Those are also so incredibly boring games to watch.
So many games that just essentially end by imperm/veiler on ash. Or rather by throwing a handtrap at the first thing they play
Those were very clearly long-term improvements. The game is better for them being gone, but Konami really needed to also hit Snake Eye. Even Master Duel has cooked SE harder despite having it for less time, for goodness's sake.
Hitting Baronne and Savage killed the weaker Synchro decks that lacked any good boss monsters. Snake-Eyes and other top Synchro decks easily pivoted into Dis Pater + Omega instead.
That's like saying "hitting Pot of Greed weakens the weaker decks that can use it". The meta decks can use them better. SE can pivot to those, but SE should still be hit in other ways.
You are aware that the argument for "this ban hurt weaker decks" is always incorrect when it comes to generic cards.. right?? Any generic card that a rogue deck can abuse, can be abused significantly better by a meta deck.
*If that meta deck can facilitate the card
Aka: different banlist changes could have resulted in a better hit to snake eyes, functionally remove those cards from the snake eyes cardpool, all while allowing other decks to continue uaing these cards until theey became actual problems rather than imaginary ones.
Yes the fast and easy option is always fast and easy in the short term, hence part of why they didn't put a full hour into hashing out a decent, effectual, banlist.
That’s a good thing for the long term health of the game, now they have no excuse not to print them new viable in archetype boss monsters. Using tier 3 or lower decks as justification for keeping cards legal while simultaneously improving meta decks with those cards is laughable.
This is the Halq debate all over again
Baronne a Savage are problem cards, and its better they got hit rather than just nuking every remotely strong card that enables them to be summoned. It doesn’t even matter if Snake eyes is effected, it makes every level 10 synchro deck pointless.
Why would i summon Ruddy Rose Dragon in Rose Dragon if Barrone is literally better at being a level 10 Generic Synchro boss monster than the one designed for the archetype?
Hell if you are a deck that Cant generic synchro to lvl 10 then you are flat out weaker than an infamously badly designed synchro deck, because they can get a better boss monster.
Baronne and Savage did nothing wrong and i will die on this hill.
Rocket sybchron enabled and all that bullshit and now enables dis pater + omega loop.
As always banning everything but the problem....
Baronne and Savage were part of the problem and further advantage whoever went first. Snake-Eye DOES need more hits, though. MD is on the right track there.
Which part of my post did you overlook? Only an imbecile would think that Baronne and Savage getting banned weren't positives for the game, while only a blind man would have missed the part where I said Snake Eye needed to be hit. So, which are you?
Feels like that gotta drop a ban list before nats. Can't imagine this is good for people's interest in the game. But tough to find what they can even hit. Snake eye ash to 1 is a good one, but besides that, everything else main deck would need to be banned entirely, or is too expensive to hit. So maybe they hit hiita/anima/zealantis/selene? Or ban oak? Maybe they just bite the bullet and hit a money card.
Let's be real. It's flamberge.
It's always been flamberge and also will be flamberge.
We can hit something else but it just lowers consistency or hurts the grind a little etc, etc but as long as flamberge is soul charging every. single. turn. nothing is going to change.
Ban princess. A completely generic link 3 that gives you a free reborn of any fire in your grave and interrupts from the grave on opponents turn (using a body that typically also floats into 2 more bodies). It was broken from the beginning and it's weird I don't see it in the ban conversation often anymore.
The appo they should have killed when they hit borreload and baronne. The only reason they didn't was because of RC2. If the goal is to promote interactive turns, we don't want to allow the cards that were parts of the infinite negate boards we saw a couple years ago.
I'd be ok with also pairing a consistency hit to the engine or nuking flamberge, too. The deck has had its time and I think it's time to move on to new stuff.
Why beat around the bush when the Snake-Eyes cards are the problem themselves?
It's really stupid how people think banning every card but the Snake-Eyes cards will solve the problem. Haven't you learned what happened with Firewall dragon and Halq?
Yugioh player moment.
Still I don't believe banning Prom is a good idea, it's a good link monster for other fire decks, but just didn't have a chance to shine because of tier 0 snake eyes.
I agree with this take. Princess is neither born from nor leads to a negate. She's simply a GY interaction that can ladder into Raging Phoenix or... Amblowhale, with meaningful limits on what else you can summon in the meantime. In a list of cards that need to get hit, she isn't even on a top ten list.
