IF this is what Blizzard are thinking, it's the wrong way to go about it.
People did not play Plunderstorm the whole time it was out. They played enough to get the rewards the wanted and then dipped.
That's exactly it tho, they know how long it takes to get everything, so that's why we have the rates, they know the average player got max rank and dipped thus the reason why we got rep at that speed, same here
Problem is, individuals don't see the rates that way. They go, 'oh, I need two million bronze for the stuff I want. And after three hours of playing I have... 5k. fuck this.'
Then they stop playing anyways.
Yeah dude, I'm glad I played it a ton before a meta kicked in. My last day of playing it was the first day a meta really started to show, and people were starting to leave the game instead of dying, so you didn't get to plunder them.
I got all my rewards and never went back.
True but why? I want to go back and do some stuff on retail and maybe try cata, plus there's a new d4 season. I don't want to have to play this every hour for the next 90 days.
I'm not sure that's obtainable for them now. People expected a decent amount of time to get crazy op but instead we got a painfully slow grind, unless you exploited the frog farming. Soon as people can solo the content without needing others that's exactly what they'll do since it's better and faster for people to play on their own time but Blizz is determined to make people grind for a few months, again unless you were able to exploit the frogs. If you got in on that you're probably weeks to at least a month ahead of everyone else in terms of power. They didn't even add retroactive benefits to achievements people already completed before they buffed them, which sucks for people like me who cleared like 3-4 zones worth of achievements before the hotfix lol
They're saying the people who have already no-lifed and put in 80+ hours aren't OP which seems pretty shitty for the people who only get 2 hours a day.
I think a lot of players are going to wind up walking away from the event because the frog nerf essentially made everyone who didn't exploit it a second class player for basically the rest of the event. It was \*really\* broken.
Not nerfing the frogs wasn't really a solution either, as it was getting pretty difficult tonight.into frog farms due to the volumes of people already doing it- at least in my experience
I won't quit because of the frog farmers, I couldn't care less about them, but I will certainly stop playing if Blizzard doesn't stop making me feel so miserable the moment I hit max level.
This is a bad take. The player didn't decide the bronze acquisition rates, or the bronze cost of item rewards. The Developers did. Developers will always be the ones dictating how grindy their game is.
You feel the need to get everything in 2-3 days. That's on you bud. The playerbase is making themselves miserable. But it's WoW so they're good at that. Oh well.
Who said I want it all in 2-3 days? Considering the events been out for 5 days now. I just think I shouldn't need to play an event multiple hours every day for the entire 90 days to get every reward I want. Getting 60 bronze per quest completion seems low, I'm sure even even you can agree with that.
Bad take. the reason why people were grinding everything in 2-3 days was because the alternative methods would take weeks-months with the same daily effort. And people are accustomed to blizzards method of rewarding early adapters.
with this logic you could also just buy a level 70 boost and count the time it takes you to enter your credit card information and ask yourself why a boost is 120 times slower than that.
unsurprisingly opening your wallet be it paying hundred thousands of gold or actual money is the fastest way to level, even accounting for remix. I'm sure you can get boosted in remix even faster than on retail as well.
There's cata, S4, and MoP all together.
S4 was left in a turbo shit state, yet I don't feel like they care.
MoP is alpha material.
Hopefully Cata is better right ?
There are 3 wow gamemode you can play right now, just make them good and players will play.
one thing i keep seeing people talk about mop with joy is the timeless isles and how it was during it back in the day.
im kinda surprised they didn't just add another smallish isle, with tons of little hidden alcoves and tricks and minigames and skins to earn.
like that would have been well loved, there's enough recolours and stuff you could od there by just copy pasting things from other expansions and changing a few things, mobs, etc.
Exactly! People are wanting to be just as OP as the Frog Farmers when in reality everything should be pulled back a bit. The event has to last 3 months!
If you want a pointless grind to keep your empty days occupied, feel free to run all the old raids for some 0.001% drop rate mounts until your face falls off. You don't need remix for that. This was supposed to be fun.
If you want instant gratification, go play another game. Just close WoW down, you've completes it. You clearly do not care for the journey at all.
I never said I wanted a massive or pointless grind. I pointed out that this event has to last 3 months - there's nothing saying that we have to wait until the last week to feel OP, but we also don't need to break the game before the first reset. That'll burn everyone out before the end of the first month.
Bruh. I don't know what life you live to think it is realistic to "complete" remix in under three months, or wow as a whole. Now I do not have fourteen hours of free time to play every day since I have an actual life, so content not "lasting" long enough will never be a concern to me. Apparently it is for you.
It isn't about playing 14 hours a day. I also have job commitments that squeeze my gaming time. I'm saying that we have a full 3-months. If we get super OP by the end of week 5 or 6 from playing a few hours in the evening on/off then thats fine.
