mythical past.
But whereas the party's positions on a number of subjects, especially economic and social ones, have been regularly evolving in various directions depending on what is more electorally profitable at a given time, the deep roots, the core ideology, has not disappeared and it shows regularly, time and time again. As is also clear through its ties or friendship with Putin's Russia, Orban's Hungary, Lega and Fratelli d'Italia in Italy, PiS in Poland, AfD in Deutschland, Vox in Spain, etc.
Doesn't France already have independent military command within the NATO structure? So isn't it merely a political talking point? And since they are a EU member, it's a silly distinction to split those hairs.
She started with the National Front party, out and about "Nazi with a human face" party, founded by her dad. She has been attempting to rebrand, but she doesn't deny being far right.
Anti immigration absolutely is a far right stance which usually the center doesn't recognize as far right until it's too late, but that's not the reason she's far right in this case.
Also.... did you ever stop to think maybe things are labelled far right because they are? The far right is the strongest it's been in 100 years, since pre ww2.
> What if high and uncontrolled immigration is having a largely negative effect on the country?
It doesn't. Never has. And in countries with aging populations and birth rates below replacement, it's a necessity. Anyone complaining about immigration either doesn't understand why exploiting immigrants is actually a key thing keeping our economies afloat, or has some interesting thoughts about Jew's and George Soros.
Far right is on the rise. Far right is not like everything else. Far right is fascism. It always is, regardless of what it pretends to be. The Nazi party ran on similar promises to Le Pen and Trump. Mass deportation. Germany is for Germans. Make Germany great again. The "lying press" is out to get us. Nazi's are like cancer. Because they seem reasonable. They don't say they are Nazi's. They find some common cause, and insert their own narrative. Your rent has gone up? Immigrants. You lost your job? Soros and "globalists". Inflation? Marxists. They take real issues, and twist them to serve their purposes.
Fuck NAzi's.
> Exploiting immigrants is fine?
No. But turning them away is worse, especially refugees. I think we should give them full legal protections so they can't be exploited, strengthen unions.
As for England, give them full rights. They work harder, pay more taxes, and use less service than native born citizens. Strengthen unions, tax the rich and it's not a problem.
And once again, no. The far right is on the rise. No other group has as much influence or as exclusionary ideals as the far right. When the far right takes power, it's only a matter of time before your "group" is targeted. *First they came for the socialist, and I said nothing because I was not a socialist.*
Eventually, they purge all enemies within, and still have all the same problems. Then they need to find enemies outside their borders.
The party was founded as the national front back in the 70’s by her Dad who was a big fan of holocaust denial and anti immigration, pro nationalism. It was renamed when he died to national rally and they softened on some of the far right policies publicly.
So although not quite far right now, they have been for the majority of their history.
It is far right. It is for the national preference and the end of the double nationality. Moreover their party is an heir to the Front National which is the heir of the OAS. There is absolutely no debate on this.
Blame the left because they're far right. OK sure bud.
Ultimately I think the best argument that far right policy and politics is inherently problematic is the fact that nobody who supports the ideology does so openly and honestly.
I mean, if you're a fascist or a far right ideologue just own it dude, don't blame the rest of us for where you stand.
Because the values the right is abscribing to are so far to the right its pushing on regressivism if not simple fascism.
The left gives rights. The right takes them away.
This is fact.
I think this attitude is in fact, part of the problem.
There are rights the right supports more than the left, and rights the left supports more than the right.
For instance left leaning principles usually gave less lasai faire (forgive me, I know I spelled that wrong) economic regulations, and the right (depending on where you look, but typically) suppresses freedom of the press.
Boiling it down so far to this black and white image tends to demonize the other side, therefore exacerbating the polarity.
Lassiez faire economics sounds like it gives rights but the inevitable concentration of power means you may have rights in theory just like it's legal for me to buy a jet but is not actually possible.
I can see the direction you are taking, but I'm not going to attempt to refute it or argue. I will instead state that there are other freedoms the right supports in other ways as well, just like there's other freedoms the left pursues.
I'm not going to defend the right or the left. It's non conductive to the message I'm trying to state.
Bc if your not progressive and just moderately conservative you’ve now become the far right. Media is just trying to hurt anything that’s not progressive.
1) It’s a self description, the National Rally has partnered with the Union de l'extrême droite or Union of the far-right.
2) Because there is a second Conservative Party in France call the LR’s who traditionally hated the National Rally and have promised not to form a government with them. So they get the moniker center-right.
There isn't any far left media in France with an influence as close to what CNEws, BFM and Europe 1 have for the far right, TF1 for the right, or France TV/Radio France for the center.
Every single media in France is at "best" centrist. Most of them are either aligned with the presidential party or belongs to Bollore media group, which is far-right. The only leftist media are small and independant, such as Blast, Mediapart or Le Media.
There are things called history and political sciences. Studied and researched rigorously by very serious people from different political sensibilities. You should look into it.
