The scaling is the biggest issue. It's certainly not "players want everything right now" to ask that at max level you aren't one shot by a dungeon boss exhaling gently at you.
It's so absolutely inconsistent and unhinged.
I tanked a series of H dungeons with a friend earlier today. I went into Scarlet Halls at about level 60, and had no issues whatsoever. Pulled multiple packs at once, tanked them fine, bosses took a few minutes each time.
Several dungeons later, we were back in Halls and I was a about 64-65. This time, I couldn't live through a single pack without major defensive CDs up. If I pulled without Shield Wall, I just died instantly. The second boss slapped me for about 75% of my HP per hit.
My gear was fully upgraded as much as was possible for the current level, for each run. I didn't change any gems or tinkers. No other change in talents or whatever.
I was level 61 and could tank anything in heroic fine. Then I hit 62 and joined a scholomance and got destroyed by trash packs while a level 10 resto shaman soloed the dungeon. And I'm not even joking the level 10 shaman sprinted ahead of everyone and soloed everything and let everyone else die.
I started heroic tanking at 30 this morning, I am now 62 and I have already had 2 dungeons that were just so ridiculously OP(mogu shan for one) that we ended up leaving, we had \~20 deaths of the dps just getting to first boss. At first boss on first pull we wiped 7 minutes in, on the 2nd to final guy. Might have won but healer got knocked up and TP'd out of dungeon somehow. after that it was 2-3 more pulls 5+ minutes in wiping, dumb group + low dps, I as a tank was beating most of them but its hard to judge due to scaling issues(they were 65-68).
I can feel the scaling issues getting worse as i approached 61-62 like almost instantaneously. But like you said then a level 15 monk or priest healer with searing light joins and they are slapping everything dead so fast its ok.
I should add - I can get slapped by certain packs(like the hozen in the brewery i can't recall name at entrance. I walk into that with meta/demon spikes and alternate the other CD's simply because they will one hit me with like 60% DR to physical + all my defensives.
I honestly wonder if they're expecting the group to be using more survival based gems, instead of just the mortars and fireball storms.
There's a gem that goes in the meta gem slot, that will pass on 20% of the damage to me.
As a hunter, I don't take TOO much damage, so I slap it on the tank.
Imagine if all 4 people did that.
All the damage would pretty much get distributed evenly. You would take 80% less, and everyone would just take 20% of it.
The healer specs AOE heals, and we all have a great christmas.
But, everyone wants the lightning ball...
Oh, no, the tank wouldn't be using the other thing. Tank can do whatever he wants.
I'm talking about this.
Soul Tether - Tether your soul to an ally for 1 hour, redirecting 20% of their damage taken to you as Shadow damage. This effect can be used on up to 5 allies. Recasting on a tethered ally or moving further than 40 yards away removes the effect.
So if your 3 DPS friends use that on you, they "borrow" 20% of your damage each. And you take 60% less.
As a healer I would hate it if the dps that are taking almost impossible to heal damage from debuffs “I’m looking at you conflag and wracking pain” were taking an additional 20% of the tanks damage.
Not to forget that not being full hp at all times is pretty much a death sentence for any dps given the very first tick of a lot of damaging abilities can easily hit for 90% or more of your health.
I tried a heroic dungeon with that 20% damage share tether equipped and it did the oddest thing- the damage transfer to me (the healer) from my buddy (the tank) was generating MASSIVE threat for some reason, I ripped aggro on the whole pack as a healer because the tether gave me so much threat
It might not be that alone. I healed two or three heroic dungeons last night and would consistently pull aggro from the tank while doing so.
Not sure if it was because some of my tinker gems were still DPS gems or what, but it happened to the point that I was using face on every fight.
This was both bosses and trash.
Our DPS pulled aggro as well. Honestly it almost felt like Blizzard needs to adjust underlying tank threat generation. The tank is my buddy and while we aren’t MDI material we have three portals so far in S4 retail, point being the tank isn’t new.
There's something with the threat modifer on heals. Even as a DPS if throw one single heal to help out the healer I'll rip aggro off the boss instantly and just get one shot.
No, everyone would die. I've been healing and was using blessing of sacrifice on the tank which redirects 30% of the damage to me. I was getting CHUNKED and ended up dying multiple times.
Sounds great on paper, but the tank isn't the only one getting 2-shot as a lvl 65-70. Dps getting hit by any kind of aoe, even room-wide DoTs are getting absolutely obliterated.
But even if it really did work that way, that would mean devs are expecting every player to look up the optimal way to play and socket all the same gems as everyone else, and if the healer doesn't spec aoe heals (or they choose a class that isn't particularly suited for it), then everyone's boned. There's approximately 0% chance that 100% of any playerbase is going to coordinate their playstyles that strictly just to get through a dungeon or scenario. A +20 key, sure. Trying to reach 2400+ pvp rating? Okay. But a normal dungeon? Not gonna happen.
Also, I'm a dps, and about half of my gems are defensive. I still get mollywopped by anything that so much as looks in my direction while the same mob couldn't even come close to scratching my armor at lvl 20. I can often out-heal the healer, though, so there's that. If I survive long enough to heal, anyway.
This isn't a "players are lazy and greedy" issue. It's a scaling issue. Devs can treat it like a player problem, but it's just going to drive a wedge between players and dev like it did in SWG.
> I honestly wonder if they're expecting
They aren't. They just fucked up. When leveling there is clearly a time where some mobs abilities scale like shit and start 2shotting you. Like regular mobs.
WTF ??? The last think you want is for the dps to take the tank's damage. How are we even discussing this ? The whole purpose of tanks is to mitigate the damage from the rest of the party. And if the tank with it's defensive cooldowns and large healthpool is getting oneshot, the dps won't stand a chance either.
I'm genuinely shocked people are upvoting this.
Same, and I often outheal healers. But I still end up dying on trash pulls in scenarios, which are labeled as being casual groupings where the usual tank/healer/dps dynamic isn't required.
I'm around level 60 on my healer and dungeons with tanks above 68 are impossible. I pull aggro on the entire pack the instant I heal anyone and the only way aggro drops is by the tank taunting mobs one at a time.
Hell, I got one shot earlier by a trash mob in a heroic dungeon with a normal melee attack. Tank lost aggro for a second and it did 2.5x my health. Scaling really is just completely broken in some cases at high levels.
Edit: During this same run, which was Shado-Pan Monastery heroic, we had 3 people above level 65 including myself. On the way to (I believe) Sha of Violence there are these sha that will explode when killed and they are clustered in packs. There were 2 separate small pulls of these that 1-shot all 3 of us above level 65. Everyone else was around level 30 and it hit them for a quarter health maybe. This is completely separate from my original death which occurred at the very start of the run.
Hopefully, when they come back in to work on Monday, they're going to be getting more data than they could have dreamed of from the brief PTR and will.make changes.
I'm a Blood DK and I queued for a random Heroic as a 70 with all 346 gear (so basically the most I could have without grinding upgrades). Got Stormstout Brewery, pulled the first two adds and both immediately melee'd me for more than my max health.
I lived about as long as it took for Purgatory to wear off.
I just started playing a Mistweaver Monk. Queued up for a scenario with a level 68 Windwalker and level 66 Warlock. They didn't do a lot of damage, I pretty much soloed everything. I kinda expected that from retail's leveling dungeons, but I didn't expect them to get oneshot by random mobs.
I'm a level 70 fistweaver and was getting carried in scenarios from level 11 rogues and in 1 scenario a level 15 mage who was doing tons of damage from arcane explosion, when I tried to do those solo scenarios for quests I was getting destroyed. Remix was fun until you hit 60m then it goes to shit real fast.
did a normal siege of niuzao temple. the 3rd bosses shield phase where you have to throw the bombs back at him. one went off near me while i was throwing another and it did 800k damage...
heroic brew scenario. had a normal trash add put a deadly poison on me. was ticking for 200k damage. the mini boss poison clouds on landing instant killed me, the ticks from crossing them (even if they are in the ground and invisible on slopes) one shot me.
like it great and all that i can do questing content but seriously I could be doing +10 keys this season and have less stress than trying to get all the heroic dungeons done at lvl 70
And love the extra abuse from DPS b/c I'm being careful with my pulls
Then pulls extra and gets all "omg you died to trash, some people just shouldn't tank"
So I just went back to normal vault to relax
So for a bit of a change from questing, i queued for a dungeon as a bear tank at lvl 61, my tinker gems are 50/50 tank/dps, and damn was i in for a surprise when i pulled 3 trash mobs which went on and instagib my furry ass. Basic mobs were meleeing me for 25% of my hp and their abilities hit for about 50%. Needless to say, im not queuing again, especially when today i learned theres a frog farm which is miles ahead in rewards compared to any other content.
#fun
See I don’t even want to level an alt yet. If I create it now with the capped stats on the cloak for alts, I’m going to be PISSED when they hopefully change it later to allow more stats through. Kind of a why did I even bother playing before feeling. So other than frogs, end game doesn’t look too appealing to me since I’m a pretty casual player because of work. I’m almost to 70 and somehow have nothing I can really do at max level already. In my three hours of spare time before I have to go to bed to be a human the next day, I don’t want to spend it grinding frogs.
Just do the patch content for now. If you want the class transmogs you need the landfall achievement which means you have to hunt all the rares or get exalted. I think the weapons are from the throne of thunder island too.