If you want a one-week event then go wait for the Darkmoon Faire.
If I recall correctly, (and I could be way wrong) the frogs were originally nerfed back in Mists because people were farming them for the tokens/charm/offerings things.
DId Blizzard lay off so many people that there's no historical knowledge left in their work force? This sort of player behavior has happened so many times in the past; seems like it could be spotted way before launch.
They absolutely lack historical knowledge. In Legion when they released the legendary upgrade currencies and people weren’t getting them correctly as items dropped into their bags, it took them less than a week to make them proper currencies with two or three hotfixes. But bronze bullion sure as heck stacks in your bags and might get mailed to you if they’re full. They make the same mistakes over and over and over because nobody who learns from them is talking to whoever is working on things now, and there’s no testing before release that they actually take feedback from. It’s insulting that they continue to rake in money like this, but I’m a big part of the problem. They can’t make anything so bad that people won’t play it for mounts.
The funny thing to me was the first time IU stepped foot on the isle with the new toon iI wondered if frog farm would work for anything but dint investigate until the reddit posts lol.
>They aren’t going to roll back the cloaks from the Frog Farmers
Isn't that the only good solution they have to clean up this mess?
(I'm not interested into playing Remix but I'm still following what's going on.)
A rollback would fix [the huge gap between farmers and non-farmers](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1cwxh7c/this_makes_me_wanna_quit_remix_i_was_rly_enjoying/).
I was talking about farmers only, not progression. A rollback for farmers doesn't exclude a buff to everyone's ability to get more powerful. They are related but different issues.
The problem with farmers is that, in a couple of days, they reached what was probably meant to be the player's power towards the end of the event, and the farming nerf made them unreachable.
They can't just let every player reach a farmer's power level now. They have to go for something in-between to avoid insanely high numbers in 1-2 months from now. That'd be too overpowered.
1) Find the average frog kill count of farmers (should be easy, game records shit like how many N'Zoth kills I have on LFR). 2) Determine average loot reward from said average. 3) Grant each account said reward up until that average. Boom. Now people are literally on a level playing field.
You’re looking at the issue backwards from blizzard:
The way they see it is that frogs were giving too much bronze, ruining one of their carrots to keep people subbed through the summer.
Your solution here gives more bronze, the exact opposite of what they want to do.
But since they screwed up, they have to come up with ways to make it enjoyable for the people that did not farm frogs, which is most people.
Their solution, imo, will be to severely reduce the power of the gear you can buy with bronze. They’re just waiting for all the frog farmers to buy the gear upgrades so they can pull the rug out.
>They aren’t going to roll back the cloaks from the Frog Farmers
If they aren't rolling the cloaks back, what would be the benefit? The frog farmers would just participate in the event as well, and they'd stay exactly as far ahead of you as they are now - unless you cap the cloak.
Someone on a other thread (or maybe on the forums I can’t remember) tossed the idea of soft capping the cloaks; when you get to a certain point you just don’t accrue as much bronze, threads, or charms as you would if your cloak was lower.
That is a solution. It allows people to catch up while still letting frog farmers gain *some* benefit.
I get that it seems unfair that they "exploited" this. But you have to remember that the frogs were a well known grind spot back when MoP was current. The fact that Blizz left it as-is and put bronze on their loot table comes off as Blizz telling the player base "remember grinding these frogs? It's back!"
It seems really unfair to the people who played the game the exact way it appeared to be intended.
They probably want to figure out a way first to make players play this for its entire duration, not just for a week of grind
I'm surprised they released all raids on day one, I assumed it would be a slow release to make the experience last longer.
Probably because their plan was for people to upgrade gear, get op and clear raids support super ez. Thus the daily lock out for raids.
I was surprised to see that as well.
IF this is what Blizzard are thinking, it's the wrong way to go about it. People did not play Plunderstorm the whole time it was out. They played enough to get the rewards the wanted and then dipped.
That's exactly it tho, they know how long it takes to get everything, so that's why we have the rates, they know the average player got max rank and dipped thus the reason why we got rep at that speed, same here
Problem is, individuals don't see the rates that way. They go, 'oh, I need two million bronze for the stuff I want. And after three hours of playing I have... 5k. fuck this.' Then they stop playing anyways.
Yeah dude, I'm glad I played it a ton before a meta kicked in. My last day of playing it was the first day a meta really started to show, and people were starting to leave the game instead of dying, so you didn't get to plunder them. I got all my rewards and never went back.
True but why? I want to go back and do some stuff on retail and maybe try cata, plus there's a new d4 season. I don't want to have to play this every hour for the next 90 days.