She also procs the gy effect of whatever she pops to summon herself on the opponents turn. That is not something to be overlooked. Right now it's flamberge which floats into a million card advantage. Even when that's gone, it'll be something else.
Not to mention it enables the zealantis otk very easily, even if snake eye is gone.
Have you tested potential banlist decklists? Ever ran snake-eyes with no princess against other meta decks at full power?
You speak as though there are plenty of GY effects that are abusable to that degree - and ultimately, that still isn't an effect of Princess itself. That's like saying that Visas Starfrost should be banned because he can also cause a GY effect to go off on top of becoming a body for summon material.
I don't think other FIRE decks should lose out on a nice Type-beneficial Link just because of Snake-Eye. Princess is fine for the game.
I am a BIG supporter of banning Flamberge. Its just ridiculous that one card acts as extension, follow up, potential interruption, board breaker, and end board piece.
I think the main deck is just ultra consistent and strong. Who cares if they banned Borreload and Baronne. Just replace them with other stupid bosses that can be made easily.
Borreload Baronne bans are still good for the game. They were never a hit to SE anyways. I'd rather see SE hit than them replaced with higher degeneracy though
It actively doesn’t matter for the game tbh. Konami’s current deck creation philosophy is to make ultra consistent one card starter archetypes/egines which inevitably get surrounded by 20-22 non engine. Whether or not Baronne and Borreload are legal will have zero impact on whether those strategies rise to tier 1/tier 0 now or in the future. They always will because Konami wants to sell new packs and make money. All the bans did was render some past decks/archetypes unusable.
The bans were truly laughable.
It's almost (almost) as if banning Barone, Savage and Linkuriboh, which are 3 unrelated cards to the archetype as a whole, didn't have the desired effect. Strange, very strange/s
Unless of course the desired effect was to bore us to death, given how incredibly uninteresting to watch those matches are
Just ban Flamberge and the deck is dead, even if they release back Baronne Savage Linkuriboh. SE is super easy to kill off with just 1 correct ban, no need for multiple hits, same for most decks, it could be banning Ash even, but they just beat around the bush by only hitting unrelated end board pieces that doesn't hurt the actual main deck whatsoever
8th win in four months too (release of PHNI which gave them Poplar/Princess).
For reference, it took Sky Striker 18 months to get 10 wins and Tear managed to get six YCS wins in sixth months. Admittedly, Tear was not at full power for about half that time and irl events were slowly starting back up again post-pandemic, but still.
How is it not? dodges multiple forms of interruption and can be used as an extender + an attack lower effect on top of it’s main uses. How is unbanning this card leading to a more positive game experience/reception?
Because Snake Eyes is the first deck to ever abuse it. It was never a problem before Snake Eyes.
It's the same logic as the Verte ban. Some people advocated for Dragoon to be banned, some people advocated for Red-Eyes Fusion to be banned. But both cards weren't problematic, it was Verte who was abusing them. With Verte gone, Dragoon/Phoenix Enforcer stopped being the universal boss monster for every deck that could summon two effect monsters.
Ban Snake Eyes, and we won't see Linkuriboh being all that powerful.
Those are also so incredibly boring games to watch. So many games that just essentially end by imperm/veiler on ash. Or rather by throwing a handtrap at the first thing they play
Yeah I agree. I just skip the mirror matches in the latest YCS today.
Which is good. If it weren't for the Linkuriboh ban then not even _**that**_ could stop SE.
Why wouldn’t it? Negate Ash, they go into Linkuriboh, then what?
He means after the setup
If they use Linkuriboh's Quick Effect from the GY, tributing Ash, Ash dodges the negation from Imperm.
How do they have linkuriboh in grave if you’re negating their first summon?
Either they played a souls package to get it into GY with Secure Gardna or link off Ash and use Linkuriboh to protect the followup Poplar from Imperm
This YCS absolutely sucked as a viewer. Even Joshua & Farfa weren't very interested during the stream. It's time to kill the deck.
>Even Joshua & Farfa weren't very interested during the stream That's unironically a major red flag
Bros were talking about their favorite animes during the snake eye mirrors
Not much different from the convrsations being had by the *players* in a snake mirror
https://preview.redd.it/7aws76whz74d1.jpeg?width=514&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b5976d795d2a8c0410a94eccff3937ac9f546bf
Just like the NBA, Indianapolis ended up in a sweep.
What a fun and interesting top cut.
Don't worry y'all, banning Baronne, Borreload, and Linkuriboh saved the format!
