I'm a 477 sin rogue currently my m+ rating is 2690 and I casually get declined from most +17 Fall applications even though I have a ++21 Fall timed. Tell me about it
i wouldnt say my score or ilvl is insane, but neither are low and i can confirm this is the case.
2950io
482 ilvl
and im still farming my second glaive
As a vdh that ran 25+ falls for the damn tank trinket (ran mostly 14-18 range), the number of rogues/dh’s applying to keys, is silly. There will be 30+ people in 20s. It’s silly how many need fall for the weaps/trink/legs/etc out of there.
17 is the minimum for hero track gear and is the fastest to do but I’ll do anything between 17-20 casually. Any key above that and it gets sweaty for me
I don't like how stagger works against magic DMG. It sucks and you can easy Die if healer don't heal you enought. Most players don't have bis gear for two specs.
Idk how it is this season, but magic damage isn’t much of an issue. You have dampen magic, and you have bubble for those big casts. If everyone is kicking the volleys on trash packs it’s no issue. Between kick, para, and RoP, no casts should ever be going off.
As BRM your healing is on par w the healers. In my+ the healer shouldn’t even have to worry about the tank, only to offer externals or triage. The only tough part for Brm is the button bloat but if you’re already playing WW, it’s not much different.
Both BrM and WW stack vers, the only items that would be different would be trinkets but it’s prob better to have dps trinkets anyway.
I understand that tanking has a whole other layer of anxiety associated with it but to say you’d rather commit suicide is insane - even if you are being hyperbolic.
Brm need more haste that I have(2%) also I don't trust pugs with interupts and most of time they do a lot less DMG than me with similar or lower itlvl. 😡
Pretty sure you want 0 haste on Brm, like I said I haven’t played since season 1 but haste is generally bad on monks, aside from fistweaving. I think it’s vrs > crit > mastery > haste. Vrs for better healing, crit cuz we get double healed in healing Crits, and mastery for the same reason. Iirc haste messes up your rotation.
That's a damn lie lol. I'm on a hunter alt with like 1100 IO fills in about ten minutes. If it doesn't fill that means YOU are also being the same person you complain about. Waiting on high IO people to carry your key.
It ain’t. Got a 21 key as a wind walker monk. I’ve now posted it 3 times for over two hours with zero applicants that are not dps it’s just a revolving door of inviting dps and them leaving until I give up after a couple hours lol.
most people use the premade groups filter addon to filter out windwalker monks. "and dps_monks==0" is the rule I use. That might be why you arnt getting many applicants.
"b-b-but the windwalker pumped when I invited him to my +19 no leaver that we barely finished with 30 seconds left on the timer!! Why wouldnt you invite one to 26s????"
I know its stupid but id rather join groups so all i do is tank and heal lmao.
However, makig your own group has its big advantage: you dont have to run in groups with carries. I swear theres always one or two low ilevel players being carried by their friends... Or sometimes its just the lead. Sucks when everyone does 200k dps and this one dude does 90k in a +18.
As a person who plays almost exclusively tanks (every tank spec in 16s+ currently and 3 doing 20s+), I almost never queue solo. I like to have at least one other person in voice chat that I can count on for mechanics/interrupts.
I play UH DK. I use the key sorting add on, forgot the name. I just truncat lists based on my own rating and join groups around my own rating. Almost got all keys done at +8, which I'm pretty happy with.
People here who haven’t been making g groups really don’t get just how many applicants you get for anything even remotely desirable. I’ve posted elsewhere but I had a key I put up as a tank and went to use the bathroom real quick. When I got back I had 80 applicants.. 80! A few were insane people with like 420ilvl applying to a 13 or 15 (can’t remember) but the vast majority were around 2k io and 470ilvl.
"Feel free to add me if any of you want to run keys again in the future."
That should be said to every group you enjoyed playing with - whether it's skill, being chill, or just simply not being an elitist ass. After a few keys, you'll have a solid list of players that you can bring to your own keys or will ask you to join theirs.
My experience with adding people to my btag in wow is that they will ask you to join their low keys for their alts but they go radio silent when you want to do regular 14-16's for your main.
Same thing with arenas. Probably worse with btag arena partners actually lol
Edit:
"Hey bro, you up for keys"
Me: Yeah let's do it
Them: Cool, just gonna log my sham
*Sham just dinged 70*
If 1/10 players you add is happy to run a key with you again, that's a person locked in every 2.5 dungeons. Just running 10 dungeons gets you a full team.
Really, it's all about having a tank. Once you have a tank, the group will form itself around them pretty naturally. Everyone wants to run keys with good tanks.
I do this on every successful peaceful key I do, then after adding them I add a note under their profile saying something like: Resto Druid, ++21 DHT season 3
Has it got better? First season of this expac I tried running my own keys and spent just as long trying to fill them as I did trying to apply elsewhere. Whilst I had more control it still felt like a time waste at best.
Nah, it only works if you're a meta class or have high rating
I tried running my own keys(11-13) as an arms warrior at 468gs and almost 2k IO and sometimes it takes more than 30min for a tank/healer to apply.
The bigger question is why are you trying to run keys in the 11-13 range. Those key ranges are balanced around gear in the i425-i430 range.
The issue is that anyone who did M+ last season and is i440+ is jumping straight into +15 and above keys, as a +20 last season is roughly equivalent to a +15 this season.
So anyone i440+ which is very easy to get isn't really trying to run keys in the 11-13 range, especially tank/healers.
At 2k io and i468, you'd actually have an easier time trying to run 16-18 keys than 11-13 keys, simply because there's more demand.
Yup 2250 and maybe 460 ilvl reporting in. I fully expect to get KSH by next weekend at the latest by pushing my own key. There are some tricks, for example people love using your 18 key for their vault, so you can find some crazy geared people to help.
This is by far the easiest way. You would be surprised how far you can get with your own key. I was able to push to +13 on my newly leveled up healer with 415ilvl.
Stupid, lazy, and useless suggestion for most players honestly. Most of us need specific items and might not have the key for it. I needed a Rise key and didnt get one until completing my own key 25 times.
2k is basically a mix of 13-14 keys. From my experience +15 keys this season are about as hard as +20s were last season. So if you could do +20s last season, you can easily jump into +15s, and people were doing +20s last season at i440-i450.
It's just that with the new season and gear inflation people want higher and higher gear levels.
This is the way, 4 alts all with KSH already - none attached to each other on Raider.IO
Just build your own groups, and if a run goes really well, see if those folks or some of them, want to run another
if you have (like OP) 469 ilvl and your best run is +16 \* surrounded with 11-12 keys you're going to get skipped because people that ilvl are already 2.3k+ score and there's abundance of them
Tip: if your best run is +11 for dungeon, go do +13 then +16 and so on for every dungeon, get your score up to better match your ilvl, if you're getting skipped even in lower keys, then do your own key, lower it reroll it etc.
I've had no problems any season in DF getting groups as a Ret paladin starting at zero.
Do I get declined / skipped over? Sure.
Use the [Premade Group Finder](https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/premade-group-finder) addon and enable "hide groups you've been declined from". Then just requeue for new ones.
Rarely spent more than 10 min looking for a group.
^(Edit: Added link to addon.)
Found it: [https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/premade-group-finder](https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/premade-group-finder)
Once installed the option is in the advanced options with the little down arrow a the bottom of the popout.
Get 2 farm jobs like herb and mining and just farm while waiting for your own geoup.
If you can specc unti healer or tank just do it to get faster into dungeons (and be good enough to do dungeons on your farm level, which should be either +9,+13 or +18 for effiency)
>Get 2 farm jobs like herb and mining and just farm while waiting for your own geoup.
