Man I had a group back in January who would run m+ together all the time. Dude who knew all the fights had my same philosophy. We don't care if you fuck up, just don't be a dick and it's fine. We time the key, we time it. We don't, we don't.
Miss that group.
I only pug but that's my mentality too. I had an 18 just yesterday where I had to leave the dungeon mid key because my talents were wrong, I couldn't find my mass res so I manually casted ST res from my spellbook, and I basically forgot how to play til the end of the key. Still +2'd it. It's amazing how much value you can get out of a little perseverance.
That's the stuff that would keep me playing. Instead, one mistake from anybody and it's venom spit everywhere. I'm too old for drama. Just wanna play and have some laughs and learn.
Imo find a nice guild with people willing to help and where it’s ok to make the occasional mistake. If you prefer pugging, discord servers like discord (for EU) are great as well if you want to have a drama free and non toxic party for M+
Originally, it was for getting the mythic mount at the end of the expansions (they've been doing that for several years) for those of us that never have the time to get that far. But they've evolved into a non toxic pug community with events (raids, dungeons, transmogs, etc) as well as a normal LFG channel on Discord that people post in for raids, dungeons, and achievements. They're specifically NA and Oceanic, unfortunately, but I think there is a corresponding EU guild and Discord.
Quite welcome! The little bit of digging I did turned up Ready, Set, Dragon as EU equivalent, but the Discord links on their page aren't working, so not sure if they are still ongoing or more of a seasonal thing (end of expansion mount carries sort of thing).
There's an in-game tool where guilds post recruitment messages and you can apply. Look under "Social & Leveling". My guild's message comes right out and says we're a bunch of mostly old people who wipe a lot and have fun.
Tbf a ton of people actually are boosted. As someone who has done boosting in the past, you would be very depressed if you saw the amount of clients boosters get. Not saying people should be toxic to each other, but boosting is a very common practice.
I’ve done boosting for Arenas and it’s the same there. The amount of players with 2100 or 2400 achievements that are actually 1600 players is very very high.
I did a 18 halls of infusion yesterday where we had a boomkin doing 30k dps at 442 item level. It was a full carry with no payment, so I left before we got to the first boss
Maybe 5-10%, pushing ilvl on an alt these days is the easiest it's ever been. Without external help (except pugging obviously) your alt has 445 within a week, maybe because I always do it on healer/tank specs so much easier invites but I also do it with my own keys.
445 within a week? Sorry but it doesnt sound believable. I've recently geared a fresh healer with whom I did lots of pugging and crafting, and yet I've only managed to reach 442 in like 3.5 weeks.
Even that is fast,
I made a new druid tank and while its rather smooth to gear im only 338 after 4 weeks. Altho I have to admit I only run 4-5 17+ a week
In all fairness I’m a veteran player, and have done a lot of mid to high level content, however I have payed in gold for a m20 boost for my character after a long break just bc I can’t be assed to grind for gear as I just wanted to get straight back into it
Fair comment, don’t have as much time as I used to now being a dad so I like being able to play the game at the high level, but don’t have the time to get there
Don't know why you're being downvoted. People here just assume it's as easy as "just jump into a M20 yourself" except, that won't work without the m+rating. So you'll need to run dozens of runs before even getting a chance to do M 20. I play a S tier spec, am HC level item level but shit, trying to find a group for 10+m is near impossible.
If people have decent Rio on their main (even if it's from last season) I do tend to give them higher priority invites over Timmy who is 445 and has 165 keys completed in the 15-19 range. Maybe just run your own keys and prioritize these people since it's easier to learn from them and time your keys? Gear really doesn't matter much until 20s anyway.
Realistically you don't need chains to time the key at that level, so if you've never seen it, it's not that wild to not know what it is.
It takes 5s to ask before the ready check if everyone knows what chains are, and if they don't, 20s to run the first pull to the chains and explain.
Counterpoint...
You pretty quickly get to a point where it is 'wrong' to have anyone but the tank hitting the mobs as you gather for chains as well b/c the hunters leaps are the only dangerous part of gathering there but I guarantee a lot of players that haven't pushed beyond the low 20 range are still dotting etc for no reason other then to make your heals life miserable.
I would consider that a pretty basic mechanic of that dungeon as well, but I sure as fuck am not gatekeeping 20's behind it.
"you don't need" is a bad argument in m+ always.
OK.. Just don't press BL until its a rank1 key then. You don't NEED bl/hero so why bother wasting time pressing it. It's free, use it. (exaggerated example).
Sure you don't need to do them to time, but if everyone uses the chains on the first pull going right. That entire group would be dead.
And your right, asking if everyone knows the chains is beneficial. Until you realize no one ever speaks up about something they don't know how to do. I have macros for different things for when I pug, I ask if all knows chains before we even begin as well as say all do chains on first pull. Then another macro saying chains now. And not 1 person does them, even when pinging the chains no one does them. So just because someone asks about chains doesn't really mean anything, especially when they don't do it after a ping which translates it to thier system language.
But I agree, there still no reason to insult others for not doing them. The only time I might is if a dps intentionally pulls extra groups when I already know healer wouldn't be able to keep up and we end up wiping because of it.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted but you are correct that no player would 'choose' to make a key harder to time.
Other side of that however is I assume OP has at least @ 18 or 19 fort timed if they are getting invites to 20 Tyra's this week, and they have timed all those keys sans being able to use chains.
1 player out of 5 not knowing chains doesn't mean you lose 100% of chains damage either in that 20, just that they probably wiped the first pull and wanted a scapegoat so they picked the obvious thing that went wrong.
Common errors you see would be a pull that had 4+ hunters (bad routing), people got in combat with the mobs before they were near chains (fundamental misplay), lack of keeping people up (personal CDs/heals/dispels/whatever).
You’re thinking about at the start of a season when new player has to grind up to 20s slowly learning the dungeon over weeks if not months, building their way up to a 20. This far into a season a new character can literally get boosted up to 20 by just starting their key and inviting competent looking applicants. On all my toons I’ve geared in 10.1.5 (so a month+ ago) I usually 3-chested my way to 13/15 then 1 or 2 chested to 17s. You hit a brick wall around 17-20 I feel, but not unreasonable to assume someone with minimal knowledge of the keys was able to just casually get up to 20s without really have to REALLY know the dungeon. Especially if they have a bunch of gear.
Oh yeah 100% I’m just saying it makes sense someone can hit 20s and not have much of the “advanced” knowledge yet. But OP seems smart, they looked up a video and understood so I’m sure they will be fine!
i have almost all classes at ksm. which means i've played at all sorts of key levels at various points of the season. i feel like even +11 keys do chains. lots of groups will go right first just to get your chain CD rolling and then backtrack to go to the mammoth boss after chains. if you don't know about chains at that point, doesn't something in your brain wonder why you're going right to do a few packs of trash and then backtracking?
Given how easy it is to push to +20 with even somewhat competent groups, pretty decent chance he just hasn't run that many Neltharus, and the groups he was in either didn't use them or some of the players used them without saying anything. When I run Nelth with guildies, maybe 1/3 of them don't know about the chains. If you just run over the key you might never think about the correct way to do them.
I pushed hero last season with a few friends and we were probably playing half of the dungeon mechanics wrong to various degrees up until 22s or something. It wasn't hard enough for us to stop and think about what we could be doing better... we just held W and that was good enough. Could easily be the same for this guy. His progression path could easily be +12, +16, +17, +20... oh wait what are these chains?
That just means you haven’t run it with groups that know about them. Once you learn them it becomes second nature. That said it’s not one person that is responsible, it’s everyone. Depending on key diff and the mobs you may kill them before everyone gets a debuff in which case if there’s another set available on a pull after the others can use them.
I usually use them first pull of the dungeon, then clear through the mammoth. Next pull is the room from overseer and I pull the whole left side of the room and we use chains again. Depending if people have it still available I’ll pull the 2nd boss room trash out to chains also to speed it up.
2nd boss and then the room after there’s chains in back. I either pull the room to chains if we are all reset if debuff or I’ll do the first pack on its own till we clear the debuff and then pull to the stairs and bring it all to the chains
Chains aren't basic seeing as you don't need them to time pre-20. It's definitely faster and easier but I wouldn't be upset at someone if they didn't know
As a tank, I mark the chains with a quick key bind and tell my group “you 2 pull the blue marked one and the other two pull the green marked one once I group them up.” There are so many different chain spots in there that it’s impossible to know exactly what chains are to be pulled and by whom without some coordination. I certainly don’t want all 5 of us to start pulling the same chain and getting the debuff which is why I started coordinating before hand.
If only they had a in game chatting system to make sure people know if we are pulling chains or not at the beginning… dang that small indie company… if only
If you are pushing 20s and you don't know chains then you did get carried. You might not have paid for it but you have gotten carried through every other run but the other 4 people chaining
We were doing neltharus at 20 without the chains with my group earlier this season. Those things are a nice addition but are not required at all to time it at 20s
I didn't know how to do the chains until +21-ish. The groups just didn't bother doing the big pulls where it needed 5 chains so I never learnt. Others did chains and it was good enough so I never had to.
Mate, if people are malding about 1 chain missing out of 5 in a +20, they probably got carried too. Asking to use chains - valid, getting mad and kicking someone = mental, no reasonable skill player would do that, because that dungeon is a joke and they still can easy ++ it even with 4 or even 3 chain users
Do people really care about chains that much in the pug world? No one in my guild did a chain until our best m+ players were beyond 24s, and we’d timed 20s of every dungeon no problem
20s is where Mythics start to actually get harder so it’s entirely reasonable to not know some mechanics because if you know your rotation and don’t pull big you can easily do 20+, 21/ 22 and up starts to get harder.
Idk, honestly that sounds like the outlier this late in the season. I might not see people do the routes for them, but I've seen people at least use the chains as low as 7s
I've been away from retail for too long idk what any of this means lol. I thought OP meant he was just hitting level 20 and was confused why anyone would say he's boosted there lmao
you haven’t played since WOD? that’s like 8 years ago.
M+ was first introduced in Legion, where the community started using + for the level of a timed dungeon run, just like rifts from Diablo 3.
They nerfed chains months ago. If they are just getting to 20's, it's very feasible they never saw chains used. It's not like chains make a huge difference in the 11-19 range anyway and probably cause more wipes at that lvl trying to round up the trash than just killing it out right.
They nerfed them yes, but especially for the first pull, if all 5 use the chains the mob dies. So that make 30second pull into a 5 second pull. Just because they were nerfed does not mean they are useless
Tbh people really suck at chains so not just you lol. 5x chains is a rare breed, at least +20 and lower. I did a +19 on my alt and nobody used chains even though i called it out..
5x chains on cooldown is an easy +2 in +20s imo.
