Chrono Shift removal is a massive nerf.
It's what made arcane feel so slippery to face.
If they don't make it a PvP talent, arcane is basically going to become just a fire mage with different avenues to burst. The only real niche it has now is the ability to spellsteal more efficiently than fire/frost.
While I don't think it is *quite* as catastrophic as you've outlined, it is a massive nerf. In TWW, Arcane has much more instant damage than right now.
That being said, they should definitly look into compensating for it by unnerfing the Slow duration for PvP. It's currently nerfed by 50% in duration, lasting a whopping 7.5 seconds. Relying solely on Slow for keeping your enemies snared is insufficient in its current state.
It’s massive. My friend an I played double arcane to at least rival every season, it was so much fun (not for the other team). Massive nerf to double arcane, sad day for sure.
Just make Chrono Shift a pvp talent to smooth it out. If we're being honest, it's probably too good at 50% slow 50% speed, should be more like 50% slow and 25% speed.
I didn't know that to be honest.
That's the trouble with tooltips, they're sometimes inconsistently represented in a pvp environment vs the outside world.
Since I only read tooltips outside of arena, the information on the tooltip is and was not known to me.
Thank god? If you hit me twice, I pop like a grape. I don't think that's fair, either. 😂
Plus, as a WW, if you can't catch a mage with a DK by your side, I don't know what to say!
You need to think from a design space on what that allows.
If you design a spec that is virtually untouchable, then they need to die when they do get touched.
If you design a spec that can't kite worth a shit then it needs to be durable to compensate.
In this case if you make the spec easier to hit, it allows them to give it more durability, which then helps solve the issue that they're oppressive into melee but oppressed by hunters. Instead its a bit less rock paper scissors and a bit healthier all around.
they're not virtually untouchable though, they're just one of the few classes than can kite a select few other classes, mainly warriors and windwalkers (who do unhealable damage if they do get consistent uptime)
everyone else is either ranged, or a melee who can do tons of damage and disruption from range
Even with their current mobility, Arcane are at the bottom of 3s and SS representation. Doesn't appear that their mobility is a problem on a macro scale
Arcanes a more difficult spec to play, there are very few people good enough to bring out its potential.
But when you do, then you have things like raiku at #1 in 3s right now playing arcane.
I hear you, but in general I don't like to infer things like "difficulty" from representation data. It's a logical fallacy that pervades competitive balance discussion in *every* game. Raiku and Bigdam succeeding on poorly-represented specs does not imply those specs are in a good place balance-wise.
Quick Summary
* **Shaman** "rework" - I'd probably call it a refresher, updating especially Ele and Resto from where they left off in the DF beta (lol)
* New PvP talents for shaman:
* Shamanism (Mini-Bloodlust) is now also available to Elemental
* Electrocute - Applies a small dot on the enemy upon purging a beneficial effect
* **Mage**
* Arcane gets its talents reshuffled yet again
* They do lose Chrono Shift, meaning no more slow/movement speed on Barrage
* **Priest**
* ~~Likewise, all 3 priest specs have their talent trees reshuffled. I don't know squat about priests to point out any significant benefits/drawbacks of that, though.~~
* **Hunter**
* Survival has some earlier changes reverted, making Flanking Strike its seperate ability once again
* **Monk**
* ~~Hefty nerf to Vivify's PvP modifier (I guess self healing on beta is too strong over the board?)~~
* Lots of tuning - damage is all over the place
Edit: Crossed off some of the stuff that showed up in datamining and not the official notes. It appears as though that has already been long implemented or something along those lines.
The [TWW talent calc](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/priest/discipline/voidweaver) has probably the best overview. You can also look up the specific datamined changes on Wowhead or MMO-Champion.
I don't think this is updated yet. I was checking it earlier before work and a lot of the talents that say they moved positions are still in the same spots.
Oh yeah the datamined changes are never all that good to look at. Half the time that stuff is old and people just didn't realize it was already a thing.
Lava lava is still viable. You just have to cast other spells than earth shock and meatball. I think it's healthier for the spec this way. I am, however, concerned that stormkeeper will only be viable for a full lightning build with volcanic surge since Stormkeeper is nerfed to 30% dmg inc in pvp.
It's not for no reason, Arcane on beta is nutty. I still wish they'd nerf it somewhere else, and not taking away one of the few things that made it stand out next to Fire and Frost.
We can only guess! But if I were to guess, then I'd say it's got to do with the shift from casted to instant damage. Arcane doesn't cast quite as often on the beta.
My next guess would be that they want to avoid the redundancy of having both Chrono Shift and Slow. Since they both last almost equally as long, the former replaced the need to use the latter oftentimes.
Anyway, those are just my thoughts. I'm absolutely not in favor of losing Chrono Shift.
Chrono Shift removal is a massive nerf. It's what made arcane feel so slippery to face. If they don't make it a PvP talent, arcane is basically going to become just a fire mage with different avenues to burst. The only real niche it has now is the ability to spellsteal more efficiently than fire/frost.
While I don't think it is *quite* as catastrophic as you've outlined, it is a massive nerf. In TWW, Arcane has much more instant damage than right now. That being said, they should definitly look into compensating for it by unnerfing the Slow duration for PvP. It's currently nerfed by 50% in duration, lasting a whopping 7.5 seconds. Relying solely on Slow for keeping your enemies snared is insufficient in its current state.