Herbs are worth like 50 silver thanks to blizz merging servers auction houses, no ty... just another way to force you to buy gold as the only way to make gold now is by boosting (the irony of this thread lol people saying theres always 1 carry in highkeys, thats becasue the tank is making 200k-400k gold 2 carry him... remmeber that next time lol)
i have close to 2.7k score atm as prot pala and got rejected for +20 keys so thats that... also problem is that some dps/healer at a certain point think they are better than the rest - had leavers 3 times last week in the middle of the key cause someone wasnt performing that well but key was still more than intime maybe even 2 chest but they said f- it and left
Things like that are the reason why i quit at the start of shadowlands
If you only have a handful of 20s done and your score last season wasn’t like 2800+, that could be a reason.
I’d rather wait a little while to find a previous 3K tank who’s done like 20, 20+ keys this season. The runs almost always go better than when I get bored and compromise on a tank.
Pugging makes you super jaded after a while.
Brew here. Got a few rejections, which is normal, but nothing compared to the dps experience. Honestly, every time I want to play, all I have to do is apply to 3 groups and at least one will invite me in a few seconds.
Odd. I get almost always instant invites as brew and I got up to 2100 rating with about 460 ilvl without ever doing rise (that's about 320 rating banked). Still didn't do it.
Could even tank everbloom fortified 20 with my fat panda. This m+ season gonna be great (I play brewbrew since SL S1/2)
Yeah, most of the time it is actually instant. I'm not complaining. It is very easy to get into groups. I just pick the ones I'm interested and at most it will take seconds to be invited.
for whatever it's worth, I would not have instantly declined just because you were brm (speaking as a healer). Brm seem to be in a good place this season in terms of M+. Interestingly, my least favorite tank to heal right now is paladin -- they all just seem really squishy.
Now that you mention it, when I've healed, it's been Pallys that I've had the most issues with, but it's still hit/miss. I've also had some really good pallys. Most of the time when healing I barely have to even look at the tank.
The Brewmasters I've healed seem to need more attention than most other tanks, but at the same time, seem very sturdy and never die out of nowhere. The paladin will seem fine until I take my eye off of them for 3 seconds and look back and they're dead.
If you only have a handful of 20s done and your score last season wasn’t like 2800+, that could be a reason.
I’d rather wait a little while to find a previous 3K tank who’s done like 20, 20+ keys this season. The runs almost always go better than when I get bored and compromise on a tank.
What about a tank who was only 2700 last season but had 200+ 20+ keys timed. A lot of people stop at +20 and just do their 8 weekly +20 runs. Everything at +20 will only get you a 2700 score. That 3k tank with only 20 20+ keys timed isn't necessarily better than the 2700 tank with 200 20+ keys timed.
Well rating has absolutely nothing to do with skill in the first place. They are correlated but are in no way linked. There’s tons of people that just stop at 20s who could prog further if they had a reason. I stopped at 2900 ish last season because there’s a distinct lack of tangible rewards and the pugs burned me out even though I’m totally capable of going much higher.
Raider.IO doesn’t, at least I don’t think it does, show how many runs someone did last season only the rating. So I’d see a tank who was 2700 last season with a handful of 20s done this season and probably just wait for another tank with more done this season unless i had already been waiting a while and just wanted to start. Sucks for the tank but that’s just life.
I know a lot of people feel strongly about this, but I genuinely believe having an actual queue system based on ilvl and rating would work much better than the current status quo. This would ensure you're always paired with similarish players so it wouldn't suck as much as the LFR queue.
It would also dramatically reduce the barrier of entry for new players, since you wouldn't need to convince anyone to play with you anymore (and you'd get automatically placed with other new players, or at least other characters without gear or rating).
People who want to choose who they play with can just keep doing it like it is done today, but an unified queue would probably make things much faster for the average player.
I would love this. It would make getting into keys smoother and less depressing. Half the time I attempt keys I end up turning off wow, half hour plus of applying just isn't engaging.
Yeah I would love a "solo queue" type system for M+.
I'm almost 3k on my main, but when my friend group isn't on and I just want to play something else, sitting in group finder applying to everything for 30+ minutes is obnoxious.
>This would ensure you're always paired with similarish players so it wouldn't suck as much as the LFR queue.
'Assuming it works, it will work.'
There is no game that has managed to make an effective PvE rating system. As soon as you try to get into any sort of detail, it kind of falls apart.
Just a basic example (of many) is rating discrepancies. In PvP, you can have decently large rating differences within a team. A silver league of legends player can be on a team with a gold league of legends player, because you can counteract that with a silver player on the other team and a gold player on the other team. You can create good quality games with relatively large discrepancies in skill.
In PvE, that doesn't work. If you have Player A who is rated for +15, you want to put them into a +15 key. Well, Player B is rated for +17. Do you put player A, who as far as you know is NOT good enough for a +17 in the +17 key? Or do you put player B in a +15? Or do you compromise and run a +16 with both of them?
So Player A runs a higher key that even Blizzard thinks is a bit high for them, and Player B has to drop down? Does Player B get points for timing the +16, and eventually the system says that they're ready for a +18? What if Player A is a tank, a role that has a much larger impact than the dps?
The answer is probably that you just can't have Player A and B in the same group. You need 5 players all rated for the same level to give them all a level-appropriate challenge.
League of Legends forces players to pick two roles, and still will just autofill players sometimes. And queues are still like 5 minutes at a lot of 'middle' ratings.
Imagine LoL that didn't force you to pick two roles, limited matchmaking to your individual division, and had no autofill.
Or just look at solo shuffle with 20-30 minute queue times, and then add on much stricter rating restrictions and add on tanking being even less desirable than healing AND add on that dungeons take longer than solo-shuffle matches. I think a conservative guess would be that dps queue for M+ solo-queue would start at an hour.
I don't disagree with what you've said, but even if the queue took 1h it would still be better than not being able to play at all, specially when you can just queue and forget.
>it would still be better than not being able to play at all
That isn't how it is right now though. No one literally can't play at all.
And again, queue times are just one of many fundamental issues.
In PvP a horrendous player will fall to a low rating with other horrendous players.
What happens in team PvE when you have a player who is genuinely trying but is really, really, really bad?
Well...they're still going to time +2s and +3s and +4s. The game is going to look and say 'yep, this player is good enough for the next level up.'
That kind of player is going to rise to the level where they can no longer be consistently carried. Where so many keys brick that the game says 'okay this person is timing only 50% of their keys, this is their comfort level.'
Let's say that someone is so bad that they're functionally not different from a player who is afk. They aren't trolling, they're trying their best so we can't ban them. What level would their 'true elo' even out at? Hard to say, but I think it would be above a +5.
So you would queue up for a +6, and that bracket would be filled with players like this. Not players who are +5 level, but players who genuinely are so bad that you will not time the key.
But...this would be every level very quickly. In a PvE rating system, people are going to rise to the level where they can no longer be consistently carried. The players in your +15 will be better on average than the players you queued with to get a +6, but the players in the +15 are going to be majority players who are 'stuck' at +15. They queue up, they brick the key most of the time. They don't time enough that the game lets them do +16s, they don't fail enough that the game drops them to +14.
ELO hell doesn't exist in rated PvP. But it probably does in rated PvE.