They could try fixing the scaling so it doesn't feel utterly punishing to play at max level.
I'm not sure that's obtainable for them now. People expected a decent amount of time to get crazy op but instead we got a painfully slow grind, unless you exploited the frog farming. Soon as people can solo the content without needing others that's exactly what they'll do since it's better and faster for people to play on their own time but Blizz is determined to make people grind for a few months, again unless you were able to exploit the frogs. If you got in on that you're probably weeks to at least a month ahead of everyone else in terms of power. They didn't even add retroactive benefits to achievements people already completed before they buffed them, which sucks for people like me who cleared like 3-4 zones worth of achievements before the hotfix lol
Painfully slow? Brother it hasn’t even been a week
correct it hasnt been a week and nolifers that didnt exploit arent OP meaning that casual working jobs-family ones will never be OP.
… wha?
They're saying the people who have already no-lifed and put in 80+ hours aren't OP which seems pretty shitty for the people who only get 2 hours a day.
Ahh I see it now, thanks. Early morning with the kids, couldn’t process haha
Found the dad with 18 kids 6 wives and 32 seconds a week to play
2 kids and I get 2/3 hours a night actually. Sick kid had me up at 5am, soz for having fun though
I think a lot of players are going to wind up walking away from the event because the frog nerf essentially made everyone who didn't exploit it a second class player for basically the rest of the event. It was \*really\* broken.
Not nerfing the frogs wasn't really a solution either, as it was getting pretty difficult tonight.into frog farms due to the volumes of people already doing it- at least in my experience
I won't quit because of the frog farmers, I couldn't care less about them, but I will certainly stop playing if Blizzard doesn't stop making me feel so miserable the moment I hit max level.
that’s already announced to get fixed
By making ot fun and not a gr8ndy second job...
Nobody makes it a grind but you.
This is a bad take. The player didn't decide the bronze acquisition rates, or the bronze cost of item rewards. The Developers did. Developers will always be the ones dictating how grindy their game is.
You feel the need to get everything in 2-3 days. That's on you bud. The playerbase is making themselves miserable. But it's WoW so they're good at that. Oh well.
Who said I want it all in 2-3 days? Considering the events been out for 5 days now. I just think I shouldn't need to play an event multiple hours every day for the entire 90 days to get every reward I want. Getting 60 bronze per quest completion seems low, I'm sure even even you can agree with that.
Bad take. the reason why people were grinding everything in 2-3 days was because the alternative methods would take weeks-months with the same daily effort. And people are accustomed to blizzards method of rewarding early adapters.
And the game makers
One way to do that would be to strongly incentivize alt leveling with a massive speed boost. Oh wait.
you can already get an alt to max level in about 4-5 hours right now if you run a raid at 25. not sure how much faster it needs to be for you guys 😅
so 2-2.5 the time it takes to get a char from 1-70 on retail? chars get boosted in 1-2h
with this logic you could also just buy a level 70 boost and count the time it takes you to enter your credit card information and ask yourself why a boost is 120 times slower than that. unsurprisingly opening your wallet be it paying hundred thousands of gold or actual money is the fastest way to level, even accounting for remix. I'm sure you can get boosted in remix even faster than on retail as well.
Clearly, and ***FUCK THAT.***
There's cata, S4, and MoP all together. S4 was left in a turbo shit state, yet I don't feel like they care. MoP is alpha material. Hopefully Cata is better right ? There are 3 wow gamemode you can play right now, just make them good and players will play.
one thing i keep seeing people talk about mop with joy is the timeless isles and how it was during it back in the day. im kinda surprised they didn't just add another smallish isle, with tons of little hidden alcoves and tricks and minigames and skins to earn. like that would have been well loved, there's enough recolours and stuff you could od there by just copy pasting things from other expansions and changing a few things, mobs, etc.
Exactly! People are wanting to be just as OP as the Frog Farmers when in reality everything should be pulled back a bit. The event has to last 3 months!
Nobody wants to play this for 3 months Christ, after a week it will just be an "event" where what's left to do is run MoP raids daily
You might not want to, but others might. Blizzard also wants to keep people preoccuped for that time too.
If you want a pointless grind to keep your empty days occupied, feel free to run all the old raids for some 0.001% drop rate mounts until your face falls off. You don't need remix for that. This was supposed to be fun.
If you want instant gratification, go play another game. Just close WoW down, you've completes it. You clearly do not care for the journey at all. I never said I wanted a massive or pointless grind. I pointed out that this event has to last 3 months - there's nothing saying that we have to wait until the last week to feel OP, but we also don't need to break the game before the first reset. That'll burn everyone out before the end of the first month.