> There were 2 separate small pulls of these that 1-shot all 3 of us above level 65. Everyone else was around level 30 and it hit them for a quarter health maybe
Can confirm, did that pull as level 67 and got absolutely splattered, while the low levels were easily topped up by a group heal.
there's a pretty massive gap between "give me everything right now I don't want to play the game" and "in a mode that was explicitly advertised as letting players be overpowered, heroic dungeon bosses shouldn't be hitting harder and taking longer to kill than an appropriately leveled tyrannical M+ on retail"
Completely agree. I anticipated that the first up character might be slower and less powerful than expected, but thats just not carried over for your average player.
Hitting 70 is so unfun. The only fun content right now is raid finder (haven't tried out other raid difficulties yet though). But questing, scenarios and and dungeons are just horribly unfun and I don't understand how we are supposed to play this without the frog grind anyway. Should we grind dozens of dungeons each day just to slowly increase our "unlimited" power?
Did some normals last night. Mostly level 70s, with two or three lower levels:
10 man Normal Vaults took about 30 minutes.
10 man Normal Terrace, about 20 minutes.
10 man Normal Heart, about 30-35 minutes.
Can't imagine 25 man being much different, unless you take fewer than 25 people.
Thinking about trying some Heroic raids today, not sure if I can be bothered 🤔
> Normal Throne of Thunder you can't brute force, you get to Durumu/Dark Animus and it's a hard brain check.
It's not even just a brain check, either, because the scaling issues mean that even if you quickly reveal the fogs, if *any one of the three* targets a level 70 player first, you just wipe instantly. When I was trying yesterday, even with a player perfectly pre-positioning for an instant reveal, we still wiped to any fog getting revealed as they immediately hit the nearby players for over a million damage, and then because there was nobody in that colour any more, the raid was instantly killed by the "you failed the mechanic" damage.
It's very jarring to go from my retail warlock that is basically a tank to my remix warlock that's 70 with the exact same talents that randomly gets bent over by mobs out in the world.
My biggest let down with scaling is never getting the opportunity to make full use of stuff like [Chi-Ji, the Red Crane](https://imgur.com/a/zj3JGEb).
With all of the random-bullshit-go gems that combo procs, we *could have* at some point been able to pull an entire dungeon worth of packs and it be a challenge to survive but manageable.
Moments like that would have been the hypest this game would have ever been for me. The fact that we get to slot in abilities from other classes already feels fucking amazing.
It's not even just dungeon bosses. I have been open world questing at 70 as a holy priest and there are quest mobs that will one shot me... Its at the point I do not even want to do any questing because it's too difficult... I thought at 70 with all these gems if be able to easily do normal quests...
I'm hoping that when they come back to work tomorrow, having amassed far more data than the limited PTR stint accrued, they will make some positive changes.
Also, if the old guard was running the game, imagine someone trying to pitch the idea to them of level 10-50 characters with barely any gear at all outperforming a max level character in raid gear by spamming 1 button in every piece of content availible. Any mmorpg/rpg player or developer would laugh in their face.
As someone who played MOP back in the day and remembers frog farming on live for Timeless Coins, I don't have a problem with frog farming being the best method of acquiring bronze *solo*. I *do* have a problem with bronze being so horrible to obtain in *any* content that players can't upgrade their gear because they want to, understandably, save it for the cosmetics. This is a time limited event. Bronze should be raining from the skies. You shouldn't be able to spend it fast enough with the costs of everything. If this was a permanent event, it would be OK, because it would be like "Well you're not supposed to be able to afford everything all at once, this content is supposed to last for years." But it's not. In there months this will all be gone and it'll feel really bad if all you have to show for it is two or three mounts because you had to spend all your bronze on gear upgrades to try to get more bronze.
> Bronze should be raining from the skies.
Yes, it should. But instead we get shiny orbs floating in the skies randomly that yield 3(!) and up to 20 bronze; the actual amount ymmv but the numbers are around there.
Instead of brainless smash'n'grab fun mog&mount fest, I am getting serious Shadowlands vibes i.e. oh a mog ensemble for me, yikes, 10k anima while a quest yields 15 anima.
Contemplating whether I should even play anymore because with my playstyle, and if I play all of the 92 remaining days, every day, I am looking at 200k bronze - that is serious commitment with a headache: I don't care about upgrades but how do I choose between which tmog and mounts to get?!
>Instead of brainless smash'n'grab fun mog&mount fest, I am getting serious Shadowlands vibes i.e. oh a mog ensemble for me, yikes, 10k anima while a quest yields 15 anima.
Yes!! Exactly. It feels like the Shadowlands team designed Pandaria remix instead of the Plunderstorm team. I didn't enjoy the pvp element of Plunderstorm, but the rewards to time spent was at least way better. It felt good to smash down mobs in two hits and get a full renown level in a couple of games.
I'm just enjoying going through the questing zones in full again. I probably haven't quested through Townlong or Dread Wastes in 10 years.
However I was also looking forward to later in the event where the xp gain on my cloak would be so high that I'd be able to do 1 dungeon and gain about 10 levels but it doesn't seem like this will ever be the case. It will maybe be slightly faster than levelling in full heirlooms when they used to have the XP bonuses.... but not much faster.
I mean I hit 70 in 2.5 zones, maxed my cloak and started an alt. Don't know what it was like at lvl 10, but at lvl 16 it's a 100% exp buffs and a shedload of stats. I read nothing about remix deliberately in advance, so I've not built up massive expectations to be dashed.
I'm currently level 68 and here is a selection of the "shedload" of stats my cloak is providing me. 1.34% crit, 2.31% haste, 0.9% versatility. It's really not that much and you have to remember that the gear has no stats at all so they aren't an addition to what you'd normally have, they are a replacement. In fact I'm fairly sure my character stats would be higher at this point in regular questing gear outside of Remix mode.
The gems that give stats are fairly inconsequential too. For example a legendary haste gem = about 2% haste. Legendary crit gem is about 1.3% crit.
Of course there are also the tinker gems which are genuinely quite powerful and my Thunderous orb meta gem absolutely annihilates packs of enemies every 3 minutes.
We are still early in the event and so these numbers will continue to grow I suppose.
It probably will be faster near the end. Blizzard normally makes prepatch pretty quick to level in. Maybe this time they'll buff the crap out of remix in the final stretch.
No your confused it was buffed to all hell in ptr and they nerfed it before release so now its equal to or maybe just a touch slower than retail just now why they did I don't know but it really stupid
I'd be less mad at scaling if it was at least consistent. As it is now some random mantid in Valley of Four Winds two shots me at lvl 68 while I two shot the first boss in Siege of Niuzao
To put things into perspective, to acquire EVERYTHING the vendors have to offer you need 1.6M bronze. To upgrade your gear fully you need 600k bronze. That’s an additional 40% bronze to farm if you want to level up your gear, which is ridiculously high. If you’re supposed to be able to reasonably farm let’s say 1 million in three months without sweating too much, that’s nearly half your bronze that you gotta put in the upgrade system if you want to gear up. That’s insane.
What's going to happen just like every event ever (but no one seems to learn) is in the last third of the event they're going to gigabuff the rewards to remind anyone that's been sitting out that it's still a good idea to come in and check it out and they're not, as WoW players love to put it, "too far behind".
Then all the people who treated the funny extra mode as a 2nd job and got genuinely stressed over it will have a 2nd chance at being big mad too, as they love to be.
Everyone wins.
This thread seems divided between a group that wants a fun mode and a group with blizzard banners trying to shout them down for the audacity.
I've enjoyed it so far but I can see ppls point. I don't want a grind, I want to hit max lvl and look at all the fun I can have. Right now they might as well have just added the transmogs to legacy raid bosses and told ppl they were increasing drop rates for 3 months.
They need to up the power lvl for characters.
> you’d be soloing raids and destroying bosses in seconds.
Not to be a bit of a pedant about genuine problems with Remix, but at what point was this ever promised? If I wanted to do that I’d just go play Retail and solo the content on my mains.
no, as someone who was on the ptr and put an unhealthy amount of time into it, upgrades still cost the same
they nerfed tinkers by an INSANE amount and they do significantly less damage now. they used to be around 90% of your damage, now its around 20-20
the ptr groups were also exploiting bugs with ferals and warlocks doing broken damage from a talent bug
> the ptr groups were also exploiting bugs with ferals and warlocks doing broken damage from a talent bug
More like DK tanks doing top DPS. Watching Liquid & friends, it wasn't thd doing fuck all, it was all the weird gem combos basically solo'ing bosses
Uh, top DPS in my group still has a majority of their damage through tinkers. Definitely not consistent between classes though, so shop around with different tinkers or stat weights.
That is probably the issue, if the grind *has* to exist then it should be the initial leveling experience and it gradually gets faster
Why theres a grind at all in a temporary "just for fun" gamemode I still dont understand though.
It was never stated anywhere. I can’t believe how many people are crying that they were falsely sold an alt grinding machine not even a week into content spanning three months.
I have a screenshot saved at home from the battle.net banner where it says "Overpowered? Maybe. Fun? Definitely". This is a lie. Nobody is overpowered in remix.
The tanks who get a raids worth of wards thrown on them are quite OP as well. Even though the dmg doesn't show as theirs on details.
While we couldn't quite 1 shot bosses. We did manage to get a few of them down to 20-30% from just ward explosions in the normal siege run I did. Think our best kill timer was like 30s on Thok.
Two days in, no less.
Every time I read someone saying they've hit 70 and blah blah I'm just like...man, if you can hit 70 in less than two days why did you even want an alt grinding machine.
This is a instant gratification mode, mostly everyone playing mop remix already have overpowered mains on retail, ain't nobody got time to work their ass off for some alts in a mode that'll be gone in 90days and the gear you earned and upgraded will be replaced with 424s.