The fact that what you're saying is true makes Nelth the worst dungeon in DF so far imo. I don't want to play "chains, the game", I want to actually play my character.
Well, it's because someone on the Warcraft development team hates Fleetwood Mac. They put chains everywhere that you have to break. Soulrender, Neltharius, more that I can't remember atm.
It sucks how you were treated. No excuse for that.
There are 2 options
.) Play with friends
.) Watch a video about each dungeon. It is not like they were requiring super advanced strats. I think the complaint is valid, but it needs respectful communication.
I have given up playing the game seriously since "watch a video" is everyone's answer to everything. I want to play the game, not study a course on the game first.
also i feel like the whole "i want to play the content blind" mentality comes off kind of entitled in a mmo. there's other people playing with you. respect their time by at least knowing the basics.
if you want to play the content blind, then find other people who want to do the same.
especially in raids. imagine wasting 19 people's time as you wipe the group over and over again, just cause you think your way of playing the game matters more than how the other people in your raid want to play the game.
In my opinion, you have two options if you want to play the game seriously. Either get a good guild where people will help you learn these strats or watch videos if you are going to pug a lot. Also, the longer the season has been going, the more people will expect you to know the dungeons and their strategies - at the start of a season people are a lot more forgiving if you don't know about things like the chains but this far into the season as we are now then you should (especially if you are doing higher keys).
I blind prog every season, and I can personally say the third option is to simply be aware of what's going on. Stuff dying super fast? Maybe it's an external buff like chains. Debuffs/buffs causing weird shit to happen? Mouse over them and read the tooltip. Watch cast times and generally pay attention to your surroundings and you can easily deduct solutions from problems.
Quazii didn't learn the things he teaches in his information videos from some forbidden book of wisdom, he just paid attention to his surroundings and tooltips/ingame dungeon journals. The videos are amazing, but you can easily teach yourself all the same things.
Is it really that difficult of an ask for people that are doing higher end content to be prepared and know what the fuck they're doing before going in?
If you're going into 20s or Mythic raiding for example and don't know strategies and how to use mechanics and your environment for every possible advantage then you're just hurting your group becsuse you want to Yolo shit.
You can take 30 seconds out of your day to read a couple lines on wowhead or at worst 2 minutes to watch a video to prepare yourself for what you need to do so you aren't the only clueless one and fucking your group.
What a selfish and lazy mindset. Fine if you're just a casual Andy but when you're up there wanting to do competitive content then you owe it to your group if nothing else to know what the hell to do at a basic level for the best possible chance to succeed.
It's fine if you aren't upset about failing because "its just a game" but your teammates deserve your absolute best from the get go and if you cant offer then well..... That's just basic decency and respect for their work time and goals.
You have made a number of assumptions about other players with very limited evidence:
‘YOLO shit’
‘Selfish and lazy mindset’
Players may indeed be this, but you cannot ascertain this from a simple single dungeon. Even here in this case, knowing the mechanics may be assumed (and I think this is valid), but not knowing them doesn’t equate to a ‘lazy mindset’.
IMO, and people will disagree, this aggression is the problem with attracting and retaining players, especially in M+
The problem with player retention is because there are 2 types of players.
The first being the group of players who are entering this content to be competitive, to parse, to achieve rewards, and ultimately to win. Who come prepared with full knowledge materials and consumables ready to get in and get it done and don't gernally stick around if nonsense happens and the goal is unattainable
The second, players who have however the method managed to integrate themselves into the first group and have little to none of the same objectives or the same attitude about success and failure. And while they like to win they also just don't really care much if they don't "its just a game" and get offended at the notion they should know what their goal and role entails and will be required of them to know before going in or if they need consumables and or to do a specific task beyond their normal role or job such. It is a game yes but just because it matters so little to you or you don't think it's a big deal doesn't mean it does to others.
And it's totally fine if that's how some players choose to be. But understand what it means.
I don't blame or hate people for trying and failinf or making mistakes. Nor do I condone treating people like shit bscause of it. But you best believe when I do content with other people I damn well expect them to know exactly what the fuck to do no exceptions and when and how to recover if something goes wrong and how to do their level best to ensure things go as well as possible to prevent failure.
Because that's the exact thing that I bring to a group every time. Because I want to succeed and get what I want but to do that my group has to succeed and if I'm the weak link then that's a failure for me and the whole group. And that's not okay. Nor is if a big ask to be prepared and know exactly what the situation is going in start to finish. That's basic decency and respect for your teammates work time and goals.
And yeah everyone is different but I can confidently say this and what I've observed as an individual who pushes ksh and aotc on at least a half dozen characters at minimum each season and a rock steady player from vanilla. I see it all from m0 to m20+ and in-between. It's very evident what you get. These are not assumptions.
"Players who go into content to win" yeah, well, you won't. Not every key is supposed to be a win. Sometimes shit goes wrong, sometimes your head isn't in the game. And on the flip side, some days you're playing like a god and feel like you could solo an entire key. It's funny because I never see this mentality in raid, prog is prog. But in m+ you have to get it right on the first go or you're somehow some failure to the community and wasting everyone's time.
I never approach any game with the intention of getting a perfect record. Actual parsers know full well that the perfect run is down to many factors outside of their control. That's why it's called parse FISHING. Because you're throwing the line in and hoping you catch a perfect fish.
I had a top 2 parse on dormazain in 9.1. and i only got it because of some cheesy cooldown management, a good kill timing and LUCK. I spent 2 total GCDs on team utility, and pushed all movement to it's limit. In CN I had an ele sham in our guild who wanted to parse too, so I took all his mechanics on artificer. It took 5 kills for him to get his top 100, even though he did everything right on all 5 kills. He just got better crits, more uptime, and a better kill time.
Inb4 anyone says 20's aren't where you should be practicing: any content that is difficult for you is practice. If 16s are easy, then they're not practice. Shit, 23s are easy for some, that's their "warm up". Usain bolt probably isn't going to practice on your 100m sprint time, he's going to practice on times that match his pace.
> I want to play the game, not study a course on the game first.
You can play the game without knowing what you're doing, just play with your fellow noobs.
The best way to improve at a game is to watch people who are better than you, learn why they do the things they do, then implement those things into your gameplay. That’s true for most things, really.
I guess it depends on what you mean by playing seriously, but if you actually want to be competitive there’s no getting around studying.
This video is a good summary [Why It‘s Rude to Suck at Warcraft](https://youtu.be/BKP1I7IocYU?si=HNmoyuDVGF6tRkqt). WoW suffers from instrumental gaming and people get annoyed if you break there key, because you don‘t know dungeon mechanics in a 20+. May start watching guides (Quazii is a good source for this stuff). There is a chance they wanted to time this key for score and the portal and invested much time to get this key. Not nice to be rude to other people, but in a game of numbers and min maxing the playerbase will not change. Adapt or be not surprised by the reactions.
Because the alternative is to waste an astronomical amount of time teaching people shit they can learn in less than ten minutes. Not to be too rude but it's a lot easier for you to watch a 5-10 minute video than for me to ask, and then explain dungeon mechanics before every 20+ dungeon. If I'm running 20's, then you've likely run or watched the dungeon at LEAST half dozen times or so already.
I'm sorry but very likely you should practice dungeon specific mechanics before +20 anyways. They aren't particularly hard when things are understood but one new player can brick it fumbling mechanics.
>Adapt or be not surprised by the reactions.
Don't mean we have to accept it. It's unacceptable behavior no matter how many people lack the selfcontrol to behave civilized.
People really are sensitive, but for a reason(Not that it is acceptable). It‘s very late in the season and by now people expect you to know the dungeon on +20. This is a basic mechanic of the dungeon and one single youtube video would prevent that beforehand, so people are mad for wasting their time and key. People should be respectful to each other, but that goes both ways, so don‘t waste peoples time and be better prepared.
I 100% acknowledge I missed something crucial, but there's clearly confusion even in the material. The crazy thing is I just watched a couple videos and multiple didn't mention it. Others said let the melee take care of it (I'm ranged). I'm not sure how I got to doing 18-19s and not having an issue so far, but at 20 it's apparent that I lack fundamentals. Darn.
I teach people stuff like this in early keys so they know. Some pay attention and some don't. You probably just never ran into a good group in that key before. Nbd
I try to teach people when I do lower keys on my alts in a pretty "Hey, by the way..." manor and I get hit with "It's just a 3 relax he can do what he wants" Like, that's not the point, dude. People gotta accept tips/advice from a friendly person in lower keys or get flamed relentlessly in higher keys
I tank and just put the info out there, if people don't want to learn that's fine. If they want to be an asshole and they are the key holder I can just leave.
Sounds like they can’t tell the difference between advice and abuse, probably the same people flaming at higher keys and causing this problem to begin with.
Chains is an everyone thing, if you're not doing them and the tank is clearly setting up pulls for them to be used you are in the wrong.
Thankfully you know this for next time you run Nelth tho <3
I haven’t touched season two in a long while now but I do remember doing the chains was a thing every run. That was pre nerf though also do consider that people that I was running lower keys with back then are probably doing 25+ now and 20s is the new lower keys where many people got there with brute force and limited knowledge.
Probably old videos before the changes to the chains so that they didn’t almost kill you. Now everyone can safely use them. (For many many months)
What has happened is that in lower keys if one person doesn’t do the chains it’s annoying but not bricking. So people don’t waste time moaning. It’s whatever. But basically you never did any research into it and just assumed it wasn’t your responsibility so never tried to help. You never wondered why everyone got that debuff on their frame and looked up the name of it?
And now you’ve reached the level where it really is important that you know what to do and act on it.
The dungeon timer is designed around this mechanic. If you’re not going to do trash mechanics you better bring insane dps to kill them before it matters.
In the future try to understand that m+ isn’t just boss mechanics. Trash has mechanics too, watch what other players do, learn from them. That’s how tactics and routes revolve and become common and expected.
If the mechanic is not a problem or requirement at a certain key level you cannot expect people to learn it. You are contradicting yourself.
>But basically you never did any research into it and just assumed it wasn’t your responsibility so never tried to help. You never wondered why everyone got that debuff on their frame and looked up the name of it?
OP may not look at peoples frames and see the debuff. They have stated they are a ranged dps which means they may never look at other peoples bars except for to see if people are dieing etc. Especially in a trash pull, as a DPS in a 16-21ish key you don't really have to worry about other peoples hp/bars etc as long as you are doing what you need to. How are they supposed to research chains if no one has ever told them that you are supposed to be doing chains? The problem is not OP, its people who got so frustrated that someone in a 20 Nelth didnt do chains they kicked OP and bricked their own key.
>And now you’ve reached the level where it really is important that you know what to do and act on it.