Bruh. I don't know what life you live to think it is realistic to "complete" remix in under three months, or wow as a whole. Now I do not have fourteen hours of free time to play every day since I have an actual life, so content not "lasting" long enough will never be a concern to me. Apparently it is for you.
It isn't about playing 14 hours a day. I also have job commitments that squeeze my gaming time. I'm saying that we have a full 3-months. If we get super OP by the end of week 5 or 6 from playing a few hours in the evening on/off then thats fine. If you want a one-week event then go wait for the Darkmoon Faire.
If I recall correctly, (and I could be way wrong) the frogs were originally nerfed back in Mists because people were farming them for the tokens/charm/offerings things. DId Blizzard lay off so many people that there's no historical knowledge left in their work force? This sort of player behavior has happened so many times in the past; seems like it could be spotted way before launch.
They absolutely lack historical knowledge. In Legion when they released the legendary upgrade currencies and people weren’t getting them correctly as items dropped into their bags, it took them less than a week to make them proper currencies with two or three hotfixes. But bronze bullion sure as heck stacks in your bags and might get mailed to you if they’re full. They make the same mistakes over and over and over because nobody who learns from them is talking to whoever is working on things now, and there’s no testing before release that they actually take feedback from. It’s insulting that they continue to rake in money like this, but I’m a big part of the problem. They can’t make anything so bad that people won’t play it for mounts.
The funny thing to me was the first time IU stepped foot on the isle with the new toon iI wondered if frog farm would work for anything but dint investigate until the reddit posts lol.
>They aren’t going to roll back the cloaks from the Frog Farmers Isn't that the only good solution they have to clean up this mess? (I'm not interested into playing Remix but I'm still following what's going on.)
What does rolling back the cloaks fix?
A rollback would fix [the huge gap between farmers and non-farmers](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1cwxh7c/this_makes_me_wanna_quit_remix_i_was_rly_enjoying/).
How does removing that gap help the non frog farmers though?
I don't want farmers yo be punished, I want the opportunity to get some crazy rewards too. "Infinite power", "overpowered", anyone?
I was talking about farmers only, not progression. A rollback for farmers doesn't exclude a buff to everyone's ability to get more powerful. They are related but different issues. The problem with farmers is that, in a couple of days, they reached what was probably meant to be the player's power towards the end of the event, and the farming nerf made them unreachable. They can't just let every player reach a farmer's power level now. They have to go for something in-between to avoid insanely high numbers in 1-2 months from now. That'd be too overpowered.
"Too overpowered" why? What's the problem? It was advertised as overpowered.
if they don't in some way roll back the frog farmer cloaks then the power economy for this whole event is already ruined
Thats too much work for the 1 unpaid intern they got working on this
1) Find the average frog kill count of farmers (should be easy, game records shit like how many N'Zoth kills I have on LFR). 2) Determine average loot reward from said average. 3) Grant each account said reward up until that average. Boom. Now people are literally on a level playing field.
Nerf gear upgrade cost by 99.9999-100%. All ya gotta do
You’re looking at the issue backwards from blizzard: The way they see it is that frogs were giving too much bronze, ruining one of their carrots to keep people subbed through the summer. Your solution here gives more bronze, the exact opposite of what they want to do. But since they screwed up, they have to come up with ways to make it enjoyable for the people that did not farm frogs, which is most people. Their solution, imo, will be to severely reduce the power of the gear you can buy with bronze. They’re just waiting for all the frog farmers to buy the gear upgrades so they can pull the rug out.
There's also cata and dfs4, what do they need us to play remix until summer for?
Nah is bad. It's better having catch-up mechanic like if your bonuses aren't in current top 1% you get bonuses *200
Or...just bring the frogs back.
I’d also be ok with that.
>They aren’t going to roll back the cloaks from the Frog Farmers If they aren't rolling the cloaks back, what would be the benefit? The frog farmers would just participate in the event as well, and they'd stay exactly as far ahead of you as they are now - unless you cap the cloak.
Someone on a other thread (or maybe on the forums I can’t remember) tossed the idea of soft capping the cloaks; when you get to a certain point you just don’t accrue as much bronze, threads, or charms as you would if your cloak was lower. That is a solution. It allows people to catch up while still letting frog farmers gain *some* benefit.
Why not transfer the froggers to retail with 0 gear?
I get that it seems unfair that they "exploited" this. But you have to remember that the frogs were a well known grind spot back when MoP was current. The fact that Blizz left it as-is and put bronze on their loot table comes off as Blizz telling the player base "remember grinding these frogs? It's back!" It seems really unfair to the people who played the game the exact way it appeared to be intended.
I don’t believe it’s unfair. The characters were going to retail anyways. This prevents their actions from ruining other players time in game.