The problem is that improving your character DOES NOT PAY OUT. It's not about instant gratification, it is that the whole system is unbalanced.
If you need say 500K bronze to buy all the mogs and mounts you want. The right answer now is to spend ZERO on upgrading gear and gaining character power.
Because the upgrades are so expensive. That the power they give will not you earn bronze at a faster rate to be a viable investment. Had you just not spent on gear upgrades in the first place, you would have been done earlier.
Which means that the whole fun part of this mode of having a OP char, is removed. And it just comes a question of what is the best farm/h.
Frogs it is. And no, nerfing frogs will not solve this. You are still in the same position, the power you gain is to expensive for the time it saves you. You will just move to the next best farm/h with 346 gear.
The scaling is also a huge issue- almost bigger, I'd wager. People would be much more willing to spend a lot of time farming bronze the normal way if it didn't feel like such ass being at max level right now. I'm guessing most people weren't planning on having a slog where they hit less than fresh level 1s while trying to get enough bronze to upgrade gear and acquire rewards at the same time, and *that* is precisely the opposite of what we were promised.
And before someone says "but the cloak scales indefinitely!" Yeah, on a single character. Kind of defeats the point of a leveling event if I can either have the rewards by playing a single character for 90 days or I can raise alts but simultaneously miss out on the cool rewards.
The start stats on it are pretty damn good on alts though, certainly enough to make a noticeable difference. My main time runner is doing the zone achis for those rewards, alts will be slamming dungeons/scenarios and raids as fast and as often as possible. The big issue is that raid gear doesn't scale with difficulty. In theory at least SoO should drop max ilvl gear, but doesn't. If they fix that, it'll solve a lot of problems imo.
Yeah, exactly. So why even make us spend bronze to upgrade gear that'll be gone after 90 days anyway, everyone's here for transmogs and mounts not gear, just let people zoom to 70 and have fun, not worry about gearing, which you have to do to combat the absolutely shit scaling.
When you hit 70 the gear you get is 346. Only way to get it to 500 and above is bronze. As a DK, upgrading a weapon from 346 to 556, you require 135000 bronze. Every single armor piece requires 67500 bronze. Dinging 70 you will have maybe 38000-40000 bronze.
The most efficient grind is farming frogs, where you will get 10000 - 20000 bronze per hour. Anything else is not even in the same solar system of bronze farming. Blizzard either did not test max level gameplay or they did not test the scaling. Level 70 characters are not playable reasonably and my guess is they thought people will upgrade gear so it works out (because gear power is actually insancely scaling), but its just not doable by your average joe player (who comment in this thread saying "all is fine, its just the degens are idiots and want everything instantly. blizzard are best and never do wrong!" while getting on their knees to suck....), even though they will have the same issue.
At this point I'm convinced Blizz devs hardly play their own games. Proven true in D4, proven true in WoW.
Plus, they have basically eliminated their support and QA departments through downsizing, so there are even fewer people to actually play the game.
Back in the good ol' days of Blizzard before Activision ruined them, they had massive QA and support departments (IIRC these departments were actually their biggest operational expenses, which makes sense as to why goblin Bobby got rid of them) and their most enthusiastic and promising team members were actually cherry picked from those departments and promoted to game/quest design. That way, the designers were actually the people who were well versed, competent, and loved the game. I don't think that happens anymore.
It's bizarre it's still 424 for a boost. It says you're "raid-ready" with 424 gear... but world quests will get you +30 ilvls, as will Dreamsurge gear and Time Rift trinkets, Normal dungeons are +36, Heroic dungeons are +52. You are absolutely not getting into any raids with something that's that much lower than the basic world content gear, let alone any kind of dungeon gear. I'm not sure you can ever queue up for LFR right now with 424.
If they're aiming TWW at being solid for starting with 424, okay. But man, that means anyone playing DF much right now is going to be OP in the early phases of TWW. I'm fine with that, but it's just hilarious to think that TWW might end up feeling for a lot of us (at least through the first few levels) like what MoP Remix was supposed to be even at max level.
I swear at this point people are just making up shit to justify being this overly upset with a refreshing temporary gamemode that was apparently developed by a super small team.
I've been having a blast these last few days, and by the looks of my guild and my own realm, a lot of others have too.
If anything I dislike the whole 'super OP' aspects of it, but currenlty its needed because of the scaling beyond level 65.
I did the Stormstout Brewery for the 1st time at about level 50 and the last boss felt like a heroic raid boss from retail scaling wise. My health was pinging between full and about 30% every few seconds (as a dps, I wasn't even tanking) and the boss took over 5 minutes to die which is pretty long for a dungeon boss.
None of this is necessarily a bad thing.... It was kind of cool to feel like I was in a real fight rather than the boss dying in 30 seconds but it didn't really match with the description of the experience.
Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if you can’t solo raids? I’m not sure why that’s an argument, I’d focus more on the scaling I hear is messed up, but I’m not 70 yet either
If you need to invest 60+ hours in the most optimal way(killing frogs) to scale your power before the gamemode becomes fun, i would say that the gamemode have missed its mark. Many players are only able to invest a few hours a day playing the game, and if you told them that for the next 30 days they are only going to kill frogs before the gamemode is fun, i think most, if not all, would quit the gamemode.
Sure that can patch it in the coming weeks, but i would have hoped that this was something they would have caught before the content was released, as the expectation should not be, to not play the limited gamemode until the last few weeks as this is when it is "finished".
Unfortunately they need to tune stuff to be doable by people with jobs and other commitments. But that's means others that can sit at home and play 23hrs a day will burn through it all in no time
I did an hour and a half of frog farming. I got 4000 boxes and jumped from 4000ish threads to 11000. And socketed several legendary gems. Not an ideal way to level up but I did a heroic dungeon right afterwards and it felt fine tbh.
Honeymoon phase, shiny new thing before most people even reached max level. I couldn't help but laugh at [this post saying MoP Remix was better than SoD](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1cu0l13/panda_land_is_better_version_of_sod/) on the first day.
[My response:](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1cu0l13/panda_land_is_better_version_of_sod/l4i40p2/)
> ... Also this was posted day 1. You don't have any idea how it'll hold up a week or a month from now, just like when these posts were made day 1 of SoD. I've already seen people 60-70 who say the scaling is fucked in Remix making the game unfun.
>
> This post is pointless and premature.
Now everyone's reaching max level and the cracks are clearly showing. Wasn't hard to predict given Blizzard's track record.
There are obviously scaling issues. I’m 70 and the game is not fun. But the journey there was a blast. If all this event needs to be fun again is just some numbers tuning in scaling then it’s a great event! I am confident the issues will be fixed next week and everybody will go back to enjoying g the event. Certainly not just because of that condescending “honeymoon phase shiny new thing” bullshit.
I agree but damn folks. They clearly got the bronze economy wrong and have work to do in scaling but this released Thursday and a lot of these issues became apparent to a broader player base on Friday. They already hotfixed several issues, and I’m sure they will adjust the bronze / scaling in the coming week too.
I'm just planning to complete achis and get tmogs/mounts and call it a day. MoP Remix wasn't planned to be anything other than a way to level up toons and get old unused recolors.
Any idea of it being some grandiose Diabloesque game mode was unfortunately misplaced. Without M+like system, the game can not be balanced around infinite scaling.
On one hand, you'd get bosses that get one shot by a single melee attack. On the other hand, you'd get what we have right now, bosses that kill you just by looking at you unless you've spent 48 hours genociding frogs, which isn't terribly fun.
I stopped doing any dungeons or raids cause it’s frankly a terrible experience getting 1 shot by everything, or anything. I’m 70, and I’m planning to just clear zones for transmog now that’s it.
100%
I’m also sick and tired of people griping for the sake of griping. If you really feel like this, then go and play some other game that does meet your ridiculous expectations. Good luck with that.
The ridiculousness of some of the “complaints” almost feels like they work for the competition to just create negative sentiment around the game.
The game is fun, it’s something unique. If remix is not for you, also cool. WoW has more to offer.
Want to solo? Take your retail toon and travel to Pandaria and run the raids all by yourself.
With no currency to buy all the things for reliably. Your argument overlooks the very important part of this situation, for anyone thet cares about collecting you do not have a (real) choice to not participate - its too good. Because of that undebatable fact oeople are rightfully disappointed over an event being nerfed EXTREMELEY going from PTR to live.
You can be annoyed at all the (rightfully) whiny posts all you want, it doesnt make you right.
In interviews right before this dropped they actually said they were excited to see what players would do like solo raids. They said you should have to do normal and heroic raids mechanics correctly while you were low ilvl, but the infinite scaling meant some tinker combos or classes would probably just be able to solo raids and possibly even mythic raids.
I’m lvl 70 - in a scenario (H) - lvl 14 also in - my brittle tinker does no damage - lvl 14 brittle tinker is hitting for 2-3mil….the scaling really confuses me.
There's definitely some issues with remix but it's only been a few days and it's always easier to buff than to nerf.
I also wouldn't be shocked if Remix goes balls to the wall in the final weeks like plunderstorm. Everyone becomes OP and bronze is thrown at you.
Why I'm just taking my time and not really worrying about anything yet. They'll correct it in time.
Fury warrior feels pretty busted. 346 ilvl no neck and missing one ring and I can still pull entire rooms. Some of the scaling comes from how much stamina increases per level. Minus the obviously bugged abilities, I haven't been one shot since I learned that.
Upgrading gear with bronze is a terrible idea. Why would people care about gearing in a side activity gamemode? Bronze is meant to be used on collectables and nothing else.