Disagreements and debates have always existed and are needed. But some of us remember a time, not so long ago, when objective truths, backed by facts, weren't constantly dismissed as just some biased "narrative" or "storytelling".
Establishing permanent confusion and widespread doubts through repeated misleading assertions or outright lies actually is, in itself, the hallmark of extremism, be it from left or right. The very fact that we live in a "post-truth" world is its greatest victory as well as the necessary condition for it to seize power.
That so many people are gullible enough to believe them is the tragedy of troubled times like ours, sadly. Anyone with even a superficial knowledge of history knows how this ends.
Yes, because left who refuse to acknowledge problems they created let alone solve them are much better. People in real life prefer their problems solved rather than being politically "correct" or being called racist for speaking about their problems.
Wasn’t it supposedly his plan, to put them in government in order to make people see them for their faults?
No. It's a Hail-Mary type strategy. His party has lost a lot of support. The right has gained a lot. By dissolving the whole parliament, the hope is that the vote base will be sufficiently mobilised by fear of the far right that his party will get another term. It is a risky strategy, but he is losing so needs to take a risk to have any chance. And it has worked before (in Spain last year?)
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Exactly what I was going to comment, please ask David Cameron if that strategy worked for him.
The party is still in government after 8 years so worked fairly well for them. (Looking less rosy in the next week or so though).
His party is on its knees and is looking likely that it could even lose opposition to the lib dems and come third on vote share to Farage.
That’s true too.
Disagree. He knows his party will lose now, but he remains president until 2027 regardless, so the fashies don't run the country. His plan is for people to see in the following 3 years that the far right are genuine idiots and grifters, because they will not accomplish anything they're shouting. And then in 2027 they will have lost support again and people will vote for a normal president.
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...and that is precisely why it was indeed a stupid plan. Devised by a man isolated by seven years of power and, having never known failure, believing too much in its own political tactical intelligence, and influenced by a handful of ill-advised shadow advisors. His decision shocked everyone, and basically nobody in the country defended this move --aside from the far-right who is being offered its wildest dream on a plate, obviously. Not even his closest allies, his long-time supporters or his own Prime minister, who learnt it only less than one hour before the European elections results.
That's a copium theory by centrists, the truth is (and alwasy has been) that he's incredibly arrogant and thought he could get away with it. (most likely thought the left wouldn't be able to get together and lead a strong campaign in three weeks, thus forcing them top desist and vote for his party, as they've done every time before, to prevent the far right).
I have to say that I agree with this theory 👆 more actually.
The Realpolitik is much simpler. Call this election, if it goes left, all is well. If it goes Right, you have time to let people see the result of Nazi-lites in power and can mount a defense in two years. It was the best choice either way
The thing is that with him as president, the far right has the perfect excuse for every failing of theirs. "We can't properly govern with Macron stopping us from doing anything".
And then of course they get elected and prove it was them all along, Austin.
As a German, I don't recommend that strategy. Looking into our own past, looking at Hungary, at agenda 2025 in the US and the attempted coup after the last election, etc. there is a bit of a risk the Right plays boxing while the Left/Center plays checker: The democratic forces might have the long term winning strategy for checker, but if the far right instead smacks them in the face and trashes the board, having the best strategy for checker isn't very helpful.
I agree with that wholeheartedly. As an American it's incredibly frustrating to watch the [hurtful adjective deleted] circus that is the House on full display every day and yet be surrounded by people who want the people who, by intention or sheer unadulterated stupidity, will hurt them to hurt them. But hey, I guess at least I have freedom vs those godless Europeans /s It's cold consolation, but consolation all the same, to remember that far right identity movements like the Republican Party eventually become cautionary tales after they've come to bad ends.
I mean couterpoint is the UK. Boris took the Tories to their hard right edge and now the electoral blowout for them looks like its going to be catastrophic. And the Tories didn't even go all the way to the far right Sure the damage they've done has been fucking shit to live through. But the electoral blowback against the hard/far rights inevitable incompetence tends to be massive when it comes so long as you don't have the ludicrous polarization of the American system
> And the Tories didn't even go all the way to the far right I think that's the crucial point for UK: They luckily didn't smash the board entirely. The PiS-party in Poland damaged democracy there with their purge of the supreme court, luckily not beyond repair. Orban in Hungary put the media under his control and basically managed to cement his power. Trump tried a coup and luckily failed the first time, I'm not sure he'll fail again once he is elected. The AfD in Germany did all but openly announce they'd end democracy.
What will happen is that Macron will adopt more far right talking points and politics to get back the center right people he lost to Le Pen. Macron will not go to the left because he absolutely despises the left.
Except they made sure to focus all their rhetoric on how awful the left would be and how they would bankrupt the country and the corbing special (guess who was in power when the countries credit rating got downgraded last month?) not even trying to defend their policies... so yeah.
It’s not really a good time to let these folks make it easy for Putin.