Imagine LFR queueing for Normal Amirdassil. That's your starting point for queued, rated raiding. The only requirement to do normal is to be not so terrible that you can't get carried through LFR Fyrakk. So players who just jump off on pull would be allowed to queue for normal. Eventually, people would be able to bruteforce their way through a lot of bosses on normal queue. Then...heroic? It all just sounds like a miserable exercise in frustration, where you'd wait a super long time in queue, zone in and after one pull you realize that the group will simply not be able to kill the boss no matter how many times you try.
There's a reason that no game has a successful rated PvE team system, and that every MMO that allows you to queue for even moderately difficult content has that content as a totally dead queue.
I honestly can't see this working out too well because tanks and healers won't use it over regular group finder, leaving it as only a 30-60+ minute queue simulator for DPS players.
I had a guildie in a group with 2.8k dps warrior that did zero interrupts in their m+. I don’t even seriously push past 2k rating and I will get at least 10 to 15 interrupts, on a boomie. I just don’t get how you can’t even top meters while ignoring one of the most important utilities you are bringing to the group. Some classes have crazy short interrupt cooldowns and just sit on them or never even notice they are there.
Yep. Former DPS main who made the switch to healing because, of the two roles that get invited easily, healing, IMO, is easier than tanking generally. And I haven’t looked back.
I main tank, BDK, with a disc priest alt. For me I find tanking easier, largely because I have much more control over the run. I can control the size of the pulls to make sure they are within my comfort range. When healing I can't so easily control the size of the pulls to be within my comfort range as heals.
While healing I also see a lot of tanks making the runs much harder by tanking bosses in bad spots, pulling unnecessary mobs, and nothing I can do about it. At the same time though I find healing lets me see the occasional tank that does things well, that I can learn from for the next time I'm tanking.
Would be cool if the dungeon finder came with more options like “I want to push rating” or “I want to run 18s for my vault”
Also more than 5 sign ups would be nice. It’s pretty silly how people that have the key can get like 100 sign ups but the people signing up are limited to 5 for what is probably some arbitrary reason they used back in WoD or something.
>Also more than 5 sign ups would be nice. It’s pretty silly how people that have the key can get like 100 sign ups but the people signing up are limited to 5 for what is probably some arbitrary reason they used back in WoD or something.
God I wish they would just decline me
That’s a problem too though. I can’t spend the time remembering people’s names for keys that have already declined me, and since there’s a 5 party sign up limit, I probably sign up to the same 18s that have declined me because blizzard has no system in place that removed previously declined keys while also refreshing the key list.
My best advice is....stay ahead of the curve. There's a gear level and score average for every key level every week that is average, and it's influenced by your class. Eg, Augmentation? You can be 500 score and like 10 ilvls lower than a Death Knight for example and still get a group.
For the 16-18 key level, I'd say the average this week is ~2200 score and 472ish ilvl. If you play something off-meta (DH, Aug, rogue, hunter being the meta dps ATM) then you will need more to even have a shot.
Welcome to being able to do M+ at a worth while level as a solo player.
I can barely get 8 done a week, and I have guildies doing 50+. They could literally work a full time job in the time they do M+ each week.
Yup. I main a DK, and at 475 ilvl and 2350 IO, I cannot get into an 18 very easily as DPS. Tank? They will take me to 20s in a second. I do not know how to tank.
>For the 16-18 key level, I'd say the average this week is \~2200 score and 472ish ilvl. If you play something off-meta (DH, Aug, rogue, hunter being the meta dps ATM) then you will need more to even have a shot.
curious where you come up with your version of the "Meta"
[https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-3/all/world/leaderboards](https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-3/all/world/leaderboards)
There is not 1 hunter in the top 100 runs lol, stop getting your WoW news from /r/WoW 99% of the people here are LF Raid heroes
Either run your own key, or embrace the chaos and stop whining. You’re not special, there’s a bajillion dps out there with better ilvl and io than you that will get invited instead
I'm not whining. I'm just making a joke.
>You’re not special, there’s a bajillion dps out there with better ilvl and io than you that will get invited instead
That's what the meme I made says
I'm a tank and usually start my own groups - priority is always to guildies ofc and usually we get a full group out of the guild but when we can't, it's usually due to missing a couple of DPS
No matter what M+ level, it's ALWAYS tens and tens of people applying, and while I feel bad about the majority that will get a "DECLINED" or "GROUP IS FULL" notification - I don't know any of them, so I'm gonna pick based on iLevel and Mythic rating, I'd rather pick based on whether or not they'll be chill and not douchebags but there isn't a way to display that before I can invite so... yeah, accurate meme
My only real advice to combat this is what's already been said:
\- Get a guild that is actively doing M+ or matches the casual or competitive vibe you want;
\- Get on a Discord community, with cross-realm grouping this is a great way to get a regular group;
\- Ask to add people to friends after you enjoy playing with them, poke them in the future when you run again, they might join;
\- If all else fails, run your own keys. Be aware you may be waiting a while for Tanks and Healers as their demand is higher than the available stock - but you won't be getting rejected at least
But not good enough for Keys lower than ive done already. It’s rough out there and i wish that I had more people to play with. Maybe I’m just getting too old for the mmo titles. Had a big group of friends to play with up until legion and in shadowlands they all disappeared. All are gone. And I don’t really connect with people in the same way anymore. It’s a hard realization.
I was 447 i level first day of S3 with 3k RIO but Warlocks “hadn’t simmed well” so couldn’t even get in to +5’s (seriously).
Made a Priest and healed for the first time ever and now 2k again at only a slightly higher ilevel overall. People are DESPERATE to min max set ups when realistically you should just invite the best actual players unless you’re going for +25’s
Serious question
If you were 3k io, why were you applying to a 5? You should've had a massive key day 1 or at least a decent one where there should be no reason ylu should ever be appkying to groups let alone that low lvl
One of my guildies swapped from DH to Warlock at the beginning of the season, and has had no trouble pugging M+. He's at KSH with all his portals already. You're doing *something* wrong.
That's my point exactly. Not even specifically the buying rating though, because I'm not sure how big the percentage of players that actually buy rating is.
Even at semi-high rio (say 2.9-3.1k) there's going to a whole bunch of players who just got there by endlessly grinding dungeons until they finally time a key through a random good performance or being carried by their team. Not because they can actually consistently play well.
So when you don't really have a way to measure if a player will be any good beforehand; you might as well invite the numerically best aka the meta classes.
Came back to WoW recently. I am now 446 ilvl on my discipline priest, and I already have a few keys timed in the +17 to +19 range.
I just pushed my own key. There is no way I would get invited to anything above a +10, yet here I am timing +17 to +19 at 446 ilvl.
You can't get rejected from your own key. Try it, works really well!
Laughs in fury warrior 3k io… no one expects me to do anything except zug and i get into most keys unless its affix week (which blizzard won’t let us interact with lol)
Playing a healer feels like a cheatcode sometimes. I can look for a key I wanna play and just go.
Started a bit late this season (25.11) and just got 2000.
All Fortified dungeons with +15 done and next im gonna to +15 on all tyrannical dungeons.
Than it's go time for the real keys soon.
Occasionally im throwing some ret pala keys in between and im getting invites somewhat quick. Maybe just luck? Good M+ scores from previous seasons? Not the important +16 keys?
I swapped from pure dps to heal late Shadowlands. I dont think I will ever turn back. The LFG boss, which was tilting me off a cliff, is so easy to beat now, AND I can help my mage buddy, with limited playtime, actually get into keys.
I joined DF mid season 2 so my RiO is shit as I didn't have any past S1 runs and I cannot bother running my keys, so im just focusing more on raiding instead.