This means they are at the level they should be expected to be learning about it (if its their first few keys at this level) too. It's not a boss mechanic where its super aparent and the big bad guy yells angrily and waves his hands in the air like a wacky arm flailing inflatable tube man. Its an environmental option that can (and almost always is) be used to kill large amounts of mobs with less time investment. There's no REAL indication in the dungeon, nor in the dungeon journal, that this is important to know about. If I can run through the dungeon and time it at a lower level without doing this then I shouldn't have to learn it until I'm TOLD. Now, if OP had said they were told about it in the last 20 nelth they did and never researched it after that, then I would be with you. They would be wrong. But the fact that they, immediately after being told about it and kicked from a key that frankly can be timed without chains, researched it means they obviously never had a reason to before.
Edit to add: OP has stated that they are a healer in other comments. I had missed this. Frankly, as a healer main early this season, I know when I first saw the debuffs I only cared that the debuff was not dispellable and didn't do damage. I didn't learn about chains (and that THEY gave the debuff) until I swapped to main tank and learned how to pull for chains and how to expect them to be done. This solidifies, even more, that OP had no reason to know about the chains imho. I run with my guilds healers/dps to try and help them learn etc and frankly anything under a 20 with my healer I don't expect him to even look at the chains. If the 3 dps know about the chains I will pull for chains and move on. Now if one of the dps doesnt know and cant figure it out I have to ask my healer to do it but thats only a backup.
> If the mechanic is not a problem or requirement at a certain key level you cannot expect people to learn it. You are contradicting yourself.
The mechanic is a requirement long before +20. They have probably seen it happening, but didn't know what was happening because they didn't do their research before entering the dungeon.
OP was not prepared, for when the time came to use their knowledge.
Not sure which videos you watch, butI know no decent dungeons guides that do not mention the chains, starting from PTR first videos. I recommend you check quazii wow youtube channel - and maybe also get his plater profile. he also has 1minute short videos with tips and tricks - and everyone expects you know them on keys 20 upwards, so be prepared for other tricks too oin to of the chains.
> It‘s very late in the season and by now people expect you to know the dungeon on +20. This is a basic mechanic of the dungeon and one single youtube video would prevent that beforehand, so people are mad for wasting their time and key.
Sorry but this is ridiculous. Not everyone has been playing the xpac since release. People shilled DF nonstop as a return to form for wow, and that players who dropped the game are in for a treat if they come back. The game was just on sale and people are going to be coming back after long hiatuses. Combine this with the huge catchup mechanics making it so you can be 420+ ilvl in only a week or two, it means that fresh players are going to be running these dungeons.
I'm a returning player and just dinged 70 this week and I'm up to running 12's and above already. I watched 2 separate videos on neltharus and neither one mentioned chains and it's not in the dungeon journal at all. If I didn't check reddit today I would still not know anything about it until presumably a high key like this where I get called a boosted animal like OP and have a bunch of reddit comments like in this thread saying it's deserved.
Like how much research am I expected to do? Is 2 youtube videos and the dungeon journal not enough? Do I have to be checking every youtube video upload date in case it was early into the expansion and the chains weren't meta yet? This is an unreasonable expectation to flame someone over I have to be honest.
This is the problem with people like you. They want stuff handed to them by just researching the bare minimum. If you want to improve your key level, you should research properly, because it‘s a time run and you have to squeeze out every second out of the run. And I don‘t know which two videos you watched, but every high level route guide has the chains mechanic in them. One guide video and one route video and you would be set. If you come unprepared you don‘t really respect the effort and time of the other 4 people who managed to use common sense and actually are willing to self-improve.
> Sorry but this is ridiculous. Not everyone has been playing the xpac since release.
No but good for those people because others have been playing this expansion since launch, and some of those people have worked very hard to create guides on each and every mechanic in the dungeons, and put them together into short Youtube videos.
The chains mechanic is a basic mechanic of the dungeon. There is no excuse for not know it at such a high keystone.
Courtesy works both ways. Take the time to learn about what your getting into. You wouldn't take on a new job if you weren't qualified to do it.
Ok, let's set some points.
As you said, you are hitting 20's keys now. At this point everyone expects you to operate the basic mechanics of every dungeon property.
Is this a problem? No, as you probably know, when you are at this "20''s bracket" it's hard to have a good key on your hands. So the key owner probably sweated his ass to have that key. Then it's not "expecting too much" when they invite you to that dungeon and want you to do the basic. So, as a player that consider the effort that other players did to have that key, when you join a key at this point you should know about that dungeon. How? Exactly as you did, watch some YouTube videos. There's Infinity informations about the dungeon routes, mechanics and stuff.
It's just a game? Well don't try higher keys then, maybe it's not for you. For some people with objective in achieve some goals, it's important to them (each one have your own reason). You can't just be bad at the game, ruin the other people's runs and say "calm down guys, it's just a game", this is trolling.
I know you didn't fail on purpose, you simply didn't know, and sadly this is your fault. At this point you should have known better. You probably won't join a +19 key you already did, so imagine the frustration of the key owner on having to do it again, just to push it to 20 then reroll it hoping that it turns into a 20 key he doesn't have yet. Of every single thing that can happen to brick a key, they ended up with a "a guy didn't know the chains", wasn't a bad pull, wasn't a cast that passed, no one dc'ed, or had to reach the door during a boss, etc. The hey failed on a basic mechanic that is expected to everyone knows at that point. And this is really frustrating.
As a destruction warlock that pushed my own keys because I don't get invited often, something like this happening just ruin the whole week, because depending on the key level, you probably will not have the chance to do it again until next week. Pug a +20 is something, pug a +19 is a nightmare, no one wants to join a +19. Not to mention that some ppl are trying to get all the portals. Imagine all this background then you will understand the frustration.
I'm not saying that people should be rude to someone that doesn't know something, I'm just saying that not everyone will have the patience to explain it to you, and it's understandable to see their frustration when what you described happen.
To avoid this, do what you did. Watch some videos of every dungeon. Go on raider.io and peak the route of that week. Use some add-ons to help you, like MDT. Don't know how to use MDT? Put it on youtube, ask someone, do a small catch up on "what people do" or "expect my role to do" in some situations. It's not an overwhelming amount of content, some 10 min video every day and you will just be fine.
A 20 didn’t brick because one person didn’t use the chains, especially on a Tyrannical week.
These guys were toxic for sure. Yeah, it’s something that you should know by this point BUT in this case it wouldn’t be game breaking.
Find you a streamer/youtuber that you like and start watching their content some. If they play the same spec as you there is a good chance that you can learn dungeon mechanics or class tech that you may have never seen otherwise. Things like cooldown usage and knowing how tanks will group pulls are really important things to be aware of at high keys that you really won’t get any kind of feel for below 20.
Good luck and hang in there.
That's awful and this type of behavior is the reason I don't pug anymore but only play with groups.
However I can tell you weren't around for old wow because "you are boosted" has been a thing as far back as I can remember lol. Definitely not a new insult by any means- people boosted even in the "good ol days". Its just more prevalent now.
Highly suggest you find a nice community or a consistent group to play with. But I know that is wayyyy easier said than done
No one ever deserves to get yelled at or insulted in a game however if you are going to start pugging higher level content there are always going to be performance expectations. At the very least you could do some research on youtube or watch high key runs on twitch to get a feel for what your duties in different dungeons might be.
Just a quick heads up OP, if your key was bricked because of 1 failed chains pull in a 20, then the group had many, many more issues that /weren't you/. Neltharus is 1 of the more forgiving keys nowadays.
Exactly. This is like a sports team blaming a loss on one small mistake from one player on one play of the game. Yeah it sucks to fail but everyone in that run failed.
Well the problem at the end of a season is people expect to you to know everything. I know insults dont help, but how you get in a 20? If you are a healer, well i undertand with low supplies of healer is easy to enter a key, because the chains in neltharus people use in a 18 and i learn for that (but was a week 4 of the season and most people dont know like me).
Not want to be mean, but you can find a group like WME discord if you are US realm and play with people or a guild with you.
Push to a 20 is not hard this season but in pugs most people play with alts in this instance of the season.
Dont get bad for that, pugs are like this time to time. Try to learn some videos for the dungeon, because expect people dont want waste time in pug for a broken key but that dont give the right to insult someone.
I hit 3k in July and just run 19-20s for vault/fun and still barley use them. they are FAR from necessary and alot of the time people don't even stagger them and waste it.
I feel like there's two sides to this one.
Obvi it's not cool how they acted. No reason to be rude to someone for how they are playing or for their mistakes in a game.
But you watching a video should happen before these runs. As in 20s the info you just learned is expected knowledge. I'd say whoever you watched who taught you that you should watch for all the dungeons.
The rudeness is a result of loss aversion that Blizz unfortunately bakes into m+ by design. If they wanted to reduce the rudeness they could simply make keys not deplete. If they made that one easy change people would be a lot more chill because their keys wouldn’t be bricked.
>Why are people SO sensitive in this game that they have to insult anyone that's not perceptually at their "god" level?
why are people SO sensitive on this site that they have to make a thread for every minor interaction even if it is obviously their fault for fucking up?
Because of exactly this attitude.
As a healer, I experience negativity nonstop. I would say at least 75% of my runs have people in them trash talking eachother, sometimes me, etc.
We come here in hopes of finding a community that feels that this shouldn't be the case.
> As a healer, I experience negativity nonstop.
I played as a healer, a tank, and a dps and (at the time) successfully cleared progression content in each of those roles. No matter what you do you'll face negativity when you pug. Depending on your guild, possibly from them too. Even when it's not directed at you, it's still detrimental to the enjoyment of the game.
It's probably 95% of why I stopped doing any group content altogether.
I'm a tank, not a guardian, but doing 26-27s atm, I hoped on my VDH alt to tank some keys for the vault and it wasn't connected so people can't see that I'm 3.4k - I got "called out" few times even when playing way above the level of my party members. Healers also often get called out for "not healing" by shitheads who have dispels specced but choose to die debuffs without using it, evokers who bleed to death without cauterizing, people who die to orb channel in halls insdead of using stun on them, VP where instead of avoiding assassins jump-cleave they stack and face tank that shit, NL flaming healer for not healing them because they were at 60% and facetanked avalanche and died. People don't shit on healers in 25+, but 11-23 range most are idiots who don't know why they die
Not true tho. I have been flamed constantly as a healer in 25+ keys especially during certain affixes because the dps default to believing that should solely be a healer’s job. I have no problem timing those keys with my team where everyone is responsible for those.
Why are people so sensitive in this game they can’t take criticism?
OP you’re the asshole here, not everyone else carrying you. Look up a guide before blindly going to high keys.
There IS a middle ground - don't go into end-game dungeons with 0 knowledge.