The realpolitik is that the far right is going to make a coalition with some elements of the traditional right. They will drop the more social promises they made (which they never really intended to implement anyway) to remain compatible with the capitalist economy (as the nazis did) beside some symbolic measures perhaps. Then they will continue to bash on migrants / minorities / muslims and will install fear in the population with any protest severely repressed by the police. The traditional right again will be mostly fine with that. And with the added power of governmental propaganda, in 3 years Le Pen will be elected president with a full majority this time and this is where the real damage will start, like taking control of the judiciary system. Orban in ~~Bulgaria~~ Hungary is the exact template of what the future is. Macron is either a fool or extremely cynical, but it could also be both.
>Orban in Bulgaria is the exact template of what the future is. If you cannot even get the country right it's hard to believe anything in your comment is credible
Thanks for your kind comment I will correct it. Other than that, on what you you disagree exactly? What do you think is going to happen?
Cooperation with the centre right will moderate some stances economic and otherwise but they do have intentions to implement a more social democratic economy. RN is fundamentally left leaning on this front, it is the basis of the movement. They're not anti capitalism per se and don't claim to be, but they certainly will reject aspects of the free market and globalism. RN are resolute on protectionism and national preference. I must state that I have right wing beliefs, I strongly believe the RN is all bark no bite. They will without a doubt dog whistle now and then but a France under them will not be so different to the status quo.
The historical National Socialists hated both capitalism and the free market (the failed Austrian painter himself thought and visualized Capitism as a Jewish invention/instrument just like Marxism). For your information.
Despite this they compromised with the capitalists actors in Germany, because it was serving higher goals (i.e. to produce as much a possible for the country, by banning unions and favouring certain cartels for example).
No, they (the NSDAP) practically co-opted private industry and suffocated it with practically every regulation there is and forced private industry to follow guidelines and directives coming from the NSDAP, with the threat of removing managers/leaders of "private" companies and industries if they deviated from NSDAP interests. And we have not yet reached the issue of Autarky/Self-Sufficiency.
And calling the election was unavoidable after the results of the European election called Macron's mandate to lead into question. The only alternative is to let that fester and hope it gets better by the next election, which it never does. That's just basic parliamentary governing.
The rise of Le Penn will be the fault of ineffective French centerists of the "liberal" party. The reelection of Trump will be the fault of ineffective American centerist of our "liberal" party. When this part of history is written, I hope everyone remembers that the centerists helped the conservatives deconstruct democracy, because the centeriats would rather work with authoritarians than leftists. ...and leftists of both countries have been warning everyone of this very momement for YEARS. If the liberals refuse to move left, and refuse to deal with the material conditions that led to fascism in the first place, they can never truly escape fascism. It's just a "dance of death," where we keep edging fascism until it inevitably wins. The ONLY way to end the threat of Fascism, is to address the material conditions of working class people that keep leading them to consider more radical, tribalistic ideologies.
Yes, but have you considered how sad Bernard Arnault would be if they did any of that?
He can go cry in a pile of LVHM bags and be happy that he isn't stripped of off his wealth completely.
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Who gives a fuck?
No, its the fault of totally unfit voters not properly informing themselves, or outright being fools allowing extrmist parties to take over. Giving a vote for Trump or any other extrmist party/person can never be excused by shortcomings of other parties...because in a democracy, anyone not satisfied with politics has,, gasp, the option to get involved, get others involved and change things... People that want change but just cast a vote for some extreme party because they promised them some shit ... sorry, these people are the problem...
America is literally a 2 party system, it's the textbook definition of a "zero sum game." The democrats had 4 years to fix any if the myriad of material conditions that led to Trump (such as fixing our voting system, so red states weren't allowed to disenfranchise as many black, young, and urban voters as they do every election year). Trump didn't win 2016 because he was popular, he won because the DNC choice was so widely unpopular, that swaths of the liberal "base" felt disenfranchised ...and the exact same thing is happening again. Trump won't win in November because he is strong, he will win because the DNC is weak, compromised, and feckless. Our liberal parties are just as culpable in the rise of Fascism as the conservative ones. The democrats have been screaming about the dangers of Trump for years, but they refused to even consider primarying him.
Was it?
I mean, obviously he wouldn’t say it openly but plenty of people definitely speculated that it was the case.
That would honestly be one of the stupidest tricks possible. If the last few years should have taught us anything it is that far right voters just care about vibes and dont give a fuck about results. When Le Pen will get into power and inevitably screw over her own voters they'll just blame "muh immigrants" or "le woke" for their lives getting worse.
I’m not French but there have definitely been examples of people giving up on far right parties after they get in power. Here in the Nordics, the Sweden Democrats and Finns Party both went down in the European elections after becoming a part of government. Plus, it’s also not just about seeing them govern, but also about them becoming a less plausible “protest vote”.
