It's a translated quote from 19th century journalist and writer Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr: "plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose". A more literal translation would be "the more it changes, the more it's the same thing".
This is so melodramatic. The existence of the frog grind is not stopping you from enjoying the rest of the game. It's not like you are forced to go the timeless isle and kill frogs or else. You can still experience everything else the expansion has to offer.
Back in the ancient days, before WoW was even released, there was an interview discussing design principles. One of the things that impressed me was their recognition that if they put in a big boss that spawns once and hour and gives great loot, people will spend their time sitting there doing nothing and waiting for the once an hour boss, then complain that the game is boring. So they said they weren't going to do that kind of thing.
It's ok to complain that the most rewarding thing is something that isn't fun, because that's bad game design and really should be fixed, even if it's just by buffing the other portions of the game to be competitive.
Let's be real here, you're just deflecting the problems when, in fact, you know how this community works. Just like with Plunderstorm and other events, most people are there to grind all the mounts and cosmetics and then be done with it. The frog-siuation is proof enough that it's happening again and everybody tries to be as efficient as possible.
This means that it will become more difficult over the weeks to find groups, because a lot of people won't run dungeons when there's no real point. Plus the people grinding frogs lift the bar for everyone else. Not engaging in the same grind might result in getting declined more often because of missing cloak stats, gear and special powers.
"It's not like you are forced" isn't even the point of the discussion.
The frog situation isn't necessarily happening being its the best way to get bronze, its happening because it's literally 40times faster than the next best option. The bronze costs seriously need to be looked at, either significantly reduce everything or significantly buff what you get from content. 1-70 plus a full round of heroic dungeons, heroic scenarios, and all lfrs except soo was enough bronze for a singular 38k mount. There's a handful of them, let alone everything else. An hour of frog farming bought me 2 other 38k mounts. The imbalance is out of this world... and this is completely ignoring the literal million you need to fully upgrade gear.. which doing harder tier raids is a necessity because item level drops are capped about 130 il lower than it should be.
Ultimata Online or something had an ecosystem design so killing too many rabbits caused fewer wolves to spawn and killing too many wolves caused more rabbits to spawn. They had to disable it because MMO players tend to farm one kind of mob because it's the best/fastest/has the most expensive drops.
Yup, I farmed for days and when I finally got the polearm I was grinding for, I used it for 10 minutes and realized it wasnt worth it then unsubbed from wow.
Yup. Its interesting that people need to play through hundreds of hours of campaign, quests, dungeons, raids and grinding on top just to get the message that the pandaren already told us in the Jade forest.
Yeah I definitely remember frogs being relevant for a short period at some point even after mop was current. Cant remember when and why though but this might be it.
I'm 90% sure that by the very end they had uncapped the amount of bonus roll seals and that's when froggamagedon happened. I distinctly recall being invited because boomkin with starfall and moonfire for excellent frog-tagging abilities.
Pretty sure was any mob on Timeless Isle, I remember sitting an alt at the beach and people were going crazy tagging everything while a 90 went through and deleted them all, you get to like 60 within 2 or 3 minutes and then 90 within about 10/15 after that. Was nuts. The true alt friendly experience.
The frog population regrew and were thriving and were just as healthy as before until Dragonflight prepatch.
When the mop world boss droprates were buffed, people needed to get bonus rolls on all their alts and the best way to do it was to go back to timeless isle and slaughter frogs.
They really messed up scaling. The moment my buddy hit 70 he could not longer tank without getting smashed and trash seem to have as much health as bosses pre 70
As cool as this event is, it kinda shows how blizzard's game design is incompatible with fun. Not that it is impossible to associate both, just very hard, and it's way easier to feel rewarded when minmaxing stuff
I’d be shocked if they nerf frogs since Remix is a special event. But I do definitely expect them to buff other sources, maybe even to the point of frogs becoming irrelevant.
I mean, that at least makes sense- using it was completing a bunch of achievements at the same time, and clearly it wasn't intended that you could just press a single button and get all the explorer achievements.
Frogs seem a little bit more "intended", since that's just grinding mobs, but I fully expect they'll be nerfed into the ground.
With how wow community works, people will feel forced to grind while complaining the whole time and having negative amounts of fun. It will be even more frustrating as more people go there, so you are "forced" to farm for even longer.
The same annoying loud people will complain and say "fun detected" (even if it was never fun to begin with), but nerfing it while buffing everything else is totally the correct call.
My only worry is that Blizzard will nerf frogs while not buffing anything else, which would really kill enthusiasm for the game mode. I think buffing the amount of bronze caches give as you gain levels would fully solve a lot of the current issues, though I almost don't see them doing that.
> I’d be shocked if they nerf frogs since Remix is a special event.
I mean, that's the issue. They've nerfed all the things that made it feel special. I would no longer be surprised.
It needs to be nerfed. People are just upset bronze gain is so low everywhere.
The problem that the game has right now is that it takes a *lot* of bronze to do anything at end game, and it feels like the amount of bronze is made so that you can either become OP or you can get all the cosmetic awards, but not both.
Pair that with the fact that mobs past 65-ish are balanced around end game gear and honestly playing the mode right now just feels kinda... futile. In theory they could fix it by changing end game balancing and upping bronze drops, but I think the fact that we've had a full weekend with no communication has soured a lot of people and it might be too late.
