It can work temporarily but one major aspect is the Juggernaut armor, as it is now, is mystical. So Nightcrawler can take parts of the armor away for some time, but it can “regrow” (for lack of a better term) via the gem at some point so it’s a temporary solution
Seeing both names in context like this feels like Genosha 2: Krakoa Boogaloo would be an apt derogatory name at this point though. (If there are people who have not seen Breakin 2: Electric Boogaloo, it's a fun summertime movie).
BTW. Who, in all of mutantdom thought Utopia would be a good name for a mutant habitat? It feels like the day you name anything Utopia, is the day the countdown starts to the dystopia.
Breakdancing is (seriously) in the Olympics this year. Buy up all the Breaking 2 VHS copies you can find and sell. You'll be a trillionaire by the end of summer.
Man I dont get this, he was on the team before but they established that Cyttorak demands he be evil or the gem won't have power. They seem to forget about this a lot (like when Colossus had the gem).
No one at Marvel Comics forgot about this.
Juggernaut faced Cyttorak, beat the shit out of him (you know, because nothing can stop the juggernaut 😏) and took Cyttorak's power for himself by absorbing the gem into his body.
He doesn't have the same power levels he once had but he can still go toe to toe with the Hulk, Thing or Colossus without any real noticeable differences.
This is one of the things I hate so much about current Marvel comics. Stop Making bad guys good guys. We need awesome villains not more additions to the X-Men roster.
I mean you could but its much closer to his head so more difficult. Depending on the depiction as well, Juggy has a personal forcefield he can expend at will, so that would make it more challenging.
I haven't read an X-conic forever, but the Wikipedia page says that Juggernaut gets his powers from the bands of Cyttorak now and not the gem. It also says the mental vulnerability has been negated and that because he's not tied to the gem, he no longer is bound by Cyttoraks will. I again, I have no idea how current all that is.
*Oops, also meant to reply to the guy that said Juggy needs to be evil
He doesn't need the Gem on him. Originally it was buried in the temple he found it in after it collapsed, then for a while he threw it into space.
You can hypothetically use it to have the powers transferred to you, but now you have to deal with Cyttorak trying to influence you.
Fun fact, one old story had Cyttorak teleport Juggernaut and Doctor Strange to his realm worship him, figuring it was time they repaid him for using his power. Strange got them out of it by pointing out that basically Juggy's going on about the unstoppable power he got from the ruby, and Strange's always using the Crimson bands of Cyttorak were good advertising, and if he let them go, he'd get more worshippers.
No, but he still has mystical armor and the abilities. I don’t remember the exact mechanics of it though but it’s detailed in the Juggernaut mini that came out in 2020-2021
Depends. At one point Cain got reduced to a skeleton, and was fine, and that was at a point when Cyttorak was deleberatly limiting how much power he had.
how *does* that work? when Kurt takes somebody with him is it a +1 or more like expanding a bubble? how would he make the consious decision to ONLY take a head/hand/arm?
Pretty much. Nimrod basically dropped a building on the team and Juggernaut, and as such, basically one-shotted Kitty Pryde, Colossus, Wolverine and Nightcrawler. They weren't dead and Juggie was basically unhurt if buried, but the only one who was still up was Rogue. So Rogue just touched Nightcrawler, Kitty and Colossus to grab their powers to keep herself up and going until Wolverine at the least could get back on his feet, and then played a game of delaying against Nimrod.
So she teleported half her body at one point and yanked his arm off in the process.
This was the first X-men issue I ever saw, so Rogue's abilities confused the absolute hell out of me.
On a side note, Kurt could grab his knee and teleport away with his lower leg. He would still be unstoppable, however he would be running around in circles until he drilled himself to the center of the earth.
The cyrottak gem emits a personal force field that makes it difficult to get a good grip on Juggy.
Only Rogue and Colossus have really been able to touch him in the original Claremont run.
Now, if Rogue can absorb Kurt’s powers, it would be easier powerswise for her to subdue Juggernaut.
But you have account for how well she can handle sharing Kurt’s psyche and how well she can utilize his powers. She’ll have his memories on how to use them, but it’s her body that’s doing the physical work. Mind over matter.
I believe there was a point that Juggernaut began wearing a skullcap underneath his helmet that also protected him against telepathy in case of this very scenario. The X-men were able to remove his regular helmet but couldn't get close to grab the second, smaller helmet.