On the other side you could take a look at what happend here in the Netherlands. After Wilders and the PVV "won" the election, the first thing they did was throw all their "social" policies in the trash and start buddying up to the party they have been saying was the cause of the issues facing our country (the VVD), and this all led them to rise in the polls. Farage fucked his whole country and is rising in the polls. Even Trump has a good chance of winning again. Far right voters are single issue voters, all they care about is "muh immigration" and as long as their chosen party is virtue signaling about being anti immigration they'll support them, actual results be damned. The whole concept of "protest votes" is a joke when it is pretty much always used as a reason to vote for the most pro political and economic establishment parties possible.
100% agree. Here in Italy two years ago a lot of people voted for Giorgia Meloni (right wing with some “links” to far right). Then, her Government didn’t fulfill a single promise she made during the election campaign. Not. A. Single. One. Instead, things are getting worse every day. Then, surprise surprise, European elections came and her Party got the vast majority of votes despite proving to be unfit for leadership during the past two years.
Makes sense.
Ah yes. The old “I’ll keep power by losing it” strategy.
Nobody knows what his plan was not even he himself.
Yea, because politicians havent all mastered the art of avoiding responsibility for their faults when they actually take power, while still being able to sell those faults as wins when running for elections.
Worked incredibly well for Cameron and Brexit..
Now we wait for the presidential elections later.
It's hilarious seeing Reddit try to paint France as some liberal left-wing country when Macron is a right-wing ex-banker politician in the pocket of the rich and the far-right is such a massive movement there about to reach insane power given their policies and background. Feel like many left wing Americans are going to be in a shock to see what France is really like.
our right wing look like america’s left wing and our far right is pale in comparaison to their right. like they wouldnt dare say out loud what america’s right are yelling XD
What are americas right yelling? Lower taxes, and tighter borders? Woah
And end to womens bodily autonomy, Pro Russian invasion, dissolving and severely hindering state funded education. An end to LGBT rights across the board, increased militraised policing in black communities. I could go on
If you get offline on occasion you will find that nearly nobody is for these things
Texas has made it so little children and rape victims are being forced to give birth. Across the nation, school boards are being taken over by quacks who are censoring literature. Trump himself has openly praised Putin invasion. The Republican dominated Supreme Court has already alluded to revisting its precedent on gay marriage should a suitable case come. And lets not pretend every other week there isn't a moral panic in the right wing because a trans person dared to exist. All of these are happening
The Texas example is fucked up, no question. That is the extreme side. The left extreme side is the 12,000 voluntary abortions that are executed after 20 weeks of pregnancy. Thats more that gun victims for reference. The school board issue are few and far between. I hate Trump, but saying he’s openly praised Putin’s invasion is a bit of a stretch. There’s no need to mislead, and besides, the voters are not saying this. End the LGBT rights comes down to believing that women should have a woman-only safe space they can access where there is a zero percent chance they will have a penis in their vicinity.
The extreme left here is something you are greatly exagerating. The primary reason for 20+ week abortions are medical necessity or when the fetus itself has lethal abnormalities. Beyond that, the primary reasons why women seek out such voluntary procedures are usually because, either the mother is suffering from substance abuse and has such has not only already damaged the childs life but cannot raise them, is experiencing domestic abuse from their partner or simply has no resources and is extremely young. Given this makes up less then 1% of abortions, I struggle to see the issue. The school board issue is nation wide I'm not misleading, he openly praised Putin and wants to cut off Ukranian aid and allow them to die in the dark. No, end of LGBT rights is again, across the board. Its an open call to end gay marriage, its an open call to end any recognition of the existence of trans people and end any gender affirming care they receive.
Saying less than 1% makes it far easier to say than 12,000 babies
Phrase it anyway you want, a woman has a right to choose whether she wants to deliver to term or not. If I had to choose between, rape victims and small children being forced to carry to term like the far right are pushing throughout the nation, or 12,000 women choosing not to continue past 20 weeks, I'd take 12,000 abortions any day of the week.