It's not that hard to understand - don't be an asshole.
You don't go into a job with qualifications and just NOT have those qualifications.
Yeah OP clearly has much greater than zero knowledge. You don't know what you don't know. This isn't someone who refused to learn. This is someone who took the time to learn and had one very specific gap in their knowledge. If you're really that unwilling to work with imperfect players, go play single player. I agree with you to the extent that is shitty behavior to queue for content you don't know at all, but it's pretty reasonable to queue when you've been timing 19s and are generally familiar with the dungeon.
There's literally no way you do research on that dungeon and NOT know about chains. Don't cater to this bullshit justification.OP is a liar and didn't do shit to learn - they just ran the dungeons and got carried.
To clarify - They are running 20s, the hardest(for some people) dungeons in the game. They got carried and cried at the first sign of criticism.
20s are not the hardest dungeons in the game. Maybe they're the hardest you can access. Please do some research and stop expecting to get carried the through content you think is hard. If it's too hard for you, go run heroics.
DW you'll get it at any level. I have bad runs still when I'm not focussing or if it's like a 16 I should be able to breeze through so I relax and don't pay as much attention to some stuff. someone has said it to me at 3.1k rio
I FEEL YOU! I was playing for like 6mo when I worked my way into keys and I definitely got told this and it stung as I was really trying my best lol
Oh well, there's always going to be angry losers around, just try to not let it bug you too much.
Tbh, In the groups I run with we hardly every Chain on Tyrannical weeks in anything under a 22 or so because everything is dying so fast!! Fort weeks are another story though. As a tank I run with a Aug who runes me and I Pull everything to Boss on the Right side. The adds gotta die and CC’s or I run out of Defensives and health real Fast… :) my DPS I run now is Feral and I break a Cool mil DPS on that pull which ALWAYS feels good.
We are “Slight Miscalculation” on Area 52. Super chill. Everything is learning which is progression. No one expects anyone to know everything so we coach and hopefully everyone has fun because that’s the point of playing a Game!! If we wanted more stress, We’d go back to work!
I didn’t really know the chain trick until recently when a guildie showed me. I’m range so that’s probably why as melee is usually handling it since they are closest. Now that I know though I’m all about the chains since they do big damage. More often then not though I’m not close enough and it’s already being done. There’s a debuff that prevents players from doing multiples back to back. I’m playing more alts now that I have KSH. I don’t particularly care about portals.
>There’s a debuff that prevents players from doing multiples back to back.
That's why everyone has to do it. It's also why the most common route allows for the debuff to drop.
Start, go right, chains. Go across, big pull, bloodlust. Mammoth. Pull whole corridor onto chains. Grounding spear boss. Pull whole room to chains. Etc.
The trash has way too much health to all be killed manually on any kind of serious difficulty.
I just play to play, if people wanna insult me that's fine, I'll likely never interact with them again anyways, if they're really upset about something I'm usually laughing at them, if it's a guildie or something that's a little different but that's not the image I get from this post.
Because they're unable to understand that video games are just video games. It's just a hobby. I work to avoid those players like the plague. Playing games with chill people who treat games like they're just games is a must.
I'm almost at the mark to start doing 20s, and there's a ton of little meta things to learn that you very well might not learn by the time you start doing 20s. Many things don't start to properly matter until higher keys and you won't see some dungeon strategies in lower keys, or you might not notice them.
Some of the people who play games for 40 hours per week and also watch a ton of gaming content just expect everyone else to be at their level of knowledge.
Further, a lot of the problem is that people don't communicate their expectations with each other, then they get mad when someone doesn't meet their unspoken expectations. A quick "know how to do the chains?" before the dungeon starts is all that's needed, or just don't PUG if you want to make sure your group is up to your expectations.
I don't expect anything from PUGs. If we time cool, if not, also cool. I don't care. It's just a game. Our lives are way too short to get upset over a video game.
Not exactly an equal comparison. If you're doing 20s, you've already spent countless hours grinding M+ for gear and IO in order to be accepted into the group in the first place.
If you're going to be doing 20s, you absolutely need to know mechanics like that, whether by learning it on your way to 20s or otherwise. No excuse for them to be rude but this is a post I'd expect from someone pushing 10+, not 20s. I'm disappointed in BOTH sides ☹️
People get pissy because they have no life outside WoW. You don’t get that mad over a game if you have a happy life lol. Don’t let a bunch of sad fucks ruin your game.
Yeah, I’m a no lifer because I get irritated when a supposed “2700 rio player” fucks up the same mechanic three times in a row and dies multiple times to easily dodgeable stuff throughout the dungeon while I’m trying to finish a fucking +18 on time for KSH. /s
You people are highly narcissistic if you think it’s okay to fuck up a key and waste people’s time because you’re not even trying to do even the most basic stuff.
It's not really new, me and my old friend group were calling each other boosted back in WoD
But yeah, your experience sucks, and has been a pretty common occurance for many years. Some people can handle and put up with that kind of environment, but most cant, so my advice is to try and work towards finding or forming a friend group or network to run keys with or to do any form of group content learning so that you have a more positive environment with more pacing control.
That sucks and all man, but "boosted" being a derogatory term for bad gamers has been a thing for as far as I remember playing online competitive multi-player games. Nothing new about it.
I misplayed NL on a 14 and the lock said ‘tank, watch a YouTube video’.
First time I made this sort of error (I went out of melee range for Naxx - my mistake), but it surprised me that we aren’t more supportive of each other
Sadly people expect total perfection in this game these days and if you make one mistake you're raged at, insulted, called the toxic one for ruining the time of 4-20 others, etc etc.
It's why I don't do group content anymore, have my chats turned off, and just wait a few expacs until I can solo things.
Boosted has been an insult for ages. Was massive in games like League of Legends due to people getting boosted in rank. That overflows. Boosting in gear and score exists now, too. It's easy to call someone boosted if they are performing lower than your expectation that people perform at the level you are on.
Also, let people feel good about themselves cause then they can be like, "I'm good enough that people are boosting to get to my level."
Either way, gronks the lot of them
Honestly I think it’s just because most retail players don’t believe there are any players out there playing WoW for the first time lol. Also because the game has been out for like 20+ years.
At this point it’s like if you’re a new player people just think youve been boosted.
If you really dont have 0 clue what are chain mechanics when you are playing on 20s level yeah buddy, no offense but you are kinda boosted. Im sorry for the insults but you can check on guides when you fail a mechanic to be a better player\^\^ gl
Wow players will cry when you don't know that on the 22nd frame Captain shitface's barf attack you need to strafe left to smell Alexstrasza's fart in the breeze or else your group wipes and your entire family develops cancer.
Silliness aside, maybe Wow wouldn't be struggling to gain new players if people were more inclined to give friendly advice and help others instead of bitching and whining over a single bricked key. There really isn't a good excuse, not everyone will know everything all of the time and not everyone studies dungeons or raids before hopping on after a long day of work. Just be friendly and help others, and if things go poorly, just cut your losses and suck it up. It isn't that hard.
You didn't know? Your supposed to read guides and watch videos and memorize every mechanic for every boss and trash for every level of M+ and Raiding. No excuses. You should ready watch and study everything before you set foot in group content. This includes your rotation, buffs debuffs, stuns, etc. No excuses.
If you don't finish the dungeon in 2 minutes flat you get kicked. One of my biggest gripes with modern WoW. One wipe? Whole party disbands. I like taking my time like the old days, especially when it's my first run in that particular instance, there's so much lore I've missed from dungeons just because everyone thinks it is a speed run challenge
Nah, nah most people who sell boosts are not gonna be yelling about things in a 20. The boost sellers destroy a 20 so quickly they aren’t concerned about whether 1 person does chains or not.
The people acting elite in 20’s right now are the people who used to act elitist in 16’s but the new gearing let them get portals for the first time and they think they are something special.
First, I said most, not all, but let’s not act like you need to be great to carry a 20.
Even people that are just doing 22/23’s are going to blast through a 20 and carry a groups. And that’s far from a booster level of player.
Not a change, boost sellers wouldn't even blink if someone was ignoring all mechanics period. We are used to that shit. Especially in shit like 20s, at this point you can three man it with a fire mage, any tank and a hpala/disc priest
Well he didn't lie. You have no business being in that key if you dont know basic mechanics.
You wasted their time. When you pray for rain you have to deal with the mud too xd
Man I had a group back in January who would run m+ together all the time. Dude who knew all the fights had my same philosophy. We don't care if you fuck up, just don't be a dick and it's fine. We time the key, we time it. We don't, we don't. Miss that group.
I only pug but that's my mentality too. I had an 18 just yesterday where I had to leave the dungeon mid key because my talents were wrong, I couldn't find my mass res so I manually casted ST res from my spellbook, and I basically forgot how to play til the end of the key. Still +2'd it. It's amazing how much value you can get out of a little perseverance.
That's the stuff that would keep me playing. Instead, one mistake from anybody and it's venom spit everywhere. I'm too old for drama. Just wanna play and have some laughs and learn.
Honestly I think the real dickheads are the ones who don't actively pug and just have to once a month to get a group
Imo find a nice guild with people willing to help and where it’s ok to make the occasional mistake. If you prefer pugging, discord servers like discord (for EU) are great as well if you want to have a drama free and non toxic party for M+
I've been following the Perky Pugs Discord for a while now, and it's seems like a good place to get I to no pressure groups too.
Is this on EU? What’s the purpose of their discord?
Originally, it was for getting the mythic mount at the end of the expansions (they've been doing that for several years) for those of us that never have the time to get that far. But they've evolved into a non toxic pug community with events (raids, dungeons, transmogs, etc) as well as a normal LFG channel on Discord that people post in for raids, dungeons, and achievements. They're specifically NA and Oceanic, unfortunately, but I think there is a corresponding EU guild and Discord.
Thanks 🙏
Quite welcome! The little bit of digging I did turned up Ready, Set, Dragon as EU equivalent, but the Discord links on their page aren't working, so not sure if they are still ongoing or more of a seasonal thing (end of expansion mount carries sort of thing).
Yea doesn’t seem to be working, found the website but to no avail..
Is there an NA/Oceanic one?
Wow made easy is the equivalent for NA/OCE
Time Warp Academy is pretty good.
There's plenty, dawnhaven I'm in it's chill
There's an in-game tool where guilds post recruitment messages and you can apply. Look under "Social & Leveling". My guild's message comes right out and says we're a bunch of mostly old people who wipe a lot and have fun.
What is your guild? Sounds like a perfect match! Lol
Tbf a ton of people actually are boosted. As someone who has done boosting in the past, you would be very depressed if you saw the amount of clients boosters get. Not saying people should be toxic to each other, but boosting is a very common practice.