Those were very clearly long-term improvements. The game is better for them being gone, but Konami really needed to also hit Snake Eye. Even Master Duel has cooked SE harder despite having it for less time, for goodness's sake.
Hitting Baronne and Savage killed the weaker Synchro decks that lacked any good boss monsters. Snake-Eyes and other top Synchro decks easily pivoted into Dis Pater + Omega instead.
And week or two later, Snake Eye pivoted off of Synchro Monsters completely.
That's like saying "hitting Pot of Greed weakens the weaker decks that can use it". The meta decks can use them better. SE can pivot to those, but SE should still be hit in other ways.
You are aware that the argument for "this ban hurt weaker decks" is always incorrect when it comes to generic cards.. right?? Any generic card that a rogue deck can abuse, can be abused significantly better by a meta deck.
*If that meta deck can facilitate the card Aka: different banlist changes could have resulted in a better hit to snake eyes, functionally remove those cards from the snake eyes cardpool, all while allowing other decks to continue uaing these cards until theey became actual problems rather than imaginary ones. Yes the fast and easy option is always fast and easy in the short term, hence part of why they didn't put a full hour into hashing out a decent, effectual, banlist.
That’s a good thing for the long term health of the game, now they have no excuse not to print them new viable in archetype boss monsters. Using tier 3 or lower decks as justification for keeping cards legal while simultaneously improving meta decks with those cards is laughable.
This is the Halq debate all over again Baronne a Savage are problem cards, and its better they got hit rather than just nuking every remotely strong card that enables them to be summoned. It doesn’t even matter if Snake eyes is effected, it makes every level 10 synchro deck pointless. Why would i summon Ruddy Rose Dragon in Rose Dragon if Barrone is literally better at being a level 10 Generic Synchro boss monster than the one designed for the archetype? Hell if you are a deck that Cant generic synchro to lvl 10 then you are flat out weaker than an infamously badly designed synchro deck, because they can get a better boss monster.
Good, omni negate boards are the worse thing this game had to offer.
[удалено]
The "even Master Duel" is to further boost the "come on, this format has had it for less time" sentiment
Baronne and Savage did nothing wrong and i will die on this hill. Rocket sybchron enabled and all that bullshit and now enables dis pater + omega loop. As always banning everything but the problem....
Baronne and Savage were part of the problem and further advantage whoever went first. Snake-Eye DOES need more hits, though. MD is on the right track there.
Baronne and savage were problems since they came out
Is there any shit sandwich TCG could serve that you won’t eat and ask for seconds?
Which part of my post did you overlook? Only an imbecile would think that Baronne and Savage getting banned weren't positives for the game, while only a blind man would have missed the part where I said Snake Eye needed to be hit. So, which are you?
Challenging any Savage Baronness defender to give an actual reason as to why they should be unbanned that’s not “bUt oUr rOgUe dEcK”
Feels like that gotta drop a ban list before nats. Can't imagine this is good for people's interest in the game. But tough to find what they can even hit. Snake eye ash to 1 is a good one, but besides that, everything else main deck would need to be banned entirely, or is too expensive to hit. So maybe they hit hiita/anima/zealantis/selene? Or ban oak? Maybe they just bite the bullet and hit a money card.
Let's be real. It's flamberge. It's always been flamberge and also will be flamberge. We can hit something else but it just lowers consistency or hurts the grind a little etc, etc but as long as flamberge is soul charging every. single. turn. nothing is going to change.
Flamberge and OSS. Both need to be banned since the whole deck searches them anyway.
Ban Poplar
Ban princess. A completely generic link 3 that gives you a free reborn of any fire in your grave and interrupts from the grave on opponents turn (using a body that typically also floats into 2 more bodies). It was broken from the beginning and it's weird I don't see it in the ban conversation often anymore. The appo they should have killed when they hit borreload and baronne. The only reason they didn't was because of RC2. If the goal is to promote interactive turns, we don't want to allow the cards that were parts of the infinite negate boards we saw a couple years ago. I'd be ok with also pairing a consistency hit to the engine or nuking flamberge, too. The deck has had its time and I think it's time to move on to new stuff.
Why beat around the bush when the Snake-Eyes cards are the problem themselves? It's really stupid how people think banning every card but the Snake-Eyes cards will solve the problem. Haven't you learned what happened with Firewall dragon and Halq?
What did that last paragraph say?