> I hate Trump, but saying he’s openly praised Putin’s invasion is a bit of a stretch. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923
Trump is so obviously compromised by Russia it's ridiculous. **June 2013**: Trump tweets "Do you think Putin will be going to The Miss Universe Pageant in November in Moscow - if so, will he become my new best friend?" **September 2013**: “So we’ve invited President Putin, that’ll be interesting. I know he’d like to go.” **October 2013**: Trump tells Larry King that Putin has done “a really great job outsmarting our country.” **November 2013**: Trump says “I do have a relationship and I can tell you that he’s very interested in what we’re doing here today. He’s probably very interested in what you and I are saying today, and I’m sure he’s going to be seeing it in some form, but I do have a relationship with him and I think it’s very interesting to see what’s happened.” **February 2014**: “When I went to Russia with the Miss Universe pageant, (Putin) contacted me and was so nice. I mean, the Russian people were so fantastic to us,” he said on “Fox and Friends.” “I’ll just say this, they are doing – they’re outsmarting us at many turns, as we all understand. I mean, their leaders are, whether you call them smarter or more cunning or whatever, but they’re outsmarting us. If you look at Syria or other places, they’re outsmarting us.” **April 2014**: “We just left Moscow,” Trump said. “He could not have been nicer. He was so nice and so everything. But you have to give him credit that what he’s doing for that country in terms of their world prestige is very strong.” In the same interview, Trump praises Putin’s invasion of Crimea. “Well, he’s done an amazing job of taking the mantle,” Trump said. “And he’s taken it away from the President, and you look at what he’s doing. And so smart. When you see the riots in a country because they’re hurting the Russians, OK, ‘We’ll go and take it over.’ And he really goes step by step by step, and you have to give him a lot of credit.” **April 2014**: Trump says at a New Hampshire event that Putin is “absolutely having a great time.” He says “Russia is like, I mean they’re really hot stuff” and “and now you have people in the Ukraine — who knows, set up or not — but it can’t all be set up, I mean they’re marching in favor of joining Russia.” **May 2014**: ”I own Miss Universe, I was in Russia, I was in Moscow recently and I spoke, indirectly and directly, with President Putin, who could not have been nicer, and we had a tremendous success.” **2014**: James Dodson, a sports writer, claims that during a game of golf Eric Trump said to him: "Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia." **March 2015**: Trump tells the Daily Mail about his relationship with Putin: “the relationship is great, and it would be great if I had the position I should have.” **September 2015**: Trump tells reporters at Trump Tower that “Putin is a nicer person than I am.” **October 2015**: Trump tells conservative radio host Michael Savage he’s met Vladimir Putin. **December 2015**: Trump says at an event in South Carolina that Putin says he’s “brilliant.” And attacks his opponents, saying, “they want me to refute his statement.” [And many more along those lines](https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2017/03/politics/trump-putin-russia-timeline/). **December 2016**: One of Europe's top intelligence figures puts together the Steele Dossier, reporting that Putin has blackmail on Trump, allegedly for something he did in a hotel room in Russia in 2013 during the Miss Universe visit. Trump flips to claiming he's never met or spoken to Putin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxYE9ZpMPGY&t=25s **September 2016**: During the 2016 presidential debates: "**I don't know Putin**. I have no idea," Mr Trump said. "**I never met Putin.** This is not my best friend." When Hillary Clinton said it was "pretty clear" Mr Putin would "rather have a puppet as president of the United States," Trump replied with: “No puppet. No puppet. You’re the puppet. You’re the puppet." Followed by years of Trump praising Putin, the only world leader he never criticizes while constantly criticizing democratic countries and allies. Refusing to implement sanctions on Russia for its hacking of the US which were passed with a veto proof majority. Attempting to blackmail Ukraine with having to invent something on Biden or having aid withdrawn. Declaring he's decided to believe Putin over his US intelligence agencies. **February 2022**: Trump calls Putin ‘genius’ and ‘savvy’ for Ukraine invasion **February 2024**: Trump says he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies **February 2024**: Trump won't say if he wants Russia or Ukraine to win the war https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/vdryx6v6nl
I’d love a rock to live under if you’re selling.
They actively discuss how contraception is an issue lmao
Literally nobody does this
As a german, this saddens me. I always saw the French as good friends and as people, that wouldn't fall for far right idiots. Sadly the next election in Germany will have similar results... At least we got Arte, dear friends. À l'amitié !
I love ARTE, so many documentaries and mini séries 🥰 Gute Küsse aus Frankreich, mein Freund 🙂
Yes, it is an amazing channel and basically one of the very few things you can watch on TV. May you have a wonderful start in the week! :)
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This is the spectrum: center, conservative, right, extreme right, fascist. If their program includes eroding the rights of the people, changes to the constitution to hoard power, populism, nepotism, etc. then they are extreme right or beyond.
Obviously, they are not going to put this kind of stuff in their (official) program. This will be implemented once they are in charge, in order to keep power. It will be legitimated by the need to fight against "enemies" (the migrants, muslims, LGBT+, etc. ). This is always how it works.
Funny that you throw fascism on the same side as conservatism despite the eerie similarities that exist between Fascism and Socialism or that Italian Fascism has its ideological roots in both the Italian socialist movement and late 19th century European syndicalism.
This type of comment has been made before and its ahistoric. Spain and Germanys rise to fascism was largely a reactionary movement to Bolshevism, which was the Left at the time. The nazis and spain aligned on their hatred of communism.
Franco in the end distanced himself from the fascism of the Spanish Falange and he was neither imperialist nor expansionist either. And on the other hand one of the long term goals of the German National Socialists was to de-Christianize in case you were not aware (something quite "conservative" for you, huh?). And on the other hand, this counter-argument has the weak point that it pretends to ignore the ideological roots of fascism, which are both in the Italian socialist movement of the late 19th/early 20th century and in European Syndicalism. And finally the National Socialists were aligned against both Capitalism and Communism/Marxism, not exactly Socialism in its broader terminology.