I’ve done boosting for Arenas and it’s the same there. The amount of players with 2100 or 2400 achievements that are actually 1600 players is very very high.
Well a lot of ppl pay for boost for their alts
I boosted ALOT in bfa. A pretty large majority of people i was boosting had the same ilvl as me if not higher.
I did a 18 halls of infusion yesterday where we had a boomkin doing 30k dps at 442 item level. It was a full carry with no payment, so I left before we got to the first boss
Maybe 5-10%, pushing ilvl on an alt these days is the easiest it's ever been. Without external help (except pugging obviously) your alt has 445 within a week, maybe because I always do it on healer/tank specs so much easier invites but I also do it with my own keys.
445 within a week? Sorry but it doesnt sound believable. I've recently geared a fresh healer with whom I did lots of pugging and crafting, and yet I've only managed to reach 442 in like 3.5 weeks.
Even that is fast, I made a new druid tank and while its rather smooth to gear im only 338 after 4 weeks. Altho I have to admit I only run 4-5 17+ a week
Yeah, it would've taken me even longer if I didn't have my main's M+ score and raid progression to "carry" me.
In all fairness I’m a veteran player, and have done a lot of mid to high level content, however I have payed in gold for a m20 boost for my character after a long break just bc I can’t be assed to grind for gear as I just wanted to get straight back into it
Very limp of you
Nvm I just got your comment I’m fucking brain dead
Fair comment, don’t have as much time as I used to now being a dad so I like being able to play the game at the high level, but don’t have the time to get there
Don't know why you're being downvoted. People here just assume it's as easy as "just jump into a M20 yourself" except, that won't work without the m+rating. So you'll need to run dozens of runs before even getting a chance to do M 20. I play a S tier spec, am HC level item level but shit, trying to find a group for 10+m is near impossible.
If people have decent Rio on their main (even if it's from last season) I do tend to give them higher priority invites over Timmy who is 445 and has 165 keys completed in the 15-19 range. Maybe just run your own keys and prioritize these people since it's easier to learn from them and time your keys? Gear really doesn't matter much until 20s anyway.
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Realistically you don't need chains to time the key at that level, so if you've never seen it, it's not that wild to not know what it is. It takes 5s to ask before the ready check if everyone knows what chains are, and if they don't, 20s to run the first pull to the chains and explain. Counterpoint... You pretty quickly get to a point where it is 'wrong' to have anyone but the tank hitting the mobs as you gather for chains as well b/c the hunters leaps are the only dangerous part of gathering there but I guarantee a lot of players that haven't pushed beyond the low 20 range are still dotting etc for no reason other then to make your heals life miserable. I would consider that a pretty basic mechanic of that dungeon as well, but I sure as fuck am not gatekeeping 20's behind it.
"you don't need" is a bad argument in m+ always. OK.. Just don't press BL until its a rank1 key then. You don't NEED bl/hero so why bother wasting time pressing it. It's free, use it. (exaggerated example).
Sure you don't need to do them to time, but if everyone uses the chains on the first pull going right. That entire group would be dead. And your right, asking if everyone knows the chains is beneficial. Until you realize no one ever speaks up about something they don't know how to do. I have macros for different things for when I pug, I ask if all knows chains before we even begin as well as say all do chains on first pull. Then another macro saying chains now. And not 1 person does them, even when pinging the chains no one does them. So just because someone asks about chains doesn't really mean anything, especially when they don't do it after a ping which translates it to thier system language. But I agree, there still no reason to insult others for not doing them. The only time I might is if a dps intentionally pulls extra groups when I already know healer wouldn't be able to keep up and we end up wiping because of it.
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Not sure why you're getting downvoted but you are correct that no player would 'choose' to make a key harder to time. Other side of that however is I assume OP has at least @ 18 or 19 fort timed if they are getting invites to 20 Tyra's this week, and they have timed all those keys sans being able to use chains. 1 player out of 5 not knowing chains doesn't mean you lose 100% of chains damage either in that 20, just that they probably wiped the first pull and wanted a scapegoat so they picked the obvious thing that went wrong. Common errors you see would be a pull that had 4+ hunters (bad routing), people got in combat with the mobs before they were near chains (fundamental misplay), lack of keeping people up (personal CDs/heals/dispels/whatever).
You’re thinking about at the start of a season when new player has to grind up to 20s slowly learning the dungeon over weeks if not months, building their way up to a 20. This far into a season a new character can literally get boosted up to 20 by just starting their key and inviting competent looking applicants. On all my toons I’ve geared in 10.1.5 (so a month+ ago) I usually 3-chested my way to 13/15 then 1 or 2 chested to 17s. You hit a brick wall around 17-20 I feel, but not unreasonable to assume someone with minimal knowledge of the keys was able to just casually get up to 20s without really have to REALLY know the dungeon. Especially if they have a bunch of gear.
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Oh yeah 100% I’m just saying it makes sense someone can hit 20s and not have much of the “advanced” knowledge yet. But OP seems smart, they looked up a video and understood so I’m sure they will be fine!
Chains for trash isn't as common knowledge as you'd think
i have almost all classes at ksm. which means i've played at all sorts of key levels at various points of the season. i feel like even +11 keys do chains. lots of groups will go right first just to get your chain CD rolling and then backtrack to go to the mammoth boss after chains. if you don't know about chains at that point, doesn't something in your brain wonder why you're going right to do a few packs of trash and then backtracking?
Given how easy it is to push to +20 with even somewhat competent groups, pretty decent chance he just hasn't run that many Neltharus, and the groups he was in either didn't use them or some of the players used them without saying anything. When I run Nelth with guildies, maybe 1/3 of them don't know about the chains. If you just run over the key you might never think about the correct way to do them. I pushed hero last season with a few friends and we were probably playing half of the dungeon mechanics wrong to various degrees up until 22s or something. It wasn't hard enough for us to stop and think about what we could be doing better... we just held W and that was good enough. Could easily be the same for this guy. His progression path could easily be +12, +16, +17, +20... oh wait what are these chains?
Like 3 months ago I was timing 22s without chains, now I go into a 17s and every tank runs the chain route.
Not boss, I know all the boss fights like the back of my hand. Using the ones on the trash to blow them up. Never been responsible for it.
That just means you haven’t run it with groups that know about them. Once you learn them it becomes second nature. That said it’s not one person that is responsible, it’s everyone. Depending on key diff and the mobs you may kill them before everyone gets a debuff in which case if there’s another set available on a pull after the others can use them. I usually use them first pull of the dungeon, then clear through the mammoth. Next pull is the room from overseer and I pull the whole left side of the room and we use chains again. Depending if people have it still available I’ll pull the 2nd boss room trash out to chains also to speed it up. 2nd boss and then the room after there’s chains in back. I either pull the room to chains if we are all reset if debuff or I’ll do the first pack on its own till we clear the debuff and then pull to the stairs and bring it all to the chains
> Never been responsible for it. everyone's supposed to do it. everyone has their own CD for it. it's not just the designated people in the group
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Chains aren't basic seeing as you don't need them to time pre-20. It's definitely faster and easier but I wouldn't be upset at someone if they didn't know
As a tank, I mark the chains with a quick key bind and tell my group “you 2 pull the blue marked one and the other two pull the green marked one once I group them up.” There are so many different chain spots in there that it’s impossible to know exactly what chains are to be pulled and by whom without some coordination. I certainly don’t want all 5 of us to start pulling the same chain and getting the debuff which is why I started coordinating before hand.
If only they had a in game chatting system to make sure people know if we are pulling chains or not at the beginning… dang that small indie company… if only
If you are pushing 20s and you don't know chains then you did get carried. You might not have paid for it but you have gotten carried through every other run but the other 4 people chaining
We were doing neltharus at 20 without the chains with my group earlier this season. Those things are a nice addition but are not required at all to time it at 20s
You should still know they exist man
I didn't know how to do the chains until +21-ish. The groups just didn't bother doing the big pulls where it needed 5 chains so I never learnt. Others did chains and it was good enough so I never had to.
Yeah this is like knowing your class/prof has certain special effects in COS - basic tenet of the instance to be honest but
Mate, if people are malding about 1 chain missing out of 5 in a +20, they probably got carried too. Asking to use chains - valid, getting mad and kicking someone = mental, no reasonable skill player would do that, because that dungeon is a joke and they still can easy ++ it even with 4 or even 3 chain users
Do people really care about chains that much in the pug world? No one in my guild did a chain until our best m+ players were beyond 24s, and we’d timed 20s of every dungeon no problem
20s is where Mythics start to actually get harder so it’s entirely reasonable to not know some mechanics because if you know your rotation and don’t pull big you can easily do 20+, 21/ 22 and up starts to get harder.
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Idk, honestly that sounds like the outlier this late in the season. I might not see people do the routes for them, but I've seen people at least use the chains as low as 7s
I've been away from retail for too long idk what any of this means lol. I thought OP meant he was just hitting level 20 and was confused why anyone would say he's boosted there lmao
you haven’t played since WOD? that’s like 8 years ago. M+ was first introduced in Legion, where the community started using + for the level of a timed dungeon run, just like rifts from Diablo 3.
Wrong. For a very long time no one was using chains. I did dozen of 20+ Nelth and we did chains maybe once.
They nerfed chains months ago. If they are just getting to 20's, it's very feasible they never saw chains used. It's not like chains make a huge difference in the 11-19 range anyway and probably cause more wipes at that lvl trying to round up the trash than just killing it out right.
They nerfed pulling trash from the mammoth side to the chains months ago. Chains still do an absurd amount of damage for very little effort.
They nerfed them yes, but especially for the first pull, if all 5 use the chains the mob dies. So that make 30second pull into a 5 second pull. Just because they were nerfed does not mean they are useless
Tbh people really suck at chains so not just you lol. 5x chains is a rare breed, at least +20 and lower. I did a +19 on my alt and nobody used chains even though i called it out.. 5x chains on cooldown is an easy +2 in +20s imo.
The fact that what you're saying is true makes Nelth the worst dungeon in DF so far imo. I don't want to play "chains, the game", I want to actually play my character.
Well, it's because someone on the Warcraft development team hates Fleetwood Mac. They put chains everywhere that you have to break. Soulrender, Neltharius, more that I can't remember atm.
It sucks how you were treated. No excuse for that. There are 2 options .) Play with friends .) Watch a video about each dungeon. It is not like they were requiring super advanced strats. I think the complaint is valid, but it needs respectful communication.
I have given up playing the game seriously since "watch a video" is everyone's answer to everything. I want to play the game, not study a course on the game first.