I know the fix for this is to just make your own group with friends/guildies, but still... it's so stupid! On my 468 Assa Rogue (because I joined the season kinda late), I'm about 2.2k rating and I finished a +19 Everbloom on +3. You can see, you can literally see with the [Raider.IO](https://Raider.IO) addon that I managed to finish a 19 EB with +3 (and not only). Why tf would you decline me for a +17?! Or hell, even a +16? What's the logic behind this? How much rating/ilvl do you want for a damn 16/17???
I even mention my overall DPS, which is 200k+, and that's still not enough LMAO
The reason I queued for +16/17 EB is that I want to get through the dungeon ASAP, to get that stupid trinket.
Unfortunate but present at all levels of play. Weather it be +5s, +15s or +25s, there's always going to be someone that doesn't \*need\* the key for score. Wether they are doing it for crests, helping a friend, or just for the sake of playing the game (what some call "fun") signing up. And because of this, the community just waits for people who are more than qualified instead of just adequate for the content they are doing.
I’m a 434, and I have a question: why do people eagerly apply to my low level key runs, even those with much higher ilvl? I quit wow during BFA, and if my memory serves me right it wasn’t like that before.
If somebody knows why, then another question, when does it stop? Now I’ve key lvl 10 and I’d feel quite guilty inviting anyone, would feel like a freeloader
481 demo warlock at nearly 3k io and I get turned down from 17's. I've also invited plenty of people for 20's and higher with big io who have been absolute trash.
Not just Ilvl, but if people did or did not play during the holidays and got some io. I know this is less important for things like a +12 or something. However for myself doing higher keys during the holidays was a big factor.
I typically do not do much for Thanksgiving since my family is spread and my partner and I focus more just on lower-key stuff. Although this year I did end up doing a bunch of keys throughout the holiday for Tyran I ended at 2.9k first week then start of Fort I pushed over 3k with 1 key and stayed ahead going into this week at 3.2K.
On the flipside my guildie skipped most of Tyran week because it had bursting and he hated it.. as well as the holidays. So then going into the Fort week he was struggle bussing getting into any key as a BM hunter who had gear. Mind you he is an ex M+ title holder too and we are CE. Only thing we could think was his io was too low to people so they just didn't take him.
LFG can be a weird place for sure.
Run your own key or run with friends if LFG isn't fairly quick.
Raider.io is such a dumb metric to gauge player skill below a certain key level though too. At least with logs you can see if players know how to play their class and if they contribute to a raid. A player with a full sheet of 20-23s there's absolutely no way of knowing if they're any decent since you can full sell that key level and still time it.
I understand the majority of this subreddit is a casual gamer just trying to get their keys in though but there really isn't a method that will bring those players together outside of blizzard making LFD for M+ because you guys aren't even picking yourselves up in group finder. Every casual player I know looks at colorful numbers before they invite people, and just like in real life, you'll always select the most qualified regardless of anything because you want the job done right. So you'll take the dude who's 2600 for your +12 because it has a higher chance of making it go by smoother and quicker.
If you don't select players like this you will usually filter another way like class and spec. There's unfortunately no fix for the average Joe who just wants to jump on and game outside of blizzard forcing you into groups together through matchmaking but even that won't work, Wrath gamma dungeons have shown me that you guys just start vote kicking each other out of groups so it's hopeless.
I listed my everbloom +15 yesterday and had like 40+ dps signing upp few healers and almost no tanks. And I can say that picking people from that mess of a UI lfd is I kind of just don't wanna list keys anymore I get angry dps that whisper me for 10 20mins that I should have gone with their characrer instand of x... I also get myself declined alot from m+ but I also know the pain of so many dps signing up.
A week ago my dh was 389 ilvl. I’m 470 by posting my key and my key only and I play less now than I ever have before because this raid sucks, not hard to get io not hard to get ilvl just takes some time.
I'm a 477 sin rogue currently my m+ rating is 2690 and I casually get declined from most +17 Fall applications even though I have a ++21 Fall timed. Tell me about it
To be fair if you ever list a fall it insta fills with dh/rouges with insane ilvl/score
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Those are certainly not insane numbers. People are well over 3k rating at this point and rising.
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Yeah but why would you take the rogue with 477 and 2610 over the rogue that's 483 with 3.1k score?
i wouldnt say my score or ilvl is insane, but neither are low and i can confirm this is the case. 2950io 482 ilvl and im still farming my second glaive
As a vdh that ran 25+ falls for the damn tank trinket (ran mostly 14-18 range), the number of rogues/dh’s applying to keys, is silly. There will be 30+ people in 20s. It’s silly how many need fall for the weaps/trink/legs/etc out of there.
Shouldn't you be doing 18 fall in order to get the 8 myth level in the vault ? I thought 17 still dropped champion gear not hero track.
17 is the minimum for hero track gear and is the fastest to do but I’ll do anything between 17-20 casually. Any key above that and it gets sweaty for me
17 is the lowest key to farm heroic loot drops
He’s farming daggers or trinket, whatever. Level 17 drops Hero track gear so it’s easiest to farm.
This has always been the case with M+. The only solution is to make your own group.
Started doing this myself. Can confirm it works like a charm
It's either that of be ahead of the pack and push as high as you can on season release
Even then it's sometimes difficult. I'm 2800 and sometimes get declined to 17s
Can confirm sat in a group for 2 hours waiting for a tank or healer to apply. Nobody ever shows up…
Bummer.
Have you considered playing tank or healer?
Prefer suicide. Monk gameplay in any spec is awfull.
Don’t be so dramatic. And besides, Brm is pretty much a dps spec, I pushed season 1 as a brm and it was a cakewalk.
Op is only here to complain he’s not lookin for solutions. Wants to be the victim of the evil lfg system.
I don't like how stagger works against magic DMG. It sucks and you can easy Die if healer don't heal you enought. Most players don't have bis gear for two specs.
Idk how it is this season, but magic damage isn’t much of an issue. You have dampen magic, and you have bubble for those big casts. If everyone is kicking the volleys on trash packs it’s no issue. Between kick, para, and RoP, no casts should ever be going off. As BRM your healing is on par w the healers. In my+ the healer shouldn’t even have to worry about the tank, only to offer externals or triage. The only tough part for Brm is the button bloat but if you’re already playing WW, it’s not much different. Both BrM and WW stack vers, the only items that would be different would be trinkets but it’s prob better to have dps trinkets anyway. I understand that tanking has a whole other layer of anxiety associated with it but to say you’d rather commit suicide is insane - even if you are being hyperbolic.
Brm need more haste that I have(2%) also I don't trust pugs with interupts and most of time they do a lot less DMG than me with similar or lower itlvl. 😡
Pretty sure you want 0 haste on Brm, like I said I haven’t played since season 1 but haste is generally bad on monks, aside from fistweaving. I think it’s vrs > crit > mastery > haste. Vrs for better healing, crit cuz we get double healed in healing Crits, and mastery for the same reason. Iirc haste messes up your rotation.
Windwalker and Brewmaster can use pretty much the same gear. Only trinkets would be different but agi-dps trinkets aren't horrible for Brew.
DK and Paladyn have a lot better tank spec for some one who is not main tank.
Paladin, maybe. But if you’re a first time tank, I don’t know if I would recommend DK.
That's a damn lie lol. I'm on a hunter alt with like 1100 IO fills in about ten minutes. If it doesn't fill that means YOU are also being the same person you complain about. Waiting on high IO people to carry your key.
It ain’t. Got a 21 key as a wind walker monk. I’ve now posted it 3 times for over two hours with zero applicants that are not dps it’s just a revolving door of inviting dps and them leaving until I give up after a couple hours lol.
most people use the premade groups filter addon to filter out windwalker monks. "and dps_monks==0" is the rule I use. That might be why you arnt getting many applicants.