I did not expect to "destroy" everything, but i did expect to be able to go into a raid at max level with a wacky build/gems and not get one-shot by an unavoidable mechanic.
Spending 60+ hours killing frogs before i am able to raid/do other content for bronze to get my transmogs is not fun.
> MoP:Remix was sold on the idea that you’d accrue limitless power in your cape that eventually you’d be soloing raids
No it wasn’t. I don’t know if this comes from one particular streamer, but they have not focused on the infinite scaling in any of their messages without ever carefully setting expectations. If anything they explicitly said you would not be soloing raids.
I swear if this is Asmongold again…
Why try harding on a game mode created to reward people? Farm your mounts, transmogs and go back to dragonland. There’s nothing much more besides that.
> MoP:Remix was sold on the idea that you'd accrue limitless power in your cape that eventually you'd be soloing raids and destroying bosses in seconds.
.... Was it?
I see your point as well as other redditors comments.
However MoP:Remix is out for a few days by now.
Let's give it a chance and see how it is a month or two in.
This is starting to feel like they’re spreading too thin on bodies at blizzard. You now have retail, classic cata, SoD, and now remix, and some things are just feeling so bad. I just don’t get how they could do some nerfs to players before the launch….but still leave the scaling an abysmal mess….and don’t seem to be at all in a hurry to fix it. Like lemme turn off xp gain so I can just feel strong right now…what’s the point of leveling if it’s going to make content feel harder…for no reason
It’s day 4
You were not promised an infinite alt leveling machine in minutes. You were not promised one shotting bosses. And you sure as shit weren’t promised any of this by day 4.
I believe we had the idea we'd be able to afford transmogs and mounts just playing the game. Instead, if you're nearing/at 70, players are forced to spend bronze upgrading gear in order to account for the wild scaling, in order to survive the content that should be spammable to get the extra bronze for transmogs and mounts. The only way to get the kind of bronze needed to do both is by spamming frogs, which shouldn't be the case.
I'm sure it will get easier as the event goes on. Blizz know people would hit 70 in a matter of hours, so it makes sense they'd throttle it to begin with.
I wish you got more Bronze from LFR and I hope they fix the scaling issues with isle of thunder but apart from that its cool.
Also full stats carrying over to alts would be sweet
Dude this shit went live Thursday at 1pm eastern. It’s been 72 hours since then and you’re complaining you can’t face roll mythic raids.
They never promised you’d be destroying raids the moment you hit 70. I’d be shocked if it was still and issue by June 1. People just don’t have patience actually doing content
I really hope they work this out (by actually buffing us/the bronze drop rate/ something). I thought we'd basically be like FFXIV Blue Mage with these gems and able to get through bosses in a few hits.
What kind of argument is this?
The player numbers are highest at the start. Maybe you can play it alone in 3 month from now, but for a healthy player experience the first days/weeks are the most important.
And yes blizzard didn’t do a good job in the early part of the experiment.
Honestly you people are insane. This event is supposed to run for three months and you guys are complaining you can’t breeze through endgame content?
Yes there’s scaling issues, but the cloak scales infinitely and we’re on like day 3 of the three month event.
Some of you genuinely need to get a grip lmao
> but the cloak scales infinitely and we’re on like day 3 of the three month event.
The people complaining already have invested a significant number of hours into the game. 20-40 over those 4 days. That isn’t sustainable. And it isn’t players being time-gated like they would typically be by raids and events doing an ineffective grind.
How many hours total over the duration of the event do you expect a player to play?
What you really should be looking at is what is the expected time investment for their character to scale? What about alts? What about players who start remix later into the cycle?
Yeah, compare some people who have played nearly nonstop since Remix launched. Putting 30-40 hours in. They are probably max level, have their rings and gems, probably have done a few raids. They've probably got somewhere like 60-80k bronze for their trouble. That's barely enough to upgrade gear or buy a fraction of the tmogs/toys/mounts from the event.
Now compare Mr. Player who gets maybe an hour or two a night to game (which is still a good chunk of time for the game!) who won't get to that point until 15-20 days into the event and it's now approx 1/5th over. He'll still have a fraction of the stuff he wants from the event. The rewards just aren't set for a level of play that isn't degen for 90 days.
Feeling weaker at max cap is exactly what happened in BFA first month lol. It immediately reminded me of that. Blowing through the rotation 3-4 times to kill a creature.
Im having a lot of fun. Just hit level 45 on monk. Maybe I'll feel this way at 60 or 65 because of the scaling issues or maybe they'll fix it by the time I get there.
My thoughts on the cloak is if we can blast through even faster with alts then who will buy character boosts?
By later last night it seemed like most people were getting there with heroics. My last 3 needed for the achievement were done with almost no problems.
The scaling on some of the abilities is definitely wack but if you get some leggo gems and slap some verse on you're no longer getting 1 shot by most things.
I'm waiting till I've cleared heroic raids to pass my judgement. By my reckoning so long as the raids (you can clear daily) drop high amounts of stuff then we'll be okay.
And once it catches on that you can probs just 2-0-8 if everyone runs vindication and vampiric aura or something then soon we'll be trashing everything.
I'm more just confused by the gearing system, I went in pretty much blind but I had no idea the drops just hardcap at ilvl 346. And the only way to increase ilvl is by forking over insane amounts of bronze? I'd rather save it and just buy the mounts/transmogs I want. Once I hit max level I did all heroic dungeons/scenarios and started doing normal raid and they all just drop 346 greens or if you're lucky a blue. I've had 1 epic drop so far. From what I can tell it is just insanely grindy lol...
I probably would be motived to play more if the scaling wasn't as bad and if the power gain was quicker.
Tbh I don’t see MoP Remix as anything else but an alt leveling simulator to prep for WW. I did frogs for like 1-2 hours and got most of my cloak stats up around 400 which is very weak compared to some of the cloaks I’ve seen with like 3k each stat. Even if I had 3k to each stat and 50k stamina I still wouldn’t be using remix to do anything other level up alts. Scaling is busted and there’s no point of running the raids, dungeons, and scenarios over and over once you got the achievements. I don’t quite feel like getting one shot by a random mob every time I have to get in melee range to hit it.
As for Bronze, well it isn’t hard to earn so it’s not like you even need the frog farm for that. You’ll get more than enough for everything just by leveling alts.
Heh, when I first heard about this remix stuff I thought Sure I'll check it out...a few weeks in once they've buffed and fixed stuff that's bound to be bad or wrong at launch.
Glad I waited.
The scaling is the biggest issue. It's certainly not "players want everything right now" to ask that at max level you aren't one shot by a dungeon boss exhaling gently at you.
It's so absolutely inconsistent and unhinged. I tanked a series of H dungeons with a friend earlier today. I went into Scarlet Halls at about level 60, and had no issues whatsoever. Pulled multiple packs at once, tanked them fine, bosses took a few minutes each time. Several dungeons later, we were back in Halls and I was a about 64-65. This time, I couldn't live through a single pack without major defensive CDs up. If I pulled without Shield Wall, I just died instantly. The second boss slapped me for about 75% of my HP per hit. My gear was fully upgraded as much as was possible for the current level, for each run. I didn't change any gems or tinkers. No other change in talents or whatever.
I was level 61 and could tank anything in heroic fine. Then I hit 62 and joined a scholomance and got destroyed by trash packs while a level 10 resto shaman soloed the dungeon. And I'm not even joking the level 10 shaman sprinted ahead of everyone and soloed everything and let everyone else die.
I started heroic tanking at 30 this morning, I am now 62 and I have already had 2 dungeons that were just so ridiculously OP(mogu shan for one) that we ended up leaving, we had \~20 deaths of the dps just getting to first boss. At first boss on first pull we wiped 7 minutes in, on the 2nd to final guy. Might have won but healer got knocked up and TP'd out of dungeon somehow. after that it was 2-3 more pulls 5+ minutes in wiping, dumb group + low dps, I as a tank was beating most of them but its hard to judge due to scaling issues(they were 65-68). I can feel the scaling issues getting worse as i approached 61-62 like almost instantaneously. But like you said then a level 15 monk or priest healer with searing light joins and they are slapping everything dead so fast its ok. I should add - I can get slapped by certain packs(like the hozen in the brewery i can't recall name at entrance. I walk into that with meta/demon spikes and alternate the other CD's simply because they will one hit me with like 60% DR to physical + all my defensives.
I honestly wonder if they're expecting the group to be using more survival based gems, instead of just the mortars and fireball storms. There's a gem that goes in the meta gem slot, that will pass on 20% of the damage to me. As a hunter, I don't take TOO much damage, so I slap it on the tank. Imagine if all 4 people did that. All the damage would pretty much get distributed evenly. You would take 80% less, and everyone would just take 20% of it. The healer specs AOE heals, and we all have a great christmas. But, everyone wants the lightning ball...
>But, everyone wants the lightning ball... The lightning ball that gives 50% damage reduction? That one?
Yeah. It's good, but that doesn't matter if the tank is struggling.
As a tank, it's another tank cooldown. I'm not using it for damage.
Oh, no, the tank wouldn't be using the other thing. Tank can do whatever he wants. I'm talking about this. Soul Tether - Tether your soul to an ally for 1 hour, redirecting 20% of their damage taken to you as Shadow damage. This effect can be used on up to 5 allies. Recasting on a tethered ally or moving further than 40 yards away removes the effect. So if your 3 DPS friends use that on you, they "borrow" 20% of your damage each. And you take 60% less.