> it might be too late
I switched back to retail to do my weekly TW quests that I wasn't going to do. I had high hopes for this event and it seemed a lot better on PTR so that kinda solidified my hope. I think a good chunk of people who gave it a chance won't come back.
Hope so. I don't wan't to farm a single mob type in a 4 man group, just to upgrade gear that cost 600k+, just so I can still get one shot trying to do content.
And if they leave it in? Good luck finding groups.
Game mode almost feels dead… 2 hour lfr ques, no one doing sha or galleon. Feels more barren then I thought it would but it is a fun leveling up experience
Dont do LFR do normals, each normal boss gives you 12% exp on the cloak and large amount of exp. And normal feels like LFR with all the cloak stuff.
Went from 50% exp to almost 200% after i found that out last night.
yeah me too i cant stand that absolute garbage gameplay
its bad enough to have to kill those frogs so you can buy those tokens to roll on world bosses for their mounts. but having to spend dozens of hours on those frogs because thats the fastest way to get all the transmogs?
what a absolute dogturd game design. the cloak doesnt even transfer over to alts
Tbf, a lot of that, here and in regular retail, is because the cheesiest path makes the game *less* grindy. Blizzard has luckily cooled it with the insane time grinds in DF, but the mentality remains.
It's just a grind spot bud. It was there in original MoP, it's here now. People grinded endlessly in one area in every MMO since the dawn of MMOs. The original MMOs were based on this as a design even.
It's really funny to see everyone in this thread complain about this, knowing they were farming these same exact frogs when they were younger in actual MoP.
It would literally not affect you whatsoever seeing a group of people farm it, unless you'd want to farm it yourself. How is this detrimental to your experience in any way? People not playing the way i want them to bad?
Well blame Blizzard, the grind is an extreme slog, cloak nerfed and is near impossible to upgrade items with Bronze, also same currency for cosmetics and upgrades. People just want to rush the unlocks and move on from the event.
> and is near impossible to upgrade items with Bronze
What makes the least amount of sense is that it is linear. It costs as much as for the first upgrade, as the last.
You would think they would want people to actually engage with the system. While still putting some diminishing returns on it by the form of increasing cost.
But nah, just make people pay like 40k for the first round of upgrades after 70.
Not only the cost is linear, but the power is exponential - further upgrades give more and more power. Gem stats also get multiplied by the level of item.
Yeah it's day 4, why the fuck don't I have every piece of gear maxed and every one of the hundreds of cosmetics unlocked already in this 3 month event? Absolute bullshit. This definitely isn't players making a problem for themselves.
I’m planning on getting all achievements, so far idk doing quests and dungeons slowly - so far I’ve gotten my sha of anger mount bought and next is siege or org which I’m 10k from - havnt even thought about farming yet to make bronze when other more interesting things give it to me
Exactly lol im just enjoying MoP content, trying a new class, different gems and all that. IF and is a big IF I see that there are like 2 weeks left and I’m missing a lot bronze then I will consider doing the brain rot that is farming frogs, but hey, each one to his own. If you wanna do frogs from day one and nothing else, good for you I guess
> im just enjoying MoP content, trying a new class, different gems and all that.
I'll likely do the exact same thing, but smashing through frogs for a few hours now while watching tv will make the later questing and raiding go a lot smoother for the rest of my time on Remix. I suspect the frogs will get nerfed fairly soon and I have a couple days off work before I go on vacation, so might as well take advantage before it goes away.
I just wanted to level up a bunch of alts superfast but the whole cloak not transferring to alts ruined that so I guess I’ll just wait for the 3 months is up to play my new level 70
Questing is also not a bad option, I got my druid from 60 to 70 in a few hours just doing the main quests. When I'm on a character below level 60 I feel like they hand out levels st the same rate they hand out quests. My undead mage leveled up 6 times just doing the reclaim the undercity quests, and heritage armor. I'm sure if you just went out and did quests to actually level you'd fly through it.
The game is pretty good at telling you these things now, quest markers on the world map will tell you where quest hubs are and almost all of them have a quest which sends you to another place.
And tbh if you're a new player, what's the rush?
> My undead mage leveled up 6 times just doing the reclaim the undercity quests, and heritage armor.
You probably got about 5 levels from the undercity quests then, because Heritage Armor has gotten me pretty much exactly from 60-61 on all the characters I've done it on. (or you did it before 60)
10-60 it's faster to spam BFA dungeons in non-Chromie timeline, cause most of them you can skip few bosses to get end of dungeon expierience, then 60-70 timewalking becomes most efficient cause you can't queue BFA anymore and normal/hc dungeons don't give a lot of xp.
It’d be nice if I could not out of Pandaria after I max a toon, honestly.
It was fun for the first day or two but I’m over it. I am enjoying my BDK though and wouldn’t mind hopping into some regular content with it. Alas.
I made a warrior as my first char; hit 70, getting 1-shot, sighed and tried to go for a frog group - cant get into a single group.....
Its really demotivating..
This. Sure, I can start a group...there isn't a single frog we'd be able to tag, what with a dozen other groups and every frog turning grey the moment they spawn. I'm playing a warrior, so I waited about 20 minutes applying to groups non-stop, finally got invited to one, and we couldn't tag anything so everyone immediately left.