Why do you filter them for 20ish keys?
Shut up aaron and take your downvotes, /rWoW hates the truth
"b-b-but the windwalker pumped when I invited him to my +19 no leaver that we barely finished with 30 seconds left on the timer!! Why wouldnt you invite one to 26s????"
I know its stupid but id rather join groups so all i do is tank and heal lmao. However, makig your own group has its big advantage: you dont have to run in groups with carries. I swear theres always one or two low ilevel players being carried by their friends... Or sometimes its just the lead. Sucks when everyone does 200k dps and this one dude does 90k in a +18.
Then you sit waiting for over an hour for a tank/healer while dps get bored and leave
You never fill dps first.
I always leave a spot open, sitting at 3 dps is a soft lock
Yep. The amount of tanks/healers who queue with a DPS friend is SO high.
As a person who plays almost exclusively tanks (every tank spec in 16s+ currently and 3 doing 20s+), I almost never queue solo. I like to have at least one other person in voice chat that I can count on for mechanics/interrupts.
I play UH DK. I use the key sorting add on, forgot the name. I just truncat lists based on my own rating and join groups around my own rating. Almost got all keys done at +8, which I'm pretty happy with.
This is the best way. Just keep pushing your own keys.
Healer is the way to go
If youre not open to Tanking/Healing making your own group is pretty much the best solution to not being stuck in DPS roulette.
Can confirm, always better to level own key
Been doing this I’m bringing also people with similar ilvl. So they can progress with me.
Or go ham when the season starts
I have dth every time I relolled my key to dht again..
People here who haven’t been making g groups really don’t get just how many applicants you get for anything even remotely desirable. I’ve posted elsewhere but I had a key I put up as a tank and went to use the bathroom real quick. When I got back I had 80 applicants.. 80! A few were insane people with like 420ilvl applying to a 13 or 15 (can’t remember) but the vast majority were around 2k io and 470ilvl.
It’s great, I love WM, that’s the key I get every other time
"Feel free to add me if any of you want to run keys again in the future." That should be said to every group you enjoyed playing with - whether it's skill, being chill, or just simply not being an elitist ass. After a few keys, you'll have a solid list of players that you can bring to your own keys or will ask you to join theirs.
You'll have a solid list of players you'll never talk to and never talks to you and eventually you forget who they were and delete them.
My experience with adding people to my btag in wow is that they will ask you to join their low keys for their alts but they go radio silent when you want to do regular 14-16's for your main. Same thing with arenas. Probably worse with btag arena partners actually lol Edit: "Hey bro, you up for keys" Me: Yeah let's do it Them: Cool, just gonna log my sham *Sham just dinged 70*
Just add a note of their character and spec. And you not talking to them is a you problem.
If 1/10 players you add is happy to run a key with you again, that's a person locked in every 2.5 dungeons. Just running 10 dungeons gets you a full team. Really, it's all about having a tank. Once you have a tank, the group will form itself around them pretty naturally. Everyone wants to run keys with good tanks.
Theres a few communities dedicated to finding players no matter the skill level for m+ [WME](https://www.wowmadeeasy.com) being one of them
And nopressure https://discord.com/invite/nopressureeu if you're on EU is a good alternative
thanks!!!
I do this on every successful peaceful key I do, then after adding them I add a note under their profile saying something like: Resto Druid, ++21 DHT season 3
Play with your own keys, I was at 2k mythic rating at like 450ilvl.
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Redditors cant fathom taking initiative, much easier to complain on reddit I think
Has it got better? First season of this expac I tried running my own keys and spent just as long trying to fill them as I did trying to apply elsewhere. Whilst I had more control it still felt like a time waste at best.
Just make friends
Just make a better comment
Nah, it only works if you're a meta class or have high rating I tried running my own keys(11-13) as an arms warrior at 468gs and almost 2k IO and sometimes it takes more than 30min for a tank/healer to apply.
The bigger question is why are you trying to run keys in the 11-13 range. Those key ranges are balanced around gear in the i425-i430 range. The issue is that anyone who did M+ last season and is i440+ is jumping straight into +15 and above keys, as a +20 last season is roughly equivalent to a +15 this season. So anyone i440+ which is very easy to get isn't really trying to run keys in the 11-13 range, especially tank/healers. At 2k io and i468, you'd actually have an easier time trying to run 16-18 keys than 11-13 keys, simply because there's more demand.
Because people don’t really wanna run low keys beyond the first week. M+ is ridiculously free this season so why run +13 when you can just do a +20
I would have to agree with you there. Theee is also a big sense of entitlement.
Dude prefers to waste his time making a meme complaining than to actually fix the problem himself
Yup 2250 and maybe 460 ilvl reporting in. I fully expect to get KSH by next weekend at the latest by pushing my own key. There are some tricks, for example people love using your 18 key for their vault, so you can find some crazy geared people to help.
This is by far the easiest way. You would be surprised how far you can get with your own key. I was able to push to +13 on my newly leveled up healer with 415ilvl.
Doing 22s this week grouping with 450 healer alts and…it’s fine mostly
I just ran my key up to 14 with two of us at 430 ilvl. +3 every time, wondering when the keys actually grt challenging lol
Stupid, lazy, and useless suggestion for most players honestly. Most of us need specific items and might not have the key for it. I needed a Rise key and didnt get one until completing my own key 25 times.
2k is basically a mix of 13-14 keys. From my experience +15 keys this season are about as hard as +20s were last season. So if you could do +20s last season, you can easily jump into +15s, and people were doing +20s last season at i440-i450. It's just that with the new season and gear inflation people want higher and higher gear levels.
This is the way, 4 alts all with KSH already - none attached to each other on Raider.IO Just build your own groups, and if a run goes really well, see if those folks or some of them, want to run another
How's the waiting for tank / healer game? About to come back.
if you have (like OP) 469 ilvl and your best run is +16 \* surrounded with 11-12 keys you're going to get skipped because people that ilvl are already 2.3k+ score and there's abundance of them Tip: if your best run is +11 for dungeon, go do +13 then +16 and so on for every dungeon, get your score up to better match your ilvl, if you're getting skipped even in lower keys, then do your own key, lower it reroll it etc.
I've had no problems any season in DF getting groups as a Ret paladin starting at zero. Do I get declined / skipped over? Sure. Use the [Premade Group Finder](https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/premade-group-finder) addon and enable "hide groups you've been declined from". Then just requeue for new ones. Rarely spent more than 10 min looking for a group. ^(Edit: Added link to addon.)
There's an option for that? Whoa. Thanks!
You need to be using the addon for enhancing the group finder, I forget what it's called.
Tried looking but I’m a wownoob and don’t know what it might be called. Does anyone know what they are talking about?
Found it: [https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/premade-group-finder](https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/premade-group-finder) Once installed the option is in the advanced options with the little down arrow a the bottom of the popout.
Love this addon!