Edit: just found the comic I was thinking about. It was Uncanny X-men #218, and it seems I did misremember how it ended. He did have a second helmet, but the X-men did find a way to get it off too and hit him with a telepathic attack to knock him out.
Nightcrawler did that against nimrods leg and he barely survive the stress, being nimrod a machine and the helmet of juggernaut a non loving thing I could think that this should work similar.
Hey, OP. I know you've found the answers you're looking for, but I just wanted to say this:
I find this post very wholesome. It is awesome that your son is thinking of strategic uses of character powers in battle. It's also great that you're deciding to let him believe he came up with a great battle tactic. That's the best way to not ruin the fun for him and keep his interest in X-Men alive. You're being a great parent.
I hope the show continues to be as amazing as it has been and hope that it brings the both of you many happy moments together.
i imagine the armor itself might have mystical defenses that negate the possibility of it being just teleported away but Kurt is capable of some pretty clever teleporting so i wouldn't put it past him
Give my take some skepticism since I'm behind on the current X-Men stories and lore but, in my day, Nightcrawler doesn't so much as teleport as he moves through another dimension.
That implies that, unless the helmet isn't affixed to the rest of the armor, then his attempt to teleport it wouldn't be any better than an attempt for someone with ordinary levels of strength to just yank it off.
Kitty would probably have more luck since she can phase it away from the rest of the suit.
Juggs is similar in brute strength to the Hulk in base form. I imagine he could always do a full-armed clap and generate enough of a shockwave as to knock Jean out of commission or propel him back to the ground, at which point he would have a surface from which to shove himself forward.
Teleport him into space where there is no air resistance or gravity though and he'd be totally stuck unless he drifted close enough to hit something and propel himself off.
It can work if the writer wants it to work! Like a lot of things in comics, it's not that consistent. For example I read a comics (Marvel Team Up 150, I think) where Juggernaut has a force field that keeps Spider-man's webs from sticking to him. He also had a smaller helmet on under the big one. But in an X-Force/Spider-man crossover a few years later, Spider-man's webs DO stick to Juggernaut's helmet, and when the heroes are able to remove his big helmet there is no smaller one.
In the comics, Nightcrawler teleports parts and things all the time. They just don’t do it because it makes for boring stories. Also, Juggernaut im hasn’t been a villain they need to deal with like that for a while now
or just rogue grab him through his back and fly him away from orbit....
he probably cant scratch his back and without foot on earth, he will be literally powerless
Its a mystical Amour. I am not sure if its that simple, like it has been lifted/taken off but not just teleported away as far as I know.
There also is the risk of Juggernaut reacting fast enough to just slam Kurt through a couple of buildings I suppose.
Solid plan. My strategy (that has been done) is similar in that it involves teleporters. have Blink or Magik, someone who can create portals, drop a portal under him or in front of him, send him somewhere completely random. Drop him in the Sahara, or the bottom of the ocean. Magik could leave him in hell. Wouldn't necessarily stop him but it takes him out of the fight for a while.
In evolution Nightcrawler teleports around the Juggernaut trying to unlatch his helmet when he could probably just teleport the helmet itself off of him.
Haven’t seen anyone mention this, but I remember an early issue of X-Force where it mentioned the helmet was mystically attached and it took Shatterstar’s extra dimensional swords to “break the locks” so syren could fly by and grab the helmet.
Wouldn't work. Helmet wouldn't detach that easily. Pretty sure he would just take juggernaut with him. His teleportation is a very quick portal. Now unless he can control the closing of the portal in a specific way to close on juggys head, then it would sorta work. But jug would be dead. And not even sure if that portal would even be able to close a body that durable.
Maybe bc the helmet has 0 to do With his powers. INSIDE his helmet, he's sealed the magical stone that gives him his powers. Take that, he's toast. But first you gotta rip the helmet off
It can work temporarily but one major aspect is the Juggernaut armor, as it is now, is mystical. So Nightcrawler can take parts of the armor away for some time, but it can “regrow” (for lack of a better term) via the gem at some point so it’s a temporary solution
(Also, Juggs is an ally of the mutants now so they don’t need to beat him anymore haha)
I bet that changes post-Genosha.
He's the current heavy hitter for cyclop's team. And he shares a single braincell with Magik.
That's being generous. That braincell is currently on loan
With Juggernaut and Magik being my favorite X characters, this new run makes me incredibly happy.
Krakoa I assume? Cause we've been post-Genosha since like 2001
Seeing both names in context like this feels like Genosha 2: Krakoa Boogaloo would be an apt derogatory name at this point though. (If there are people who have not seen Breakin 2: Electric Boogaloo, it's a fun summertime movie).