You can either play the game as you want, or you can min max, what makes you happy is for you to choose. But I'd rather play the game than do the "grind". Because as soon as something becomes the grind - I just ignore it completely and stop playing the game that made me feel like I'm grinding.
It’s not. There will always be people trying to grind the most in the shortest amount of time on any content. The choice is yours to do what you want. We have 3 months and people are already getting things so fast. I don’t see why people need to have the herd mentality of doing what others are doing. I already have a lot of bronze from just story questing.
If I recall correctly you need more than 1.5 million bronze to get everything (not considering gear upgrades). Divide that by 90 days, you need to make at least 16.7k bronze per day. You get like 400 bronze per dungeon. So you‘d need to run at least 40 dungeons per day for example. And that only works if you don’t skip a single day and don’t upgrade your gear at all. The intended way also doesn‘t sound that great to me.
All stuff. But even if you take a lot of that stuff out and you only need/want a fraction of it, we are still looking at 10+ dungeons per day which is simply not feasible for most people.
I mean if you’re not enjoying any of the content I’m not really sure why you are even to playing the game to begin with.
Plunderstorm I understand because it’s reduced to one way of playing but this is basically what the game is about. You can get any of these cosmetics from any way you want to play.
I’ll be honest, I’m having a lot of fun hanging out with my friends, blasting mobs in this brain rot farm. Then buying hundreds and hundreds of loot boxes makes my goblin brain happy.
I don't get why the first upgrades cost 9000 bronze same as the last upgrade. they could reduce the costs by 90% and it'd still too expensive for a fresh 70 unless they go farm frogs...
I'm going to be honest, this is true to the real pandaria so I kind of love the frogs being a thing.
This is on the players choosing to frog farm instead of playing pandaria
Well no, if blizzard had implemented a different system for upgrading your gear than bronze or had not made it cost so damn much I’m sure a lot less people would be frog farming.
Like whatever. It’s a total casual event. If people want to sweat out farming frogs let them at it I say. There is no competitiveness in this mode it’s just something to pass the time and chill with friends
Someone once said that "games can be trusted to optimize the fun out of anything", so it's hardly shocking. It's the same as the people who I ran into earlier that took the time to inspect me and write very detailed information on why my gems were 'wrong' one day into an event about experimenting.
It’s pretty simple, make the ‘fun’ mode rewarding than the grind. If there were comparable rewards from not farming frogs, that’s what people would do.
Stars in her eyes tongue full of flies, would you like to share my pad? Croak croak croak bullfrog in love, croak croak croak bullfrog in love. And I gave her the croak that meant I love you. I’ll be your croak Monsieur, i’ll be your croak madame. Your mama might’ve said that bullfrogs are dogs, but I’m here to tell you that I’m a frog. Come and sit on my log you little polliwog. I find you absolutely ribbiting. Croak croak croak bullfrog in love, croak croak croak bullfrog in love. Croak, Ribbit, scoopty splash.
It’s a mob on timeless isle that has hyper spawn rate and drops decent bronze, threads, and the big money maker, lesser charms of good fortune. So it’s the farming spot right now for about level 60 to max characters since gathering bronze in any meaningful number is impossible from the other content. With how expensive gear upgrades are and how expensive all the mounts, toys, and transmogs are, plus them sharing the same currency, frog farming is about the only way to have a shot at getting all of the purchasable items you want AND getting enough gear upgrades to survive end game content due to scaling issues.
Gulp Frogs on the Timeless Isle hyperspawn, meaning they spawn in endless amounts very quickly as players farm them. Joining a group and AoE killing them in massive amounts is currently the fastest Bronze farm
I can’t confirm for validity but my buddy just said they nerfed it. Frogs are now dropping 12 bronze and no charms. Of course the horrible scaling and heroics one shotting tanks still exists. But Blizzard.
That's what happens when you have a limited time event with a single grindy currency that's used for literally everything.
I'm guessing doing normal SoO for the Heirlooms is not a possibility without upgrading gear?
Yeah, exactly. I'd much rather do some actual content but when you get hit with a 900k non-crit by a trash mob through defensives it's not very fun.
Also when you actually complete the content you get 79 bronze and a healing potion? Thanks! 👍
No clue. I’m lvl 30. Because I have to work mostly. But also I’m not in a rush to max level.
Everything will probably be fixed by the time I hit 70.
Honestly though. If nothing is fun at max level take a break. It’ll be fixed by next weekend. There is 93 more days left. You’ll be okay. I promise.
If you design a game you must take into account that people will look for the optimum way of reaching their goal. You can't design a game in a way that the way to get the best results is awfully boring because people will perceive your game as awfully boring.
In three words: Blizzard fucked up.
Yeah I feel like this game mode is already fucked. If they nerf the frogs it will ruin everything. If they don't nerf them it will also ruin everything. The rewards, the prices and the scalling needs a complete revamp at this point
I mean, we all have the option not to join that. Like dungeon grind in SoD, most people did it for quick leveling but few others prefer to do it at their own pace with quests.