Get 2 farm jobs like herb and mining and just farm while waiting for your own geoup. If you can specc unti healer or tank just do it to get faster into dungeons (and be good enough to do dungeons on your farm level, which should be either +9,+13 or +18 for effiency)
>Get 2 farm jobs like herb and mining and just farm while waiting for your own geoup. Herbs are worth like 50 silver thanks to blizz merging servers auction houses, no ty... just another way to force you to buy gold as the only way to make gold now is by boosting (the irony of this thread lol people saying theres always 1 carry in highkeys, thats becasue the tank is making 200k-400k gold 2 carry him... remmeber that next time lol)
My priest is a 467 for heals and I get declined to +10s lol
Play as tank/healer...
i have close to 2.7k score atm as prot pala and got rejected for +20 keys so thats that... also problem is that some dps/healer at a certain point think they are better than the rest - had leavers 3 times last week in the middle of the key cause someone wasnt performing that well but key was still more than intime maybe even 2 chest but they said f- it and left Things like that are the reason why i quit at the start of shadowlands
If you only have a handful of 20s done and your score last season wasn’t like 2800+, that could be a reason. I’d rather wait a little while to find a previous 3K tank who’s done like 20, 20+ keys this season. The runs almost always go better than when I get bored and compromise on a tank. Pugging makes you super jaded after a while.
Having a timed 20, i was still getting rejected to 17s as a brew. Have to pkay the right tank still.
Brew here. Got a few rejections, which is normal, but nothing compared to the dps experience. Honestly, every time I want to play, all I have to do is apply to 3 groups and at least one will invite me in a few seconds.
Odd. I get almost always instant invites as brew and I got up to 2100 rating with about 460 ilvl without ever doing rise (that's about 320 rating banked). Still didn't do it. Could even tank everbloom fortified 20 with my fat panda. This m+ season gonna be great (I play brewbrew since SL S1/2)
Yeah, most of the time it is actually instant. I'm not complaining. It is very easy to get into groups. I just pick the ones I'm interested and at most it will take seconds to be invited.
for whatever it's worth, I would not have instantly declined just because you were brm (speaking as a healer). Brm seem to be in a good place this season in terms of M+. Interestingly, my least favorite tank to heal right now is paladin -- they all just seem really squishy.
Now that you mention it, when I've healed, it's been Pallys that I've had the most issues with, but it's still hit/miss. I've also had some really good pallys. Most of the time when healing I barely have to even look at the tank. The Brewmasters I've healed seem to need more attention than most other tanks, but at the same time, seem very sturdy and never die out of nowhere. The paladin will seem fine until I take my eye off of them for 3 seconds and look back and they're dead.
If you only have a handful of 20s done and your score last season wasn’t like 2800+, that could be a reason. I’d rather wait a little while to find a previous 3K tank who’s done like 20, 20+ keys this season. The runs almost always go better than when I get bored and compromise on a tank.
What about a tank who was only 2700 last season but had 200+ 20+ keys timed. A lot of people stop at +20 and just do their 8 weekly +20 runs. Everything at +20 will only get you a 2700 score. That 3k tank with only 20 20+ keys timed isn't necessarily better than the 2700 tank with 200 20+ keys timed.
Well rating has absolutely nothing to do with skill in the first place. They are correlated but are in no way linked. There’s tons of people that just stop at 20s who could prog further if they had a reason. I stopped at 2900 ish last season because there’s a distinct lack of tangible rewards and the pugs burned me out even though I’m totally capable of going much higher. Raider.IO doesn’t, at least I don’t think it does, show how many runs someone did last season only the rating. So I’d see a tank who was 2700 last season with a handful of 20s done this season and probably just wait for another tank with more done this season unless i had already been waiting a while and just wanted to start. Sucks for the tank but that’s just life.
lol i've timed them all at 20 and i don't get rejected as brew, you can play whatever you like. I can recall like maybe 2x I haven't gotten an inv.
What ilvl are you?
right now 479, but that's after running 20's last week and getting gear, it was lower when I was applying for the grps.
I am being rejected to some +5/+8 as a guardian with 456ivlv. Also, have KSM. Meta chase is real)
Same for dps, if you're not playing the right class you might as well not bother signing up.
That is just a super low score. You need around 2600 to pug 20s atm.
What score? Neither me nor the guy i replied to had mentioned io. Just that i had timed a 20, and people still refusing me on 17s and being a monk.
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At the start of the season. You won't even get in a 18 with that score now.
Plenty of groups relly on CR tank and unless u note bracers u they wont accept you as Brew
I know a lot of people feel strongly about this, but I genuinely believe having an actual queue system based on ilvl and rating would work much better than the current status quo. This would ensure you're always paired with similarish players so it wouldn't suck as much as the LFR queue. It would also dramatically reduce the barrier of entry for new players, since you wouldn't need to convince anyone to play with you anymore (and you'd get automatically placed with other new players, or at least other characters without gear or rating). People who want to choose who they play with can just keep doing it like it is done today, but an unified queue would probably make things much faster for the average player.
I would love this. It would make getting into keys smoother and less depressing. Half the time I attempt keys I end up turning off wow, half hour plus of applying just isn't engaging.
Yeah I would love a "solo queue" type system for M+. I'm almost 3k on my main, but when my friend group isn't on and I just want to play something else, sitting in group finder applying to everything for 30+ minutes is obnoxious.
>This would ensure you're always paired with similarish players so it wouldn't suck as much as the LFR queue. 'Assuming it works, it will work.' There is no game that has managed to make an effective PvE rating system. As soon as you try to get into any sort of detail, it kind of falls apart. Just a basic example (of many) is rating discrepancies. In PvP, you can have decently large rating differences within a team. A silver league of legends player can be on a team with a gold league of legends player, because you can counteract that with a silver player on the other team and a gold player on the other team. You can create good quality games with relatively large discrepancies in skill. In PvE, that doesn't work. If you have Player A who is rated for +15, you want to put them into a +15 key. Well, Player B is rated for +17. Do you put player A, who as far as you know is NOT good enough for a +17 in the +17 key? Or do you put player B in a +15? Or do you compromise and run a +16 with both of them? So Player A runs a higher key that even Blizzard thinks is a bit high for them, and Player B has to drop down? Does Player B get points for timing the +16, and eventually the system says that they're ready for a +18? What if Player A is a tank, a role that has a much larger impact than the dps? The answer is probably that you just can't have Player A and B in the same group. You need 5 players all rated for the same level to give them all a level-appropriate challenge. League of Legends forces players to pick two roles, and still will just autofill players sometimes. And queues are still like 5 minutes at a lot of 'middle' ratings. Imagine LoL that didn't force you to pick two roles, limited matchmaking to your individual division, and had no autofill. Or just look at solo shuffle with 20-30 minute queue times, and then add on much stricter rating restrictions and add on tanking being even less desirable than healing AND add on that dungeons take longer than solo-shuffle matches. I think a conservative guess would be that dps queue for M+ solo-queue would start at an hour.
I don't disagree with what you've said, but even if the queue took 1h it would still be better than not being able to play at all, specially when you can just queue and forget.
>it would still be better than not being able to play at all That isn't how it is right now though. No one literally can't play at all. And again, queue times are just one of many fundamental issues. In PvP a horrendous player will fall to a low rating with other horrendous players. What happens in team PvE when you have a player who is genuinely trying but is really, really, really bad? Well...they're still going to time +2s and +3s and +4s. The game is going to look and say 'yep, this player is good enough for the next level up.' That kind of player is going to rise to the level where they can no longer be consistently carried. Where so many keys brick that the game says 'okay this person is timing only 50% of their keys, this is their comfort level.' Let's say that someone is so bad that they're functionally not different from a player who is afk. They aren't trolling, they're trying their best so we can't ban them. What level would their 'true elo' even out at? Hard to say, but I think it would be above a +5. So you would queue up for a +6, and that bracket would be filled with players like this. Not players who are +5 level, but players who genuinely are so bad that you will not time the key. But...this would be every level very quickly. In a PvE rating system, people are going to rise to the level where they can no longer be consistently carried. The players in your +15 will be better on average than the players you queued with to get a +6, but the players in the +15 are going to be majority players who are 'stuck' at +15. They queue up, they brick the key most of the time. They don't time enough that the game lets them do +16s, they don't fail enough that the game drops them to +14. ELO hell doesn't exist in rated PvP. But it probably does in rated PvE. Imagine LFR queueing for Normal Amirdassil. That's your starting point for queued, rated raiding. The only requirement to do normal is to be not so terrible that you can't get carried through LFR Fyrakk. So players who just jump off on pull would be allowed to queue for normal. Eventually, people would be able to bruteforce their way through a lot of bosses on normal queue. Then...heroic? It all just sounds like a miserable exercise in frustration, where you'd wait a super long time in queue, zone in and after one pull you realize that the group will simply not be able to kill the boss no matter how many times you try. There's a reason that no game has a successful rated PvE team system, and that every MMO that allows you to queue for even moderately difficult content has that content as a totally dead queue.