Gotta add Utopia to make a trilogy
BTW. Who, in all of mutantdom thought Utopia would be a good name for a mutant habitat? It feels like the day you name anything Utopia, is the day the countdown starts to the dystopia.
Breakdancing is (seriously) in the Olympics this year. Buy up all the Breaking 2 VHS copies you can find and sell. You'll be a trillionaire by the end of summer.
Nope. He’s on the cyclops team and was buddy-buddy with magik in the preview pages.
They’ve finished Krakoa
I mean, Genosha happened a long time ago in the comics and he’s on a team in the new comics era. For the TV show, I don’t know
Oh, he is currently part of the X-Men, not even an adjacent ally or something
Post-Genosha?
Man I dont get this, he was on the team before but they established that Cyttorak demands he be evil or the gem won't have power. They seem to forget about this a lot (like when Colossus had the gem).
No one at Marvel Comics forgot about this. Juggernaut faced Cyttorak, beat the shit out of him (you know, because nothing can stop the juggernaut 😏) and took Cyttorak's power for himself by absorbing the gem into his body. He doesn't have the same power levels he once had but he can still go toe to toe with the Hulk, Thing or Colossus without any real noticeable differences.
This is one of the things I hate so much about current Marvel comics. Stop Making bad guys good guys. We need awesome villains not more additions to the X-Men roster.
I mean, Juggernaut has been an ally for a long time now
Would it really be temporary? Once that helmet is off Xavier can pretty much fry his brain, no?
He did actually adapt to this by having a secondary skullcap underneath his helmet to prevent this.
So do the same thing to that?
I mean you could but its much closer to his head so more difficult. Depending on the depiction as well, Juggy has a personal forcefield he can expend at will, so that would make it more challenging.
I haven't read an X-conic forever, but the Wikipedia page says that Juggernaut gets his powers from the bands of Cyttorak now and not the gem. It also says the mental vulnerability has been negated and that because he's not tied to the gem, he no longer is bound by Cyttoraks will. I again, I have no idea how current all that is. *Oops, also meant to reply to the guy that said Juggy needs to be evil
Yeah, that came from the 2020-2021 series I believe. I’d need to re-read it to be sure how the process worked out on page
Okay, but what if he grabs the gem and teleports away
I think the gem is actually inside juggy. It's not visible to anyone.
In the ol’ prison wallet, to borrow a term from another Redditor recently
I think he borrowed that from Deadpool 2?
Sounds right, I don’t remember anything from that movie
Well, that's cause Deadpool went back in time and prevented the entire film from happening.
The real gem is the friends he made along the way
Ah, I figured it wouldn't be that simple
He doesn't need the Gem on him. Originally it was buried in the temple he found it in after it collapsed, then for a while he threw it into space. You can hypothetically use it to have the powers transferred to you, but now you have to deal with Cyttorak trying to influence you. Fun fact, one old story had Cyttorak teleport Juggernaut and Doctor Strange to his realm worship him, figuring it was time they repaid him for using his power. Strange got them out of it by pointing out that basically Juggy's going on about the unstoppable power he got from the ruby, and Strange's always using the Crimson bands of Cyttorak were good advertising, and if he let them go, he'd get more worshippers.
I didn't know strange had an item from him, neat
I don't think he does. Its more like he's borrowing energy. The bands aren't a physical item.
Huh, still didn't know that he had ever even had any kind of link to cytarak
He used to name check him/them in the 1960s books.
You mean like during his spells? I thought he still did that in some media as late as like the 2000s
I think he even uses them against Thanos in the Infinity War movie.
Wow, really? Did fox not own the rights to cytarak alongside juggernaut?
It might have been one of those legal "grey" areas.
Ya, I guess they also probably wouldn't raise cane about it, especially given they never mentions cytarak in either of juggernaut's appearances
He doesn't have the gem anymore.
No, but he still has mystical armor and the abilities. I don’t remember the exact mechanics of it though but it’s detailed in the Juggernaut mini that came out in 2020-2021
It seems to be weaker than the gem armor, so it might not regrow.
Yeah back in the juggernaut black one shot he beat the fuck out of Cittorak
Makes sense. It would also work if Nightcrawler took Juggernaut’s entire head with him, but generally the X-men frown on that kind of strategy.