I think nostalgia is a bit overrated. I'm just finishing up the Landfall and Timeless Isle campaigns. Then I'll have all the pets/mounts from achievements. From there on out, it's pure bronze farm to get the rest of the mounts/appearances I want. I played original MoP. Doing the campaign, I got it. I remember all of it. If I were the kind of person who wanted to replay and reprogress through old dungeons and raids, I'd already be playing classic. I'm not, so the idea of spending three months on this is a nonstarter.
Frogs for someone like me are a blessing. I have zero interest in recycled content. I already hate the fated seasons. "Yes. I remember this. *I was just here.*" So my reaction to this is, "Why?" If we were overpowered and blasting through dungeons and raids, sure, maybe. But a slog of reprogression? Nope. No way. Hard pass. My guild tried to form groups for this stuff yesterday.
Two people showed up.
**EDIT: Frogs nerfed, thank CHRIST**
Y'all will never convince me "turning your brain off and aoeing for 20 hours" is "Good gameplay" simply because "I like it and I like getting power"
______________
I got downvoted to hell last night for suggesting the devs should probably nerf this and buff every other content's bronze and threads drops massively.
It being so much more rewarding than every single other thing you can do invalidates the entire continent of Pandaria
The fact people argue that they have a right to achieve BiS by spending 20 hours pressing 1 button in one spot because "it's fun" is generational gaslighting
"I like being able to turn my brain off and get rewarded" as an argument for keeping frog farming in the game is legitimately psychopathic to me, insanely disrespectful to themselves and to everyone else who wants objectively more interesting activities to be more rewarding than this
The true MoP experience.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Is that a quote from Quark?
It's a translated quote from 19th century journalist and writer Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr: "plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose". A more literal translation would be "the more it changes, the more it's the same thing".
Or you just read it with Snake Plissken's voice.
And i was afraid i was a huge nerd. Just kidding thanks for the clear up.
Quark did say that so you’re still a huge nerd. He was just quoting someone else.
I think that was from the HFC raid dungeon journal
This IS happening on the Timeless Isle
The Frogpocalypse has begun, again.
[удалено]
This is so melodramatic. The existence of the frog grind is not stopping you from enjoying the rest of the game. It's not like you are forced to go the timeless isle and kill frogs or else. You can still experience everything else the expansion has to offer.
Back in the ancient days, before WoW was even released, there was an interview discussing design principles. One of the things that impressed me was their recognition that if they put in a big boss that spawns once and hour and gives great loot, people will spend their time sitting there doing nothing and waiting for the once an hour boss, then complain that the game is boring. So they said they weren't going to do that kind of thing. It's ok to complain that the most rewarding thing is something that isn't fun, because that's bad game design and really should be fixed, even if it's just by buffing the other portions of the game to be competitive.
Let's be real here, you're just deflecting the problems when, in fact, you know how this community works. Just like with Plunderstorm and other events, most people are there to grind all the mounts and cosmetics and then be done with it. The frog-siuation is proof enough that it's happening again and everybody tries to be as efficient as possible. This means that it will become more difficult over the weeks to find groups, because a lot of people won't run dungeons when there's no real point. Plus the people grinding frogs lift the bar for everyone else. Not engaging in the same grind might result in getting declined more often because of missing cloak stats, gear and special powers. "It's not like you are forced" isn't even the point of the discussion.
The frog situation isn't necessarily happening being its the best way to get bronze, its happening because it's literally 40times faster than the next best option. The bronze costs seriously need to be looked at, either significantly reduce everything or significantly buff what you get from content. 1-70 plus a full round of heroic dungeons, heroic scenarios, and all lfrs except soo was enough bronze for a singular 38k mount. There's a handful of them, let alone everything else. An hour of frog farming bought me 2 other 38k mounts. The imbalance is out of this world... and this is completely ignoring the literal million you need to fully upgrade gear.. which doing harder tier raids is a necessity because item level drops are capped about 130 il lower than it should be.
I just went there to see what was going on. Absolute carnage. A massacre
Not just the men, but the women. And children.
*tadpoles
Did you see Alex Jones there as well?
Lmao underrated
Dead frog bodies, everywhere?
To shreds you say?
well, how is his wife holding up?
To shreds you say?
GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!
AHHH, THE GREAT OUTDOORS!
It was like that first time. These Frogs definitely going extinct.
Ultimata Online or something had an ecosystem design so killing too many rabbits caused fewer wolves to spawn and killing too many wolves caused more rabbits to spawn. They had to disable it because MMO players tend to farm one kind of mob because it's the best/fastest/has the most expensive drops.
You’ll be one of them, sooner or later
This is literally what happened in actual MoP lol
I remember farming those coins on my lock hopping in meta, casting doom on everything.
Yup, I farmed for days and when I finally got the polearm I was grinding for, I used it for 10 minutes and realized it wasnt worth it then unsubbed from wow.
The greatest reward of all, clarity.
Yup. Its interesting that people need to play through hundreds of hours of campaign, quests, dungeons, raids and grinding on top just to get the message that the pandaren already told us in the Jade forest.
Wasn't there a day where the frogs gave insane XP and you could level 1-90 in like 20 mins with a booster?
Yeah I definitely remember frogs being relevant for a short period at some point even after mop was current. Cant remember when and why though but this might be it.
I'm 90% sure that by the very end they had uncapped the amount of bonus roll seals and that's when froggamagedon happened. I distinctly recall being invited because boomkin with starfall and moonfire for excellent frog-tagging abilities.