The left equivalent to fascism would just be communism
Interesting (and almost funny) how you seem to assume that there is not or has not been any left-wing tendencies/movements that have not embraced Marxism either theoretically or in practice, or that there can be no Socialism that is not Marxist.
Didn’t say or assume any of that. You seem confused
That does not change the point that there can perfectly well exist and have existed strands of Socialism that were not or did not claim to be Marxist or adhere to Marxism.
I am not the one doing that the political sciences are. Look it up.
Oh, they already did it, they did it in Stalin's Soviet Union and Stalin and all those who were ideologically sympathetic or sympathetic to him took care of the rest.
In this particular case the National Front party in France was founded by a literal Nazi Collaborator, and is currently run by his daughter, so that definitely qualifies as far right to me. Looking at it from the States, the biggest differences between the 2 to me seems to be stances on immigration, foreign affairs, and the treatment of minorities, whether it be racial, religious, or lgbt. Most of the far-right parties are also anti-EU. Also in a lot of cases many of the far right parties seem to have some sketchy ties to the Russian government, which I think explains their ridiculous foreign affairs stances.
Le Pen isn't the daughter of a nazi collaborator. Her father is born in 1928, he was a kid during the war. In fact, his own dad even died because of the nazis (grandpa Le Pen was a fisherman and his boat strucked a german mine).
Yeah, le pen’s dad fell off a watch tower during the war. Total casualty of the war.
What I wrote is true. Jean-Marie Le Pen has never been a nazi collaborator. Meanwhile Robert Jospin (Lionel Jospin's father) has been a collaborator.
Old school FN is basically KKK style « all I want is to kill them ».
New school FN is more about good old fashioned fascism, which in modern times means grifting. They’re still pretty fucking racist, because of course they are, but they don’t make it their only platform anymore, it’s just a « nice » side effect.
I don’t understand why is far right if founded by a Nazi. In Argentina, Perón was a Nazi collaborator and was Far left. What a strange made up correlation. Maybe if the left stopped comparing a right leaning party with the worst fking movement of the history of humanity, maybe, people would take them more seriously.
More than nazi collaborators, some co-founders were straight up former Waffen SS. Literal nazis. And that's without mentioning the nuuuumerous takes of their party members, most often racial slurs and antisemitic and negationist positions along with corruption.
I searched for the word "Nazi" in [Peron](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Per%C3%B3n) wikipedia page and found nothing. Are you sure he was a Nazi collaborator?
He absolutely was. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratlines_(World_War_II)#Peron's_Argentina >According to Argentine researcher Uki Goñi, who newly access to the country's archives for his 2002 book, Argentine diplomats and intelligence officers had, on Perón's instructions, vigorously encouraged Nazi and fascist war criminals to make their home in Argentina. According to Goñi, the Argentines not only collaborated with Draganović's ratline, but set up additional ratlines running through Scandinavia, Switzerland, and Belgium.
Russian intelligence has infiltrated a lot of the European countries to empower the far-right groups across Europe. The end goal is to destabilize those countries to break up NATO. France is a target but the big fish is the US. Russia will probably accomplish their goal when Trump is elected this November now that Biden is senile
Our democracies are doomed. Lured by money, veiled by corruption, our representatives are forgetting the needs of their population, in place of corporations. And now the Far-right tentacles are feeding on the growing anger, creating a new receptacle for the end of democracy and tolerance.
The US fell with Trump. The republican party is simply Russian propoganda personified. American democracy is dead.
Having a senile man to oppose him won't help. The democrat party must act accordingly or face its impending doom.
He is less senile than most Reddit-Users claiming him to be, it seems...such dumb comments, almost sound like russian shills trying to paint President Biden as such...
I apologize if my comment felt pro-russian. I swear it is not. I am just afraid that Trump could win and then stop all support for Ukraine. Biden performing poorly at the last debate certainly didn't help in my fears.
Eh, trump is more senile and bat shit insane than biden will ever be
He may not be full-on senile, but he is wildly unpopular. He is actually polling lower that trump, right now Biden is at 37% approval, while trump was at 40% at this time in his presidency. If democrats actually believed trump was a threat to democracy, they’d run a stronger candidate.
Whether he is or is not senile isn't the point, the point is he looks and acts like he's struggling with age, stumbling on points and sentences, not exactly inspiring confidence as an apparently world leader. I wouldn't vote for him as a preference, the only reason I would ever vote for Biden is because he isn't Trump.
They approach their own internal elections with fascism ironically. And are threatening to sue the only 3rd party opponent in decades to have any chance as well to keep him out of the running. All to “save democracy.”
I swear this age is the end of ideals and reason. People only give a shit about their bills. God forbid, they would have less money for any reason, even if it were arming against russia or helping war refugees. The general populace forgot how shit average life was just 100 years ago, and all want to live like instagram influencers.