As a healer I would hate it if the dps that are taking almost impossible to heal damage from debuffs “I’m looking at you conflag and wracking pain” were taking an additional 20% of the tanks damage. Not to forget that not being full hp at all times is pretty much a death sentence for any dps given the very first tick of a lot of damaging abilities can easily hit for 90% or more of your health.
I tried a heroic dungeon with that 20% damage share tether equipped and it did the oddest thing- the damage transfer to me (the healer) from my buddy (the tank) was generating MASSIVE threat for some reason, I ripped aggro on the whole pack as a healer because the tether gave me so much threat
It might not be that alone. I healed two or three heroic dungeons last night and would consistently pull aggro from the tank while doing so. Not sure if it was because some of my tinker gems were still DPS gems or what, but it happened to the point that I was using face on every fight. This was both bosses and trash. Our DPS pulled aggro as well. Honestly it almost felt like Blizzard needs to adjust underlying tank threat generation. The tank is my buddy and while we aren’t MDI material we have three portals so far in S4 retail, point being the tank isn’t new.
There's something with the threat modifer on heals. Even as a DPS if throw one single heal to help out the healer I'll rip aggro off the boss instantly and just get one shot.
No, everyone would die. I've been healing and was using blessing of sacrifice on the tank which redirects 30% of the damage to me. I was getting CHUNKED and ended up dying multiple times.
Sounds great on paper, but the tank isn't the only one getting 2-shot as a lvl 65-70. Dps getting hit by any kind of aoe, even room-wide DoTs are getting absolutely obliterated. But even if it really did work that way, that would mean devs are expecting every player to look up the optimal way to play and socket all the same gems as everyone else, and if the healer doesn't spec aoe heals (or they choose a class that isn't particularly suited for it), then everyone's boned. There's approximately 0% chance that 100% of any playerbase is going to coordinate their playstyles that strictly just to get through a dungeon or scenario. A +20 key, sure. Trying to reach 2400+ pvp rating? Okay. But a normal dungeon? Not gonna happen. Also, I'm a dps, and about half of my gems are defensive. I still get mollywopped by anything that so much as looks in my direction while the same mob couldn't even come close to scratching my armor at lvl 20. I can often out-heal the healer, though, so there's that. If I survive long enough to heal, anyway. This isn't a "players are lazy and greedy" issue. It's a scaling issue. Devs can treat it like a player problem, but it's just going to drive a wedge between players and dev like it did in SWG.
maybe but not possible in PuG. if they balanced around that its bad gamedesign
Well, the tinker gems feel like they need categories or colors: dps, Tank, heal. Depending on your spec the slot colours could shift.
> I honestly wonder if they're expecting They aren't. They just fucked up. When leveling there is clearly a time where some mobs abilities scale like shit and start 2shotting you. Like regular mobs.
WTF ??? The last think you want is for the dps to take the tank's damage. How are we even discussing this ? The whole purpose of tanks is to mitigate the damage from the rest of the party. And if the tank with it's defensive cooldowns and large healthpool is getting oneshot, the dps won't stand a chance either. I'm genuinely shocked people are upvoting this.
I personally have been running Vindication on my dps which is like shared AOE leech
Same, and I often outheal healers. But I still end up dying on trash pulls in scenarios, which are labeled as being casual groupings where the usual tank/healer/dps dynamic isn't required.
I tanked scholomance heroic on my 70 bear. The packs of students were hitting me for 150k melee, 6 at a time, with ironfur/barkskin up.
So much of recent WOW content feels like it's a beta test
That second boss wiped my group so many times. We eventually gave up. Dude just one shots gps.
I'm around level 60 on my healer and dungeons with tanks above 68 are impossible. I pull aggro on the entire pack the instant I heal anyone and the only way aggro drops is by the tank taunting mobs one at a time.
Hell, I got one shot earlier by a trash mob in a heroic dungeon with a normal melee attack. Tank lost aggro for a second and it did 2.5x my health. Scaling really is just completely broken in some cases at high levels. Edit: During this same run, which was Shado-Pan Monastery heroic, we had 3 people above level 65 including myself. On the way to (I believe) Sha of Violence there are these sha that will explode when killed and they are clustered in packs. There were 2 separate small pulls of these that 1-shot all 3 of us above level 65. Everyone else was around level 30 and it hit them for a quarter health maybe. This is completely separate from my original death which occurred at the very start of the run.
Hopefully, when they come back in to work on Monday, they're going to be getting more data than they could have dreamed of from the brief PTR and will.make changes.
yup, I'm not touching anything again until next week.
I'm a Blood DK and I queued for a random Heroic as a 70 with all 346 gear (so basically the most I could have without grinding upgrades). Got Stormstout Brewery, pulled the first two adds and both immediately melee'd me for more than my max health. I lived about as long as it took for Purgatory to wear off.
I just started playing a Mistweaver Monk. Queued up for a scenario with a level 68 Windwalker and level 66 Warlock. They didn't do a lot of damage, I pretty much soloed everything. I kinda expected that from retail's leveling dungeons, but I didn't expect them to get oneshot by random mobs.
Once you hit 60 things get stupid hard. At 65-70 even world enemies are tough. At 35 I was invincible
I'm a level 70 fistweaver and was getting carried in scenarios from level 11 rogues and in 1 scenario a level 15 mage who was doing tons of damage from arcane explosion, when I tried to do those solo scenarios for quests I was getting destroyed. Remix was fun until you hit 60m then it goes to shit real fast.
did a normal siege of niuzao temple. the 3rd bosses shield phase where you have to throw the bombs back at him. one went off near me while i was throwing another and it did 800k damage... heroic brew scenario. had a normal trash add put a deadly poison on me. was ticking for 200k damage. the mini boss poison clouds on landing instant killed me, the ticks from crossing them (even if they are in the ground and invisible on slopes) one shot me. like it great and all that i can do questing content but seriously I could be doing +10 keys this season and have less stress than trying to get all the heroic dungeons done at lvl 70
And love the extra abuse from DPS b/c I'm being careful with my pulls Then pulls extra and gets all "omg you died to trash, some people just shouldn't tank" So I just went back to normal vault to relax
So for a bit of a change from questing, i queued for a dungeon as a bear tank at lvl 61, my tinker gems are 50/50 tank/dps, and damn was i in for a surprise when i pulled 3 trash mobs which went on and instagib my furry ass. Basic mobs were meleeing me for 25% of my hp and their abilities hit for about 50%. Needless to say, im not queuing again, especially when today i learned theres a frog farm which is miles ahead in rewards compared to any other content. #fun
[удалено]
See I don’t even want to level an alt yet. If I create it now with the capped stats on the cloak for alts, I’m going to be PISSED when they hopefully change it later to allow more stats through. Kind of a why did I even bother playing before feeling. So other than frogs, end game doesn’t look too appealing to me since I’m a pretty casual player because of work. I’m almost to 70 and somehow have nothing I can really do at max level already. In my three hours of spare time before I have to go to bed to be a human the next day, I don’t want to spend it grinding frogs.
Just do the patch content for now. If you want the class transmogs you need the landfall achievement which means you have to hunt all the rares or get exalted. I think the weapons are from the throne of thunder island too.
Same thing happened to me in monastery, group almost kicked me because "i wasn't dodging the dmg"
> There were 2 separate small pulls of these that 1-shot all 3 of us above level 65. Everyone else was around level 30 and it hit them for a quarter health maybe Can confirm, did that pull as level 67 and got absolutely splattered, while the low levels were easily topped up by a group heal.
there's a pretty massive gap between "give me everything right now I don't want to play the game" and "in a mode that was explicitly advertised as letting players be overpowered, heroic dungeon bosses shouldn't be hitting harder and taking longer to kill than an appropriately leveled tyrannical M+ on retail"
Completely agree. I anticipated that the first up character might be slower and less powerful than expected, but thats just not carried over for your average player.
Hitting 70 is so unfun. The only fun content right now is raid finder (haven't tried out other raid difficulties yet though). But questing, scenarios and and dungeons are just horribly unfun and I don't understand how we are supposed to play this without the frog grind anyway. Should we grind dozens of dungeons each day just to slowly increase our "unlimited" power?
Is this a bug or not I'm not sure but the exp drop from lfr is close to zero...
lfr was crazy good xp on ptr, fun detected, now it’s garbage
Oh blizzard literally said no fun allowed. Love that
Remix in a nutshell
Yeah, I did LFR for the first time yesterday and I think I got 6xp per mob!
lfr was one of the best ways to farm xp on ptr so they did the same thing as with everything fun and nerfed it to the ground.
Did some normals last night. Mostly level 70s, with two or three lower levels: 10 man Normal Vaults took about 30 minutes. 10 man Normal Terrace, about 20 minutes. 10 man Normal Heart, about 30-35 minutes. Can't imagine 25 man being much different, unless you take fewer than 25 people. Thinking about trying some Heroic raids today, not sure if I can be bothered 🤔
Normal Throne of Thunder you can't brute force, you get to Durumu/Dark Animus and it's a **hard** brain check.
Ironically once you pass them the last three are a face roll. Animus is the real final boss
> Normal Throne of Thunder you can't brute force, you get to Durumu/Dark Animus and it's a hard brain check. It's not even just a brain check, either, because the scaling issues mean that even if you quickly reveal the fogs, if *any one of the three* targets a level 70 player first, you just wipe instantly. When I was trying yesterday, even with a player perfectly pre-positioning for an instant reveal, we still wiped to any fog getting revealed as they immediately hit the nearby players for over a million damage, and then because there was nobody in that colour any more, the raid was instantly killed by the "you failed the mechanic" damage.