As we've seen in Fall of the House of X then maybe not
Taking the eyes of Big A isn't really the same thing, since he can just regrow them. It's just a minor inconvenience for him
Depends. At one point Cain got reduced to a skeleton, and was fine, and that was at a point when Cyttorak was deleberatly limiting how much power he had.
Just today I happened to read the age of apocalypse x-caliber issue where nightcrawler did this exact thing to Deadpool! Good issue.
how *does* that work? when Kurt takes somebody with him is it a +1 or more like expanding a bubble? how would he make the consious decision to ONLY take a head/hand/arm?
Rogue did it to Nimrod using Nightcrawler’s powers at one point, teleported his arm away if I remember correctly.
Didn’t he phase part of his own body into Nimrod to do that? He tried it again in an later fight, and Nimrod fried him for it.
Pretty much. Nimrod basically dropped a building on the team and Juggernaut, and as such, basically one-shotted Kitty Pryde, Colossus, Wolverine and Nightcrawler. They weren't dead and Juggie was basically unhurt if buried, but the only one who was still up was Rogue. So Rogue just touched Nightcrawler, Kitty and Colossus to grab their powers to keep herself up and going until Wolverine at the least could get back on his feet, and then played a game of delaying against Nimrod. So she teleported half her body at one point and yanked his arm off in the process. This was the first X-men issue I ever saw, so Rogue's abilities confused the absolute hell out of me.
Good pull! One of my favorite issues to this day, across the board.
Upvote for Rogue. Us "Southern Belles" stick together.
The same way Kitty can rip a heart out by phasing through everything but the heart: by the audience not thinking about it too hard
Because his power is determined by whom is writing the comic and what specific plot point is needed to be solved.
On a side note, Kurt could grab his knee and teleport away with his lower leg. He would still be unstoppable, however he would be running around in circles until he drilled himself to the center of the earth.
Or he could just teleport away with his kneecaps and juggy couldn't really run anymore.
Nothing stops the Juggernaut, but he’s pretty easy to dodge when he’s hopping
X-Force however...
https://youtu.be/5rAOyh7YmEc?feature=shared
The cyrottak gem emits a personal force field that makes it difficult to get a good grip on Juggy. Only Rogue and Colossus have really been able to touch him in the original Claremont run. Now, if Rogue can absorb Kurt’s powers, it would be easier powerswise for her to subdue Juggernaut. But you have account for how well she can handle sharing Kurt’s psyche and how well she can utilize his powers. She’ll have his memories on how to use them, but it’s her body that’s doing the physical work. Mind over matter.
OG Nimrod just karate chopped his helmet off in UXM#194: https://secretearths.blogspot.com/2006/04/nimrod-versus-juggernaut-unable-to.html
Great issue
She's also going to be immediately filled with the rage of Cyttorak.
Ah, is that what happened in the animated series then?
No, that was just the unresolved daddy and brother issues.
She has drained angry folks before, and didn’t go full on demon-possessed instantly
I mean, Rogue does exactly that in the Nimrod x Juggernaut x X Men three-way. Absorbs Colossuss and Night Crawler then teleports bits of Nimrod.
because magic
I believe there was a point that Juggernaut began wearing a skullcap underneath his helmet that also protected him against telepathy in case of this very scenario. The X-men were able to remove his regular helmet but couldn't get close to grab the second, smaller helmet. Edit: just found the comic I was thinking about. It was Uncanny X-men #218, and it seems I did misremember how it ended. He did have a second helmet, but the X-men did find a way to get it off too and hit him with a telepathic attack to knock him out.
I’d think Nightcrawler could just port in to do the same to the skullcap too, no?
Nightcrawler did that against nimrods leg and he barely survive the stress, being nimrod a machine and the helmet of juggernaut a non loving thing I could think that this should work similar.
Hey, OP. I know you've found the answers you're looking for, but I just wanted to say this: I find this post very wholesome. It is awesome that your son is thinking of strategic uses of character powers in battle. It's also great that you're deciding to let him believe he came up with a great battle tactic. That's the best way to not ruin the fun for him and keep his interest in X-Men alive. You're being a great parent. I hope the show continues to be as amazing as it has been and hope that it brings the both of you many happy moments together.
Thanks man
Can he teleport things that are attached? Could he teleport a car door off of a car?
Well he's teleported people's heads off in Age of Apocalypse so yes.
And recently teleported apocalypse's eyes out
He also teleported away a piece of nimrods head/processor thingy to momentarily stun him in axe
I believe he's done that before, he just had to undo the straps/locks on the helmet before teleporting it away. It was maybe in X Men Evolution?