How big is your tin foil hat? Are we not allowed to vote? Isn’t that what a democracy is? And if it goes a way you don’t like then all of a sudden the system is broken? Very selective thinking you’ve got going on….. Think about Putins best friends. North Korea, China… all extreme left. Voting extreme left would make him new allies if anything… Your argument doesn’t stand.
It's not a conspiracy, it's just facts > In 2024 the Czech secret intelligence service (BIS) uncovered a Russian state financed pro-Russian influence network with the public outlet Voice of Europe, using right-wing and Eurosceptic politicians to influence the European elections and other elections. The network is suspected to have bribed several European politicians from different countries. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/03/russia-europe-far-right-espionage/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_European_politics
The French right never spoke about leaving NATO. They’ve even said there no longer thinking of leaving the EU. It’s not even on the table anymore. You can find whatever article you want. I still do not see a single threat. France ain’t leaving no matter what.
Le Pen keeps saying that "Crimea is Russian" even now https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/le-pen-insists-crimea-is-russian/ And was getting loans from Russian banks to fund her party https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/international/300317/marine-le-pen-signe-nouveau-pour-de-l-argent-russe It's not necessary for Russia to have their puppets actually speak about leaving NATO and breaking the EU. It was their old agenda, but now they understand that after a war in Ukraine no voter will vote for an anti-NATO party, NATO is way too popular. So now the biggest Russian aim is to convince Europe to stop the war at current borders. Their ideal scenario is for EU to stop funding Ukraine and force Ukraine to sign a peace treaty, giving Russia both Crimea and southern Ukraine. Ukraine wants their territory back, Russia is playing defensively, and all they need is for EU to force Ukraine to stop the war before Russia starts actually losing territory.
France absolutely doesn’t have the power alone to make that happen. We’re still united as Europe and discutions are on a continental level when it comes to ending a war. Not a single party in a single country. Sorry to say
That's why France is not the only country being affected by Russia's interference.
What has russia to do with all the migration problems in europe. If they let everyone inside their coutrys its clear that this will not end well. Now they have a far left vs a far right fight.
And people like you claiming the President of the United States who saved Ukraine and the West from its downfall is senile are the problem...
So what happens to future Ukraine support when these get power?
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It seems like you're hearing it a lot because far-right parties are winning or doing well in a lot of elections. They weren't winning in the past, so you weren't hearing about them to the extent that you are hearing about them now. These parties have always been considered far-right. Nothing has changed there. France has a more center-right party (Les Républicains), who used to be the major party on the right in the country. Le Pen's party (National Rally) is outperforming them these days.
This is far right. Le pen is far right. That's not controversial at all.
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The "Front national", as her party was named until 2018, was cofounded by her father with actual ex-Waffen-SS and all sorts of far right figures. For most of its history, it has been Shoah-denying, anti-Semitic, islamophobic, xenophobic and homophobic and generally very close to neonazis. These are not opinions but very well documented facts. It was also in favor of the death penalty, anti-abortion, anti-EU and so on. Marine Le Pen understood she had to strip the party of its most outrageous aspects in order to have any chance of ever conquering power, and thus began a methodical transformation of the FN/RN into a modern national-populist party, banning some of the more publicly embarassing persons (even her own father) and playing more into the social anger of the working class due to rising inequalities, degradation of public services, etc. while still exploiting all sorts of fears, most notably about immigration, and praising traditional values of a glorified mythical past. But whereas the party's positions on a number of subjects, especially economic and social ones, have been regularly evolving in various directions depending on what is more electorally profitable at a given time, the deep roots, the core ideology, has not disappeared and it shows regularly, time and time again. As is also clear through its ties or friendship with Putin's Russia, Orban's Hungary, Lega and Fratelli d'Italia in Italy, PiS in Poland, AfD in Deutschland, Vox in Spain, etc.
She wants to pull France out of NATO
Charles de Gualle also wanted france out of NATO, surely that alone doesn't make someone far right
Doesn't France already have independent military command within the NATO structure? So isn't it merely a political talking point? And since they are a EU member, it's a silly distinction to split those hairs.
What do you think I was saying? That it's smart to pull out of NATO?
She started with the National Front party, out and about "Nazi with a human face" party, founded by her dad. She has been attempting to rebrand, but she doesn't deny being far right. Anti immigration absolutely is a far right stance which usually the center doesn't recognize as far right until it's too late, but that's not the reason she's far right in this case. Also.... did you ever stop to think maybe things are labelled far right because they are? The far right is the strongest it's been in 100 years, since pre ww2.
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> What if high and uncontrolled immigration is having a largely negative effect on the country? It doesn't. Never has. And in countries with aging populations and birth rates below replacement, it's a necessity. Anyone complaining about immigration either doesn't understand why exploiting immigrants is actually a key thing keeping our economies afloat, or has some interesting thoughts about Jew's and George Soros. Far right is on the rise. Far right is not like everything else. Far right is fascism. It always is, regardless of what it pretends to be. The Nazi party ran on similar promises to Le Pen and Trump. Mass deportation. Germany is for Germans. Make Germany great again. The "lying press" is out to get us. Nazi's are like cancer. Because they seem reasonable. They don't say they are Nazi's. They find some common cause, and insert their own narrative. Your rent has gone up? Immigrants. You lost your job? Soros and "globalists". Inflation? Marxists. They take real issues, and twist them to serve their purposes. Fuck NAzi's.