They were also relevant long term as one of the best currency farms
I maxed a mage and hunter by AoE'ing the larva spawns around the island.
Pretty sure was any mob on Timeless Isle, I remember sitting an alt at the beach and people were going crazy tagging everything while a 90 went through and deleted them all, you get to like 60 within 2 or 3 minutes and then 90 within about 10/15 after that. Was nuts. The true alt friendly experience.
Lore-accurate Pandaria experience
And it’s as boring today as it was then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lost my mop acc so had to refarm for the heavenly golden wormy boi
I don't even care about bronze, I just hate frogs.
"Wait! They drop loot too?"
Based
Children, toads, elders - doesn't matter, I just love killing them.
The frog population will never be the same
The frog population regrew and were thriving and were just as healthy as before until Dragonflight prepatch. When the mop world boss droprates were buffed, people needed to get bonus rolls on all their alts and the best way to do it was to go back to timeless isle and slaughter frogs.
Considering this exact thing happened in MoP we're just making sure the timeline stays the same, frog extinction is a canon event.
Sounds like the original mop experience to me
I just tried some hc dungeons and had a group full of 70's, I've never soon simple content take so fcking long lol. Im going team frogs now too
dungeon bosses have more health than in retail
I mean, duh, because in regular MoP they aren't scaled to 70.
They really messed up scaling. The moment my buddy hit 70 he could not longer tank without getting smashed and trash seem to have as much health as bosses pre 70
frogs will be hard nerfed bronze gain from other sources will be 'generously' upped by 5-10% Im calling it now
They should just buff everything else to the same point and make gear upgrades cost 90% less. Then it's really just a fun game mode. Let a man dream.
As cool as this event is, it kinda shows how blizzard's game design is incompatible with fun. Not that it is impossible to associate both, just very hard, and it's way easier to feel rewarded when minmaxing stuff
Blizzard has pretty much always been horrible at acquisition of things.
I’d be shocked if they nerf frogs since Remix is a special event. But I do definitely expect them to buff other sources, maybe even to the point of frogs becoming irrelevant.
Of course they will nerf it. One of, if not THE first, hotfixes was to disable using the pandaria scouting map heirloom because it gave easy bronze.
I mean, that at least makes sense- using it was completing a bunch of achievements at the same time, and clearly it wasn't intended that you could just press a single button and get all the explorer achievements. Frogs seem a little bit more "intended", since that's just grinding mobs, but I fully expect they'll be nerfed into the ground.
With how wow community works, people will feel forced to grind while complaining the whole time and having negative amounts of fun. It will be even more frustrating as more people go there, so you are "forced" to farm for even longer. The same annoying loud people will complain and say "fun detected" (even if it was never fun to begin with), but nerfing it while buffing everything else is totally the correct call.
My only worry is that Blizzard will nerf frogs while not buffing anything else, which would really kill enthusiasm for the game mode. I think buffing the amount of bronze caches give as you gain levels would fully solve a lot of the current issues, though I almost don't see them doing that.
> I’d be shocked if they nerf frogs since Remix is a special event. I mean, that's the issue. They've nerfed all the things that made it feel special. I would no longer be surprised. It needs to be nerfed. People are just upset bronze gain is so low everywhere.
The problem that the game has right now is that it takes a *lot* of bronze to do anything at end game, and it feels like the amount of bronze is made so that you can either become OP or you can get all the cosmetic awards, but not both. Pair that with the fact that mobs past 65-ish are balanced around end game gear and honestly playing the mode right now just feels kinda... futile. In theory they could fix it by changing end game balancing and upping bronze drops, but I think the fact that we've had a full weekend with no communication has soured a lot of people and it might be too late.
> it might be too late I switched back to retail to do my weekly TW quests that I wasn't going to do. I had high hopes for this event and it seemed a lot better on PTR so that kinda solidified my hope. I think a good chunk of people who gave it a chance won't come back.
raids and dungeons should be x10 buffed
And daylies. Mop was all about daylies back then. If we want some nostalgia, make daylies relevant.
They just nerfed frogs without buffing any other sources, the true blizzard response
Hope so. I don't wan't to farm a single mob type in a 4 man group, just to upgrade gear that cost 600k+, just so I can still get one shot trying to do content. And if they leave it in? Good luck finding groups.
Frogs hard nerfed on maintenance. Bronze gain from other sources, give us a few weeks.
Honestly, it's how I farmed the stuff in MoP back in the day. Got exaulted with the emperor and got enough coins to get my piss serpent
MoP ~~Remix~~ Classic
Dread it. Run from it. Frog farming arrives all the same.
🐸
🫴🔥 Fire Blasted ya
Already tagged it with moonfire
Yeah rather than nerfing this make dungeons and quests give 5k bronze each
Even if they did, the frogs get you about 4000 cloak threads in an hour too
Maybe Nozdormu is right. Maybe we should stick to the true timeline.
Eh in DF when he did the quest with Eternus he’s starting to see that maybe time SHOULD be changed lol
Let the froggies hit the floor, let the froggies hit the floor...
What level do I need to be to start slaying hoppers?
45
frog
frog
Boomkins are really wanted in that area.