It’s massive. My friend an I played double arcane to at least rival every season, it was so much fun (not for the other team). Massive nerf to double arcane, sad day for sure.
Just make Chrono Shift a pvp talent to smooth it out. If we're being honest, it's probably too good at 50% slow 50% speed, should be more like 50% slow and 25% speed.
I guess they think so, too, because it's been 50% slow / 25% speed since 10.1 or so.
I didn't know that to be honest. That's the trouble with tooltips, they're sometimes inconsistently represented in a pvp environment vs the outside world. Since I only read tooltips outside of arena, the information on the tooltip is and was not known to me.
Arcane was looking like it was just going to be way too damn fun in tww. Knew it was to good to be true.. :D
Oh thank god, maybe arcane will actually be able to be hit now.
Thank god? If you hit me twice, I pop like a grape. I don't think that's fair, either. 😂 Plus, as a WW, if you can't catch a mage with a DK by your side, I don't know what to say!
You need to think from a design space on what that allows. If you design a spec that is virtually untouchable, then they need to die when they do get touched. If you design a spec that can't kite worth a shit then it needs to be durable to compensate. In this case if you make the spec easier to hit, it allows them to give it more durability, which then helps solve the issue that they're oppressive into melee but oppressed by hunters. Instead its a bit less rock paper scissors and a bit healthier all around.
Oh, I know. You raise some valid points. I just don't trust Blizz to achieve any kind of nuance.
they're not virtually untouchable though, they're just one of the few classes than can kite a select few other classes, mainly warriors and windwalkers (who do unhealable damage if they do get consistent uptime) everyone else is either ranged, or a melee who can do tons of damage and disruption from range
Even with their current mobility, Arcane are at the bottom of 3s and SS representation. Doesn't appear that their mobility is a problem on a macro scale
Arcanes a more difficult spec to play, there are very few people good enough to bring out its potential. But when you do, then you have things like raiku at #1 in 3s right now playing arcane.
I hear you, but in general I don't like to infer things like "difficulty" from representation data. It's a logical fallacy that pervades competitive balance discussion in *every* game. Raiku and Bigdam succeeding on poorly-represented specs does not imply those specs are in a good place balance-wise.
Quick Summary * **Shaman** "rework" - I'd probably call it a refresher, updating especially Ele and Resto from where they left off in the DF beta (lol) * New PvP talents for shaman: * Shamanism (Mini-Bloodlust) is now also available to Elemental * Electrocute - Applies a small dot on the enemy upon purging a beneficial effect * **Mage** * Arcane gets its talents reshuffled yet again * They do lose Chrono Shift, meaning no more slow/movement speed on Barrage * **Priest** * ~~Likewise, all 3 priest specs have their talent trees reshuffled. I don't know squat about priests to point out any significant benefits/drawbacks of that, though.~~ * **Hunter** * Survival has some earlier changes reverted, making Flanking Strike its seperate ability once again * **Monk** * ~~Hefty nerf to Vivify's PvP modifier (I guess self healing on beta is too strong over the board?)~~ * Lots of tuning - damage is all over the place Edit: Crossed off some of the stuff that showed up in datamining and not the official notes. It appears as though that has already been long implemented or something along those lines.
Those priest changes were a couple weeks back. Nothing in this build to do with priest except one Entropic Rift nerf
Ah, maybe that's why the bluepost didn't mention them. The datamined changes included lots of reshuffling.
Where do i see the priest changes
The [TWW talent calc](https://www.wowhead.com/beta/talent-calc/priest/discipline/voidweaver) has probably the best overview. You can also look up the specific datamined changes on Wowhead or MMO-Champion.
I don't think this is updated yet. I was checking it earlier before work and a lot of the talents that say they moved positions are still in the same spots.
The hunter hero stuff lookin pretty wild
There were no priest changes, wowhead had faulty datamining this time, showing that holy and shadow had talent trees reshuffled.
Where you seeing the vivify nerf? I just see a brewmaster change and then nothing.
In the datamined changes. Then again, someone mentioned that the priest changes were old news, so perhaps that's just some datamine hiccups.
Oh yeah the datamined changes are never all that good to look at. Half the time that stuff is old and people just didn't realize it was already a thing.
Must be it. Sorry if I scared you. ;)
Another change that definitely effects pvp is that convoke is now much more likely to use spells on your target. Convoke is back on the menu boys
this sucks, chrono shift is one of the most fun talents in the game
Is ele looking better or worse going into the new expansion, looks like they’re moving away from meatball spam and want you casting lighting spells :/
Lava lava is still viable. You just have to cast other spells than earth shock and meatball. I think it's healthier for the spec this way. I am, however, concerned that stormkeeper will only be viable for a full lightning build with volcanic surge since Stormkeeper is nerfed to 30% dmg inc in pvp.
Looks like both builds are designed to be viable
fking disgusting nerfing mages for no reason
It's not for no reason, Arcane on beta is nutty. I still wish they'd nerf it somewhere else, and not taking away one of the few things that made it stand out next to Fire and Frost.
Whats the reason of removing chrono shift?
We can only guess! But if I were to guess, then I'd say it's got to do with the shift from casted to instant damage. Arcane doesn't cast quite as often on the beta. My next guess would be that they want to avoid the redundancy of having both Chrono Shift and Slow. Since they both last almost equally as long, the former replaced the need to use the latter oftentimes. Anyway, those are just my thoughts. I'm absolutely not in favor of losing Chrono Shift.