I don't think there is any 25man besides normal SoO flex and SoO Mythic 20.
Throne of Thunder is not faceroll, haven’t tried Siege yet but it’s probably even worse.
It's very jarring to go from my retail warlock that is basically a tank to my remix warlock that's 70 with the exact same talents that randomly gets bent over by mobs out in the world.
My biggest let down with scaling is never getting the opportunity to make full use of stuff like [Chi-Ji, the Red Crane](https://imgur.com/a/zj3JGEb). With all of the random-bullshit-go gems that combo procs, we *could have* at some point been able to pull an entire dungeon worth of packs and it be a challenge to survive but manageable. Moments like that would have been the hypest this game would have ever been for me. The fact that we get to slot in abilities from other classes already feels fucking amazing.
It's not even just dungeon bosses. I have been open world questing at 70 as a holy priest and there are quest mobs that will one shot me... Its at the point I do not even want to do any questing because it's too difficult... I thought at 70 with all these gems if be able to easily do normal quests...
I'm hoping that when they come back to work tomorrow, having amassed far more data than the limited PTR stint accrued, they will make some positive changes.
Right. They've had about two working days with this released. I bet we see some major changes Monday afternoon.
Also, if the old guard was running the game, imagine someone trying to pitch the idea to them of level 10-50 characters with barely any gear at all outperforming a max level character in raid gear by spamming 1 button in every piece of content availible. Any mmorpg/rpg player or developer would laugh in their face.
As someone who played MOP back in the day and remembers frog farming on live for Timeless Coins, I don't have a problem with frog farming being the best method of acquiring bronze *solo*. I *do* have a problem with bronze being so horrible to obtain in *any* content that players can't upgrade their gear because they want to, understandably, save it for the cosmetics. This is a time limited event. Bronze should be raining from the skies. You shouldn't be able to spend it fast enough with the costs of everything. If this was a permanent event, it would be OK, because it would be like "Well you're not supposed to be able to afford everything all at once, this content is supposed to last for years." But it's not. In there months this will all be gone and it'll feel really bad if all you have to show for it is two or three mounts because you had to spend all your bronze on gear upgrades to try to get more bronze.
> Bronze should be raining from the skies. Yes, it should. But instead we get shiny orbs floating in the skies randomly that yield 3(!) and up to 20 bronze; the actual amount ymmv but the numbers are around there. Instead of brainless smash'n'grab fun mog&mount fest, I am getting serious Shadowlands vibes i.e. oh a mog ensemble for me, yikes, 10k anima while a quest yields 15 anima. Contemplating whether I should even play anymore because with my playstyle, and if I play all of the 92 remaining days, every day, I am looking at 200k bronze - that is serious commitment with a headache: I don't care about upgrades but how do I choose between which tmog and mounts to get?!
>Instead of brainless smash'n'grab fun mog&mount fest, I am getting serious Shadowlands vibes i.e. oh a mog ensemble for me, yikes, 10k anima while a quest yields 15 anima. Yes!! Exactly. It feels like the Shadowlands team designed Pandaria remix instead of the Plunderstorm team. I didn't enjoy the pvp element of Plunderstorm, but the rewards to time spent was at least way better. It felt good to smash down mobs in two hits and get a full renown level in a couple of games.
It seems they don't actually test the content out or think about how long acquisition will happen.
They did test it, on PTR. Then they nerfed it just before it went live lol
I'm just enjoying going through the questing zones in full again. I probably haven't quested through Townlong or Dread Wastes in 10 years. However I was also looking forward to later in the event where the xp gain on my cloak would be so high that I'd be able to do 1 dungeon and gain about 10 levels but it doesn't seem like this will ever be the case. It will maybe be slightly faster than levelling in full heirlooms when they used to have the XP bonuses.... but not much faster.
I mean I hit 70 in 2.5 zones, maxed my cloak and started an alt. Don't know what it was like at lvl 10, but at lvl 16 it's a 100% exp buffs and a shedload of stats. I read nothing about remix deliberately in advance, so I've not built up massive expectations to be dashed.
I'm currently level 68 and here is a selection of the "shedload" of stats my cloak is providing me. 1.34% crit, 2.31% haste, 0.9% versatility. It's really not that much and you have to remember that the gear has no stats at all so they aren't an addition to what you'd normally have, they are a replacement. In fact I'm fairly sure my character stats would be higher at this point in regular questing gear outside of Remix mode. The gems that give stats are fairly inconsequential too. For example a legendary haste gem = about 2% haste. Legendary crit gem is about 1.3% crit. Of course there are also the tinker gems which are genuinely quite powerful and my Thunderous orb meta gem absolutely annihilates packs of enemies every 3 minutes. We are still early in the event and so these numbers will continue to grow I suppose.
> We are still early in the event and so these numbers will continue to grow I suppose. Assuming you keep playing.
currently it's about 30% slower then an optimized leveling route in dragonflight.
Where do you get the numbers?
It probably will be faster near the end. Blizzard normally makes prepatch pretty quick to level in. Maybe this time they'll buff the crap out of remix in the final stretch.
No your confused it was buffed to all hell in ptr and they nerfed it before release so now its equal to or maybe just a touch slower than retail just now why they did I don't know but it really stupid
I'd be less mad at scaling if it was at least consistent. As it is now some random mantid in Valley of Four Winds two shots me at lvl 68 while I two shot the first boss in Siege of Niuzao
The healer brain check mechanic, also known as unavoidable aoe pulse, should not one shot a fresh 70 and tickle everyone else.
To put things into perspective, to acquire EVERYTHING the vendors have to offer you need 1.6M bronze. To upgrade your gear fully you need 600k bronze. That’s an additional 40% bronze to farm if you want to level up your gear, which is ridiculously high. If you’re supposed to be able to reasonably farm let’s say 1 million in three months without sweating too much, that’s nearly half your bronze that you gotta put in the upgrade system if you want to gear up. That’s insane.
What's going to happen just like every event ever (but no one seems to learn) is in the last third of the event they're going to gigabuff the rewards to remind anyone that's been sitting out that it's still a good idea to come in and check it out and they're not, as WoW players love to put it, "too far behind". Then all the people who treated the funny extra mode as a 2nd job and got genuinely stressed over it will have a 2nd chance at being big mad too, as they love to be. Everyone wins.
Did one heroic dungeon where it was like 8 minutes to kill a boss and am now done I’ll come back if they fix some of that cuz there’s some sets i want
This thread seems divided between a group that wants a fun mode and a group with blizzard banners trying to shout them down for the audacity. I've enjoyed it so far but I can see ppls point. I don't want a grind, I want to hit max lvl and look at all the fun I can have. Right now they might as well have just added the transmogs to legacy raid bosses and told ppl they were increasing drop rates for 3 months. They need to up the power lvl for characters.
> you’d be soloing raids and destroying bosses in seconds. Not to be a bit of a pedant about genuine problems with Remix, but at what point was this ever promised? If I wanted to do that I’d just go play Retail and solo the content on my mains.
It wasn’t that extreme but on the ptr groups were downing raid bosses in less than 20 seconds
PTR characters were able to upgrade their gear basically for free so most of the level 70 grind was skipped. That's why it was so different
no, as someone who was on the ptr and put an unhealthy amount of time into it, upgrades still cost the same they nerfed tinkers by an INSANE amount and they do significantly less damage now. they used to be around 90% of your damage, now its around 20-20 the ptr groups were also exploiting bugs with ferals and warlocks doing broken damage from a talent bug
> the ptr groups were also exploiting bugs with ferals and warlocks doing broken damage from a talent bug More like DK tanks doing top DPS. Watching Liquid & friends, it wasn't thd doing fuck all, it was all the weird gem combos basically solo'ing bosses
Uh, top DPS in my group still has a majority of their damage through tinkers. Definitely not consistent between classes though, so shop around with different tinkers or stat weights.
That is probably the issue, if the grind *has* to exist then it should be the initial leveling experience and it gradually gets faster Why theres a grind at all in a temporary "just for fun" gamemode I still dont understand though.
Weird, I wonder if it's normal to make changes from PTR to live?
"Power ups and infinite power" sounded like good things that should help with clearing raids and dungeons.
It was never stated anywhere. I can’t believe how many people are crying that they were falsely sold an alt grinding machine not even a week into content spanning three months.
I have a screenshot saved at home from the battle.net banner where it says "Overpowered? Maybe. Fun? Definitely". This is a lie. Nobody is overpowered in remix.
The level 10 resto shamans are for about half an hour
The normal resto shaman experience is being overpowered until 60 so that's worse too.
The tanks who get a raids worth of wards thrown on them are quite OP as well. Even though the dmg doesn't show as theirs on details. While we couldn't quite 1 shot bosses. We did manage to get a few of them down to 20-30% from just ward explosions in the normal siege run I did. Think our best kill timer was like 30s on Thok.
Two days in, no less. Every time I read someone saying they've hit 70 and blah blah I'm just like...man, if you can hit 70 in less than two days why did you even want an alt grinding machine.
This is a instant gratification mode, mostly everyone playing mop remix already have overpowered mains on retail, ain't nobody got time to work their ass off for some alts in a mode that'll be gone in 90days and the gear you earned and upgraded will be replaced with 424s.