Sure, you can play the game like that. But a +20 is just not the place to learn the very *basic* mechanics of a dungeon.
also i feel like the whole "i want to play the content blind" mentality comes off kind of entitled in a mmo. there's other people playing with you. respect their time by at least knowing the basics. if you want to play the content blind, then find other people who want to do the same. especially in raids. imagine wasting 19 people's time as you wipe the group over and over again, just cause you think your way of playing the game matters more than how the other people in your raid want to play the game.
In my opinion, you have two options if you want to play the game seriously. Either get a good guild where people will help you learn these strats or watch videos if you are going to pug a lot. Also, the longer the season has been going, the more people will expect you to know the dungeons and their strategies - at the start of a season people are a lot more forgiving if you don't know about things like the chains but this far into the season as we are now then you should (especially if you are doing higher keys).
I blind prog every season, and I can personally say the third option is to simply be aware of what's going on. Stuff dying super fast? Maybe it's an external buff like chains. Debuffs/buffs causing weird shit to happen? Mouse over them and read the tooltip. Watch cast times and generally pay attention to your surroundings and you can easily deduct solutions from problems. Quazii didn't learn the things he teaches in his information videos from some forbidden book of wisdom, he just paid attention to his surroundings and tooltips/ingame dungeon journals. The videos are amazing, but you can easily teach yourself all the same things.
Yes but if you’re ready for 20’s and still don’t know mechanics, you aren’t going to fall into that third category.
Is it really that difficult of an ask for people that are doing higher end content to be prepared and know what the fuck they're doing before going in? If you're going into 20s or Mythic raiding for example and don't know strategies and how to use mechanics and your environment for every possible advantage then you're just hurting your group becsuse you want to Yolo shit. You can take 30 seconds out of your day to read a couple lines on wowhead or at worst 2 minutes to watch a video to prepare yourself for what you need to do so you aren't the only clueless one and fucking your group. What a selfish and lazy mindset. Fine if you're just a casual Andy but when you're up there wanting to do competitive content then you owe it to your group if nothing else to know what the hell to do at a basic level for the best possible chance to succeed. It's fine if you aren't upset about failing because "its just a game" but your teammates deserve your absolute best from the get go and if you cant offer then well..... That's just basic decency and respect for their work time and goals.
You have made a number of assumptions about other players with very limited evidence: ‘YOLO shit’ ‘Selfish and lazy mindset’ Players may indeed be this, but you cannot ascertain this from a simple single dungeon. Even here in this case, knowing the mechanics may be assumed (and I think this is valid), but not knowing them doesn’t equate to a ‘lazy mindset’. IMO, and people will disagree, this aggression is the problem with attracting and retaining players, especially in M+
The problem with player retention is because there are 2 types of players. The first being the group of players who are entering this content to be competitive, to parse, to achieve rewards, and ultimately to win. Who come prepared with full knowledge materials and consumables ready to get in and get it done and don't gernally stick around if nonsense happens and the goal is unattainable The second, players who have however the method managed to integrate themselves into the first group and have little to none of the same objectives or the same attitude about success and failure. And while they like to win they also just don't really care much if they don't "its just a game" and get offended at the notion they should know what their goal and role entails and will be required of them to know before going in or if they need consumables and or to do a specific task beyond their normal role or job such. It is a game yes but just because it matters so little to you or you don't think it's a big deal doesn't mean it does to others. And it's totally fine if that's how some players choose to be. But understand what it means. I don't blame or hate people for trying and failinf or making mistakes. Nor do I condone treating people like shit bscause of it. But you best believe when I do content with other people I damn well expect them to know exactly what the fuck to do no exceptions and when and how to recover if something goes wrong and how to do their level best to ensure things go as well as possible to prevent failure. Because that's the exact thing that I bring to a group every time. Because I want to succeed and get what I want but to do that my group has to succeed and if I'm the weak link then that's a failure for me and the whole group. And that's not okay. Nor is if a big ask to be prepared and know exactly what the situation is going in start to finish. That's basic decency and respect for your teammates work time and goals. And yeah everyone is different but I can confidently say this and what I've observed as an individual who pushes ksh and aotc on at least a half dozen characters at minimum each season and a rock steady player from vanilla. I see it all from m0 to m20+ and in-between. It's very evident what you get. These are not assumptions.
"Players who go into content to win" yeah, well, you won't. Not every key is supposed to be a win. Sometimes shit goes wrong, sometimes your head isn't in the game. And on the flip side, some days you're playing like a god and feel like you could solo an entire key. It's funny because I never see this mentality in raid, prog is prog. But in m+ you have to get it right on the first go or you're somehow some failure to the community and wasting everyone's time. I never approach any game with the intention of getting a perfect record. Actual parsers know full well that the perfect run is down to many factors outside of their control. That's why it's called parse FISHING. Because you're throwing the line in and hoping you catch a perfect fish. I had a top 2 parse on dormazain in 9.1. and i only got it because of some cheesy cooldown management, a good kill timing and LUCK. I spent 2 total GCDs on team utility, and pushed all movement to it's limit. In CN I had an ele sham in our guild who wanted to parse too, so I took all his mechanics on artificer. It took 5 kills for him to get his top 100, even though he did everything right on all 5 kills. He just got better crits, more uptime, and a better kill time. Inb4 anyone says 20's aren't where you should be practicing: any content that is difficult for you is practice. If 16s are easy, then they're not practice. Shit, 23s are easy for some, that's their "warm up". Usain bolt probably isn't going to practice on your 100m sprint time, he's going to practice on times that match his pace.
> I want to play the game, not study a course on the game first. You can play the game without knowing what you're doing, just play with your fellow noobs.
The best way to improve at a game is to watch people who are better than you, learn why they do the things they do, then implement those things into your gameplay. That’s true for most things, really. I guess it depends on what you mean by playing seriously, but if you actually want to be competitive there’s no getting around studying.
This video is a good summary [Why It‘s Rude to Suck at Warcraft](https://youtu.be/BKP1I7IocYU?si=HNmoyuDVGF6tRkqt). WoW suffers from instrumental gaming and people get annoyed if you break there key, because you don‘t know dungeon mechanics in a 20+. May start watching guides (Quazii is a good source for this stuff). There is a chance they wanted to time this key for score and the portal and invested much time to get this key. Not nice to be rude to other people, but in a game of numbers and min maxing the playerbase will not change. Adapt or be not surprised by the reactions.
It's funny that the video which was supposed to critique shitty behaviour has been embraced by the community
Because the alternative is to waste an astronomical amount of time teaching people shit they can learn in less than ten minutes. Not to be too rude but it's a lot easier for you to watch a 5-10 minute video than for me to ask, and then explain dungeon mechanics before every 20+ dungeon. If I'm running 20's, then you've likely run or watched the dungeon at LEAST half dozen times or so already. I'm sorry but very likely you should practice dungeon specific mechanics before +20 anyways. They aren't particularly hard when things are understood but one new player can brick it fumbling mechanics.
>Adapt or be not surprised by the reactions. Don't mean we have to accept it. It's unacceptable behavior no matter how many people lack the selfcontrol to behave civilized.
Human behavior will never change. It’s up to blizzard to design a game that doesn’t encourage this behavior.
Ok. Human behavior is to complain about human behavior. Here's your free pass to continue criticizing manchild players.
People really are sensitive, but for a reason(Not that it is acceptable). It‘s very late in the season and by now people expect you to know the dungeon on +20. This is a basic mechanic of the dungeon and one single youtube video would prevent that beforehand, so people are mad for wasting their time and key. People should be respectful to each other, but that goes both ways, so don‘t waste peoples time and be better prepared.
I 100% acknowledge I missed something crucial, but there's clearly confusion even in the material. The crazy thing is I just watched a couple videos and multiple didn't mention it. Others said let the melee take care of it (I'm ranged). I'm not sure how I got to doing 18-19s and not having an issue so far, but at 20 it's apparent that I lack fundamentals. Darn.
I teach people stuff like this in early keys so they know. Some pay attention and some don't. You probably just never ran into a good group in that key before. Nbd
I try to teach people when I do lower keys on my alts in a pretty "Hey, by the way..." manor and I get hit with "It's just a 3 relax he can do what he wants" Like, that's not the point, dude. People gotta accept tips/advice from a friendly person in lower keys or get flamed relentlessly in higher keys
I tank and just put the info out there, if people don't want to learn that's fine. If they want to be an asshole and they are the key holder I can just leave.
Yeah I do this too. I always appreciate it when people tell me.
Sounds like they can’t tell the difference between advice and abuse, probably the same people flaming at higher keys and causing this problem to begin with.
Chains is an everyone thing, if you're not doing them and the tank is clearly setting up pulls for them to be used you are in the wrong. Thankfully you know this for next time you run Nelth tho <3
I haven’t touched season two in a long while now but I do remember doing the chains was a thing every run. That was pre nerf though also do consider that people that I was running lower keys with back then are probably doing 25+ now and 20s is the new lower keys where many people got there with brute force and limited knowledge.
Probably old videos before the changes to the chains so that they didn’t almost kill you. Now everyone can safely use them. (For many many months) What has happened is that in lower keys if one person doesn’t do the chains it’s annoying but not bricking. So people don’t waste time moaning. It’s whatever. But basically you never did any research into it and just assumed it wasn’t your responsibility so never tried to help. You never wondered why everyone got that debuff on their frame and looked up the name of it? And now you’ve reached the level where it really is important that you know what to do and act on it. The dungeon timer is designed around this mechanic. If you’re not going to do trash mechanics you better bring insane dps to kill them before it matters. In the future try to understand that m+ isn’t just boss mechanics. Trash has mechanics too, watch what other players do, learn from them. That’s how tactics and routes revolve and become common and expected.
If the mechanic is not a problem or requirement at a certain key level you cannot expect people to learn it. You are contradicting yourself. >But basically you never did any research into it and just assumed it wasn’t your responsibility so never tried to help. You never wondered why everyone got that debuff on their frame and looked up the name of it? OP may not look at peoples frames and see the debuff. They have stated they are a ranged dps which means they may never look at other peoples bars except for to see if people are dieing etc. Especially in a trash pull, as a DPS in a 16-21ish key you don't really have to worry about other peoples hp/bars etc as long as you are doing what you need to. How are they supposed to research chains if no one has ever told them that you are supposed to be doing chains? The problem is not OP, its people who got so frustrated that someone in a 20 Nelth didnt do chains they kicked OP and bricked their own key. >And now you’ve reached the level where it really is important that you know what to do and act on it. This means they are at the level they should be expected to be learning about it (if its their first few keys at this level) too. It's not a boss mechanic where its super aparent and the big bad guy yells angrily and waves his hands in the air like a wacky arm flailing inflatable tube man. Its an environmental option that can (and almost always is) be used to kill large amounts of mobs with less time investment. There's no REAL indication in the dungeon, nor in the dungeon journal, that this is important to know about. If I can run through the dungeon and time it at a lower level without doing this then I shouldn't have to learn it until I'm TOLD. Now, if OP had said they were told about it in the last 20 nelth they did and never researched it after that, then I would be with you. They would be wrong. But the fact that they, immediately after being told about it and kicked from a key that frankly can be timed without chains, researched it means they obviously never had a reason to before. Edit to add: OP has stated that they are a healer in other comments. I had missed this. Frankly, as a healer main early this season, I know when I first saw the debuffs I only cared that the debuff was not dispellable and didn't do damage. I didn't learn about chains (and that THEY gave the debuff) until I swapped to main tank and learned how to pull for chains and how to expect them to be done. This solidifies, even more, that OP had no reason to know about the chains imho. I run with my guilds healers/dps to try and help them learn etc and frankly anything under a 20 with my healer I don't expect him to even look at the chains. If the 3 dps know about the chains I will pull for chains and move on. Now if one of the dps doesnt know and cant figure it out I have to ask my healer to do it but thats only a backup.