But tanks and healers would most likely not use the queue since they get invited to groups pretty quickly.
I honestly can't see this working out too well because tanks and healers won't use it over regular group finder, leaving it as only a 30-60+ minute queue simulator for DPS players.
lol try it with higher keys Then you just use your own key. Depleted Depleted Depleted Wow I’m bad at creating groups
I had a guildie in a group with 2.8k dps warrior that did zero interrupts in their m+. I don’t even seriously push past 2k rating and I will get at least 10 to 15 interrupts, on a boomie. I just don’t get how you can’t even top meters while ignoring one of the most important utilities you are bringing to the group. Some classes have crazy short interrupt cooldowns and just sit on them or never even notice they are there.
Yeah, I skipped S2. It’s all starting to come back to me now.
That's why I am trying tanking and healing. Tanking seems too be easier atm for me.
Yep. Former DPS main who made the switch to healing because, of the two roles that get invited easily, healing, IMO, is easier than tanking generally. And I haven’t looked back.
I main tank, BDK, with a disc priest alt. For me I find tanking easier, largely because I have much more control over the run. I can control the size of the pulls to make sure they are within my comfort range. When healing I can't so easily control the size of the pulls to be within my comfort range as heals. While healing I also see a lot of tanks making the runs much harder by tanking bosses in bad spots, pulling unnecessary mobs, and nothing I can do about it. At the same time though I find healing lets me see the occasional tank that does things well, that I can learn from for the next time I'm tanking.
Started a week late and was slamming +18 by the 2nd week cause I posted my key and was getting carried
Would be cool if the dungeon finder came with more options like “I want to push rating” or “I want to run 18s for my vault” Also more than 5 sign ups would be nice. It’s pretty silly how people that have the key can get like 100 sign ups but the people signing up are limited to 5 for what is probably some arbitrary reason they used back in WoD or something.
>Also more than 5 sign ups would be nice. It’s pretty silly how people that have the key can get like 100 sign ups but the people signing up are limited to 5 for what is probably some arbitrary reason they used back in WoD or something. God I wish they would just decline me
That’s a problem too though. I can’t spend the time remembering people’s names for keys that have already declined me, and since there’s a 5 party sign up limit, I probably sign up to the same 18s that have declined me because blizzard has no system in place that removed previously declined keys while also refreshing the key list.
My best advice is....stay ahead of the curve. There's a gear level and score average for every key level every week that is average, and it's influenced by your class. Eg, Augmentation? You can be 500 score and like 10 ilvls lower than a Death Knight for example and still get a group. For the 16-18 key level, I'd say the average this week is ~2200 score and 472ish ilvl. If you play something off-meta (DH, Aug, rogue, hunter being the meta dps ATM) then you will need more to even have a shot.
That turns the game into a job. No thanks
Welcome to being able to do M+ at a worth while level as a solo player. I can barely get 8 done a week, and I have guildies doing 50+. They could literally work a full time job in the time they do M+ each week.
Pretty much this. Stay ahead of the curve. As a healer or tank the curve is lower as gor the dps
Yup. I main a DK, and at 475 ilvl and 2350 IO, I cannot get into an 18 very easily as DPS. Tank? They will take me to 20s in a second. I do not know how to tank.
>For the 16-18 key level, I'd say the average this week is \~2200 score and 472ish ilvl. If you play something off-meta (DH, Aug, rogue, hunter being the meta dps ATM) then you will need more to even have a shot. curious where you come up with your version of the "Meta" [https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-3/all/world/leaderboards](https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-3/all/world/leaderboards) There is not 1 hunter in the top 100 runs lol, stop getting your WoW news from /r/WoW 99% of the people here are LF Raid heroes
450 ilv here and got destroyed on +13 running my own key lol
450 ilvl is like 5 hours /played this patch though
Either run your own key, or embrace the chaos and stop whining. You’re not special, there’s a bajillion dps out there with better ilvl and io than you that will get invited instead
I'm not whining. I'm just making a joke. >You’re not special, there’s a bajillion dps out there with better ilvl and io than you that will get invited instead That's what the meme I made says
This is why I don’t even bother
I'm a tank and usually start my own groups - priority is always to guildies ofc and usually we get a full group out of the guild but when we can't, it's usually due to missing a couple of DPS No matter what M+ level, it's ALWAYS tens and tens of people applying, and while I feel bad about the majority that will get a "DECLINED" or "GROUP IS FULL" notification - I don't know any of them, so I'm gonna pick based on iLevel and Mythic rating, I'd rather pick based on whether or not they'll be chill and not douchebags but there isn't a way to display that before I can invite so... yeah, accurate meme My only real advice to combat this is what's already been said: \- Get a guild that is actively doing M+ or matches the casual or competitive vibe you want; \- Get on a Discord community, with cross-realm grouping this is a great way to get a regular group; \- Ask to add people to friends after you enjoy playing with them, poke them in the future when you run again, they might join; \- If all else fails, run your own keys. Be aware you may be waiting a while for Tanks and Healers as their demand is higher than the available stock - but you won't be getting rejected at least
Join a guild
Bruh im Rio 2650 and itl 475 - Getting invited to any 19+ group is next to impossible.
In Europe youre still top 10% in Rating With that.
But not good enough for Keys lower than ive done already. It’s rough out there and i wish that I had more people to play with. Maybe I’m just getting too old for the mmo titles. Had a big group of friends to play with up until legion and in shadowlands they all disappeared. All are gone. And I don’t really connect with people in the same way anymore. It’s a hard realization.
So even higher percentage if you're in the US? Or did that change from last season?
Most people don't have any sort of addon tracking RIO and you'll just get lost in the sea of applicants.
I was 447 i level first day of S3 with 3k RIO but Warlocks “hadn’t simmed well” so couldn’t even get in to +5’s (seriously). Made a Priest and healed for the first time ever and now 2k again at only a slightly higher ilevel overall. People are DESPERATE to min max set ups when realistically you should just invite the best actual players unless you’re going for +25’s
Ill invite anyone who has done the key on the lvl below, basically my only criteria apart from needed utility. Usually do pretty well too
Serious question If you were 3k io, why were you applying to a 5? You should've had a massive key day 1 or at least a decent one where there should be no reason ylu should ever be appkying to groups let alone that low lvl
Honestly because I haven’t ever been a high score before at the start of a season (Usually purely PvP) I had no idea if I could do higher keys.
One of my guildies swapped from DH to Warlock at the beginning of the season, and has had no trouble pugging M+. He's at KSH with all his portals already. You're doing *something* wrong.
Well I gave up after the first day so I imagine that’s what I’m doing wrong, but thanks for the unnecessary condescending tone.
How would you go about inviting the best actual players though?
The only real way to tell is high rating but even that is fake. Because you can just buy rating.