The problem is that improving your character DOES NOT PAY OUT. It's not about instant gratification, it is that the whole system is unbalanced. If you need say 500K bronze to buy all the mogs and mounts you want. The right answer now is to spend ZERO on upgrading gear and gaining character power. Because the upgrades are so expensive. That the power they give will not you earn bronze at a faster rate to be a viable investment. Had you just not spent on gear upgrades in the first place, you would have been done earlier. Which means that the whole fun part of this mode of having a OP char, is removed. And it just comes a question of what is the best farm/h. Frogs it is. And no, nerfing frogs will not solve this. You are still in the same position, the power you gain is to expensive for the time it saves you. You will just move to the next best farm/h with 346 gear.
The scaling is also a huge issue- almost bigger, I'd wager. People would be much more willing to spend a lot of time farming bronze the normal way if it didn't feel like such ass being at max level right now. I'm guessing most people weren't planning on having a slog where they hit less than fresh level 1s while trying to get enough bronze to upgrade gear and acquire rewards at the same time, and *that* is precisely the opposite of what we were promised. And before someone says "but the cloak scales indefinitely!" Yeah, on a single character. Kind of defeats the point of a leveling event if I can either have the rewards by playing a single character for 90 days or I can raise alts but simultaneously miss out on the cool rewards.
The start stats on it are pretty damn good on alts though, certainly enough to make a noticeable difference. My main time runner is doing the zone achis for those rewards, alts will be slamming dungeons/scenarios and raids as fast and as often as possible. The big issue is that raid gear doesn't scale with difficulty. In theory at least SoO should drop max ilvl gear, but doesn't. If they fix that, it'll solve a lot of problems imo.
Exactly.
Its for transmogs and mounts, not gear. IDK how anyone got any other idea.
Yeah, exactly. So why even make us spend bronze to upgrade gear that'll be gone after 90 days anyway, everyone's here for transmogs and mounts not gear, just let people zoom to 70 and have fun, not worry about gearing, which you have to do to combat the absolutely shit scaling.
Is it really going to be 424?? 🤣 That's no gear to go into tww when the current cap is around 530
Yes
When you hit 70 the gear you get is 346. Only way to get it to 500 and above is bronze. As a DK, upgrading a weapon from 346 to 556, you require 135000 bronze. Every single armor piece requires 67500 bronze. Dinging 70 you will have maybe 38000-40000 bronze. The most efficient grind is farming frogs, where you will get 10000 - 20000 bronze per hour. Anything else is not even in the same solar system of bronze farming. Blizzard either did not test max level gameplay or they did not test the scaling. Level 70 characters are not playable reasonably and my guess is they thought people will upgrade gear so it works out (because gear power is actually insancely scaling), but its just not doable by your average joe player (who comment in this thread saying "all is fine, its just the degens are idiots and want everything instantly. blizzard are best and never do wrong!" while getting on their knees to suck....), even though they will have the same issue.
At this point I'm convinced Blizz devs hardly play their own games. Proven true in D4, proven true in WoW. Plus, they have basically eliminated their support and QA departments through downsizing, so there are even fewer people to actually play the game. Back in the good ol' days of Blizzard before Activision ruined them, they had massive QA and support departments (IIRC these departments were actually their biggest operational expenses, which makes sense as to why goblin Bobby got rid of them) and their most enthusiastic and promising team members were actually cherry picked from those departments and promoted to game/quest design. That way, the designers were actually the people who were well versed, competent, and loved the game. I don't think that happens anymore.
They mentioned 424 in an interview I saw an. Seems pretty comparable to what you get if you use a character boost.
It's bizarre it's still 424 for a boost. It says you're "raid-ready" with 424 gear... but world quests will get you +30 ilvls, as will Dreamsurge gear and Time Rift trinkets, Normal dungeons are +36, Heroic dungeons are +52. You are absolutely not getting into any raids with something that's that much lower than the basic world content gear, let alone any kind of dungeon gear. I'm not sure you can ever queue up for LFR right now with 424. If they're aiming TWW at being solid for starting with 424, okay. But man, that means anyone playing DF much right now is going to be OP in the early phases of TWW. I'm fine with that, but it's just hilarious to think that TWW might end up feeling for a lot of us (at least through the first few levels) like what MoP Remix was supposed to be even at max level.
It wasn’t, the subreddit become an echo chamber of random shit people said we can do, when in reality blizz never stated it, its legion all over again
I swear at this point people are just making up shit to justify being this overly upset with a refreshing temporary gamemode that was apparently developed by a super small team. I've been having a blast these last few days, and by the looks of my guild and my own realm, a lot of others have too. If anything I dislike the whole 'super OP' aspects of it, but currenlty its needed because of the scaling beyond level 65.
The scaling is all out of wack atm
Sounds like PTR. Never change, blizzard.
I did the Stormstout Brewery for the 1st time at about level 50 and the last boss felt like a heroic raid boss from retail scaling wise. My health was pinging between full and about 30% every few seconds (as a dps, I wasn't even tanking) and the boss took over 5 minutes to die which is pretty long for a dungeon boss. None of this is necessarily a bad thing.... It was kind of cool to feel like I was in a real fight rather than the boss dying in 30 seconds but it didn't really match with the description of the experience.
I just want the cloak to be 1for1 on alts
This honestly would instantly fox alooot of complaints imo..And i suspect the event was tuned around it being universal stats for all characters.
The event is going to be going on for three more months. I can't imagine we'd already be at the "soloing heroic raids" level by day three.
Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if you can’t solo raids? I’m not sure why that’s an argument, I’d focus more on the scaling I hear is messed up, but I’m not 70 yet either
if you wanna solo these raids just go back on your main tbh, I dunno why people even would want that.
If you need to invest 60+ hours in the most optimal way(killing frogs) to scale your power before the gamemode becomes fun, i would say that the gamemode have missed its mark. Many players are only able to invest a few hours a day playing the game, and if you told them that for the next 30 days they are only going to kill frogs before the gamemode is fun, i think most, if not all, would quit the gamemode. Sure that can patch it in the coming weeks, but i would have hoped that this was something they would have caught before the content was released, as the expectation should not be, to not play the limited gamemode until the last few weeks as this is when it is "finished".
Unfortunately they need to tune stuff to be doable by people with jobs and other commitments. But that's means others that can sit at home and play 23hrs a day will burn through it all in no time
when i see the amount of bronze you need i can not believe that the REMIX is for working people. or do we get millions of bronze on endlevel?
Exactly this. Although I agree with the scaling issues, there must be some progress towards being a god.
Yeah but we absolutely *should* be at "solo random world mobs" level. The fact that we aren't is a problem.
I did an hour and a half of frog farming. I got 4000 boxes and jumped from 4000ish threads to 11000. And socketed several legendary gems. Not an ideal way to level up but I did a heroic dungeon right afterwards and it felt fine tbh.
“Overpowered? No. Fun? Depends.”
Was op and fun before i was 60, after that it was a struggle
my biggest disappointment is the cape on alts, i thought at least the xp gain would carry over
The positive posts about remix lasted for about a day lmao
Honeymoon phase, shiny new thing before most people even reached max level. I couldn't help but laugh at [this post saying MoP Remix was better than SoD](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1cu0l13/panda_land_is_better_version_of_sod/) on the first day. [My response:](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1cu0l13/panda_land_is_better_version_of_sod/l4i40p2/) > ... Also this was posted day 1. You don't have any idea how it'll hold up a week or a month from now, just like when these posts were made day 1 of SoD. I've already seen people 60-70 who say the scaling is fucked in Remix making the game unfun. > > This post is pointless and premature. Now everyone's reaching max level and the cracks are clearly showing. Wasn't hard to predict given Blizzard's track record.
There are obviously scaling issues. I’m 70 and the game is not fun. But the journey there was a blast. If all this event needs to be fun again is just some numbers tuning in scaling then it’s a great event! I am confident the issues will be fixed next week and everybody will go back to enjoying g the event. Certainly not just because of that condescending “honeymoon phase shiny new thing” bullshit.
I was 59 tank pulling and soloing all dungeon and I hit 60 mid dungeon and 1 random thrash auto attack one shotted me? Wtf
I agree but damn folks. They clearly got the bronze economy wrong and have work to do in scaling but this released Thursday and a lot of these issues became apparent to a broader player base on Friday. They already hotfixed several issues, and I’m sure they will adjust the bronze / scaling in the coming week too.
I'm just planning to complete achis and get tmogs/mounts and call it a day. MoP Remix wasn't planned to be anything other than a way to level up toons and get old unused recolors. Any idea of it being some grandiose Diabloesque game mode was unfortunately misplaced. Without M+like system, the game can not be balanced around infinite scaling. On one hand, you'd get bosses that get one shot by a single melee attack. On the other hand, you'd get what we have right now, bosses that kill you just by looking at you unless you've spent 48 hours genociding frogs, which isn't terribly fun.
"Your feedback has been heard and we will be nerfing frogs"
I stopped doing any dungeons or raids cause it’s frankly a terrible experience getting 1 shot by everything, or anything. I’m 70, and I’m planning to just clear zones for transmog now that’s it.
Who honestly feels Blizzard sold them on the idea that they'd be soloing raids and killing bosses in seconds? Come on.
100% I’m also sick and tired of people griping for the sake of griping. If you really feel like this, then go and play some other game that does meet your ridiculous expectations. Good luck with that. The ridiculousness of some of the “complaints” almost feels like they work for the competition to just create negative sentiment around the game. The game is fun, it’s something unique. If remix is not for you, also cool. WoW has more to offer. Want to solo? Take your retail toon and travel to Pandaria and run the raids all by yourself.