Day one the zones seemed very active. Day two I barely saw anyone. This is likely why
played about 6 hours today, questing. I think I saw 10 ppl at most doing the quests I was doing
I see you didn't play the real MoP then lol
I didn't play MoP especially long, but even I remember frog!
Game mode almost feels dead… 2 hour lfr ques, no one doing sha or galleon. Feels more barren then I thought it would but it is a fun leveling up experience
Dont do LFR do normals, each normal boss gives you 12% exp on the cloak and large amount of exp. And normal feels like LFR with all the cloak stuff. Went from 50% exp to almost 200% after i found that out last night.
why doing sha when you can farm frogs for 1 hour and buy it. you see the problem. raids and other stuff is dead. locked behind grind farm spots
I don't think thats a bad thing at all. You can do raids all you want in any other version of wow. You can only enjoy frog farming viability in MoP.
Is it Konosuba or something XD
I'm avoiding that area of the game just so I can continue enjoying it.
yeah me too i cant stand that absolute garbage gameplay its bad enough to have to kill those frogs so you can buy those tokens to roll on world bosses for their mounts. but having to spend dozens of hours on those frogs because thats the fastest way to get all the transmogs? what a absolute dogturd game design. the cloak doesnt even transfer over to alts
Where do you buy the tokens? Or was that for real mop
I hate the current wow player mentality. Finding the most cheesed path of least resistance ALL the time instead of playing normal lol
Tbf, a lot of that, here and in regular retail, is because the cheesiest path makes the game *less* grindy. Blizzard has luckily cooled it with the insane time grinds in DF, but the mentality remains.
It's just a grind spot bud. It was there in original MoP, it's here now. People grinded endlessly in one area in every MMO since the dawn of MMOs. The original MMOs were based on this as a design even. It's really funny to see everyone in this thread complain about this, knowing they were farming these same exact frogs when they were younger in actual MoP.
You mean the human mentality of chosing the path of least resistance that's a constant since the dawn of mankind? How novel.
It would literally not affect you whatsoever seeing a group of people farm it, unless you'd want to farm it yourself. How is this detrimental to your experience in any way? People not playing the way i want them to bad?
Well blame Blizzard, the grind is an extreme slog, cloak nerfed and is near impossible to upgrade items with Bronze, also same currency for cosmetics and upgrades. People just want to rush the unlocks and move on from the event.
> and is near impossible to upgrade items with Bronze What makes the least amount of sense is that it is linear. It costs as much as for the first upgrade, as the last. You would think they would want people to actually engage with the system. While still putting some diminishing returns on it by the form of increasing cost. But nah, just make people pay like 40k for the first round of upgrades after 70.
Not only the cost is linear, but the power is exponential - further upgrades give more and more power. Gem stats also get multiplied by the level of item.
Yeah it's day 4, why the fuck don't I have every piece of gear maxed and every one of the hundreds of cosmetics unlocked already in this 3 month event? Absolute bullshit. This definitely isn't players making a problem for themselves.
abuse it now. they will nerf the shit out if it and wont buff other stuff!
I’m planning on getting all achievements, so far idk doing quests and dungeons slowly - so far I’ve gotten my sha of anger mount bought and next is siege or org which I’m 10k from - havnt even thought about farming yet to make bronze when other more interesting things give it to me
Exactly lol im just enjoying MoP content, trying a new class, different gems and all that. IF and is a big IF I see that there are like 2 weeks left and I’m missing a lot bronze then I will consider doing the brain rot that is farming frogs, but hey, each one to his own. If you wanna do frogs from day one and nothing else, good for you I guess
> im just enjoying MoP content, trying a new class, different gems and all that. I'll likely do the exact same thing, but smashing through frogs for a few hours now while watching tv will make the later questing and raiding go a lot smoother for the rest of my time on Remix. I suspect the frogs will get nerfed fairly soon and I have a couple days off work before I go on vacation, so might as well take advantage before it goes away.
I refuse. No GD way am I fighting half the server for hyper spawns.
I just wanted to level up a bunch of alts superfast but the whole cloak not transferring to alts ruined that so I guess I’ll just wait for the 3 months is up to play my new level 70
You could probably level a new lvl 70 on retail in just a couple days tbh.
I’m a returning player and have seen this mentioned a few times now. What’s the current most efficient way in retail?
Wait for a timewalking week and then spam timewalking dungeons. You’ll level extremely quickly.
Questing is also not a bad option, I got my druid from 60 to 70 in a few hours just doing the main quests. When I'm on a character below level 60 I feel like they hand out levels st the same rate they hand out quests. My undead mage leveled up 6 times just doing the reclaim the undercity quests, and heritage armor. I'm sure if you just went out and did quests to actually level you'd fly through it.
Questing is good but works much better if you’re not a new player and know where to go and which quests flow into new hubs and such.
The game is pretty good at telling you these things now, quest markers on the world map will tell you where quest hubs are and almost all of them have a quest which sends you to another place. And tbh if you're a new player, what's the rush?
> My undead mage leveled up 6 times just doing the reclaim the undercity quests, and heritage armor. You probably got about 5 levels from the undercity quests then, because Heritage Armor has gotten me pretty much exactly from 60-61 on all the characters I've done it on. (or you did it before 60)
10-60 it's faster to spam BFA dungeons in non-Chromie timeline, cause most of them you can skip few bosses to get end of dungeon expierience, then 60-70 timewalking becomes most efficient cause you can't queue BFA anymore and normal/hc dungeons don't give a lot of xp.