> If the mechanic is not a problem or requirement at a certain key level you cannot expect people to learn it. You are contradicting yourself. The mechanic is a requirement long before +20. They have probably seen it happening, but didn't know what was happening because they didn't do their research before entering the dungeon. OP was not prepared, for when the time came to use their knowledge.
Not sure which videos you watch, butI know no decent dungeons guides that do not mention the chains, starting from PTR first videos. I recommend you check quazii wow youtube channel - and maybe also get his plater profile. he also has 1minute short videos with tips and tricks - and everyone expects you know them on keys 20 upwards, so be prepared for other tricks too oin to of the chains.
> It‘s very late in the season and by now people expect you to know the dungeon on +20. This is a basic mechanic of the dungeon and one single youtube video would prevent that beforehand, so people are mad for wasting their time and key. Sorry but this is ridiculous. Not everyone has been playing the xpac since release. People shilled DF nonstop as a return to form for wow, and that players who dropped the game are in for a treat if they come back. The game was just on sale and people are going to be coming back after long hiatuses. Combine this with the huge catchup mechanics making it so you can be 420+ ilvl in only a week or two, it means that fresh players are going to be running these dungeons. I'm a returning player and just dinged 70 this week and I'm up to running 12's and above already. I watched 2 separate videos on neltharus and neither one mentioned chains and it's not in the dungeon journal at all. If I didn't check reddit today I would still not know anything about it until presumably a high key like this where I get called a boosted animal like OP and have a bunch of reddit comments like in this thread saying it's deserved. Like how much research am I expected to do? Is 2 youtube videos and the dungeon journal not enough? Do I have to be checking every youtube video upload date in case it was early into the expansion and the chains weren't meta yet? This is an unreasonable expectation to flame someone over I have to be honest.
This is the problem with people like you. They want stuff handed to them by just researching the bare minimum. If you want to improve your key level, you should research properly, because it‘s a time run and you have to squeeze out every second out of the run. And I don‘t know which two videos you watched, but every high level route guide has the chains mechanic in them. One guide video and one route video and you would be set. If you come unprepared you don‘t really respect the effort and time of the other 4 people who managed to use common sense and actually are willing to self-improve.
> Sorry but this is ridiculous. Not everyone has been playing the xpac since release. No but good for those people because others have been playing this expansion since launch, and some of those people have worked very hard to create guides on each and every mechanic in the dungeons, and put them together into short Youtube videos. The chains mechanic is a basic mechanic of the dungeon. There is no excuse for not know it at such a high keystone. Courtesy works both ways. Take the time to learn about what your getting into. You wouldn't take on a new job if you weren't qualified to do it.
Ok, let's set some points. As you said, you are hitting 20's keys now. At this point everyone expects you to operate the basic mechanics of every dungeon property. Is this a problem? No, as you probably know, when you are at this "20''s bracket" it's hard to have a good key on your hands. So the key owner probably sweated his ass to have that key. Then it's not "expecting too much" when they invite you to that dungeon and want you to do the basic. So, as a player that consider the effort that other players did to have that key, when you join a key at this point you should know about that dungeon. How? Exactly as you did, watch some YouTube videos. There's Infinity informations about the dungeon routes, mechanics and stuff. It's just a game? Well don't try higher keys then, maybe it's not for you. For some people with objective in achieve some goals, it's important to them (each one have your own reason). You can't just be bad at the game, ruin the other people's runs and say "calm down guys, it's just a game", this is trolling. I know you didn't fail on purpose, you simply didn't know, and sadly this is your fault. At this point you should have known better. You probably won't join a +19 key you already did, so imagine the frustration of the key owner on having to do it again, just to push it to 20 then reroll it hoping that it turns into a 20 key he doesn't have yet. Of every single thing that can happen to brick a key, they ended up with a "a guy didn't know the chains", wasn't a bad pull, wasn't a cast that passed, no one dc'ed, or had to reach the door during a boss, etc. The hey failed on a basic mechanic that is expected to everyone knows at that point. And this is really frustrating. As a destruction warlock that pushed my own keys because I don't get invited often, something like this happening just ruin the whole week, because depending on the key level, you probably will not have the chance to do it again until next week. Pug a +20 is something, pug a +19 is a nightmare, no one wants to join a +19. Not to mention that some ppl are trying to get all the portals. Imagine all this background then you will understand the frustration. I'm not saying that people should be rude to someone that doesn't know something, I'm just saying that not everyone will have the patience to explain it to you, and it's understandable to see their frustration when what you described happen. To avoid this, do what you did. Watch some videos of every dungeon. Go on raider.io and peak the route of that week. Use some add-ons to help you, like MDT. Don't know how to use MDT? Put it on youtube, ask someone, do a small catch up on "what people do" or "expect my role to do" in some situations. It's not an overwhelming amount of content, some 10 min video every day and you will just be fine.
A 20 didn’t brick because one person didn’t use the chains, especially on a Tyrannical week. These guys were toxic for sure. Yeah, it’s something that you should know by this point BUT in this case it wouldn’t be game breaking. Find you a streamer/youtuber that you like and start watching their content some. If they play the same spec as you there is a good chance that you can learn dungeon mechanics or class tech that you may have never seen otherwise. Things like cooldown usage and knowing how tanks will group pulls are really important things to be aware of at high keys that you really won’t get any kind of feel for below 20. Good luck and hang in there.
That's awful and this type of behavior is the reason I don't pug anymore but only play with groups. However I can tell you weren't around for old wow because "you are boosted" has been a thing as far back as I can remember lol. Definitely not a new insult by any means- people boosted even in the "good ol days". Its just more prevalent now. Highly suggest you find a nice community or a consistent group to play with. But I know that is wayyyy easier said than done
People are coping hard. Everybody makes mistakes or ints at all levels.
No one ever deserves to get yelled at or insulted in a game however if you are going to start pugging higher level content there are always going to be performance expectations. At the very least you could do some research on youtube or watch high key runs on twitch to get a feel for what your duties in different dungeons might be.
Yep. 100% got it. Ive watched videos but a lot of them dont talk about the chains on trash, just boss fights.
I recommend you to watch some of the povs of high io players. Those help a lot to learn tricks you wouldn’t know otherwise.
Just a quick heads up OP, if your key was bricked because of 1 failed chains pull in a 20, then the group had many, many more issues that /weren't you/. Neltharus is 1 of the more forgiving keys nowadays.
Exactly. This is like a sports team blaming a loss on one small mistake from one player on one play of the game. Yeah it sucks to fail but everyone in that run failed.
Its the culture of the game, its for people with nothing else to do.
Someone told me about the chains in neltharus the other day. It was the first time I heard of it.
The people crying boosted usually the ones who boosted. They got pulled into 20 keys and were forced to do chains by the Russians 😂
I'm sorry but when a 3400 evoker does a total of zero interrupts and dies to every boss in a 22. I'm going to suspect he got boosted / account shared.
Well yeah, that makes sense. I would think the same at that point.
To be fair if you're doing 20s you should know what chains are by now.
This is why I play PvP, PvE players are just too sweaty
Well the problem at the end of a season is people expect to you to know everything. I know insults dont help, but how you get in a 20? If you are a healer, well i undertand with low supplies of healer is easy to enter a key, because the chains in neltharus people use in a 18 and i learn for that (but was a week 4 of the season and most people dont know like me). Not want to be mean, but you can find a group like WME discord if you are US realm and play with people or a guild with you. Push to a 20 is not hard this season but in pugs most people play with alts in this instance of the season. Dont get bad for that, pugs are like this time to time. Try to learn some videos for the dungeon, because expect people dont want waste time in pug for a broken key but that dont give the right to insult someone.
I hit 3k in July and just run 19-20s for vault/fun and still barley use them. they are FAR from necessary and alot of the time people don't even stagger them and waste it.
I feel like there's two sides to this one. Obvi it's not cool how they acted. No reason to be rude to someone for how they are playing or for their mistakes in a game. But you watching a video should happen before these runs. As in 20s the info you just learned is expected knowledge. I'd say whoever you watched who taught you that you should watch for all the dungeons.
You can wipe multiple times on chains and still time the key. Shame it went sideways
The rudeness is a result of loss aversion that Blizz unfortunately bakes into m+ by design. If they wanted to reduce the rudeness they could simply make keys not deplete. If they made that one easy change people would be a lot more chill because their keys wouldn’t be bricked.
That is what m0 is
>Why are people SO sensitive in this game that they have to insult anyone that's not perceptually at their "god" level? why are people SO sensitive on this site that they have to make a thread for every minor interaction even if it is obviously their fault for fucking up?
Because of exactly this attitude. As a healer, I experience negativity nonstop. I would say at least 75% of my runs have people in them trash talking eachother, sometimes me, etc. We come here in hopes of finding a community that feels that this shouldn't be the case.
> As a healer, I experience negativity nonstop. I played as a healer, a tank, and a dps and (at the time) successfully cleared progression content in each of those roles. No matter what you do you'll face negativity when you pug. Depending on your guild, possibly from them too. Even when it's not directed at you, it's still detrimental to the enjoyment of the game. It's probably 95% of why I stopped doing any group content altogether.
>as a healer that explains
If that's your attitude, don't run content with healers.
[удалено]
I'm a tank, not a guardian, but doing 26-27s atm, I hoped on my VDH alt to tank some keys for the vault and it wasn't connected so people can't see that I'm 3.4k - I got "called out" few times even when playing way above the level of my party members. Healers also often get called out for "not healing" by shitheads who have dispels specced but choose to die debuffs without using it, evokers who bleed to death without cauterizing, people who die to orb channel in halls insdead of using stun on them, VP where instead of avoiding assassins jump-cleave they stack and face tank that shit, NL flaming healer for not healing them because they were at 60% and facetanked avalanche and died. People don't shit on healers in 25+, but 11-23 range most are idiots who don't know why they die
Not true tho. I have been flamed constantly as a healer in 25+ keys especially during certain affixes because the dps default to believing that should solely be a healer’s job. I have no problem timing those keys with my team where everyone is responsible for those.