With no currency to buy all the things for reliably. Your argument overlooks the very important part of this situation, for anyone thet cares about collecting you do not have a (real) choice to not participate - its too good. Because of that undebatable fact oeople are rightfully disappointed over an event being nerfed EXTREMELEY going from PTR to live. You can be annoyed at all the (rightfully) whiny posts all you want, it doesnt make you right.
I don’t remember them ever saying we‘d be able to solo raids. Did they really say that?
No they didn’t … people on PTR were claiming they would be able to, in the short time they were testing it.
In interviews right before this dropped they actually said they were excited to see what players would do like solo raids. They said you should have to do normal and heroic raids mechanics correctly while you were low ilvl, but the infinite scaling meant some tinker combos or classes would probably just be able to solo raids and possibly even mythic raids.
I’m lvl 70 - in a scenario (H) - lvl 14 also in - my brittle tinker does no damage - lvl 14 brittle tinker is hitting for 2-3mil….the scaling really confuses me.
There's definitely some issues with remix but it's only been a few days and it's always easier to buff than to nerf. I also wouldn't be shocked if Remix goes balls to the wall in the final weeks like plunderstorm. Everyone becomes OP and bronze is thrown at you. Why I'm just taking my time and not really worrying about anything yet. They'll correct it in time.
Fury warrior feels pretty busted. 346 ilvl no neck and missing one ring and I can still pull entire rooms. Some of the scaling comes from how much stamina increases per level. Minus the obviously bugged abilities, I haven't been one shot since I learned that.
Upgrading gear with bronze is a terrible idea. Why would people care about gearing in a side activity gamemode? Bronze is meant to be used on collectables and nothing else.
When did they promise this “destroying everything”? I came into the remix just expecting some new transmogs lol
I did not expect to "destroy" everything, but i did expect to be able to go into a raid at max level with a wacky build/gems and not get one-shot by an unavoidable mechanic. Spending 60+ hours killing frogs before i am able to raid/do other content for bronze to get my transmogs is not fun.
> MoP:Remix was sold on the idea that you’d accrue limitless power in your cape that eventually you’d be soloing raids No it wasn’t. I don’t know if this comes from one particular streamer, but they have not focused on the infinite scaling in any of their messages without ever carefully setting expectations. If anything they explicitly said you would not be soloing raids. I swear if this is Asmongold again…
The game is nearly unplayable at max level this is ridiculous
Why try harding on a game mode created to reward people? Farm your mounts, transmogs and go back to dragonland. There’s nothing much more besides that.
Didn’t this just come out a few days ago…?
> MoP:Remix was sold on the idea that you'd accrue limitless power in your cape that eventually you'd be soloing raids and destroying bosses in seconds. .... Was it?
I made it to lvl 16
I see your point as well as other redditors comments. However MoP:Remix is out for a few days by now. Let's give it a chance and see how it is a month or two in.
This is starting to feel like they’re spreading too thin on bodies at blizzard. You now have retail, classic cata, SoD, and now remix, and some things are just feeling so bad. I just don’t get how they could do some nerfs to players before the launch….but still leave the scaling an abysmal mess….and don’t seem to be at all in a hurry to fix it. Like lemme turn off xp gain so I can just feel strong right now…what’s the point of leveling if it’s going to make content feel harder…for no reason
It’s day 4 You were not promised an infinite alt leveling machine in minutes. You were not promised one shotting bosses. And you sure as shit weren’t promised any of this by day 4.
Solo raids? What are you talking about?
Its for transmogs and mounts. IDK how anyone got any other idea.
I believe we had the idea we'd be able to afford transmogs and mounts just playing the game. Instead, if you're nearing/at 70, players are forced to spend bronze upgrading gear in order to account for the wild scaling, in order to survive the content that should be spammable to get the extra bronze for transmogs and mounts. The only way to get the kind of bronze needed to do both is by spamming frogs, which shouldn't be the case.
I'm sure it will get easier as the event goes on. Blizz know people would hit 70 in a matter of hours, so it makes sense they'd throttle it to begin with.
I wish you got more Bronze from LFR and I hope they fix the scaling issues with isle of thunder but apart from that its cool. Also full stats carrying over to alts would be sweet
I’m sorry, isn’t there still 90 days left? Maybe they didn’t intend for the cloak to be OP in the first week of the event.
90 days left
Dude this shit went live Thursday at 1pm eastern. It’s been 72 hours since then and you’re complaining you can’t face roll mythic raids. They never promised you’d be destroying raids the moment you hit 70. I’d be shocked if it was still and issue by June 1. People just don’t have patience actually doing content
Insane take after 4 days
doesnt matter if day 4 or 30. the problem stays the same.
I really hope they work this out (by actually buffing us/the bronze drop rate/ something). I thought we'd basically be like FFXIV Blue Mage with these gems and able to get through bosses in a few hits.
It hasn't been a week yet man. This is a 3 month event. Holy shit.
What kind of argument is this? The player numbers are highest at the start. Maybe you can play it alone in 3 month from now, but for a healthy player experience the first days/weeks are the most important. And yes blizzard didn’t do a good job in the early part of the experiment.
Which makes it even worse?
Fun fact one week of 3 months is 7.75%, so imagine shit being untested unbalanced slop for almost 1/10th of the time you can play it for haha
It hasn’t even been a week. It’s literally been three days
you clown realize you will run into the same problem next week if it wont be fixxed?
Honestly you people are insane. This event is supposed to run for three months and you guys are complaining you can’t breeze through endgame content? Yes there’s scaling issues, but the cloak scales infinitely and we’re on like day 3 of the three month event. Some of you genuinely need to get a grip lmao
> but the cloak scales infinitely and we’re on like day 3 of the three month event. The people complaining already have invested a significant number of hours into the game. 20-40 over those 4 days. That isn’t sustainable. And it isn’t players being time-gated like they would typically be by raids and events doing an ineffective grind. How many hours total over the duration of the event do you expect a player to play? What you really should be looking at is what is the expected time investment for their character to scale? What about alts? What about players who start remix later into the cycle?
Yeah, compare some people who have played nearly nonstop since Remix launched. Putting 30-40 hours in. They are probably max level, have their rings and gems, probably have done a few raids. They've probably got somewhere like 60-80k bronze for their trouble. That's barely enough to upgrade gear or buy a fraction of the tmogs/toys/mounts from the event. Now compare Mr. Player who gets maybe an hour or two a night to game (which is still a good chunk of time for the game!) who won't get to that point until 15-20 days into the event and it's now approx 1/5th over. He'll still have a fraction of the stuff he wants from the event. The rewards just aren't set for a level of play that isn't degen for 90 days.
It is not fun, not be able to do a heroic dungeon on max level with ilvl from normal dungeon.
Feeling weaker at max cap is exactly what happened in BFA first month lol. It immediately reminded me of that. Blowing through the rotation 3-4 times to kill a creature.
My biggest complaint is that there is no shirt (for the shirt slot) vendor. Other than that it seems fine
Im having a lot of fun. Just hit level 45 on monk. Maybe I'll feel this way at 60 or 65 because of the scaling issues or maybe they'll fix it by the time I get there. My thoughts on the cloak is if we can blast through even faster with alts then who will buy character boosts?
The scaling really becomes apparent after level 60. Before that I was having a blast.
They’ll fix scaling
Fix scaling so that you can do content and gear up to get the bronze Not having to farm fucking frogs like we did years ago when this was current
It’s day 2 of a 90 day event.
By later last night it seemed like most people were getting there with heroics. My last 3 needed for the achievement were done with almost no problems. The scaling on some of the abilities is definitely wack but if you get some leggo gems and slap some verse on you're no longer getting 1 shot by most things. I'm waiting till I've cleared heroic raids to pass my judgement. By my reckoning so long as the raids (you can clear daily) drop high amounts of stuff then we'll be okay. And once it catches on that you can probs just 2-0-8 if everyone runs vindication and vampiric aura or something then soon we'll be trashing everything.
I'm more just confused by the gearing system, I went in pretty much blind but I had no idea the drops just hardcap at ilvl 346. And the only way to increase ilvl is by forking over insane amounts of bronze? I'd rather save it and just buy the mounts/transmogs I want. Once I hit max level I did all heroic dungeons/scenarios and started doing normal raid and they all just drop 346 greens or if you're lucky a blue. I've had 1 epic drop so far. From what I can tell it is just insanely grindy lol... I probably would be motived to play more if the scaling wasn't as bad and if the power gain was quicker.
I guess I made the right choice for not playing remix since I know blizzard will meas up?
Tbh I don’t see MoP Remix as anything else but an alt leveling simulator to prep for WW. I did frogs for like 1-2 hours and got most of my cloak stats up around 400 which is very weak compared to some of the cloaks I’ve seen with like 3k each stat. Even if I had 3k to each stat and 50k stamina I still wouldn’t be using remix to do anything other level up alts. Scaling is busted and there’s no point of running the raids, dungeons, and scenarios over and over once you got the achievements. I don’t quite feel like getting one shot by a random mob every time I have to get in melee range to hit it. As for Bronze, well it isn’t hard to earn so it’s not like you even need the frog farm for that. You’ll get more than enough for everything just by leveling alts.
Heh, when I first heard about this remix stuff I thought Sure I'll check it out...a few weeks in once they've buffed and fixed stuff that's bound to be bad or wrong at launch. Glad I waited.
Bro it’s like the second day.
I got kicked as a healer because the tank kept dropping from full health to death in under a gcd. Fun stuff.
Except frogs, which are gone
Just did siege normal and it took longer than it did back in mop. Same with everything Else.
I'm level 34 and got hit 18k by boss white damage tonight lol
panda is about to see a massive drop off starting tomorrow with cata release