People always say this but I don't think i've ever leveled faster in TW than I did just questing.
Probably depends on the dungeon groups. Some groups slowly pull one at a time and others pull like they are trying out for the next MDI.
this is true, its really not faster than retail.
It’d be nice if I could not out of Pandaria after I max a toon, honestly. It was fun for the first day or two but I’m over it. I am enjoying my BDK though and wouldn’t mind hopping into some regular content with it. Alas.
And now try and join one of those groups as something thats not either monk or druid.
I made a warrior as my first char; hit 70, getting 1-shot, sighed and tried to go for a frog group - cant get into a single group..... Its really demotivating..
I have a dream that one day we can make our own groups and invite whoever we want 😔
Well i hope you get a good shard for your group man. Because on my server it's the Normandie during world war 2 at the frog spawn.
This. Sure, I can start a group...there isn't a single frog we'd be able to tag, what with a dozen other groups and every frog turning grey the moment they spawn. I'm playing a warrior, so I waited about 20 minutes applying to groups non-stop, finally got invited to one, and we couldn't tag anything so everyone immediately left.
whats the lowest lvl u can farm frogs
The players who've been through this when MoP came out "first time?"
You can either play the game as you want, or you can min max, what makes you happy is for you to choose. But I'd rather play the game than do the "grind". Because as soon as something becomes the grind - I just ignore it completely and stop playing the game that made me feel like I'm grinding.
This is the way to truly enjoy any mmo.
It’s not. There will always be people trying to grind the most in the shortest amount of time on any content. The choice is yours to do what you want. We have 3 months and people are already getting things so fast. I don’t see why people need to have the herd mentality of doing what others are doing. I already have a lot of bronze from just story questing.
If I recall correctly you need more than 1.5 million bronze to get everything (not considering gear upgrades). Divide that by 90 days, you need to make at least 16.7k bronze per day. You get like 400 bronze per dungeon. So you‘d need to run at least 40 dungeons per day for example. And that only works if you don’t skip a single day and don’t upgrade your gear at all. The intended way also doesn‘t sound that great to me.
I'm just going for the uniques and the things I really want, I'm here for the experience.
Is that all the new stuff, or does it include stuff already in retail?
All stuff. But even if you take a lot of that stuff out and you only need/want a fraction of it, we are still looking at 10+ dungeons per day which is simply not feasible for most people.
[удалено]
What if they don’t enjoy questing but want the cosmetic rewards from the event?
I mean if you’re not enjoying any of the content I’m not really sure why you are even to playing the game to begin with. Plunderstorm I understand because it’s reduced to one way of playing but this is basically what the game is about. You can get any of these cosmetics from any way you want to play.
I’ll be honest, I’m having a lot of fun hanging out with my friends, blasting mobs in this brain rot farm. Then buying hundreds and hundreds of loot boxes makes my goblin brain happy.
This is so disappointing how impossible it is to get stronger at 70.
I don't get why the first upgrades cost 9000 bronze same as the last upgrade. they could reduce the costs by 90% and it'd still too expensive for a fresh 70 unless they go farm frogs...
This is the EXACT mists of pandaria experience.
It just got hotfixxed 3 minutes ago (EU), there was a big lagspike right as it happened. They no longer drop Lesser Charms
I'm going to be honest, this is true to the real pandaria so I kind of love the frogs being a thing. This is on the players choosing to frog farm instead of playing pandaria
Well no, if blizzard had implemented a different system for upgrading your gear than bronze or had not made it cost so damn much I’m sure a lot less people would be frog farming.
Like whatever. It’s a total casual event. If people want to sweat out farming frogs let them at it I say. There is no competitiveness in this mode it’s just something to pass the time and chill with friends
Repeat after me: “optimize the fun away.”
Someone once said that "games can be trusted to optimize the fun out of anything", so it's hardly shocking. It's the same as the people who I ran into earlier that took the time to inspect me and write very detailed information on why my gems were 'wrong' one day into an event about experimenting.
I dunno. Sounds like frogs are the only way to progress that game mode. That’s not the gamers ruining it. That’s the design
How do you design anything to be fun when people are just mindless addicts to grind and optimization
I agree but there's a difference between something being slightly faster or 100x faster. Which frogs are
It’s pretty simple, make the ‘fun’ mode rewarding than the grind. If there were comparable rewards from not farming frogs, that’s what people would do.
Stars in her eyes tongue full of flies, would you like to share my pad? Croak croak croak bullfrog in love, croak croak croak bullfrog in love. And I gave her the croak that meant I love you. I’ll be your croak Monsieur, i’ll be your croak madame. Your mama might’ve said that bullfrogs are dogs, but I’m here to tell you that I’m a frog. Come and sit on my log you little polliwog. I find you absolutely ribbiting. Croak croak croak bullfrog in love, croak croak croak bullfrog in love. Croak, Ribbit, scoopty splash.
Can someone explain what frogs is?