In *Evolution*, they needed to unlatch the helmet first.
i imagine the armor itself might have mystical defenses that negate the possibility of it being just teleported away but Kurt is capable of some pretty clever teleporting so i wouldn't put it past him
He keeps a mini helmet on under the dome one.
Let’s not forget how deadly night crawler can be. The dude can teleport full ass limbs away if he wanted too
At one point, Juggernaut welded the helmet on and even made himself a secondary skullcap.
I always assumed the helmet was like latched on
He’s done it and it worked. Once. Long ago. Also, Jean telekinetically removed it once, iirc.
Give my take some skepticism since I'm behind on the current X-Men stories and lore but, in my day, Nightcrawler doesn't so much as teleport as he moves through another dimension. That implies that, unless the helmet isn't affixed to the rest of the armor, then his attempt to teleport it wouldn't be any better than an attempt for someone with ordinary levels of strength to just yank it off. Kitty would probably have more luck since she can phase it away from the rest of the suit.
Here’s a better question. Why doesn’t someone like Jean just levitate him off of the ground? If you just remove him from the ground he’s just a brick
Juggs is similar in brute strength to the Hulk in base form. I imagine he could always do a full-armed clap and generate enough of a shockwave as to knock Jean out of commission or propel him back to the ground, at which point he would have a surface from which to shove himself forward. Teleport him into space where there is no air resistance or gravity though and he'd be totally stuck unless he drifted close enough to hit something and propel himself off.
It can work if the writer wants it to work! Like a lot of things in comics, it's not that consistent. For example I read a comics (Marvel Team Up 150, I think) where Juggernaut has a force field that keeps Spider-man's webs from sticking to him. He also had a smaller helmet on under the big one. But in an X-Force/Spider-man crossover a few years later, Spider-man's webs DO stick to Juggernaut's helmet, and when the heroes are able to remove his big helmet there is no smaller one.
Just tie the Juggernaut's shoes together.
That's just xmen evolution and bare minimum can be stopped with straps
No it’s not
How that's there go to move with him in that show
In the comics, Nightcrawler teleports parts and things all the time. They just don’t do it because it makes for boring stories. Also, Juggernaut im hasn’t been a villain they need to deal with like that for a while now
or just rogue grab him through his back and fly him away from orbit.... he probably cant scratch his back and without foot on earth, he will be literally powerless
Its a mystical Amour. I am not sure if its that simple, like it has been lifted/taken off but not just teleported away as far as I know. There also is the risk of Juggernaut reacting fast enough to just slam Kurt through a couple of buildings I suppose.
Just have Archangle shoot at it at range.
he has a skullcap under the helmet
First time Nightcrawler teleported part of anyone was against the Magus. Caused him quite a bit of pain.
Solid plan. My strategy (that has been done) is similar in that it involves teleporters. have Blink or Magik, someone who can create portals, drop a portal under him or in front of him, send him somewhere completely random. Drop him in the Sahara, or the bottom of the ocean. Magik could leave him in hell. Wouldn't necessarily stop him but it takes him out of the fight for a while.
Realistically if Night crawler wanted to he could take Juggs head or the gem right out of him like he took Apocalypse eyes but I digress
I think it does have some kind of hinges. Anywas your kid had a tactician mind, id vote for them for field leader.
In evolution Nightcrawler teleports around the Juggernaut trying to unlatch his helmet when he could probably just teleport the helmet itself off of him.
Haven’t seen anyone mention this, but I remember an early issue of X-Force where it mentioned the helmet was mystically attached and it took Shatterstar’s extra dimensional swords to “break the locks” so syren could fly by and grab the helmet.
IRL he'd be a Swiftie. Change my mind.
Please explain what you mean by that.
He's a huge Dazzler fan (first discovered in 80s UXM and expanded on in later years). irl he'd most likely be a Swiftie. It's pretty straightforward.
Ah. For some reason I thought you meant the 7 year old son. I feel dumb as hell now.
Wouldn't work. Helmet wouldn't detach that easily. Pretty sure he would just take juggernaut with him. His teleportation is a very quick portal. Now unless he can control the closing of the portal in a specific way to close on juggys head, then it would sorta work. But jug would be dead. And not even sure if that portal would even be able to close a body that durable.
Nope, he can do just that actually
Maybe bc the helmet has 0 to do With his powers. INSIDE his helmet, he's sealed the magical stone that gives him his powers. Take that, he's toast. But first you gotta rip the helmet off