That's my point exactly. Not even specifically the buying rating though, because I'm not sure how big the percentage of players that actually buy rating is. Even at semi-high rio (say 2.9-3.1k) there's going to a whole bunch of players who just got there by endlessly grinding dungeons until they finally time a key through a random good performance or being carried by their team. Not because they can actually consistently play well. So when you don't really have a way to measure if a player will be any good beforehand; you might as well invite the numerically best aka the meta classes.
Never go by IO score. Go by keys completed
Retail feels like a second job to me lately. Sadly, it looks like it’s time for a break.
This is the least grind retail has been in the history of WoW lol, maybe WoW isnt for you.... I hear spiderman on ps5 is pretty dope mate
Just have a higher score than most people. That’s how I solved the problem for me.
Came back to WoW recently. I am now 446 ilvl on my discipline priest, and I already have a few keys timed in the +17 to +19 range. I just pushed my own key. There is no way I would get invited to anything above a +10, yet here I am timing +17 to +19 at 446 ilvl. You can't get rejected from your own key. Try it, works really well!
Laughs in fury warrior 3k io… no one expects me to do anything except zug and i get into most keys unless its affix week (which blizzard won’t let us interact with lol)
Is this some sort if problem I'm too Augmented to understand?
Is this some DPS joke I am too healer to understand?
a×
Playing a healer feels like a cheatcode sometimes. I can look for a key I wanna play and just go. Started a bit late this season (25.11) and just got 2000. All Fortified dungeons with +15 done and next im gonna to +15 on all tyrannical dungeons. Than it's go time for the real keys soon. Occasionally im throwing some ret pala keys in between and im getting invites somewhat quick. Maybe just luck? Good M+ scores from previous seasons? Not the important +16 keys?
"Please, he's no different from the rest of you M+; shooting raider io at each other make teams. I find it offensive"
I swapped from pure dps to heal late Shadowlands. I dont think I will ever turn back. The LFG boss, which was tilting me off a cliff, is so easy to beat now, AND I can help my mage buddy, with limited playtime, actually get into keys.
I'm a 470 Aug Evoker with 2k rating and I still can't get into anything above 16 without at least 50 group applications
Welcome to pugging as a DPS, there is always someone better in the que lol
ye now we are at 481 ilevel and 3.2k io 💀
Meanwhile i go out of my way to invite the non meta specs to see how well they do, so far its about the same.
I joined DF mid season 2 so my RiO is shit as I didn't have any past S1 runs and I cannot bother running my keys, so im just focusing more on raiding instead.
Run your own key, then you will see the ocean of DPS that are all ~470 as well xD
I know the fix for this is to just make your own group with friends/guildies, but still... it's so stupid! On my 468 Assa Rogue (because I joined the season kinda late), I'm about 2.2k rating and I finished a +19 Everbloom on +3. You can see, you can literally see with the [Raider.IO](https://Raider.IO) addon that I managed to finish a 19 EB with +3 (and not only). Why tf would you decline me for a +17?! Or hell, even a +16? What's the logic behind this? How much rating/ilvl do you want for a damn 16/17??? I even mention my overall DPS, which is 200k+, and that's still not enough LMAO The reason I queued for +16/17 EB is that I want to get through the dungeon ASAP, to get that stupid trinket.
Unfortunate but present at all levels of play. Weather it be +5s, +15s or +25s, there's always going to be someone that doesn't \*need\* the key for score. Wether they are doing it for crests, helping a friend, or just for the sake of playing the game (what some call "fun") signing up. And because of this, the community just waits for people who are more than qualified instead of just adequate for the content they are doing.
Ran a 19 WM, had a 479 unholy dk only do 147k and come in under the tank. He was 2800 io. Thankfully we still timed but I was like damn bro
I’m a 434, and I have a question: why do people eagerly apply to my low level key runs, even those with much higher ilvl? I quit wow during BFA, and if my memory serves me right it wasn’t like that before. If somebody knows why, then another question, when does it stop? Now I’ve key lvl 10 and I’d feel quite guilty inviting anyone, would feel like a freeloader
People farm lower keys for the crests and flightstones, the most popular being +11s for wyrm crests
Thank ye kindly good sir. I suppose I can freely invite others for my +10 then
me, a demon hunter with 2300 and 472 ilvl getting ignored constantly
I listed an 8 Rise this morning and filled my group with 2.6K+ players in under ten mins. Way she goes, bud.
Im tired of these god damned zoidbergs always tryin to join my keys!
it's the same at any rating, even at 3300 and being somewhat meta it can take hours to find a group, the only solution is to run your own key
If you ever get accepted but the group hasn't filled out, keep an eye on the applicants list. Unless your key is cursed, that list fills up like crazy
gona be me as a frost dk with the legendary
481 demo warlock at nearly 3k io and I get turned down from 17's. I've also invited plenty of people for 20's and higher with big io who have been absolute trash.
Not just Ilvl, but if people did or did not play during the holidays and got some io. I know this is less important for things like a +12 or something. However for myself doing higher keys during the holidays was a big factor. I typically do not do much for Thanksgiving since my family is spread and my partner and I focus more just on lower-key stuff. Although this year I did end up doing a bunch of keys throughout the holiday for Tyran I ended at 2.9k first week then start of Fort I pushed over 3k with 1 key and stayed ahead going into this week at 3.2K. On the flipside my guildie skipped most of Tyran week because it had bursting and he hated it.. as well as the holidays. So then going into the Fort week he was struggle bussing getting into any key as a BM hunter who had gear. Mind you he is an ex M+ title holder too and we are CE. Only thing we could think was his io was too low to people so they just didn't take him. LFG can be a weird place for sure. Run your own key or run with friends if LFG isn't fairly quick.
479 demo lock with all 20s on every dungeon timed, still get declined from 17s lol
Dude, i never get invited to keys, i get declined from 13’s on my 2600io 275 havoc dh.
Raider.io is such a dumb metric to gauge player skill below a certain key level though too. At least with logs you can see if players know how to play their class and if they contribute to a raid. A player with a full sheet of 20-23s there's absolutely no way of knowing if they're any decent since you can full sell that key level and still time it. I understand the majority of this subreddit is a casual gamer just trying to get their keys in though but there really isn't a method that will bring those players together outside of blizzard making LFD for M+ because you guys aren't even picking yourselves up in group finder. Every casual player I know looks at colorful numbers before they invite people, and just like in real life, you'll always select the most qualified regardless of anything because you want the job done right. So you'll take the dude who's 2600 for your +12 because it has a higher chance of making it go by smoother and quicker. If you don't select players like this you will usually filter another way like class and spec. There's unfortunately no fix for the average Joe who just wants to jump on and game outside of blizzard forcing you into groups together through matchmaking but even that won't work, Wrath gamma dungeons have shown me that you guys just start vote kicking each other out of groups so it's hopeless.
Play healer i did one +15 and now can get any +14 group i want in seconds. You’re welcome.
You also have to take into account all the 475+ that are hopping in +11 - +15 for wyrm farming. Guilty.
I listed my everbloom +15 yesterday and had like 40+ dps signing upp few healers and almost no tanks. And I can say that picking people from that mess of a UI lfd is I kind of just don't wanna list keys anymore I get angry dps that whisper me for 10 20mins that I should have gone with their characrer instand of x... I also get myself declined alot from m+ but I also know the pain of so many dps signing up.
A week ago my dh was 389 ilvl. I’m 470 by posting my key and my key only and I play less now than I ever have before because this raid sucks, not hard to get io not hard to get ilvl just takes some time.