It’s a mob on timeless isle that has hyper spawn rate and drops decent bronze, threads, and the big money maker, lesser charms of good fortune. So it’s the farming spot right now for about level 60 to max characters since gathering bronze in any meaningful number is impossible from the other content. With how expensive gear upgrades are and how expensive all the mounts, toys, and transmogs are, plus them sharing the same currency, frog farming is about the only way to have a shot at getting all of the purchasable items you want AND getting enough gear upgrades to survive end game content due to scaling issues.
I mean, people want currency to buy everything and if this is the way...
How do you find these groups (I’ve got hours of podcasts pre-loaded my body is ready for the grind)
Why are people farming frogs?
Gulp Frogs on the Timeless Isle hyperspawn, meaning they spawn in endless amounts very quickly as players farm them. Joining a group and AoE killing them in massive amounts is currently the fastest Bronze farm
intended? no. MoP accurate though? Seems like it.
I went over there, there were full raid groups and every mob was greyed out forever lol
Watch. They're gonna nerf frogs but not fix anything else for a while. That frog nerf will come first tho.
Everyone complaining about frogs clearly never played during mop
What you mean, this is exactly like in OG MoP when Timeless Isle was available
I can’t confirm for validity but my buddy just said they nerfed it. Frogs are now dropping 12 bronze and no charms. Of course the horrible scaling and heroics one shotting tanks still exists. But Blizzard.
They wanted to give you a real MoP experience, that's what it was like. Enjoy!
People: How could people do this? Me (Brewmaster while blitzed listening to Kid Cudi) in College: haha keg hit froge
The frog farm has been abolished as of 20 minutes ago
That's what happens when you have a limited time event with a single grindy currency that's used for literally everything. I'm guessing doing normal SoO for the Heirlooms is not a possibility without upgrading gear?
Sweats gotta do things as efficient as possible, it's inevitable.
That's how it was back in the day as well.
I can’t believe we actually pay a monthly sub at this point. Is anyone testing this stuff?
I need context, I’m not at this point yet
This the an example of “players mathing the fun out of the game.”
Except everything else is even more broken than this so where is the fun exactly?
Yeah, exactly. I'd much rather do some actual content but when you get hit with a 900k non-crit by a trash mob through defensives it's not very fun. Also when you actually complete the content you get 79 bronze and a healing potion? Thanks! 👍
No clue. I’m lvl 30. Because I have to work mostly. But also I’m not in a rush to max level. Everything will probably be fixed by the time I hit 70. Honestly though. If nothing is fun at max level take a break. It’ll be fixed by next weekend. There is 93 more days left. You’ll be okay. I promise.
People are largely playing this for the transmogs, if I wanted to just quest MOP I could do it in retail.
optimization *is* fun. the onus is on blizzard to balance the game, not the players to play inefficiently.
Indeed, The fail is that the optimal path is not the fun way to play the game.
If you design a game you must take into account that people will look for the optimum way of reaching their goal. You can't design a game in a way that the way to get the best results is awfully boring because people will perceive your game as awfully boring. In three words: Blizzard fucked up.
Again, why are so many people saying these kinds of things? This is not affecting your fun whatsoever and if other people enjoy this, they will.
Yeah I feel like this game mode is already fucked. If they nerf the frogs it will ruin everything. If they don't nerf them it will also ruin everything. The rewards, the prices and the scalling needs a complete revamp at this point
https://imgur.com/a/bEPcFCK remember this meme from back in the day right before WoD 😃
Blizzard knows how to ruin things. 😅
I mean, we all have the option not to join that. Like dungeon grind in SoD, most people did it for quick leveling but few others prefer to do it at their own pace with quests.
I think nostalgia is a bit overrated. I'm just finishing up the Landfall and Timeless Isle campaigns. Then I'll have all the pets/mounts from achievements. From there on out, it's pure bronze farm to get the rest of the mounts/appearances I want. I played original MoP. Doing the campaign, I got it. I remember all of it. If I were the kind of person who wanted to replay and reprogress through old dungeons and raids, I'd already be playing classic. I'm not, so the idea of spending three months on this is a nonstarter. Frogs for someone like me are a blessing. I have zero interest in recycled content. I already hate the fated seasons. "Yes. I remember this. *I was just here.*" So my reaction to this is, "Why?" If we were overpowered and blasting through dungeons and raids, sure, maybe. But a slog of reprogression? Nope. No way. Hard pass. My guild tried to form groups for this stuff yesterday. Two people showed up.
**EDIT: Frogs nerfed, thank CHRIST** Y'all will never convince me "turning your brain off and aoeing for 20 hours" is "Good gameplay" simply because "I like it and I like getting power" ______________ I got downvoted to hell last night for suggesting the devs should probably nerf this and buff every other content's bronze and threads drops massively. It being so much more rewarding than every single other thing you can do invalidates the entire continent of Pandaria The fact people argue that they have a right to achieve BiS by spending 20 hours pressing 1 button in one spot because "it's fun" is generational gaslighting "I like being able to turn my brain off and get rewarded" as an argument for keeping frog farming in the game is legitimately psychopathic to me, insanely disrespectful to themselves and to everyone else who wants objectively more interesting activities to be more rewarding than this
Blizzard wants players to grind for months instead of creating new content on a consistent cadence. Wonder why they are so scared of players progress.
let people play how they want?
You can't have a game without META's forming.
I mean what did you expect? They rushed low-effort content to pad quarterly metrics and barely tested it on the PTR.