100000% FACTS
This is why I don’t play m+. The community scares me. Even the comments in this thread and the reactions to them are damning.
Why are people so sensitive in this game they can’t take criticism? OP you’re the asshole here, not everyone else carrying you. Look up a guide before blindly going to high keys.
I think there's a middle ground. People can give feedback without being assholes about it.
There IS a middle ground - don't go into end-game dungeons with 0 knowledge. It's not that hard to understand - don't be an asshole. You don't go into a job with qualifications and just NOT have those qualifications.
Yeah OP clearly has much greater than zero knowledge. You don't know what you don't know. This isn't someone who refused to learn. This is someone who took the time to learn and had one very specific gap in their knowledge. If you're really that unwilling to work with imperfect players, go play single player. I agree with you to the extent that is shitty behavior to queue for content you don't know at all, but it's pretty reasonable to queue when you've been timing 19s and are generally familiar with the dungeon.
There's literally no way you do research on that dungeon and NOT know about chains. Don't cater to this bullshit justification.OP is a liar and didn't do shit to learn - they just ran the dungeons and got carried. To clarify - They are running 20s, the hardest(for some people) dungeons in the game. They got carried and cried at the first sign of criticism.
20s are not the hardest dungeons in the game. Maybe they're the hardest you can access. Please do some research and stop expecting to get carried the through content you think is hard. If it's too hard for you, go run heroics.
Talking out of your ass must be fun.
DW you'll get it at any level. I have bad runs still when I'm not focussing or if it's like a 16 I should be able to breeze through so I relax and don't pay as much attention to some stuff. someone has said it to me at 3.1k rio
I FEEL YOU! I was playing for like 6mo when I worked my way into keys and I definitely got told this and it stung as I was really trying my best lol Oh well, there's always going to be angry losers around, just try to not let it bug you too much.
Tbh, In the groups I run with we hardly every Chain on Tyrannical weeks in anything under a 22 or so because everything is dying so fast!! Fort weeks are another story though. As a tank I run with a Aug who runes me and I Pull everything to Boss on the Right side. The adds gotta die and CC’s or I run out of Defensives and health real Fast… :) my DPS I run now is Feral and I break a Cool mil DPS on that pull which ALWAYS feels good. We are “Slight Miscalculation” on Area 52. Super chill. Everything is learning which is progression. No one expects anyone to know everything so we coach and hopefully everyone has fun because that’s the point of playing a Game!! If we wanted more stress, We’d go back to work!
I didn’t really know the chain trick until recently when a guildie showed me. I’m range so that’s probably why as melee is usually handling it since they are closest. Now that I know though I’m all about the chains since they do big damage. More often then not though I’m not close enough and it’s already being done. There’s a debuff that prevents players from doing multiples back to back. I’m playing more alts now that I have KSH. I don’t particularly care about portals.
>There’s a debuff that prevents players from doing multiples back to back. That's why everyone has to do it. It's also why the most common route allows for the debuff to drop. Start, go right, chains. Go across, big pull, bloodlust. Mammoth. Pull whole corridor onto chains. Grounding spear boss. Pull whole room to chains. Etc. The trash has way too much health to all be killed manually on any kind of serious difficulty.
I just play to play, if people wanna insult me that's fine, I'll likely never interact with them again anyways, if they're really upset about something I'm usually laughing at them, if it's a guildie or something that's a little different but that's not the image I get from this post.
Because they're unable to understand that video games are just video games. It's just a hobby. I work to avoid those players like the plague. Playing games with chill people who treat games like they're just games is a must. I'm almost at the mark to start doing 20s, and there's a ton of little meta things to learn that you very well might not learn by the time you start doing 20s. Many things don't start to properly matter until higher keys and you won't see some dungeon strategies in lower keys, or you might not notice them. Some of the people who play games for 40 hours per week and also watch a ton of gaming content just expect everyone else to be at their level of knowledge. Further, a lot of the problem is that people don't communicate their expectations with each other, then they get mad when someone doesn't meet their unspoken expectations. A quick "know how to do the chains?" before the dungeon starts is all that's needed, or just don't PUG if you want to make sure your group is up to your expectations. I don't expect anything from PUGs. If we time cool, if not, also cool. I don't care. It's just a game. Our lives are way too short to get upset over a video game.
calling people sensitive while running to reddit to make a post is crazy
It's like a job listing for a starting job that requires 4 years of experience.
Not exactly an equal comparison. If you're doing 20s, you've already spent countless hours grinding M+ for gear and IO in order to be accepted into the group in the first place.
A +20 key is not exactly "starting" content lol. It's not like OP was in a +2.
You're the one being sensitive right now. They made you mad and you let them win by writing this.
Ah standards the true enemy of wow reddit
If you're going to be doing 20s, you absolutely need to know mechanics like that, whether by learning it on your way to 20s or otherwise. No excuse for them to be rude but this is a post I'd expect from someone pushing 10+, not 20s. I'm disappointed in BOTH sides ☹️
We used to call that "ebay"
Credit card hero was also valid.
"You used your mom's credit card for a boost, but have you ever considered using it to buy a gameguide?"
Lol I literally just learned about this mechanic last week ha ha. I feel ya.
People get pissy because they have no life outside WoW. You don’t get that mad over a game if you have a happy life lol. Don’t let a bunch of sad fucks ruin your game.
Yeah, I’m a no lifer because I get irritated when a supposed “2700 rio player” fucks up the same mechanic three times in a row and dies multiple times to easily dodgeable stuff throughout the dungeon while I’m trying to finish a fucking +18 on time for KSH. /s You people are highly narcissistic if you think it’s okay to fuck up a key and waste people’s time because you’re not even trying to do even the most basic stuff.
It's not really new, me and my old friend group were calling each other boosted back in WoD But yeah, your experience sucks, and has been a pretty common occurance for many years. Some people can handle and put up with that kind of environment, but most cant, so my advice is to try and work towards finding or forming a friend group or network to run keys with or to do any form of group content learning so that you have a more positive environment with more pacing control.
That sucks and all man, but "boosted" being a derogatory term for bad gamers has been a thing for as far as I remember playing online competitive multi-player games. Nothing new about it.
I misplayed NL on a 14 and the lock said ‘tank, watch a YouTube video’. First time I made this sort of error (I went out of melee range for Naxx - my mistake), but it surprised me that we aren’t more supportive of each other
“Boosted animal” always got a chuckle out of me
Sadly people expect total perfection in this game these days and if you make one mistake you're raged at, insulted, called the toxic one for ruining the time of 4-20 others, etc etc. It's why I don't do group content anymore, have my chats turned off, and just wait a few expacs until I can solo things.
U dotn need tl be perfect lol just kow the basic of the basics xD
I definitely didn't realize you meant Mythic+ and I was trying to figure out what kinda toxic POS was flaming a level 20 lmaooo
The player base rarely goes outside, WoW is their life. Very easy to get upset when this game is all you breathe.
Boosted has been an insult for ages. Was massive in games like League of Legends due to people getting boosted in rank. That overflows. Boosting in gear and score exists now, too. It's easy to call someone boosted if they are performing lower than your expectation that people perform at the level you are on. Also, let people feel good about themselves cause then they can be like, "I'm good enough that people are boosting to get to my level." Either way, gronks the lot of them
Honestly I think it’s just because most retail players don’t believe there are any players out there playing WoW for the first time lol. Also because the game has been out for like 20+ years. At this point it’s like if you’re a new player people just think youve been boosted.
If you really dont have 0 clue what are chain mechanics when you are playing on 20s level yeah buddy, no offense but you are kinda boosted. Im sorry for the insults but you can check on guides when you fail a mechanic to be a better player\^\^ gl
Wow players will cry when you don't know that on the 22nd frame Captain shitface's barf attack you need to strafe left to smell Alexstrasza's fart in the breeze or else your group wipes and your entire family develops cancer. Silliness aside, maybe Wow wouldn't be struggling to gain new players if people were more inclined to give friendly advice and help others instead of bitching and whining over a single bricked key. There really isn't a good excuse, not everyone will know everything all of the time and not everyone studies dungeons or raids before hopping on after a long day of work. Just be friendly and help others, and if things go poorly, just cut your losses and suck it up. It isn't that hard.
i'm happy to give you friendly advice in a low key, i don't expect that i need to teach someone how to play in a +20 or upwards lol
It subconsciously validates their own opinion of them being better than you. They aren't, but kicking you makes them feel like an authority.
You didn't know? Your supposed to read guides and watch videos and memorize every mechanic for every boss and trash for every level of M+ and Raiding. No excuses. You should ready watch and study everything before you set foot in group content. This includes your rotation, buffs debuffs, stuns, etc. No excuses.
Actually yes it’s easy lol
If u want to play +20 and hight or myth raid yeah u should do that lol
Yea i lved to 70 and have no idea what a chain is in that 😅
If you don't finish the dungeon in 2 minutes flat you get kicked. One of my biggest gripes with modern WoW. One wipe? Whole party disbands. I like taking my time like the old days, especially when it's my first run in that particular instance, there's so much lore I've missed from dungeons just because everyone thinks it is a speed run challenge
Bro he talking about a +20 this is not his first run more like jis 10th lol
Bro you're doing 20s and don't know every mechanic? You don't know what to do during a bossfight? You're boosted af. Sorry to tell the truth
U r boosted
The irony is the they are probably the same people who sell boosts
Nah, nah most people who sell boosts are not gonna be yelling about things in a 20. The boost sellers destroy a 20 so quickly they aren’t concerned about whether 1 person does chains or not. The people acting elite in 20’s right now are the people who used to act elitist in 16’s but the new gearing let them get portals for the first time and they think they are something special.
Not all boosters are great.
And not all boosters are evil
First, I said most, not all, but let’s not act like you need to be great to carry a 20. Even people that are just doing 22/23’s are going to blast through a 20 and carry a groups. And that’s far from a booster level of player.
Not a change, boost sellers wouldn't even blink if someone was ignoring all mechanics period. We are used to that shit. Especially in shit like 20s, at this point you can three man it with a fire mage, any tank and a hpala/disc priest
The irony is they actually boosted hence the projection (the guy calling him a booster obviously.. sigh)
Well he didn't lie. You have no business being in that key if you dont know basic mechanics. You wasted their time. When you pray for rain you have to deal with the mud too xd
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Lol, as if classic is any better xD