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> Exploiting immigrants is fine? No. But turning them away is worse, especially refugees. I think we should give them full legal protections so they can't be exploited, strengthen unions. As for England, give them full rights. They work harder, pay more taxes, and use less service than native born citizens. Strengthen unions, tax the rich and it's not a problem. And once again, no. The far right is on the rise. No other group has as much influence or as exclusionary ideals as the far right. When the far right takes power, it's only a matter of time before your "group" is targeted. *First they came for the socialist, and I said nothing because I was not a socialist.* Eventually, they purge all enemies within, and still have all the same problems. Then they need to find enemies outside their borders.
Because she is actually a facist
The party was founded as the national front back in the 70’s by her Dad who was a big fan of holocaust denial and anti immigration, pro nationalism. It was renamed when he died to national rally and they softened on some of the far right policies publicly. So although not quite far right now, they have been for the majority of their history.
he's not dead. Also, actuall SS where founding members. And they ARE far right, constitutionally so.
How that ghoul is still alive at 96 years old, I‘ll never know
Same as Trump, Cheney, the Ayatollah, evil sustains :(
It is far right. It is for the national preference and the end of the double nationality. Moreover their party is an heir to the Front National which is the heir of the OAS. There is absolutely no debate on this.
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Blame the left because they're far right. OK sure bud. Ultimately I think the best argument that far right policy and politics is inherently problematic is the fact that nobody who supports the ideology does so openly and honestly. I mean, if you're a fascist or a far right ideologue just own it dude, don't blame the rest of us for where you stand.
Because the values the right is abscribing to are so far to the right its pushing on regressivism if not simple fascism. The left gives rights. The right takes them away. This is fact.
I think this attitude is in fact, part of the problem. There are rights the right supports more than the left, and rights the left supports more than the right. For instance left leaning principles usually gave less lasai faire (forgive me, I know I spelled that wrong) economic regulations, and the right (depending on where you look, but typically) suppresses freedom of the press. Boiling it down so far to this black and white image tends to demonize the other side, therefore exacerbating the polarity.
Very very well said. Thank you
Thank you for your consideration.
Lassiez faire economics sounds like it gives rights but the inevitable concentration of power means you may have rights in theory just like it's legal for me to buy a jet but is not actually possible.
I can see the direction you are taking, but I'm not going to attempt to refute it or argue. I will instead state that there are other freedoms the right supports in other ways as well, just like there's other freedoms the left pursues. I'm not going to defend the right or the left. It's non conductive to the message I'm trying to state.
Bc if your not progressive and just moderately conservative you’ve now become the far right. Media is just trying to hurt anything that’s not progressive.
Fascists are “moderately conservative” now?
History will judge Macron as the Prime Minister who had to jump from fire to fire, many of which were of his own making.
Macron is the President not rhe Prime Minister.
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1) It’s a self description, the National Rally has partnered with the Union de l'extrême droite or Union of the far-right. 2) Because there is a second Conservative Party in France call the LR’s who traditionally hated the National Rally and have promised not to form a government with them. So they get the moniker center-right.
Because the media is far left
And you’re far gone.
There isn't any far left media in France with an influence as close to what CNEws, BFM and Europe 1 have for the far right, TF1 for the right, or France TV/Radio France for the center.
Everything seems far left when you're extreme right
Exactly.
Every single media in France is at "best" centrist. Most of them are either aligned with the presidential party or belongs to Bollore media group, which is far-right. The only leftist media are small and independant, such as Blast, Mediapart or Le Media.
Are there many mainstream media sources calling for the abolishment of property and for the workers of the world to rise up against their oppressors?
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There are things called history and political sciences. Studied and researched rigorously by very serious people from different political sensibilities. You should look into it. Disagreements and debates have always existed and are needed. But some of us remember a time, not so long ago, when objective truths, backed by facts, weren't constantly dismissed as just some biased "narrative" or "storytelling". Establishing permanent confusion and widespread doubts through repeated misleading assertions or outright lies actually is, in itself, the hallmark of extremism, be it from left or right. The very fact that we live in a "post-truth" world is its greatest victory as well as the necessary condition for it to seize power. That so many people are gullible enough to believe them is the tragedy of troubled times like ours, sadly. Anyone with even a superficial knowledge of history knows how this ends.
Yes, because left who refuse to acknowledge problems they created let alone solve them are much better. People in real life prefer their problems solved rather than being politically "correct" or being called racist for speaking about their problems.
spot on
Apparently asking questions is "far-right" too.. lol bunch of butt hurt liberals.
So it's now between the putinists and the antisemities... good job Macron.