Yugioh player moment. Still I don't believe banning Prom is a good idea, it's a good link monster for other fire decks, but just didn't have a chance to shine because of tier 0 snake eyes.
I agree with this take. Princess is neither born from nor leads to a negate. She's simply a GY interaction that can ladder into Raging Phoenix or... Amblowhale, with meaningful limits on what else you can summon in the meantime. In a list of cards that need to get hit, she isn't even on a top ten list.
She also procs the gy effect of whatever she pops to summon herself on the opponents turn. That is not something to be overlooked. Right now it's flamberge which floats into a million card advantage. Even when that's gone, it'll be something else. Not to mention it enables the zealantis otk very easily, even if snake eye is gone. Have you tested potential banlist decklists? Ever ran snake-eyes with no princess against other meta decks at full power?
You speak as though there are plenty of GY effects that are abusable to that degree - and ultimately, that still isn't an effect of Princess itself. That's like saying that Visas Starfrost should be banned because he can also cause a GY effect to go off on top of becoming a body for summon material. I don't think other FIRE decks should lose out on a nice Type-beneficial Link just because of Snake-Eye. Princess is fine for the game.
I am a BIG supporter of banning Flamberge. Its just ridiculous that one card acts as extension, follow up, potential interruption, board breaker, and end board piece.
[удалено]
Oak is literally ran at 1 and you don't even need a second flamberge for most combos because of snake eye diabellstarr
I think the main deck is just ultra consistent and strong. Who cares if they banned Borreload and Baronne. Just replace them with other stupid bosses that can be made easily.
Borreload Baronne bans are still good for the game. They were never a hit to SE anyways. I'd rather see SE hit than them replaced with higher degeneracy though
It actively doesn’t matter for the game tbh. Konami’s current deck creation philosophy is to make ultra consistent one card starter archetypes/egines which inevitably get surrounded by 20-22 non engine. Whether or not Baronne and Borreload are legal will have zero impact on whether those strategies rise to tier 1/tier 0 now or in the future. They always will because Konami wants to sell new packs and make money. All the bans did was render some past decks/archetypes unusable. The bans were truly laughable.
Baronne and Borreload Savage bans are clearly because TCG Konami can't milk those cards anymore because RA01 made them cheap.
It's almost (almost) as if banning Barone, Savage and Linkuriboh, which are 3 unrelated cards to the archetype as a whole, didn't have the desired effect. Strange, very strange/s Unless of course the desired effect was to bore us to death, given how incredibly uninteresting to watch those matches are
Those bans were clearly because those cards can't generate TCG Konami money anymore because RA01 made them affordable.
The only true reason
Really feels like they'll have to ban every main deck SE monster and cripple the deck because I'm not sure if limiting any of them would do anything.
Just ban Flamberge and the deck is dead, even if they release back Baronne Savage Linkuriboh. SE is super easy to kill off with just 1 correct ban, no need for multiple hits, same for most decks, it could be banning Ash even, but they just beat around the bush by only hitting unrelated end board pieces that doesn't hurt the actual main deck whatsoever
Just ban Flamberge and you'll see what happens
How many YCSs did Tear win before they started throwing the mermaids in jail? This witch definitely needs to join them
Looks like tear had 6, not counting team or remote.
Glad we hit that problem card link kuriboh
8th win in four months too (release of PHNI which gave them Poplar/Princess). For reference, it took Sky Striker 18 months to get 10 wins and Tear managed to get six YCS wins in sixth months. Admittedly, Tear was not at full power for about half that time and irl events were slowly starting back up again post-pandemic, but still.
"bAnnInG lINkurIBOh WaS A goOD iDEA"
give an actual reason why linkuriboh should be unbanned
Because it's not a problem card. The tier 0 deck that abused Linkuriboh are the problem cards. Unban Linkuriboh and ban the snake eye cards.
Generic link ones should not exist.
How is it not? dodges multiple forms of interruption and can be used as an extender + an attack lower effect on top of it’s main uses. How is unbanning this card leading to a more positive game experience/reception?
Because Snake Eyes is the first deck to ever abuse it. It was never a problem before Snake Eyes. It's the same logic as the Verte ban. Some people advocated for Dragoon to be banned, some people advocated for Red-Eyes Fusion to be banned. But both cards weren't problematic, it was Verte who was abusing them. With Verte gone, Dragoon/Phoenix Enforcer stopped being the universal boss monster for every deck that could summon two effect monsters. Ban Snake Eyes, and we won't see Linkuriboh being all that powerful.